Error on 2005 Donruss Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl Jersey Card?

[RKO18]

I just bought a Fran Tarkenton 1976 Game-Worn Pro Bowl jersey card off of ebay.

The auction can be found here...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=110372311001

Trusting that Donruss would be correct about what jerseys they put in their cards, I didn't think there would be an issue. At first I was confused about what the "1976 Pro Bowl" stood for. I imagine it stands for the 1976 Pro Bowl that which would have been held at the end of the 1975 season, the same year that Tarkenton won the MVP.

But after I did some research, it turns out that Fran Tarkenton did not play in the 1976 Pro Bowl due to injury.

So how can this be? I have yet to get the card in the mail so I can't read the back of the card but the front does say "Game-Worn" nameplate and "Game-Worn" jersey number.

Does anybody have any thoughts about what could be going on here?

Thanks :)

[schubert1970]

I just bought a Fran Tarkenton 1976 Game-Worn Pro Bowl jersey card off of ebay.

The auction can be found here...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=110372311001

Trusting that Donruss would be correct about what jerseys they put in their cards, I didn't think there would be an issue. At first I was confused about what the "1976 Pro Bowl" stood for. I imagine it stands for the 1976 Pro Bowl that which would have been held at the end of the 1975 season, the same year that Tarkenton won the MVP.

But after I did some research, it turns out that Fran Tarkenton did not play in the 1976 Pro Bowl due to injury.

So how can this be? I have yet to get the card in the mail so I can't read the back of the card but the front does say "Game-Worn" nameplate and "Game-Worn" jersey number.

Does anybody have any thoughts about what could be going on here?

Thanks :)


The card companies think the majority of card collectors are idots (i might agree with this assumption). Hence, they could care less about the quality of items used in their precious inserts. Since most collectors would never do the research you did. Good for you! Write the company and give them a good ribbing.

If you search the forum you'll find ths isn't all that uncommon.

[RKO18]

The card companies think the majority of card collectors are idots (i might agree with this assumption). Hence, they could care less about the quality of items used in their precious inserts. Since most collectors would never do the research you did. Good for you! Write the company and give them a good ribbing.

If you search the forum you'll find ths isn't all that uncommon.

What I want to know is if the jersey within the card was actually worn by Tarkenton during any Pro Bowl, even if it wasn't during the 1976 one. Perhaps Tarkenton came to the Pro Bowl and stood on the sideline wearing the jersey? I know Marvin Harrison did that in 2006. Or perhaps back in the 1970's, players re-used Pro Bowl jerseysso long as they were selected to multiple games?

These are the questions I'd like to have answered. I can only hope that someone on the board might know, otherwise I'm going to have an interesting decision to make.

[suave1477]

I would wait till you actually get the card in your hands to see exactly what the card states. The seller is saying that it is from the Pro Bowl. But the card itself may just say Game Worn and just a picture of him and calling this the (Pro Bowl series) (of this particular set).

If in deed it does state game worn during the pro bowl could also be a possibility that maybe even if he was injured could of sat on the sidelines. I know this doesn't mean game worn but that could be there way of saying he wore the Jersey as he sat there. I don't know just a suggestion.

Or this could be another card company blunder!!

[5kRunner]

There was a thread around here that showed a whole bunch of mistakes made by card companies. Some included jersey patches that were of colors of teams that player had never played for and retail bat pieces that were "game used."

My advice is this:

"7 day money back, buyer pays return shipping"

You did the research, you know its not authentic. Cut your losses.

And save your money for full jerseys.:D

[RKO18]

I would wait till you actually get the card in your hands to see exactly what the card states. The seller is saying that it is from the Pro Bowl. But the card itself may just say Game Worn and just a picture of him and calling this the (Pro Bowl series) (of this particular set).

If in deed it does state game worn during the pro bowl could also be a possibility that maybe even if he was injured could of sat on the sidelines. I know this doesn't mean game worn but that could be there way of saying he wore the Jersey as he sat there. I don't know just a suggestion.

Or this could be another card company blunder!!

