Bettis Helmet

[NEFAN]

http://cgi.ebay.com/PITTSBURGH-STEELERS-GAME-USED-WORN-HELMET-6X-CHAMPS_W0QQitemZ170329428994QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27a86cd402&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Quite a story with this one.

[Vikingshelmetguy]

I noticed this one too. I am not a Steelers fan or expert, and (besides the Vikings) I don't know all the subtle details of other teams helmets like Robert/Aeneas01 does, but it seems that a glaring omission from this helmet is the usual Steelers player ID numbers that are posted on the front or back of the helmet (depeding what year the Steelers helmet is). I think in most pictures I have seen of Bettis, his helmets always have white #36 number decals pasted onto the front of the helmet. This helmet lacks such player number decals... The game wear, mask and warning label look somewhat convincing, however.... I'd be intersted to find out what conclusions/input that Robert/Aeneas01 might have about this helmet.

[DrJ]

To my knowledge the Steelers wear numbers on the front and back during the regular season and only on the back during preseason (at least it was that way at one time, I haven't researched recently).

[helmets]

To my knowledge the Steelers wear numbers on the front and back during the regular season and only on the back during preseason (at least it was that way at one time, I haven't researched recently).
I don't think they wear the numbers during training camp, which would jive with the story.

I recall Bettis wearing a Riddell all-black chinstrap, but as I recall, it was with black padding and front snubber as well. With the white padding, I believe he wore an Adams pro 100 with a black cup and white straps.

Yes, I have heard some far-fetched stories on how people obtain helmets, and this one ranks right up there. A decent price if there would be a way to prove that it was a Bettis helmet, but if it isn't, you're out a grand for a beat up Pro Air II.

Pretty easy helmet to duplicate. For much less, one could obtain a beat up Pro Air II that looks identical to the one in the photos -with or without the 36's. The only thing you will have to do is make up the story...

[jobathenut]

I'm no helmet expert,but i am a lifetime steelers fan.And i can't ever recall bettis wearing a all black chin strap like that.People can check that getty site they always mention on here to see if there are any pictures of him wearing it.I'm not saying if it's authentic or if it isnt,but like "helmets" said-it's a great pick up if it is and if it isn't,well than you just bought a normal helmet way over the value of it.Problem is,there is no way to prove either way,all you can do is go by what you believe.And i also go by the sellers feedback also,and i email the seller and ask questions.:)

[jhunt28]

I've done some extensive Bettis helmet homework recently, because I was about to buy one. This was mentioned before, but Bettis never wore a chinstrap with a black cup and black straps (pretty sure colored straps are against the NFL uniform code). During the 1996-1997 seasons, Bettis did wear an Adams chinstrap with white straps and black cup a few times. And Bettis wore an Adams chinstrap all the way up until 2004, when he switched to Riddell. Bettis always wore a size large chinstrap with Riddell, which means the cup has 4 air vents in it. This chinstrap shown is a size medium (only 2 air vents in the cup), and can be picked up anywhere. Another giveaway is the placement of the upper chinstrap hookup in relation to the Steelers logo decal. The snap is positioned way too low...it should be at the height of the "blue star" on the decal. Shocked that something this bad could get a bid, let alone a few hundred dollars??

[jhunt28]

I need to revise what I wrote...I stand corrected. In Oct-Dec of 1998, Bettis did wear a black chinstrap with black cup to my surprise. Before October of that year he had white straps, and went back to white straps in 1999.

[jobathenut]

Really,i don't ever recall bettis wearing a totally black chin strap.I'll have to go back threw my steelers game tape libary threw those dates and look.I guess jhunt,you proved me wrong.And as far as people bidding on it,that's no surprise to me,some people just take people's word for something being authentic.:)
I need to revise what I wrote...I stand corrected. In Oct-Dec of 1998, Bettis did wear a black chinstrap with black cup to my surprise. Before October of that year he had white straps, and went back to white straps in 1999.

[Vikingshelmetguy]

Really,i don't ever recall bettis wearing a totally black chin strap.I'll have to go back threw my steelers game tape libary threw those dates and look.I guess jhunt,you proved me wrong.And as far as people bidding on it,that's no surprise to me,some people just take people's word for something being authentic.:)

Put a search for "Jerome Bettis 1998" into Getty Images and there are a load of photos of him from the 1998 season which show Bettis wearing a helmet with an all black chin strap and black chin guard. Attached are photos. It's starting to look like this Bettis helmet on Ebay just might be legit:

[Vikingshelmetguy]

Now that I look more closely, here is one difference between the helmet on Ebay and the Bettis photos I have posted. Notice the white helmet brand section on the front of the helmet on the Ebay helmet, while the photos of Bettis from 1998 do not have that white section. Not to say the Ebay helmet is not legit, but just pointing out that the Ebay helmet is not quite a photo match with photos of Bettis from 1998. Could be his helmet from another season, perhaps....

