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skyking26
04-18-2009, 07:52 PM
Hmmm. 22-4 Indians. Great that the Yanks went out and got CC Sabathia (lost 2 starts I think now?) and Mark Tex. (.194 thru today, and that was after hitting a homer). Nice to know that money was well spent...

Outdoing all the other teams for players sure is paying off for NY. :rolleyes:

Mauer7
04-18-2009, 08:13 PM
Dude, we are 10 games into a 162 game season. Is this a serious post?

Yankwood
04-18-2009, 08:17 PM
Dude, we are 10 games into a 162 game season. Is this a serious post?Relax, of course he's serious. Yankee haters have been taking premature potshots for over 30 years now. I'm used to it. In fact, it's become boring.

mr.miracle
04-18-2009, 08:21 PM
Dude, we are 10 games into a 162 game season. Is this a serious post?

This is true however the Yankees might be in some measure of trouble given the fact that Wang is getting absolutely rocked during every outing. I am guessing that the Yankees were counting on a very strong rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, Chamberlain and Pettite. Obviously, Wang is not fully recovered as he cannot spot his pitches and looks like he is pitching batting practice. If he cannot get it together, everyone has to step up. The Yankees greatest weakness has been their pitching or lack thereof over the past five to seven years. You remove a healthy solid Wang from that rotation and they have to find a way to replace 18 - 20 wins or at least that would have been the expectation from him based on historical performances.

Ozric
04-18-2009, 08:22 PM
Relax, of course he's serious. Yankee haters have been taking premature potshots for over 30 years now. I'm used to it. In fact, it's become boring.

Nah.... Boring is how bad you guys have been for what... 10 years now and you still think you can win. Anything less than a world series win every single year for that amount a payroll is a disgrace.

mr.miracle
04-18-2009, 08:32 PM
Nah.... Boring is how bad you guys have been for what... 10 years now and you still think you can win. Anything less than a world series win every single year for that amount a payroll is a disgrace.

I was attempting to be a bit more kind but actually that is true. In any other sport, if for instance my favorite team the Lakers could go out and double, triple, quadruple the payroll of virtually every team who thinks that they would not lock up the NBA title every year. You could put an all-star team on the floor at every position. Same thing in the NFL granted injuries could play a huge part there as well, but the Yankees have not done a good job managing that payroll. My five year old nephew could do a better job managing that payroll. Great signings/trades like Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Randy Johnson, Jason Giambi, even Damon have not exactly worked in their favor.

encinorick
04-18-2009, 09:00 PM
And what is the common denominator in all this?

Scott Boras.

He's death to any team. And if they are stupid enough to give into him, then they deserve what they get.

The Yankees will be fighting for last place with Boston in the East and the "new curse of the Babe" will become known, that the Yankees will never win another World Series in their new billion dollar stadium, "the House that Ruth didn't build!"

Dodger vs. Jays in World Series, Dodgers win in six. :D

markize
04-18-2009, 09:09 PM
This is true however the Yankees might be in some measure of trouble given the fact that Wang is getting absolutely rocked during every outing. I am guessing that the Yankees were counting on a very strong rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, Chamberlain and Pettite. Obviously, Wang is not fully recovered as he cannot spot his pitches and looks like he is pitching batting practice. If he cannot get it together, everyone has to step up. The Yankees greatest weakness has been their pitching or lack thereof over the past five to seven years. You remove a healthy solid Wang from that rotation and they have to find a way to replace 18 - 20 wins or at least that would have been the expectation from him based on historical performances.

I think Wang will get it together, but I think Joba is a bigger concern. I'm still not convinced he is a starter. His fastball has no movement, and his speed is not what it used to be. He's probably better off as a setup guy who will move into the closer roll. This way he an come in fresh, and try to overpower batters. You are right, though, the rotation is struggling.

I still love 'em though- GO YANKEES!!

Mark

mr.miracle
04-18-2009, 09:19 PM
I think Wang will get it together, but I think Joba is a bigger concern. I'm still not convinced he is a starter. His fastball has no movement, and his speed is not what it used to be. He's probably better off as a setup guy who will move into the closer roll. This way he an come in fresh, and try to overpower batters. You are right, though, the rotation is struggling.

I still love 'em though- GO YANKEES!!

Mark

Mark, great points, I am not a Yankees fan but I will say that I would give up on Chamberlain as a starter and do exactly what you are saying. Kind of like Rivera for Wetteland years ago. Since Mariano probably only has two or so good years left, this would be a perfect opportunity to get Joba the time he needs in a role that he was lights out in and then move him over as the closer once Rivera is done. Sure you lose him as a starter but they need to take advantage of the strength that they have there. In a one or so inning situation, that guy is lights out.

