Lou Lampson Question

[NEFAN]

I know you have to take anything authenticated by him with a grain of salt. Question is, was his reputation always what it is today? When did it first come in to question?

I got an LOA dated 2004 with a game used football that was just a piece of papaer typed with his signature on it.

Any thoughts? I'm not trying to start a bash Lou Lampson thread, I'm genuously curious.

Thanks, Kevin

[trsent]

I know you have to take anything authenticated by him with a grain of salt. Question is, was his reputation always what it is today? When did it first come in to question?

I got an LOA dated 2004 with a game used football that was just a piece of papaer typed with his signature on it.

Any thoughts? I'm not trying to start a bash Lou Lampson thread, I'm genuously curious.

Thanks, Kevin

Kevin, though I personally have never met Lou Lampson (that I remember) he did go to school here in my hometown and he used to work for The Chicago Bears from what I have been told. Maybe he came to my store, but I have no memories of him.

Now, on this forum you will hear that he is a criminal. I do not believe this to be true. I believe he writes letter of opinions on many questionable items, but I do not believe that he is internationally committing fraud as many would lead you to believe.

I do believe he needs to do more research, but I would bet his view is he is giving an opinion on an item and maybe he feels he can do with without offering enough research to make everyone happy. An opinion doesn't need to be photo-matched, style matched, manufacture matched, etc., but I would think with the high dollar items being authenticated - Lou Lampson would use these formats.

Now, every auction house I have talked to about Lou Lampson tells me what a great guy he is. How he is very nice and pleasant. They also trust his opinions.

I will venture that Lou Lampson will look at an item, decide if he likes it or not and then writes a letter. This was the method of authenticating used before there was this modern concept called The World Wide Web, but these days too much information is known for people to authenticate from pure opinions.

[Eric]

He repeatedly makes up "facts" which makes him either a liar or an idiot. Your choice.

[buc]

He repeatedly makes up "facts" which makes him either a liar or an idiot. Your choice.


After a comment like that, maybe you should ban yourself. I've PERSONALLY had items that Mr. Lampson has turned down that I thought were real. As Joel said, he is giving his opinion. If you want more than an opinion, you can do your own homework.

[otismalibu]

As Joel said, he is giving his opinion. If you want more than an opinion, you can do your own homework.

So we could basically substitute the word "guess" for "opinion".

If you want more than a guess, you can do your own homework.

[Ozric]

Geez... How good is a freakin opinion when the authenticator does not even use the tools available to him. The truth is a couple of provocateurs here continually defend the guy while the majority of the board understands his lack of research. But hey, auction houses love him. I wonder why...

[b.heagy]

After a comment like that, maybe you should ban yourself. I've PERSONALLY had items that Mr. Lampson has turned down that I thought were real. As Joel said, he is giving his opinion. If you want more than an opinion, you can do your own homework.


Interesting. I have never met the man either. I am curious though. In your opinion on a scale of 1 to 10 - 1 being worst and 10 being the best, where do you personally place Lou Lampson ? From what I have read on this forum and the evidence to back it up I do not feel comfortable buying an item based on HIS OPINION.

[mr.miracle]

After a comment like that, maybe you should ban yourself. I've PERSONALLY had items that Mr. Lampson has turned down that I thought were real. As Joel said, he is giving his opinion. If you want more than an opinion, you can do your own homework.

As a former Financial Advisor, I was ultimately always giving my opinion on investments unless of course it was related to factual issues such as setting up trusts, language in wills, college planning structure etc. However if the "opinion" can be construed as complete gross negligance which if you have read the countless horrific examples that Lou has been paid very well over the years to authenticate, and have later been proven completely erroneous, then Eric is spot on. If I would have done what Lou has done, I rightly should have been jailed. People work very hard for their money and if he can go to sleep at night not even trying but still collecting a check while people write checks for tens of thousands of dollars based on his so called expert work, it is a sad testament to this industry. That man should have been put out of business years ago and the people that continue to defend him obviously do not have a clue.

[buc]

Interesting. I have never met the man either. I am curious though. In your opinion on a scale of 1 to 10 - 1 being worst and 10 being the best, where do you personally place Lou Lampson ? From what I have read on this forum and the evidence to back it up I do not feel comfortable buying an item based on HIS OPINION.


I would say 5. My point was if any of us were to make the post that Eric made, we would be banned. Lou Lampson gives an opinion. MEARS gives an opinion. JSA/PSA/insert authenticator here give opinions. I should have known if I said anything that goes against the grain here I would be questioned. Some of you who post on here are NEVER wrong, and God forbid if you were, you would never admit it. But, the truly funny thing I see is that some of you who post on here and throw around your weight have sold Lampson authenticated items recently that were purchased from AMI and other auction houses. That one cracks me up.

[mr.miracle]

I would say 5. My point was if any of us were to make the post that Eric made, we would be banned. Lou Lampson gives an opinion. MEARS gives an opinion. JSA/PSA/insert authenticator here give opinions. I should have known if I said anything that goes against the grain here I would be questioned. Some of you who post on here are NEVER wrong, and God forbid if you were, you would never admit it. But, the truly funny thing I see is that some of you who post on here and throw around your weight have sold Lampson authenticated items recently that were purchased from AMI and other auction houses. That one cracks me up.