[jhunt28]

The reason I didn't go into much detail about the "black" helmet that he used from Oct-Dec 1998, is because that black helmet had black padding (black front bumper, black ear pads, black forehead padding). This helmet pictured has the white front bumper (like you pointed out), and white inside padding. I just don't think he would wear a helmet that was all black, then take out the black inside padding, black front bumper, take off the number decals, and just hand it to someone the following year at training camp. I guess nothing is impossible...I just have a hard time believing this story.

[Vikingshelmetguy]

The reason I didn't go into much detail about the "black" helmet that he used from Oct-Dec 1998, is because that black helmet had black padding (black front bumper, black ear pads, black forehead padding). This helmet pictured has the white front bumper (like you pointed out), and white inside padding. I just don't think he would wear a helmet that was all black, then take out the black inside padding, black front bumper, take off the number decals, and just hand it to someone the following year at training camp. I guess nothing is impossible...I just have a hard time believing this story.

Jhunt28, another great observation that you have noticed: the Oct-Dec 1998 photos of Bettis reveal all black padding on the inside, whereas the Ebay helmet has white padding on the inside and a white front bumper. The helmet on Ebay kind of looks a little small too, whereas it appears from photos of Bettis that he wore a pretty large size helmet (he is a big dude with a big head).... There seem to be a lot of red flags with this helmet being sold on Ebay (with the story on how it was acquired being almost too unbelievable to be true). I am watching with interest as there are currently already 9 bids and the price is getting close to $400, with a couple more days of auction time to go! Glad I am not a Steelers helmet collector. This helmet is confounding!

[jobathenut]

vikings-I don't go on that getty site so thanks for the pictures to prove me wrong.I emailed the seller and he was'nt sure what season he got it.He said he thought it was 1996 season,which would be his first season with the team.I just found it funny,cause if bettis were to give me his helmet,i would never,ever forget the day,the month,the year ,the time it was in the day that he gave it to me.:)
Put a search for "Jerome Bettis 1998" into Getty Images and there are a load of photos of him from the 1998 season which show Bettis wearing a helmet with an all black chin strap and black chin guard. Attached are photos. It's starting to look like this Bettis helmet on Ebay just might be legit:

[aeneas01]

someone emailed me about this helmet yesterday, not sure if he's a forum member, and i told him to ask the seller for the date code. i actually posed the question and told him that he could just copy/paste it and send it to the seller. apparently the seller got back to him with the date code but also wanted to know what it signified.

anyway, the helmet was manufactured in 2001, which doesn't seem to jive too well with his story. i haven't taken a close look at it but from what i saw it doesn't strike as an authentic bettis/steelers helmet, doesn't strike me as anything different than what tends to hit ebay. btw the guy that contacted me said that he never heard back from the seller after sending him this info even though he had asked additional questions....

....

[Vikingshelmetguy]

vikings-I don't go on that getty site so thanks for the pictures to prove me wrong.I emailed the seller and he was'nt sure what season he got it.He said he thought it was 1996 season,which would be his first season with the team.I just found it funny,cause if bettis were to give me his helmet,i would never,ever forget the day,the month,the year ,the time it was in the day that he gave it to me.:)

Hi Jobathenut, actually I was not intending to prove you wrong—sorry about that :o…. I was just trying to figure out whether any photos existed of Bettis wearing an all-black chinstrap in an effort to try and figure out whether the helmet for sale might possibly be Bettis’ helmet. You’ll notice that after I posted those photos, I quickly realized the Getty photos I posted do not match the helmet that is for sale on Ebay (I posted a photo of the Ebay helmet, and the differences were quickly apparent). Jobathenut, that’s a really great point you’ve made: Like you, if I were a Steelers fan and a player like Bettis just gave me his helmet right there, I’m pretty sure I’d remember (or never forget) what year/season I got it. I’m no expert, but after all the discussion and analysis of photos I’ve looked at, I suspect that this helmet on Ebay is probably not Bettis’ helmet (it could be an actual Steelers gamer worn by another player, but I don’t think it is/was Bettis’ helmet). Interestingly, I notice that one of the bidders cancelled their bid, and that the current auction price has now dropped significantly.