Thank you for the suggestion.

I did do some more research though. Tarkenton played for both the Vikings and the Giants. The colors of the jersey within the card are blue, white, and red. The material however is different from what the Giants used, the the Giants did not have any red on their jerseys during the Tarkenton era.

It could certainly be possible that Tarkenton wore the jersey on the sideline and that would be good enough for me even though it wouldn't be "Game-Used". I'd just really like to figure this out because it seems like too big a mistake to have been made.

[suave1477]

Thank you for the suggestion.
. I'd just really like to figure this out because it seems like too big a mistake to have been made.

Trust me it's not too big of a mistake. Card companies have made worse in the past.

As the other member mentioned if you do a search you will see this topic has been brought up before on the mistakes card companies make.

I myself have once found a Darryl Strawberry card with a piece in the card of a patch with colors in it that Darryl could of never ever worn for a game.

Because the colors used were never used in anything he was apart of baseball wise.
Was not an all star patch, world series, or anything as far as even a regular season significance patch.

[RKO18]

Trust me it's not too big of a mistake. Card companies have made worse in the past.

As the other member mentioned if you do a search you will see this topic has been brought up before on the mistakes card companies make.

I myself have once found a Darryl Strawberry card with a piece in the card of a patch with colors in it that Darryl could of never ever worn for a game.

Because the colors used were never used in anything he was apart of baseball wise.
Was not an all star patch, world series, or anything as far as even a regular season significance patch.

I guess I've been in the dark about this, I have not collected too many game-worn jersey cards. I went to Donruss' website and there is a form you could fill out and send with the card to have a piece of "Prime-Jersey" authenticated. The problem is, I'm awaiting this card in the mail and I'd rather send it back than to risk it if there is not greater detail on the back of the card.

[otismalibu]

Is there any way to authenticate a swatch of material as far as attributing it to a certain player?

Well, maybe on CSI.

Or maybe if only one swatch was taken and someone has the rest of the jersey, so you can compare.

Ask them for a photo (back, front and tags) of the jersey that was cut up for the card. I asked Upper Deck for this info. They said they don't keep that info. I wonder why?

[Eric]

Someone mentioned the thread about bad swatches

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=17643

[both-teams-played-hard]

Serious post. First wait 'til you get the card. Contact a lawyer about fraud. Threaten Donruss with legal action. Tell them you have a friend who works for a National Newspaper who thinks this would make a great human interest story. I am very sorry about how Fran is your childhood hero and you are suffering from mental anguish. Night sweats? It's at least worth a prescription for medical weed.
BTW...Pro-bowlers wore red, white and blue jerseys specially made for the game regardless of what team they're from. They were always red, white and blue. I have never heard of a pro-bowl jersey being re-used from game to game.
I am also serious about the legal action. Somebody will say we are in a sue-happy society. Ask those people if they will pay your rent.

[RKO18]

Serious post. First wait 'til you get the card. Contact a lawyer about fraud. Threaten Donruss with legal action. Tell them you have a friend who works for a National Newspaper who thinks this would make a great human interest story. I am very sorry about how Fran is your childhood hero and you are suffering from mental anguish. Night sweats? It's at least worth a prescription for medical weed.
BTW...Pro-bowlers wore red, white and blue jerseys specially made for the game regardless of what team they're from. They were always red, white and blue. I have never heard of a pro-bowl jersey being re-used from game to game.
I am also serious about the legal action. Somebody will say we are in a sue-happy society. Ask those people if they will pay your rent.

The thing is, this is serious to me. When I thought that I purchased a card that had the jersey Tarkenton wore during his MVP 1975 season (76 pro bowl), I couldn't have been more thrilled.

Right now I'm looking for a box-score to confirm that he did not play during that Pro Bowl game, we'll see.

[trsent]

The thing is, this is serious to me. When I thought that I purchased a card that had the jersey Tarkenton wore during his MVP 1975 season (76 pro bowl), I couldn't have been more thrilled.

Right now I'm looking for a box-score to confirm that he did not play during that Pro Bowl game, we'll see.

