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View Full Version : ARod and allegations of pitch tipping



cjclong
05-04-2009, 08:43 AM
Micheal Young was quoted in a column by Randy Galloway in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram yesterday (Sunday May 3) as saying that ARod was not tipping pitches while Young played next to him at second base during ARod's tour with the Rangers. Galloway also quoted two other members of the Rangers who anonymously said they they were sure ARod was not tipping pitches. The two who spoke anonymously did not want to get involved in the controversy. Young said there was no way that ARod was tipping pictures. Young said the controversy was over ARod CALLING pitches. The new catcher, ELinar Diaz, was having trouble calling pitches and ARod started trying to call them for him. ARod felt the ptich selection was bad and wanted Buch Showalter to fire the pitching coach Orel Hershiser. Showalter felt Alex was trying to take over the team and exceeding his authority as a player and there was a permanent break between them. That is something that is totally different from pitch tipping. It will be interesting to see if the "well regarded" author who wrote the current book interviewed Michael Young who played next to Alex at seoond base and was ready to go on record by name and say ARod didn't tip pitches. I'm sure she didn't quote the anonymous Rangers who also say ARod didn't tip pitches atlhough she was perfectly willing to quote anonymous people who say he did. The thing that is sad is the rest of the media isn't also talking to a well regarded player like Michael Young who says ARod didn't tip pitches but is willing to quote an author who quotes annoymous people (we can only assume they really exist ) in order to sell a book that appears to be just a hit job. This is not a defense of ARod. He lied about taking PED's and he will have to live with that. But he or anyone else should not be accused of things without viable proof.

ironmanfan
05-04-2009, 08:55 AM
I watched Harold Reynolds last evening on the MLB Network and he said that Michael Young would not be a good person to judge whether or not A-Rod was tipping pitches or not since he would only be looking over to him to see who was covering the bag on an attempted steal (obviously in steal situations only) and that Young's focus would be on the batter the majority of the time...Also, I heard Jim Duquette interviewed on Friday on XM Radio and he said that he had heard for years that A-Rod was tipping pitches and that this allegation was nothing new.....

sportscentury
05-04-2009, 09:33 AM
I value the presumption of innocence. I also value the principle that one should not be punished more than he deserves. While I'm not interested in ARod being blamed or punished for things he did not do, would it really surprise us to learn that ARod was tipping pitches or cheating via other avenues? As much as I wish it were not the case (as I used to be a huge ARod fan), he is a known/admitted cheater and liar.

quiggle28
05-04-2009, 09:51 AM
those who purchased the book today, did it also touch upon that play most deemed "bush league" when he was rounding the bases in a game and distracted the fielder from catching the ball?

quiggle28
05-04-2009, 09:53 AM
I apologize but I clicked on the submit button too quickly

I also want to know how the topic of Game 6 2004 ALCS is treated when he slapped the baseball away from Brandon Arroyo.

cjclong
05-04-2009, 10:56 AM
A guy who played with him every day for three years would have no idea if he was tipping pitches. Give me a break. The allegation he was tipping pitches isn't a one way street. The allegation is he was tipping pitches so the person he was tipping pitches to would do the same for him. So who was tipping pitches to Alex? We don't hear any names do we? So these guys that are ratting out ARod won't say who was tipping him off on the pitches. Maybe because no one was? Anybody find that interesting. And as I said, if this author is so interested in the truth did she talk to anyone who might have a different story that might not help sell the book?

KrAzY3
05-04-2009, 11:15 AM
I don't know what to make of the tipping pitches situation. I think one could try to figure out what hitters (if any) did especially well when they were playing a team A-Rod was on and vice-versa, but it's not the type of thing you are likely to get either party to admit to. It does sound far fetched, but with millions of dollars at stake I can imagine why players would try to pad their stats (not that I justify it).

A-Rod seems like a good target right now. As bad as some of the stuff he's done seems, he's still just one cheater among many. I'd like MLB to stop covering for the steroid users and let it get out in the open so people stop making assumptions and have facts to go on.

ironmanfan
05-04-2009, 12:00 PM
We don't hear any names do we?