The other question is, do either Hughes or Kennedy ever pan out to anything and if not, are the Yankees kicking themselves for not pulling the trigger on that Santana trade with the Twins several years back.

Vintagedeputy
04-18-2009, 09:21 PM
Wang was fine until the HR to Choo. He just got shook up. No worries. 10 games in does not a panic attack make.

mr.miracle
04-18-2009, 09:26 PM
Wang was fine until the HR to Choo. He just got shook up. No worries. 10 games in does not a panic attack make.

Uhhh Vintage, don't take this the wrong way, but the guy has pitched six innings in three starts this year, has given up 23 runs on 23 hits and currently has a 34.50 era. I don't know about anyone else, but I would be sounding the alarm for any pitcher at this point. This is bording on disaster for a pitcher that was the ace of the staff as recently as two years ago and starting last season.

stkmtimo
04-18-2009, 11:59 PM
We need Phil Hughes as 5th starter. Put Joba back into the bullpen. They'll be fine...there's plenty of baseball left to be played.

Tim

bigtime59
04-19-2009, 10:03 AM
I know it's early yet, small sample size, blah blah blah...but the Yankee$ losing is always something that's going to make my day.
Brian Ca$hman might be the worst GM in baseball. He has more money to play with than any other GM, and this is the best he can do? Nearly half a billion dollars committed to free agents last off season, and this is the best he can do?
And before the usual suspects can start their "oooh, but the Orioles suck worse than we do" chorus...take a look at the Orioles payroll vs the Yankee$. Then take a look at what's in the pitching pipeline for the Orioles vs the Yankee$. Then compare the two teams outfields. Then see if you can tell me with a straight face that you'd rather be the Yankee$ than the Orioles...in any respect other than revenues.
Yeah, our starters mostly suck, just like yours do. But we have about $75 invested in each of 'em, so that when the time comes to kick 'em to the curb, it's not going to hurt much.
Tha Yankee$ lose...tha Yankee$ lose...tha Yankee$ lose...and the giant freakin' lounge chairs in the uber-expensive seats are already empty.
Sweet. Glorious, beautiful and sweet.
:D :D :D :D :D

skyking26
04-19-2009, 10:26 AM
I know it's early yet, small sample size, blah blah blah...but the Yankee$ losing is always something that's going to make my day.
Brian Ca$hman might be the worst GM in baseball. He has more money to play with than any other GM, and this is the best he can do? Nearly half a billion dollars committed to free agents last off season, and this is the best he can do?
And before the usual suspects can start their "oooh, but the Orioles suck worse than we do" chorus...take a look at the Orioles payroll vs the Yankee$. Then take a look at what's in the pitching pipeline for the Orioles vs the Yankee$. Then compare the two teams outfields. Then see if you can tell me with a straight face that you'd rather be the Yankee$ than the Orioles...in any respect other than revenues.
Yeah, our starters mostly suck, just like yours do. But we have about $75 invested in each of 'em, so that when the time comes to kick 'em to the curb, it's not going to hurt much.
Tha Yankee$ lose...tha Yankee$ lose...tha Yankee$ lose...and the giant freakin' lounge chairs in the uber-expensive seats are already empty.
Sweet. Glorious, beautiful and sweet.
:D :D :D :D :D
Man, you're singing is music to my ears. I agree 100%. They go out and blow tons of $$ on Sabathia and Tex, who are choking some now. Early or not, when you get paid what these guys do...you are expected to produce. The Yankees are shoved down everyone's throat as the be all in professional sports. It's a quick lesson to my little leaguer's...$$ doesn't buy everything.

I'm painfully reminded of that when I watched my mother die for 2 years. That was a lesson for my dad unfortunately...:(

yanks12025
04-19-2009, 10:37 AM
How are they choking. Tex will be alot better when he has a-rod batting behind him, so he gets better pitches.

yanks12025
04-19-2009, 10:43 AM
To you guys what is the definition of buying players. Becuase if you look at the Yankees roster to the Rays roster, the yankees have MORE home-grown players then them.

stkmtimo
04-19-2009, 01:13 PM
Then take a look at what's in the pitching pipeline for the Orioles vs the Yankee$. Then compare the two teams outfields. Then see if you can tell me with a straight face that you'd rather be the Yankee$ than the Orioles...in any respect other than revenues.