He was on the rooster -

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1976/probowl.htm

[both-teams-played-hard]

He was on the rooster -

If I didn't have such an exciting life, I would put together a photo-shop creation...

[trsent]

If I didn't have such an exciting life, I would put together a photo-shop creation...

Ok, here comes one. Go for it Warren.

I would like to see who comes up with a box score first without going to the library. I couldn't find one - yet.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Ok, here comes one. Go for it Warren.

I would like to see who comes up with a box score first without going to the library. I couldn't find one - yet.
Francis on a rooster
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9978/fran1.jpg

[suave1477]

Both teams you kill me every time lmaoooo:D

[aeneas01]

Burlington. (N.C.) Times-News Fri., Jan. 4, 1977
Tarkenton Under Fire For Skipping Pro Bowl

SAN DIEGO (AP) — They're saying some pretty nasty things about Fran Tarkenton at the Pro Bowl, mainly because he's not a part of it. "His not being here is like a slap in the face to every player taking part in this game," St Louis Cardinals quarterback Jim Hart said at Thursday's workout. Hart is closer to the situation than anyone else. He would not be a part of it, if Tarkenton, the quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings, had not decided to skip Monday night's game in Seattle.

Tarkenton claims an injury suffered about four weeks ago in the opening round of the National Football League playoffs is forcing him out of this annual all-star game though he never reported any after-effects from that game when he played in the National Conference championships and in the Super BowL.

"It's not the first time he's pulled this," Hart said of Tarkenton's withdrawal. "Personally, I couldn't be happier. It gives me a chance to play in a game that only a few players get a chance to play in. I'm absolutiey delighted to be here. Listen, it's more than just another game. It's an honor."

Tarkenton, it must be noted, is not the only Pro Bowl selection pulling out of this meeting of American and National Conference stars. Five others have done the same — but that hasn't stilled the criticism of Tarkenton.

"If a guy's chosen to play in a game like this," said Hart, "he should have the decency to be a part of it. It's not asking too much."

Tarkenton has now been selected to four Pro Bowls. But he has appeared in only one, in 1971. This makes the third straight year be is by-passing this game, which follows the Super Bowl by one week.

"His excuses are wearing a little thin, don't you think?" said Roger Staubach of Dallas, elevated to the NFC starting quarterback job by Tarkenton's absence. "I think what he's doing is disgraceful."

Even one of Tarkenton's teammates, rookie wide receiver Sammy White, was critical of his quarterback. "If it was really a bad injury that was keeping him out, like Franco (Hams of the Pittsburgh Steelers), I could see it," White said. "But from what's being said, I just don't know. "This is my first game, so I'm all excited about it. Maybe if I'd been picked for a lot of them, I'd feel different — but I hope not. I mean, the fans are paying to see the best players in the game. That's what they deserve. That's what they should be seeing."

----------------------------------------

sorry, no link - it's from a paid newspaper archive service. btw, the photo the card company chose to use (below) for that bogus collectible is actually from the 1970 pro bowl (played in 1971), the only pro bowl in which tarkenton participated...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/ft.jpg

...

[aeneas01]

to be clear, tarkenton didn't make the trip to the pro bowls he withdrew from (including the 1976/77 pro bowl) - he didn't suit up for these games, he didn't hang out on the sideline, etc. - he was mia...

...

[Ripken]

Really interesting to see how critical his fellow players were of his begging out of the game. That just doesn't happen anymore. They saw a Pro Bowl invite as an honor not to be taken lightly and weren't afraid to call out a fellow colleague for thumbing his nose at the league and its fans. Refreshing to see in the milquetoast NFL of today.

And they were glad to play on the crappy Kingdome Field in SEATTLE --not Honolulu!

[RKO18]

Thank you guys a lot for helping me with all of this research.

Now I'm really not sure what to make of it. If he only played in the 1971 Pro Bowl, why not just say "1971" instead of "1976"? Heck, Tarkenton was selected to 9 Pro Bowls, why single 1976 out?