We also didn't hear any names about the "un-named" source who outed A-Rod as one of the 103 who tested positive in 2003...A-Rod was the ONLY guy named by this "un-named" source and instead of denying once it came out in February, he did that softball interrview with Peter Gammons (about his cousin with the Boli in the DR...lol)...How come now when these un-named sources are used about tipping pitches, you don't hear A-Fraud disputing them?

cjclong
05-04-2009, 01:02 PM
Well you don't hear the names do you? Unlike the drug situation ARod could lie about this if he chose to because it would be his word against theirs unlike his word against a positive drug test. So the fact he doesn't comment on this doesn't prove anything. If the anonymous sources knew ARod was tipping pitches for a particular batter they also would know that batter was tipping pitches to ARod. If they didn't tip pitches for him their would be no point in his doing it for them. But you have not heard one word about anyone tipping ARod off on the pitches coming his way. Why not? Myabe because it never happend. If the anonymous sources know he was tipping pitches they would know who for. Lets hear this anomymous person or person NAME the players they claim he was tipping for. This is key to the claim. If they can't say who he was tipping for, specific names, then they have no proof he was tipping. Did the writer ask the anonymous sources WHO ARod was tipping for. Could they have given names. I would not be surprised if the answer is no on both.

gameused
05-04-2009, 01:03 PM
I thought this was pretty funny, found it on the Boston Dirt Dogs site :D

Capital-Sports
05-04-2009, 01:26 PM
lol gameused............that sh*t is hilerious man

sportscentury
05-04-2009, 01:47 PM
lol gameused............that sh*t is hilerious man

Yes, love or hate ARod, that is pretty darn funny.

quiggle28
05-04-2009, 02:36 PM
http://njctech.com/njc/pub/sox/ArodPursePink.jpg

yanks12025
05-04-2009, 03:21 PM
I know im a yankee fan but i think a-rod had every right to hit the ball out of the glove. It's just like a play at the plate and you can run the catcher right over or when a second baseben is chasing you down with the ball you can take him out for being in your way.

both-teams-played-hard
05-04-2009, 03:26 PM
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/2217/jeterarodloveconnection.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6664/arodpurse2.jpg

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/1575/arodtips.jpg

yanks12025
05-04-2009, 03:31 PM
I'd rather choke once then have all the chokes that the red sox's have had over the years.

justinlm24
05-04-2009, 03:38 PM
I believe all of it. A-rod is a known liar and a cheat. So him tipping pitches really doesn't come as any surprise. It's just a shame because he could have went down as one of the best player in MLB history. Now he is just another tarnished name. It really doesn't matter if it's the truth or not. it will follow him the rest of his career. Who is next? Pujols?

mr.miracle
05-04-2009, 03:58 PM
I know im a yankee fan but i think a-rod had every right to hit the ball out of the glove. It's just like a play at the plate and you can run the catcher right over or when a second baseben is chasing you down with the ball you can take him out for being in your way.


So, just trying to figure this out, if a pop fly is hit in the infield, can the baserunner steamroll the fielder attempting to field the fly ball preventing him from catching the pop-up?

If a player hits a ground ball to short can he tackle the first baseman or run him over assuming he is not blocking the baseline in an attempt to keep from being called out? Just not sure where that type of thing ends.

mr.miracle
05-04-2009, 04:13 PM
http://njctech.com/njc/pub/sox/ArodPursePink.jpg
Originally Posted by yanks12025 http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?p=138224#post138224)
I know im a yankee fan but i think a-rod had every right to hit the ball out of the glove. It's just like a play at the plate and you can run the catcher right over or when a second baseben is chasing you down with the ball you can take him out for being in your way.