Sure, I'll take a look at the pitching pipelines. The Yankees have Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Andrew Brackman, Mark Melancon and Dellin Betances. I would compare Hughes favorably with Matusz/Arrieta in the Orioles system and say that there is more pitching depth in the Yankees' farm system than in the Orioles'.

Comparing the outfields? Sure, the Orioles have a very talented and young outfield but that really doesn't mean all that much - you would do a lot better to compare the offensive lineup as a whole. Once A-Rod is back, there's no contest as to which team will have the better offense.

I can tell you with a straight face that I would rather be the Yankees than the Orioles. At least George Steinbrenner is willing to put up the money to create a successful team. There's plenty of baseball left to be played. We'll see who's there in the end.

Tim

mr.miracle
04-19-2009, 01:35 PM
Sure, I'll take a look at the pitching pipelines. The Yankees have Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Andrew Brackman, Mark Melancon and Dellin Betances. I would compare Hughes favorably with Matusz/Arrieta in the Orioles system and say that there is more pitching depth in the Yankees' farm system than in the Orioles'.

Comparing the outfields? Sure, the Orioles have a very talented and young outfield but that really doesn't mean all that much - you would do a lot better to compare the offensive lineup as a whole. Once A-Rod is back, there's no contest as to which team will have the better offense.

I can tell you with a straight face that I would rather be the Yankees than the Orioles. At least George Steinbrenner is willing to put up the money to create a successful team. There's plenty of baseball left to be played. We'll see who's there in the end.

Tim

But Tim, that is the point and the whole problem. With the money you guys are able to spend you should be there in the end every single year. It is ridiculous that anybody should be able to compete with the Yankees given the structure that they have to work with. Again, I don't blame the Yankees, if you can get away with it then who wouldn't. If the Yankees did not throw all that money they are making back into the team, wouldn't all the Yankee fans come unglued if it was simply lining Stinebrenners pockets every year. The point is, the system is broken and until it gets fixed this arguement will go on and on.

The Yankees are really in a no win situation. Spend all the money you can as they do and the expectation is that that should and will win every year. Anything less than a World Series title is a failure. Yet people who are reasonable and see this stupidity for what it is will continue to lambast MLB for a flawed and failed system as should anyone even Yankee fans. I have said this before, If my favorite team the Lakers could outspend the entire league and balloon their payroll to $200 million when everyone else is spending 65 million, boy wouldn't I be real proud if they could field the NBA all-star team at every position and beat the holy crap out of teams night in and night out. Yipee, what an accomplishment. Kind of like the Dream Team became, the expectation is that you demolish everyone and anything less is complete failure. The opposite end of the spectrum is that they line their pockets with all that cash and piss off the fan base instead of dumping the money back into the team. Given Cashman and the Yankee braintrusts inability to win with a $200 million payroll god forbid they would have to compete with $75 million. Would this team even win 65 games consistently?

I am not a fan of some of these teams so I don't have a dog in the fight, but given the current payroll situation in MLB, will we ever see the Royals, Brewers, Orioles, Blue Jays, Mariners, Pirates, Reds, and I am sure I am missing a few teams in the mix consistenly or even making the playoffs again ever??? Yeah, the Rays did it last year but I am interested in seeing a five year window. My guess is this team is either one and done or maybe two years and that is about it. Long term, they don't stand a chance against the Yankees and Red Sox who just keep reloading year after year after year. That is why this system is flawed garbage.

yanks12025
04-19-2009, 01:40 PM
Well the yankees have to sign players because they can't get number one draft picks every year like the Rays did(need to come in last many years). Thats why they were able to put a good team out there.

Fnazxc0114
04-19-2009, 01:45 PM
yanks maybe you should take a look at some of the ball players taken later in the draft. they were still getting picks in the first round just not as early. i would say that there have been just as many first round flops as there has been late round super stars.

mr.miracle
04-19-2009, 01:48 PM
Sure, I'll take a look at the pitching pipelines. The Yankees have Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Andrew Brackman, Mark Melancon and Dellin Betances. I would compare Hughes favorably with Matusz/Arrieta in the Orioles system and say that there is more pitching depth in the Yankees' farm system than in the Orioles'.

Comparing the outfields? Sure, the Orioles have a very talented and young outfield but that really doesn't mean all that much - you would do a lot better to compare the offensive lineup as a whole. Once A-Rod is back, there's no contest as to which team will have the better offense.

I can tell you with a straight face that I would rather be the Yankees than the Orioles. At least George Steinbrenner is willing to put up the money to create a successful team. There's plenty of baseball left to be played. We'll see who's there in the end.