I have yet to see another classic Pro Bowl jersey insert in that series. The others are all from the 21st century, Culpepper in 2001, Brady in 2002, and Jamal Lewis in 2004 have been what I've seen so far, even using Beckett's website to look it up.

I'd imagine that the inclusion of a HOF'er's jersey into this set would be even more rare. How on earth could they not get this right? If I can find out that Tarkenton didn't play in the Pro Bowl of 1976, there is no reason why Donruss should have not been able to figure this out.

Now... What should I make of this card? The material seems to be an exact match to what Tarkenton wore in the 1971 Pro Bowl. Of course, I would have no way of knowing that it was real which brings me to my final thought...

What do you guys think is actually in this card?

A real Tarkenton Pro Bowl jersey? An issued jersey? A Pro Bowl jersey from the wrong year?

[both-teams-played-hard]

A quick guess would say that they used knits in 1970 and mesh in 1976 (don't know for sure). What type of material is the swatch?

[Rob L]

Thank you guys a lot for helping me with all of this research.

Now I'm really not sure what to make of it. If he only played in the 1971 Pro Bowl, why not just say "1971" instead of "1976"? Heck, Tarkenton was selected to 9 Pro Bowls, why single 1976 out?

I have yet to see another classic Pro Bowl jersey insert in that series. The others are all from the 21st century, Culpepper in 2001, Brady in 2002, and Jamal Lewis in 2004 have been what I've seen so far, even using Beckett's website to look it up.

I'd imagine that the inclusion of a HOF'er's jersey into this set would be even more rare. How on earth could they not get this right? If I can find out that Tarkenton didn't play in the Pro Bowl of 1976, there is no reason why Donruss should have not been able to figure this out.

Now... What should I make of this card? The material seems to be an exact match to what Tarkenton wore in the 1971 Pro Bowl. Of course, I would have no way of knowing that it was real which brings me to my final thought...

What do you guys think is actually in this card?

A real Tarkenton Pro Bowl jersey? An issued jersey? A Pro Bowl jersey from the wrong year?

How about a Tarkenton issued jersey. Could also be another jersey from that game that is then attributed to Tarkenton.

[RKO18]

This might be a silly thought but...

Is there any chance that this is actually a piece of Tarkenton's 1971 Pro Bowl jersey (considering the picture of Fran is indeed from the 71 Pro Bowl) but the card was mis-printed to say "1976" instead of "1971"?

I also went to Beckett's website and did a search and found a picture of the generic non-jersey Tarkenton Pro Bowl card and it also said 1976. Perhaps Donruss simply mis-printed the year on all the cards?

[suave1477]

This might be a silly thought but...

Is there any chance that this is actually a piece of Tarkenton's 1971 Pro Bowl jersey (considering the picture of Fran is indeed from the 71 Pro Bowl) but the card was mis-printed to say "1976" instead of "1971"?

I also went to Beckett's website and did a search and found a picture of the generic non-jersey Tarkenton Pro Bowl card and it also said 1976. Perhaps Donruss simply mis-printed the year on all the cards?

Anything is possible but then I think Beckett would have listed those as error cards. For something like that I would think it would be best to contact Donruss and try to get a hold of someone there to find out if that was a possible error card.

[Eric]

The swatches that appear on cards aren't necessarily from the year represented on the card

Here is a Bucs jersey on a Chargers card of Keenan McCardell

20627

[RKO18]

The swatches that appear on cards aren't necessarily from the year represented on the card

Here is a Bucs jersey on a Chargers card of Keenan McCardell

23894

I've seen that happen before. If a player is traded, they include the jersey from his former team. With this Tarkenton card however, there can be no mistake that the material looks only like the Pro Bowl jersey he wore in 1971. There is no purple so it's certainly not a Vikings jersey, and when he played for the giants, there was no red in the jerseys at all.

I'll have a better idea when I can read the back of the card, that should give us some better answers.

[David]

Of note, ordinarily if a player is injured or begs off beforehand, he doesn't even attend the Pro Bowl. He doesn't even fly to Hawaii. It's not like a regular season game, where the player will stand on the sideline if injured.