[helmets]

Ebay cancelled the bid. It was an "administrative cancellation"

[jobathenut]

hi there vikings-There's no need to apologize,i took no offense to it.It's not the first and won't be the last time i have been proven wrong.I thank you for posting those pictures and to show that he did indeed wear a all black chinstrap.I would've bet good money that he never did.Like i said,i emailed the seller and i was told that they think it was from the 1996 season and those pictures you posted were from the 1998 season.So i'd be interested in a 1996 search,to see what color chinstrap he wore that season,i have pictures i took of him in a game that season,but they are not good enough to see it.Thanks again vikings for the insight.:)
Hi Jobathenut, actually I was not intending to prove you wrong—sorry about that :o…. I was just trying to figure out whether any photos existed of Bettis wearing an all-black chinstrap in an effort to try and figure out whether the helmet for sale might possibly be Bettis’ helmet. You’ll notice that after I posted those photos, I quickly realized the Getty photos I posted do not match the helmet that is for sale on Ebay (I posted a photo of the Ebay helmet, and the differences were quickly apparent). Jobathenut, that’s a really great point you’ve made: Like you, if I were a Steelers fan and a player like Bettis just gave me his helmet right there, I’m pretty sure I’d remember (or never forget) what year/season I got it. I’m no expert, but after all the discussion and analysis of photos I’ve looked at, I suspect that this helmet on Ebay is probably not Bettis’ helmet (it could be an actual Steelers gamer worn by another player, but I don’t think it is/was Bettis’ helmet). Interestingly, I notice that one of the bidders cancelled their bid, and that the current auction price has now dropped significantly.

[jobathenut]

What does that mean?:confused:
Ebay cancelled the bid. It was an "administrative cancellation"

[otismalibu]

Doesn't that mean the seller canceled the bid?

[Vikingshelmetguy]

What does that mean?:confused:

I looked on Ebay and found out the definition of an administrative cancellation: "Administrative Cancellation" is the cancellation of a bid by eBay due to administrative reasons, such as when a bidder becomes unregistered.

[NEFAN]

Ebay cancelled the bid. It was an "administrative cancellation"

I'm showing it as still active.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170329428994

[helmets]

Yes, the helmet is still active. Ebay canceled one of the bids...

A couple observations on this helmet. The mask is the heavy - thick coated Armor-Guard. Bettis to my knowledge never wore an Armor-Guard mask. Most of the skilled players in the NFL during the 90's and through the last few years wore the thinner coated poly vinyl or Vinyl-Guard coating offered by Schutt. In addition, Riddell did not come out with their deep cup chinstrap until 2004 I believe, which is around the time that Bettis switched from an Adams Pro-100 chinstrap to the Riddell. What strikes me most is the postition of the side logo decal. The Steelers position this decal much lower than what is offered by Riddell in their Proline series as well as where most "decal slappers" postion the decal on the non-licensed "pirated" helmets that they produce and offer on ebay. When looking at the "Bettis" helmet offered, the side decal is postioned higher than what Bettis or the Steelers wore or currently wear. Here is some photos of the positioning of the logo decal. The decal is typically positioned so that the bottom edge is on the outside edge of the "ridge" of the ear hole on the Schutt helmets - as best seen in the 2005 closeup photo. You will notice both the 2001 and 2002 photos taken during the preseason do not show the numbers on the helmet.

[jobathenut]

thanks vikings:)
I looked on Ebay and found out the definition of an administrative cancellation: "Administrative Cancellation" is the cancellation of a bid by eBay due to administrative reasons, such as when a bidder becomes unregistered.

[jobathenut]

Great insight helmets,thanks...:)
Yes, the helmet is still active. Ebay canceled one of the bids...