Tim


BTW, I know this is anything of an exact science by of the Baseball America top 100 rated prospects, the Orioles have three in the top 25 Wieters #1, Tillman #22, Matusz #25, Arrieta #67. The Yankees only Pitcher on the entire list is Brackman at #92. I think the baseball masses are beginning to quickly lose their patience with Kennedy and Hughes. Like I said earlier, would I as a Yankee fan rather have had Santana a couple of years back with instant lights out 18 - 20 wins or the possibility that either Hughes or Kennedy turns into something down the road. I would have made that trade in a heartbeat. As of right now, when it comes to pitching, I would take the Orioles minor leaguers easily given the inability of Hughes and Kennedy to get anybody out at the major league level. The other two guys on the Yankee list. I am sure their high school coach remembers their name the rest of America, not so sure.

mr.miracle
04-19-2009, 01:51 PM
Well the yankees have to sign players because they can't get number one draft picks every year like the Rays did(need to come in last many years). Thats why they were able to put a good team out there.

Fair enough but that guarentees nothing. I am an Orioles fan and for twenty years they would constantly have one of the top ten draft picks and due to absolutely incompetent scouting, drafting, ownership take your pick they keep missing the boat every single year. Their minor league system was an abject disaster until about three or four years ago and that was putting it mildly.

yanks12025
04-19-2009, 01:59 PM
I believe you missed acouple of the yankees top prospects that should be on that list, Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero.

mr.miracle
04-19-2009, 02:10 PM
I believe you missed acouple of the yankees top prospects that should be on that list, Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero.

You bet I sure did, Jackson is #36 & Montero #38. Aside from Wieters, I was mainly focusing on pitching however. Don't worry though, when it becomes apparent that one of the fab five don't work out, the Yanks will package a couple of these guys and trade them away if and this is a big IF they can find another really stupid contract say like the old Kevin Brown deal they took on to pick up. Quick everyone lets see what is the worst current deal out there for a MLB pitcher that the Yankees could pick up in a trade. Conditions they would be looking for would be a pitcher who is,
1. Constantly on the DL
2. A cancer in the clubhouse.
3. 40 years old or preferably 44 or above.
4. Has a salary of 18 million a year or above.
5. Has not won consistenly at the MLB level in at least five seasons.

Please submit all vialbe candidates to the attention of Brian Cashman immediately.

suicide_squeeze
04-19-2009, 02:31 PM
The Yankees problems were very predictable....

You could feel the massive tension before the year even started. The expectations from the "stupid money" signings were bound to set these guys on their ears. Too much pressure does not lead to victories.

Tex was never a clutch player, so I don't know how throwing a dung-heap of money in his lap was supposed to change that. But hey, if you're team is down by, say 5 runs, and there is one guy on and Tex is up......Wow, he can sure send a homer deep into the seats alright....:rolleyes:

And C.C reminded me of a good natured ball player, with Babe Ruth like tendancies....although far from his character and talent. Bath could hit a ball a country mile...it was exciting to watch this pitcher get his turn to bat.

So what does he do? He sells himself out to the highest paying AMERICAN LEAGUE team and loses many years of at-bats which would have surely produced a few all-time video clips to "wow!" the fans, all the while taking a lot of fun out of the game for himself. Couple that with the fact he's in the most butt-puckering uptight mess of an environment that "expects" wins, it's not condusive to promoting a winning cohesive clubhouse.

In short, the Yankees have a bunch of problems that sheer talent will overcome now and then, but in the end they fall short because this is not a team that will gel. A-Rod's return will lift them, but in the end, I believe this team will be the back-breaker in overpaid salaries, and it all starts to retreat from here. Having those empty seats behind home plate is sending a loud and clear message to the Steinbrenners. Financially, they never cared before. They do now.

Now they'll have no choice but to go back to the roots of baseball and develope within.


By the way.......HOW 'BOUT THOSE DODGERS!!!:)

stkmtimo
04-19-2009, 02:53 PM
BTW, I know this is anything of an exact science by of the Baseball America top 100 rated prospects, the Orioles have three in the top 25 Wieters #1, Tillman #22, Matusz #25, Arrieta #67. The Yankees only Pitcher on the entire list is Brackman at #92. I think the baseball masses are beginning to quickly lose their patience with Kennedy and Hughes. Like I said earlier, would I as a Yankee fan rather have had Santana a couple of years back with instant lights out 18 - 20 wins or the possibility that either Hughes or Kennedy turns into something down the road. I would have made that trade in a heartbeat. As of right now, when it comes to pitching, I would take the Orioles minor leaguers easily given the inability of Hughes and Kennedy to get anybody out at the major league level. The other two guys on the Yankee list. I am sure their high school coach remembers their name the rest of America, not so sure.