[skinsfan0521]

I'm actually just getting into the whole game used memorabilia thing, I've been collecting cards for years. I just wanted to follow up on what a couple people said earlier about jerseys from different years/teams...

It is a VERY common thing to put jerseys in the card that weren't worn from a particular season or were worn by the player on a previous team. Also, just because it says "1976" on the front of the card, does NOT mean that the jersey was used during the 1976 season, it's just saying that for the "Pro Bowl Squad" subset purposes.

As you've said, it's really going to be important what the card says on the back, but from my experience they are usually very non-descript and give no real details about anything important. Most of the time it just says something like "this jersey was worn by player x in an official nfl pro bowl game".

So, I'd be very interested to find out what happens with this, so keep this thread updated. Like I said before, I'm really into cards and this whole memorabilia thing (at least full size pieces lol) is all new to me, so it's very interesting.

[sylbry]

http://www.freewebs.com/jdworley/05gridirongearpb.htm

[RKO18]

I'm actually just getting into the whole game used memorabilia thing, I've been collecting cards for years. I just wanted to follow up on what a couple people said earlier about jerseys from different years/teams...

It is a VERY common thing to put jerseys in the card that weren't worn from a particular season or were worn by the player on a previous team. Also, just because it says "1976" on the front of the card, does NOT mean that the jersey was used during the 1976 season, it's just saying that for the "Pro Bowl Squad" subset purposes.

As you've said, it's really going to be important what the card says on the back, but from my experience they are usually very non-descript and give no real details about anything important. Most of the time it just says something like "this jersey was worn by player x in an official nfl pro bowl game".

So, I'd be very interested to find out what happens with this, so keep this thread updated. Like I said before, I'm really into cards and this whole memorabilia thing (at least full size pieces lol) is all new to me, so it's very interesting.

You make a very valid point. The other Pro Bowl jersey cards in the set use the logo of the specific Pro Bowl game for which the jersey is being used. I'm guessing since their might not have been an official logo for the Pro Bowl in those days, they used the NFC logo and the year of 1976.

For arguments sake though, lets say this is jersey from the 1971 Pro Bowl, in my opinion, they should not put the year of 1976 anywhere on the card. It creates a cause for mass confusion. It will be one thing if the back of the card states the exact game it was used in but if it just states generically that it was used in an official NFL game or in an official Pro Bowl game, than there is an issue in my opinion.

With a card such as this, they must be as accurate and detailed as they can be in my opinion although I certainly see where you are coming from.

[RKO18]

http://www.freewebs.com/jdworley/05gridirongearpb.htm

Wow, that was most interesting. None of the Tarkenton cards there are the exact one but they are clearly the same style. Yet without being able to read the back, it's still a bit of a mystery.

I'm more confused with the Jamal Lewis cards in the set. Some of them look to be from the same Pro Bowl as featured within the picture of him on the card while the others are clearly from one of his Ravens jerseys.

I would hope that the back of the card details the difference. Still, it wouldn't appear to be an issue with the Tarkenton card because the style inserted would have had to have been from a Pro Bowl jersey since it wouldn't match one of his Vikings or Giants jerseys.

[skinsfan0521]

I think that the reason they put 1976 on the card is to give the impression that it's from his Pro Bowl from his MVP season. I don't own, nor have ever seen, one of these cards from this set in person, but I think that maybe about 10 - 20 of my hundreds of game used cards give actual dates for the game that the pieces were used. They're always extremely vague and give no details.

I will admit though, that after reading a thousand or so posts on this forum about all the details that game used memorabilia collectors go into for their items, I can see where this becomes an issue on this board. Buuuut, normally there isn't any details given and to be honest, I've never heard any card collectors complain (including myself). Now after reading this forum for a month or so, I wish there were TONS of details, but it never even occured to me before to care what game it was from or what season or to ever try to photmatch anything. I've never heard of the term photomatch until I started reading this forum despite collecting game used memorabilia cards for 10+ years (and just normal cards for twice as long).