The other Thing I am not getting, you can clearly see as AROID is running down the baseline in his Pink Yankees attire with his black handback which by the way does not appear to be Gucci (what is wrong with that guy) that he is not in any way impeded by the second baseman trying to tag him out. It is not like the guy was standing in the baseline in fact he is trying to chase AROID down from either behind or the side. That was just plain bushleague in every way. Now personally, I would just punch the guy in the face on my way down the line, but that is just me.:rolleyes:

mwbosoxfan
05-04-2009, 05:12 PM
I know im a yankee fan but i think a-rod had every right to hit the ball out of the glove. It's just like a play at the plate and you can run the catcher right over or when a second baseben is chasing you down with the ball you can take him out for being in your way.

Guess again -

Although Rodriguez committed interference, there is no language in the rulebook that is available to the public that prohibits a runner from using his hands to avoid a tag or any other reason. It is, however, outlined in the supplemental rulebook given to umpires in section 6.1. It reads: "While contact may occur between a fielder and runner during a tag attempt, a runner is not allowed to use his hands or arms to commit an obviously malicious or unsportsmanlike act--such as grabbing, tackling, intentionally slapping at the baseball, punching, kicking, flagrantly using his arms or forearms, etc. to commit an intentional act of interference unrelated to running the bases."

Notice the rule allows for contact. If Rodriguez lowered his shoulder and ran over Arroyo, this would have been perfectly legal.

I'm not a major league umpire or a rules expert for that matter, but I remember seeing this article in Baseball Digest. It was written by Rich Marazzi in 2005.

gameused
05-04-2009, 05:28 PM
Here's some of whats written in the book:

In an effort to improve his statistics, Rodriguez allegedly tipped pitches to opposing middle infielders in the hope that they would later return the favor.

"Before the Texas pitcher's windup, Alex, with his left arm hanging by his side, would twist his glove back and forth as if turning a dial on a safe's lock," the book reads. "Then the hitter knew: a changeup was on the way. Alex would also sweep dirt with his cleat to tip a slider to a batter."

Roberts also describes how Rodriguez would contort his body to signal where in the strike zone the pitcher was aiming.

"Few Rangers were aware it was going on," Roberts writes, "but those who did were maddened by it."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090504&content_id=4552678&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

mr.miracle
05-04-2009, 06:29 PM
Guess again -

Although Rodriguez committed interference, there is no language in the rulebook that is available to the public that prohibits a runner from using his hands to avoid a tag or any other reason. It is, however, outlined in the supplemental rulebook given to umpires in section 6.1. It reads: "While contact may occur between a fielder and runner during a tag attempt, a runner is not allowed to use his hands or arms to commit an obviously malicious or unsportsmanlike act--such as grabbing, tackling, intentionally slapping at the baseball, punching, kicking, flagrantly using his arms or forearms, etc. to commit an intentional act of interference unrelated to running the bases."

Notice the rule allows for contact. If Rodriguez lowered his shoulder and ran over Arroyo, this would have been perfectly legal.

I'm not a major league umpire or a rules expert for that matter, but I remember seeing this article in Baseball Digest. It was written by Rich Marazzi in 2005.


I think that this would have been problematic on several fronts. First, Arroyo was not directly in front of Rodriguez. Any effort to run him over would have taken him well out of the baseline in which case he would have been ruled out.

Secondly, given the volatile history between both clubs, I would love to see this one happen. If Rodriguez had run out of the baseline and run Arroyo over this would have probably incited a full scale bench clearing brawl. I would have loved to have seen Steinbrenner running down from the owners box with his prized AROD toy bat taking swings at Big Papi.

yanks12025
05-04-2009, 07:00 PM
I want toknow the names of these players who were maddened by A-rod tipping off pitches. Ain't it funny that everything in her book is coming from a unknown source or a player who wont say his name.

staindsox
05-04-2009, 07:17 PM
Journalists NEVER reveal their sources. They go to jail to keep their sources anonymous. If a journalist were to give up a source, they would never ever get a story again.

ironmanfan
05-04-2009, 09:13 PM
I want toknow the names of these players who were maddened by A-rod tipping off pitches. Ain't it funny that everything in her book is coming from a unknown source or a player who wont say his name.