A couple observations on this helmet. The mask is the heavy - thick coated Armor-Guard. Bettis to my knowledge never wore an Armor-Guard mask. Most of the skilled players in the NFL during the 90's and through the last few years wore the thinner coated poly vinyl or Vinyl-Guard coating offered by Schutt. In addition, Riddell did not come out with their deep cup chinstrap until 2004 I believe, which is around the time that Bettis switched from an Adams Pro-100 chinstrap to the Riddell. What strikes me most is the postition of the side logo decal. The Steelers position this decal much lower than what is offered by Riddell in their Proline series as well as where most "decal slappers" postion the decal on the non-licensed "pirated" helmets that they produce and offer on ebay. When looking at the "Bettis" helmet offered, the side decal is postioned higher than what Bettis or the Steelers wore or currently wear. Here is some photos of the positioning of the logo decal. The decal is typically positioned so that the bottom edge is on the outside edge of the "ridge" of the ear hole on the Schutt helmets - as best seen in the 2005 closeup photo. You will notice both the 2001 and 2002 photos taken during the preseason do not show the numbers on the helmet.

[hrvatwill]

Helmet has been relisted with an "interesting" explanation as to why.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PITTSBURGH-STEELERS-GAME-USED-WORN-HELMET-6X-CHAMPS_W0QQitemZ170331870926QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27a89216ce&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[aeneas01]

Helmet has been relisted with an "interesting" explanation as to why.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PITTSBURGH-STEELERS-GAME-USED-WORN-HELMET-6X-CHAMPS_W0QQitemZ170331870926QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27a89216ce&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

to ebay seller:

your helmet was manufactured in 2001 and most likely wouldn't have been ready for use until the 2002 season. as such you could not have received it in the mid '90s as your ebay states - could it be that you received it in the early 2000s?

from ebay seller:

as far as it being from the 2000's i'm not sure but i do have 2 steelers helmets so i must have gotten them mixed up some how ....well i guess i will end this auction early if it will let me now i think there has to be 12 hours remaining or you can't end it but thanks for straigtning this out for me i will relist it differently next time ....thanks again for your help !!!

[Vikingshelmetguy]

to ebay seller:

your helmet was manufactured in 2001 and most likely wouldn't have been ready for use until the 2002 season. as such you could not have received it in the mid '90s as your ebay states - could it be that you received it in the early 2000s?

from ebay seller:

as far as it being from the 2000's i'm not sure but i do have 2 steelers helmets so i must have gotten them mixed up some how ....well i guess i will end this auction early if it will let me now i think there has to be 12 hours remaining or you can't end it but thanks for straigtning this out for me i will relist it differently next time ....thanks again for your help !!!




I have to give the seller some credit. It was great of Robert/Aeneas01 to contact the Seller to tell him that it appears his helmet is not really Bettis' helmet. At that point, with 8 bids already placed totaling a nice amount of money, and with the auction having only 12 hours to go til its end, the seller could have easily blown off Robert/Aeneas01's e-mail, and he could have taken the money and ran. While I still think the revised story he has reposted on Ebay of how he got one helmet mixed up with another one in his collection is kind of hard to fathom, at least he called off the original auction and now has relisted it and presented the helmet as not necessarily being Jerome Bettis' helmet, but likely the helmet of some other player... One thing is for sure, this auction/helmet generated a lot of fun and interesting fodder and discussion for all of us NFL helmet-loving geeks here in the GUU game used discussion forum! Note to anyone who might misconstrue my reference to "NFL helmet-loving geeks", that is meant as a term of camaraderie/endearment, and is not meant to be a shot/criticism (I myself am an NFL helmet-loving geek)!

[helmets]

to ebay seller:

from ebay seller:

as far as it being from the 2000's i'm not sure but i do have 2 steelers helmets so i must have gotten them mixed up some how ....well i guess i will end this auction early if it will let me now i think there has to be 12 hours remaining or you can't end it but thanks for straigtning this out for me i will relist it differently next time ....thanks again for your help !!!



I have a "helmet-loving-geek" friend of mine. He would have two lines for this...

"mamma mia"
and
"good grief"

[jobathenut]