Anyway, long winded post, but the moral of the story is that most card collectors (in my experience) don't care about details. They figure that Donruss or Topps or Upper Deck says the jersey was used in a game, so it must've been.

[both-teams-played-hard]

For arguments sake though, lets say this is jersey from the 1971 Pro Bowl, in my opinion, they should not put the year of 1976 anywhere on the card. It creates a cause for mass confusion. It will be one thing if the back of the card states the exact game it was used in but if it just states generically that it was used in an official NFL game or in an official Pro Bowl game, than there is an issue in my opinion.

For another arguments sake, cutting sports relics into iddy biddy pieces for the sake of a profit, creates a cause for mass confusion.

Just say "no" to jersey cards.

[RKO18]

I think that the reason they put 1976 on the card is to give the impression that it's from his Pro Bowl from his MVP season. I don't own, nor have ever seen, one of these cards from this set in person, but I think that maybe about 10 - 20 of my hundreds of game used cards give actual dates for the game that the pieces were used. They're always extremely vague and give no details.

I will admit though, that after reading a thousand or so posts on this forum about all the details that game used memorabilia collectors go into for their items, I can see where this becomes an issue on this board. Buuuut, normally there isn't any details given and to be honest, I've never heard any card collectors complain (including myself). Now after reading this forum for a month or so, I wish there were TONS of details, but it never even occured to me before to care what game it was from or what season or to ever try to photmatch anything. I've never heard of the term photomatch until I started reading this forum despite collecting game used memorabilia cards for 10+ years (and just normal cards for twice as long).

Anyway, long winded post, but the moral of the story is that most card collectors (in my experience) don't care about details. They figure that Donruss or Topps or Upper Deck says the jersey was used in a game, so it must've been.

That is how I looked at it before the issue with this card and after reading about other issues on this board. Usually, I wouldn't care what game or year the patch game from so long as I knew it was honestly from a true game-worn jersey.

The reason why I do care with this card is because the reason I bought it is because it was from Tarkenton's MVP season. The next issue is (that if it is from another Pro Bowl and the jersey swatch is real), the inclusion of the 1976 date damages the credibility of the card in my eyes.

It very well might be real but to see such an obvious error (and/or deception) takes away a lot of the faith I would have otherwise put in the card and the company.

[skinsfan0521]

That is how I looked at it before the issue with this card and after reading about other issues on this board. Usually, I wouldn't care what game or year the patch game from so long as I knew it was honestly from a true game-worn jersey.

The reason why I do care with this card is because the reason I bought it is because it was from Tarkenton's MVP season. The next issue is (that if it is from another Pro Bowl and the jersey swatch is real), the inclusion of the 1976 date damages the credibility of the card in my eyes.

It very well might be real but to see such an obvious error (and/or deception) takes away a lot of the faith I would have otherwise put in the card and the company.

I completely agree. That's what I'm saying... before I started reading all this stuff on here about all the details that people try to get to authenticate items I never gave it a second thought about what game, year, or anything else it came from.

I also agree that it's very deceiving when they put the date on there, but I think that generally card collectors couldn't care either way so that's why they get away with it. Nobody challenges them, so they don't have to worry about explaining themselves.

[RKO18]

I completely agree. That's what I'm saying... before I started reading all this stuff on here about all the details that people try to get to authenticate items I never gave it a second thought about what game, year, or anything else it came from.

I also agree that it's very deceiving when they put the date on there, but I think that generally card collectors couldn't care either way so that's why they get away with it. Nobody challenges them, so they don't have to worry about explaining themselves.

Well when your a card company that has been around for 50 years, you need to get this stuff right. I kinda understand why putting 1976 on the card could add more luster to it but at the same time, these cards come in packs and I think that anyone would be thrilled to get a HOF'ers Pro Bowl jersey card, regardless of the year.

People usually not taking the time to do the research is no excuse for issues like this. If the dealer does not offer a refund on the item, I really might call up Donruss and make an issue of it. I'm not that kind of person but they need to get their stuff right and/or be more accurate with cards of this nature.