Woodward & Bernstein never revealed their source (BTW, that's not a double play combination)

cjclong
05-05-2009, 08:20 AM
The book says players were maddened by ARod tipping pitches so they did what? Nothing. The Rangers manger Buck Showalter and ARod did not get along. Why didn't the players who were so angry go to the manager or other people in the organization and say ARod is hurting our team alsotell the pitchers whose pitches were being tipped and who would have been the most directly affected. If they thought ARod was tipping pitches and were so upset they could have got it stopped quick. There is something about this that doesn't pass the smell test. As far as anonymous sources, a journalist doesn't have to tell. But when a source won't reveal themselves we need some corroboration, some other evidence their story is true to take them serioulsy. It would be as if someone wrote they had been told one of the forum members, could be any of us, cheated another forum member. When asked who the person who made the accusation was they won't say who told them or who the member allegdly cheated or when . We would all be highly angry if we were accused of wrong doing by an annonymos person with no proof. And yet so many people accept these accusations of others without any question.

bigtime59
05-05-2009, 09:51 AM
How many millions of dollars are the Rangers paying Miss Pay-Roid to play for the Yankee$ (the richest team in the league, lest we forget)? Doesn't that sound to you like a guy being run out of town on a rail?

____________

And as to the "slap" against the Red $ox: as someone who had his left thumb bent back until it was almost touching his forearm on a play at the plate, I can tell you that hurts a lot more than being blown up by a runner (guy tried to tackle the glove to knock the ball out in a softball game...I had him dead to rights otherwise). Almost a decade later, I still don't have the same range of motion in my left thumb as in my right.

BULBUS
05-05-2009, 10:13 AM
How many millions of dollars are the Rangers paying Miss Pay-Roid to play for the Yankee$

$0.00

mr.miracle
05-05-2009, 10:47 AM
How many millions of dollars are the Rangers paying Miss Pay-Roid to play for the Yankee$ (the richest team in the league, lest we forget)? Doesn't that sound to you like a guy being run out of town on a rail?

____________

And as to the "slap" against the Red $ox: as someone who had his left thumb bent back until it was almost touching his forearm on a play at the plate, I can tell you that hurts a lot more than being blown up by a runner (guy tried to tackle the glove to knock the ball out in a softball game...I had him dead to rights otherwise). Almost a decade later, I still don't have the same range of motion in my left thumb as in my right.

And there it is again, another name for AROID. And again, I say this man has more nicknames than Apollo Creed in Rocky IV. So, let me see, we are at PayRod, PayROID, AROID, AHOLE, ABOMB, Miss Pay Roid, and which other ones am I missing. Perhaps A Dummy because at the end of the day, this guy just cannot stop doing stupid stuff. If AROID is hiring a new PR firm I am all for the job. Heck, I can't do any worse than the guys advising him now. I just cannot figure out of his PR staff is that dumb or AROID himself is that dumb and just won't listen to anyone.

BULBUS
05-05-2009, 11:06 AM
which other ones am I missing.

Whithout thinking too hard, A-Fraud and BitchTits (names given by Yankee teammates).

LWMM
05-06-2009, 10:10 AM
Woodward & Bernstein never revealed their source (BTW, that's not a double play combination)

Playing the devil's advocate, if I remember correctly Felt required Woodward to get three other sources per claim before printing them. I'm not sure, however, how many sources Roberts has backing up the alleged pitch tipping.

earlywynnfan
05-06-2009, 10:13 AM
I want toknow the names of these players who were maddened by A-rod tipping off pitches. Ain't it funny that everything in her book is coming from a unknown source or a player who wont say his name.

This woman who wrote the book is a hack journalist looking to fan flames of rage and anger, not write the facts as they are. If anyone is interested, look back at what she wrote about the Duke Lacrosse drama. Also, look back over her columns about AROD before this book came out; she isn't an unbiased journalist, she thinks he represents all that is bad with American sports. If that's her idea going in, how fair is she going to be? How willing to listen to unsubstantiated talk as upposed to checking, re-checking, and checking for a third time the facts??