Sorry vikings,i have liked what you have said about this topic,but im not with you on giving any credit to this seller,as they have lost all credit with me.I hate to talk bad about anyone trying to sell thier items,but come on.Am i the only one not buying this now revised story?To me it does'nt matter if he ended the auction or would've just completed it.Because now i really question this.And as far as being fair about the bidders on it,they already bidded thinking it was indeed a bettis helmet.It's up to the buyer to know what they are buying,and if those who bidded thought what they were bidding on was authentic,then go ahead bid on it,and if turns out it was'nt bettis helmet,which the seller admits,well they got what they derserved.Know what you're buying.And to now say they had two helmets and got them confused,my question to them is,can i see pictures of the bettis helmet?Then i might believe thier story.And on a another note,if you confused the helmets,why would'nt you now list the bettis helmet.This whole thing now just is funny to me:)
I have to give the seller some credit. It was great of Robert/Aeneas01 to contact the Seller to tell him that it appears his helmet is not really Bettis' helmet. At that point, with 8 bids already placed totaling a nice amount of money, and with the auction having only 12 hours to go til its end, the seller could have easily blown off Robert/Aeneas01's e-mail, and he could have taken the money and ran. While I still think the revised story he has reposted on Ebay of how he got one helmet mixed up with another one in his collection is kind of hard to fathom, at least he called off the original auction and now has relisted it and presented the helmet as not necessarily being Jerome Bettis' helmet, but likely the helmet of some other player... One thing is for sure, this auction/helmet generated a lot of fun and interesting fodder and discussion for all of us NFL helmet-loving geeks here in the GUU game used discussion forum! Note to anyone who might misconstrue my reference to "NFL helmet-loving geeks", that is meant as a term of camaraderie/endearment, and is not meant to be a shot/criticism (I myself am an NFL helmet-loving geek)!

[aeneas01]

I have a "helmet-loving-geek" friend of mine. He would have two lines for this...

"mamma mia"
and
"good grief"


:p :p

have fun with jimbo - tilt one back for me!

...

[aeneas01]

btw my friend, did you ever locate that helmet bart starr gave you? i know you mentioned that you had another packers helmet and often got them mixed up...

...

[Vikingshelmetguy]

Sorry vikings,i have liked what you have said about this topic,but im not with you on giving any credit to this seller,as they have lost all credit with me.I hate to talk bad about anyone trying to sell thier items,but come on.Am i the only one not buying this now revised story?To me it does'nt matter if he ended the auction or would've just completed it.Because now i really question this.And as far as being fair about the bidders on it,they already bidded thinking it was indeed a bettis helmet.It's up to the buyer to know what they are buying,and if those who bidded thought what they were bidding on was authentic,then go ahead bid on it,and if turns out it was'nt bettis helmet,which the seller admits,well they got what they derserved.Know what you're buying.And to now say they had two helmets and got them confused,my question to them is,can i see pictures of the bettis helmet?Then i might believe thier story.And on a another note,if you confused the helmets,why would'nt you now list the bettis helmet.This whole thing now just is funny to me:)

Jobathenut, your analysis and rationale is most astute. I guess I might be letting the seller off the hook by giving him some credit. The more I think about it, the concept of confusing one helmet with another seems almost impossible.... I agree with you that if the seller actually originally meant to sell his alleged Bettis helmet that he still claims Bettis gave to him, then why he did not post an entirely new listing to sell the actual Bettis helmet that he was allegedly given by Bettis?

[jobathenut]

Thanks for your kind words vikings.I won't lie i had to look up "astute",just to make sure.Yeah,that's all i'm saying,is if he confused the helmets,why is now not selling the bettis helmet:)
Jobathenut, your analysis and rationale is most astute. I guess I might be letting the seller off the hook by giving him some credit. The more I think about it, the concept of confusing one helmet with another seems almost impossible.... I agree with you that if the seller actually originally meant to sell his alleged Bettis helmet that he still claims Bettis gave to him, then why he did not post an entirely new listing to sell the actual Bettis helmet that he was allegedly given by Bettis?

[Vikingshelmetguy]

Thanks for your kind words vikings.I won't lie i had to look up "astute",just to make sure.Yeah,that's all i'm saying,is if he confused the helmets,why is now not selling the bettis helmet:)

Hey Jobathenut, sorry for my use of fancy-pants words, like "astute"! I am a lawyer (my job each day), and sometimes I get carried away using obscure and legal-sounding words like "astute", when really what I meant and what I should have said is that your analysis was smart, sensible, logical and well-reasoned! :o

[jobathenut]

No need to apologize vikings-that's why they have dictionary's.Usually you don't hear those "fancy-pants" words on a forum.Well thanks for the kinds words,that even a stubid person like me can understand.:)
Hey Jobathenut, sorry for my use of fancy-pants words, like "astute"! I am a lawyer (my job each day), and sometimes I get carried away using obscure and legal-sounding words like "astute", when really what I meant and what I should have said is that your analysis was smart, sensible, logical and well-reasoned! :o

[helmets]

btw my friend, did you ever locate that helmet bart starr gave you? i know you mentioned that you had another packers helmet and often got them mixed up...

...
Yes, I get the Starr mixed up with an old helmet lamp...