[skinsfan0521]

Well when your a card company that has been around for 50 years, you need to get this stuff right. I kinda understand why putting 1976 on the card could add more luster to it but at the same time, these cards come in packs and I think that anyone would be thrilled to get a HOF'ers Pro Bowl jersey card, regardless of the year.

People usually not taking the time to do the research is no excuse for issues like this. If the dealer does not offer a refund on the item, I really might call up Donruss and make an issue of it. I'm not that kind of person but they need to get their stuff right and/or be more accurate with cards of this nature.

I would actually just call Donruss first and see what they say. Sometimes they have some things to give you in exchange for your troubles are are really nice. They might have something of Tarkenton that is more rare or something like that they might exchange it for. It's not common, but they definitely do it sometimes, especially if you present all of this evidence about how they really screwed up and you can prove it.

[RKO18]

I would actually just call Donruss first and see what they say. Sometimes they have some things to give you in exchange for your troubles are are really nice. They might have something of Tarkenton that is more rare or something like that they might exchange it for. It's not common, but they definitely do it sometimes, especially if you present all of this evidence about how they really screwed up and you can prove it.

Have you every experienced anything like this? Would they actually take away the Pro Bowl card in exchange for something more rare?Sounds interesting anyway.

[skinsfan0521]

Have you every experienced anything like this? Would they actually take away the Pro Bowl card in exchange for something more rare?Sounds interesting anyway.

I've had "rare" cards (low serial #'d including 1/1) that were damaged and I've sent them back to the companies and they've made good. The only thing that I've personally done this with was just serial #'d cards. What they do is print another one, re-stamp the number and then sent me a couple other things to make up for it. Sometimes they're some really sweet rare autos and sometimes they're some crappy serial numbered card. Normally what they do is send out old redemption cards that haven't been claimed by the time the time period expired. But, on some forums that I'm on, I've heard several stories about people returning rare game used items due to damage and they have gotten some interesting things in return. I don't remember if they got their original card back or not.

In your case, with a rare patch card like that, I'd definitely work out all the details on the phone before you send it in. It's possible that they do something nice for you or they might give you the line about how it never says on there that it was worn in the 1976 pro bowl, so it's too bad for you.... you'll have to check it out.

[Eric]

Here's a photo of the rear of the card...
20663

I wonder if the item cut up for this card was this Tarkenton jersey that was sold at least twice before and came with a letter from Lampson, Bushing and Knoll at SCD Authentic

Here's a listing from 2003
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:RD8zgPGippQJ:www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/sporting-memorabilia-fran-tarkenton-pro-bowl-1-c-cvne1shfx3+%22fran+tarkenton%22+lampson+jersey&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

Here's a Hunt Auction listing from August 19 and 20, 2005
http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=23&lot_num=236&lot_qual=
20664

Interesting to note the font of the #1s are different. The one on the card goes horizontally, while the SCD Authentic one slopes down. (Not sure if this is supposed to be the jersey in the pic)

[RKO18]

Here's a photo of the rear of the card...
23931

I wonder if the item cut up for this card was this Tarkenton jersey that was sold at least twice before and came with a letter from Lampson, Bushing and Knoll at SCD Authentic

Here's a listing from 2003
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:RD8zgPGippQJ:www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/sporting-memorabilia-fran-tarkenton-pro-bowl-1-c-cvne1shfx3+%22fran+tarkenton%22+lampson+jersey&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

Here's a Hunt Auction listing from August 19 and 20, 2005
http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=23&lot_num=236&lot_qual=
23932

Interesting to note the font of the #1s are different. The one on the card goes horizontally, while the SCD Authentic one slopes down. (Not sure if this is supposed to be the jersey in the pic)

Thank you very much Eric, that was quite a bit of research their and does clear up a lot. It does (to an extent) restore my faith in the authenticity of the item. It does appear as if Tarkenton might be the only HOF'er in this Pro Bowl jersey set, if they were including bogus swatches, why not do so for more players?