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

suave1477
05-06-2009, 10:27 AM
How many millions of dollars are the Rangers paying Miss Pay-Roid to play for the Yankee$ (the richest team in the league, lest we forget)? Doesn't that sound to you like a guy being run out of town on a rail?

____________

And as to the "slap" against the Red $ox: as someone who had his left thumb bent back until it was almost touching his forearm on a play at the plate, I can tell you that hurts a lot more than being blown up by a runner (guy tried to tackle the glove to knock the ball out in a softball game...I had him dead to rights otherwise). Almost a decade later, I still don't have the same range of motion in my left thumb as in my right.

Rangers aren't paying anything. Yankees were the only ones who could bail the Rangers out because they couldn't afford to continue to pay his salary.
So the Rangers aren't paying for Arod to play for the Yankees.

3arod13
05-06-2009, 10:56 AM
This woman who wrote the book is a hack journalist looking to fan flames of rage and anger, not write the facts as they are. If anyone is interested, look back at what she wrote about the Duke Lacrosse drama. Also, look back over her columns about AROD before this book came out; she isn't an unbiased journalist, she thinks he represents all that is bad with American sports. If that's her idea going in, how fair is she going to be? How willing to listen to unsubstantiated talk as upposed to checking, re-checking, and checking for a third time the facts??

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Well said! I'm so sick of all this Arod crap! Don't care about his personal life. I do care about what he does in baseball (factual, not hearsay).

xpress34
05-06-2009, 11:17 AM
which other ones am I missing.

My personal nickname for him - due to his always chasing more $$$ and just being an all around jerk to fans (based on various personal experiences) is A$$Rod.

Regardless of the new book (which I have not - and do not - intend to read), I personally cannot stand the guy along with a few other players... and again, all based on various personal experiences and how I have personally seen them treat the fans who pay their salaries.

My .02

- Chris

BULBUS
05-06-2009, 11:25 AM
Rangers aren't paying anything. Yankees were the only ones who could bail the Rangers out because they couldn't afford to continue to pay his salary.
So the Rangers aren't paying for Arod to play for the Yankees.

The Rangers are no longer paying a portion of Arods salary because he opted out of his first 250 mil contract. As you can imagine, when Arod opted out, the Rangers were very happy campers.

cjclong
05-06-2009, 11:43 AM
I'm not familiar with the author. What did she write about the Duke Lacrosse players. Did she write they were scum as a lot people did from the start or that they were unjustly accused as they were?

earlywynnfan
05-06-2009, 12:59 PM
I'm not familiar with the author. What did she write about the Duke Lacrosse players. Did she write they were scum as a lot people did from the start or that they were unjustly accused as they were?

Check out the thread that Suave just posted, "columnist fires back."

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

joelsabi
06-12-2009, 11:25 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/06/11/2009-06-11_rick_sutcliffe_tiptoes_around_rift_with_arod_an d_mark_teixeira.html

interesting read.

joelsabi
06-12-2009, 11:28 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/06/11/2009-06-11_rick_sutcliffe_tiptoes_around_rift_with_arod_an d_mark_teixeira.html

interesting read.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/06/10/2009-06-10_accusations_bring_arod_mark_teixeira_to_tipping _point.html

from the previous day.

cjclong
06-12-2009, 01:31 PM
If ARod was stealing signs and giving them to his teammate that would be totally different from tipping the others teams batters on what his teams pitchers were throwing. Stealing signs is frequently the reason a catcher goes out to talk to a pitcher when the other teams runner gets to second base so they can change the signs so the runner can't tip the hitter off. I don't know about hitters in the on deck circle doing it, but Bob Turley was sometimes able to call pitches for the Yankee hitters from the dugout in the 50's and 60's. So I don't know if that is consdiered so bad, and anyway Teixeira denied it and made a point of telling the media it did not happen. As far as I know Teixeira is considered a credible person.