I don't know about anybody else, but in my twenty plus years of collecting, I have never once in my entire life purchased a Lou Lampson authenticated item. I truly believe this man is either a crook or a fraud or both and in any case, when I see anything with an LOA from him I literally run the other way. I would never ever buy anything authenticated by Lampson and I don't care if the item came with five other LOA's. I will not support in any way shape or form the fraud that this man perpetrates. If anybody else feels comfortable wasting their money and helping this man stay in business, then by all means be my guest.

On an unrelated note, I feel fully comfident that he would have authenticated my Ripken helmet 100% authentic. That would be of course if I felt like passing off something as 100% legit when there are serious questions about it.

[mr.miracle]

On a side note, to all the Lampson supporters out there, perhaps I should reopen shop as a Financial Advisor. My plan would be to offer any and all financial products as long as they paid me a very handsome commission or I would charge a flat managed fee and then do little or no research on anything that I was recommending including failing to keep current with ever changing tax law, estate planning law etc. I would provide completely inept advise and I am guessing based on Mr. Lampson's advocates you would all gladly come see me for service and not think twice.

So, that being said, who is ready to sign up as my first client? I think perhaps I might have found a really good way to make some serious money. Now, if only the SEC does not come knocking.

[both-teams-played-hard]

There was a link to an eBay auction a few months ago. It was a St. Louis Blues
practice jersey with a Lampson LOA. The jersey was a Sandow durene, size small, store bought that would have fit snuggly on a fifth grader. My opinion is someone paid money for L.L.'s opinion. The jersey was not a fake that was doctored to be a legitimate Blues practice jersey. It was a kid's retail jersey that looked exactly like a kid's retail jersey.
Lampson may very well be a nice guy. However, being a nice guy doesn't pay the rent.
Lampson's "opinions" are messing it up for everyone else's "facts".
If Lampson wrote complimentary letters of opinion, without a charge, it would still be a rip-off.

The following is a very short documentary that was shot by a concerned forum member and edited by the production crew at both-teams-played-hard:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/both-teams-played-hard/th_lampsonfire.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v704/both-teams-played-hard/?action=view&current=lampsonfire.flv)

[sportscentury]

I would say 5. My point was if any of us were to make the post that Eric made, we would be banned. Lou Lampson gives an opinion. MEARS gives an opinion. JSA/PSA/insert authenticator here give opinions. I should have known if I said anything that goes against the grain here I would be questioned. Some of you who post on here are NEVER wrong, and God forbid if you were, you would never admit it. But, the truly funny thing I see is that some of you who post on here and throw around your weight have sold Lampson authenticated items recently that were purchased from AMI and other auction houses. That one cracks me up.

Wow. I've been a member of this forum for several years now, and I must say that this is exactly the opposite of my observations. You nearly need to commit mass murder on here to be banned. Eric and Chris (and Rob and Mike) give everyone second and third chances and are actually incredibly understanding and forgiving. My sense is that they have gone to considerable lengths to provide an open setting for real discourse to take place. In fact, it is not even often that one sees a post edited or a thread locked, never mind a member banned. Not trying to pick an argument with you, as you are entitled to your perception and I respect it. I was just very surprised to read this.

As for Eric's original post about Lou, I actually thought it was terribly polite!

.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Lampson's Theme Song:

LampsonSong.wav (http://www.upload-mp3.com/files/27336_rpc1r/benhill.wav)

[buc]

Wow. I've been a member of this forum for several years now, and I must say that this is exactly the opposite of my observations. You nearly need to commit mass murder on here to be banned. Eric and Chris (and Rob and Mike) give everyone second and third chances and are actually incredibly understanding and forgiving. My sense is that they have gone to considerable lengths to provide an open setting for real discourse to take place. In fact, it is not even often that one sees a post edited or a thread locked, never mind a member banned. Not trying to pick an argument with you, as you are entitled to your perception and I respect it. I was just very surprised to read this.

As for Eric's original post about Lou, I actually thought it was terribly polite!

.


You are probably correct, and if I could go back and edit the "banned" comment I would. It just makes me sick that I see all the bashing of individuals on here, then I turn around and see certain posters selling their Lampson authenticated items. Not that I have a problem with that...I have a problem that they bash him on here until it is financially convenient for them to show their item has been authenticated.

Eric, I do apologize for the comment.

[Eric]

After a comment like that, maybe you should ban yourself. I've PERSONALLY had items that Mr. Lampson has turned down that I thought were real. As Joel said, he is giving his opinion. If you want more than an opinion, you can do your own homework.

No need to apologize.

Mr. Lampson has authenticated item after item in every sport- from helmets to jock straps. He himself admitted in the Chris Nerat interviews on youtube "people that ask you to do something, they don't want to pay you if you turn it down.."