I still have an issue with the 1976 being stated on the front, as well as the Vikings logo in the back. Clearly if this is real, it much have come from a Pro Bowl jersey he wore during his Giants days. Therefore, including 1976 and the Vikings logo seems to be a bit misleading while the statement of saying it was from an official Pro Bowl game (without specifying the year) does seem to be more legit.

A very curious situation indeed but I suppose it's a heck of a lot better than getting a swatch that wouldn't fit the style, design, or color of any jersey Tarkenton might have worn.

Now I ask this of you Eric, what do you think about this card? Do you think that it is the real-deal that was produced with a poor date or do you think their might be more to be concerned about?

[RKO18]

I just now realized that clicking on the images in the link posted earlier in the thread would display the back of the card.

I'm disturbed by the Jamal Lewis nameplate cards. The back of those cards say that the jersey was from one that Lewis wore in an official ProBowl game where clearly, those nameplate patches game from an exclusive Ravens jersey.

This would worry me a lot if I had that card, but the question is...does their mistake with the Lewis cards in the set bring fourth a cause for concern regarding other cards in the set, let's say...the Fran Tarkenton card?

[both-teams-played-hard]

It does (to an extent) restore my faith in the authenticity of the item.

Sir? Who? What? When? Where? How?
The photo of Fran on the card shows the '71 Pro Bowl Game. The earlier posted news article verifies the '71 game as the only game he played. The Jersey posted by Eric and the photo of Fran on the card are not the same jersey. Different fonts on the "1"s.
My teeth are beginning to hurt, so will someone explain what I'm missing?

[suave1477]

Sir? Who? What? When? Where? How?
The photo of Fran on the card shows the '71 Pro Bowl Game. The earlier posted news article verifies the '71 game as the only game he played. The Jersey posted by Eric and the photo of Fran on the card are not the same jersey. Different fonts on the "1"s.
My teeth are beginning to hurt, so will someone explain what I'm missing?

I would have to agree with Both Teams. I am not sure how your faith is restored? If it came from the Jersey that was LOA'd by Lampson that's a whole ball of wax in itself.

Eric also points out difference's in 2 possible Jerseys.

I am not saying it is good or bad, but this definteily needs to be looked into further or just kindly request your money back with all the question marks on this piece.

Just my opinion!!

[trsent]

Sir? Who? What? When? Where? How?
The photo of Fran on the card shows the '71 Pro Bowl Game. The earlier posted news article verifies the '71 game as the only game he played. The Jersey posted by Eric and the photo of Fran on the card are not the same jersey. Different fonts on the "1"s.
My teeth are beginning to hurt, so will someone explain what I'm missing?

They make something to put in your mouth to help with your grinding teeth issues.

[RKO18]

Sir? Who? What? When? Where? How?
The photo of Fran on the card shows the '71 Pro Bowl Game. The earlier posted news article verifies the '71 game as the only game he played. The Jersey posted by Eric and the photo of Fran on the card are not the same jersey. Different fonts on the "1"s.
My teeth are beginning to hurt, so will someone explain what I'm missing?

What helped partially restore my faith was the fact that the back of the card did not say that it was from the 1976 Pro Bowl, if that were the case, it would be even more of a blatant mistake. not to say that the 1976 on the front of the card isn't, but the fact that the back doesn't specify exactly which Pro Bowl its from makes it more likely to have been from the 1971 Pro Bowl.

Regarding the Jersey Eric posted, I'm not so certain that the front and back don't have different fonts but to be honest, I don't know. Nor do we have any way of knowing that the exact jersey found was actually used for the card.

[RKO18]

Breaking News:

We better hope that the jersey Eric found was not the one used for the card because I found another picture of Tarkenton from the 1971 Pro Bowl...

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r304/a1988smackdown/pro.jpg

I had to look under "1971 Pro Bowl" instead of "Fran Tarkenton Pro Bowl". Now, do we know the date when the auction ended in 2005?

[RKO18]

Also, this is another player from the exact same game. Do the numbers on his jersey look screen-printed or sewn on?

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r304/a1988smackdown/80290784.jpg