"i wish when you get the chance to do it you could spend more time, unfortunately you don't..."

Oh, and you can't hide behind that "It's just an opinion" crap when the companies he is authenticating for trumpet you in the following way "Lou Lampson is considered by collectors, ex-athletes, and equipment managers, alike as the foremost authority and analyst in the field."

They're telling you he's an expert.

The end result is- his mistakes cost people their hard earned money and he doesn't even bother to make himself accessible for questions about his findings.

I removed a line here because it may have been too harsh. I'll just say it used the words "liar" "cheat" and "coward."

[allstarsplus]

The following is a very short documentary that was shot by a concerned forum member and edited by the production crew at both-teams-played-hard:


I am still laughing about your video. I have 100's of game used items and only 1 that came with a Lampson LOA which I disposed of.

I also appreciated Eric's candid comments.


The end result is- his mistakes cost people their hard earned money and he doesn't even bother to make himself accessible for questions about his findings.


One day maybe we will see justice.

[sportscentury]

You are probably correct, and if I could go back and edit the "banned" comment I would. It just makes me sick that I see all the bashing of individuals on here, then I turn around and see certain posters selling their Lampson authenticated items. Not that I have a problem with that...I have a problem that they bash him on here until it is financially convenient for them to show their item has been authenticated.

Eric, I do apologize for the comment.

Fair enough - I understand your point. Have a good evening.

.

[trsent]

He repeatedly makes up "facts" which makes him either a liar or an idiot. Your choice.

Eric - Do you think the major auction houses are accepting consignments that they know have issues and ask Lou Lampson to authenticate it knowing of these issues? I just don't see that happening. I personally believe that Lou Lampson looks at an item and then doesn't do modern, 2009 World Wide Web (or MEARS) style of authentication.

I believe, from stories I have heard from former auction house employees who have worked with Lou Lampson, that he looks at items and makes an opinion. I wish he would respond to our concerns, but he is very mysterious.

People bring up items he has written letters of opinion for that major issues were found with his opinion. This is scary that it continues, but I do not know if giving an opinion is illegal.

I wish the man would use more modern approaches myself but I do not buy anything authenticated by him unless I do my personal homework.


Geez... How good is a freakin opinion when the authenticator does not even use the tools available to him. The truth is a couple of provocateurs here continually defend the guy while the majority of the board understands his lack of research. But hey, auction houses love him. I wonder why...

It is pretty odd with all the questionable opinions found that any auction house would continue to use his service but I guess he is the only one they can afford?


I don't know about anybody else, but in my twenty plus years of collecting, I have never once in my entire life purchased a Lou Lampson authenticated item. I truly believe this man is either a crook or a fraud or both and in any case, when I see anything with an LOA from him I literally run the other way. I would never ever buy anything authenticated by Lampson and I don't care if the item came with five other LOA's. I will not support in any way shape or form the fraud that this man perpetrates. If anybody else feels comfortable wasting their money and helping this man stay in business, then by all means be my guest.

On an unrelated note, I feel fully comfident that he would have authenticated my Ripken helmet 100% authentic. That would be of course if I felt like passing off something as 100% legit when there are serious questions about it.

This post shows my original point - Lots of name calling and possibly deserved - But never proved that he is a "crook" or a "fraud" as I do not believe he is being paid to authenticate items he is told are bad as genuine - From everyone I have ever talked to who has worked with him - He is just giving an opinion of items presented to him.

I do not believe time to inspect items properly is taking place, but I do not believe all the mysterious "Authenticate my fake item and I will pay you" deals are taking place in these situations.

[Eric]

Eric - Do you think the major auction houses are accepting consignments that they know have issues and ask Lou Lampson to authenticate it knowing of these issues?

I have no way of knowing that.

What I do know is, it's a convenient system. They advertise using the "foremost authentication expert in the hobby," then list items as "game used" and then institute and all sales final rule.

And the person offering the opinion isn't even using common sense. That's how two Lou Lampson authenticated one-of-a-kind John Elway throwback jerseys get authenticated by the same man and are run in different auctions simultaneously.

How do you think auction houses would so sales-wise if they made it clear that their authenticator was just offering his opinion, many times he is rushed and cannot research every item thoroughly and because of that items may or may not be as listed in the auction catalog. Obviously no business would run that way, but that is one extreme and the auction houses are actually running at the other extreme. Declaring things are "the finest example ever seen" etc. That's more than an opinion. That's a definitive statement by an expert.

They say "If you're not comfortable, don't bid." What people who are new to the hobby might not realize is, to be comfortable means you have to ignore the auction description completely and do all homework from scratch. You and I know that, but does the buyer looking to spend money he or she has saved some something special?

[bigtime59]

I have bought a couple of "Lampson-authenticated" items in spite of his "authentication" (I recognized the Bluefield Orioles jerseys he "authenticated" as Baltimore Orioles jerseys for what they actually were).
I also have one item in the collection that is "Lampson-authenticated" that I now strongly suspect is fake, or at least over patched. Oh, well. Live and learn.