I will give you Kennedy, though he has been lights out again thus far in the minors. We'll see if his mechanical adjustments help should he return to the Majors. However, there is NO way that the top brass has lost patience with Hughes. He is a stud pitcher and a future ace. It's unbelievable that you could say that Hughes was unable to get anyone out at the Major League level - in 2006 as a 19 year old, Hughes took 2 no hitters into the 6th and 8th innings before being injured in his second no hit bid. Last year he was also injured and therefore it's not really fair to use those numbers.

I'm not trying to downplay the Orioles' system, but I don't think it's fair to say that Yankees' cupboard is bare either, particularly since Hughes, Kennedy and Joba no longer qualify for the BA lists yet are all still "prospects" per say. I know that BA rankings don't correspond to Major League success but they do make for more ease in comparisons. By putting your Oriole prospects in the discussions, you have to mention the Yankees' Austin Jackson at #36 and Jesus Montero at #38, along with Andrew Brackman. Montero may have the best shot to be one of the Latin American position players to make an impact at the Major League level since he's likely Posada's successor should he stay at catcher.

Tim

yanks12025
04-19-2009, 03:00 PM
suicide,
One other team made a offer to CC and it was no where near what he wanted.

mr.miracle
04-19-2009, 03:09 PM
I will give you Kennedy, though he has been lights out again thus far in the minors. We'll see if his mechanical adjustments help should he return to the Majors. However, there is NO way that the top brass has lost patience with Hughes. He is a stud pitcher and a future ace. It's unbelievable that you could say that Hughes was unable to get anyone out at the Major League level - in 2006 as a 19 year old, Hughes took 2 no hitters into the 6th and 8th innings before being injured in his second no hit bid. Last year he was also injured and therefore it's not really fair to use those numbers.

I'm not trying to downplay the Orioles' system, but I don't think it's fair to say that Yankees' cupboard is bare either, particularly since Hughes, Kennedy and Joba no longer qualify for the BA lists yet are all still "prospects" per say. I know that BA rankings don't correspond to Major League success but they do make for more ease in comparisons. By putting your Oriole prospects in the discussions, you have to mention the Yankees' Austin Jackson at #36 and Jesus Montero at #38, along with Andrew Brackman. Montero may have the best shot to be one of the Latin American position players to make an impact at the Major League level since he's likely Posada's successor should he stay at catcher.

Tim

Tim, the piont is, that the Yankees weakness has been pitching depth the last ten years. That is why they are not consistently winning. Great pitching always beats great hitting. While their lineup has been loaded for the last 15 years, their pitching has been shaky at best. If I could have gotten Santana for Hughes and Kennedy I would have made that deal in a minute. Who cares about possible future success. How many minor league stars end up being major league busts. If I had a chance to pick up one of the top five pitchers in baseball two years ago for future prospects I would have pulled that trigger. Fans do not care about tomorrow they want results today. This is particularly true in New York. Even if Hughes and some of these other guys develop you are going to have a major problem in about two or three years when virtually every position player you have is well past their prime. Posada, Jeter, Matsui, AROD, Damon, are all aging quickly. You play to win now not tomorrow.

3arod13
04-19-2009, 05:24 PM
Won't be long before they're saying....HE'S BAAACCKK!
Yankees 3B Alex Rodriguez (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5275/;_ylt=AjDp9vbKAQpHI4npch7VYB24u7YF) (right hip surgery) took 75 swings and hit several long homers during his third consecutive day of batting practice in Florida. Rodriguez, expected to rejoin the team by May 15, also took grounders on the infield dirt for the first time and increased the intensity of his running program. …

markize
04-19-2009, 07:54 PM
Tim, the piont is, that the Yankees weakness has been pitching depth the last ten years. That is why they are not consistently winning. Great pitching always beats great hitting. While their lineup has been loaded for the last 15 years, their pitching has been shaky at best. If I could have gotten Santana for Hughes and Kennedy I would have made that deal in a minute. Who cares about possible future success. How many minor league stars end up being major league busts. If I had a chance to pick up one of the top five pitchers in baseball two years ago for future prospects I would have pulled that trigger. Fans do not care about tomorrow they want results today. This is particularly true in New York. Even if Hughes and some of these other guys develop you are going to have a major problem in about two or three years when virtually every position player you have is well past their prime. Posada, Jeter, Matsui, AROD, Damon, are all aging quickly. You play to win now not tomorrow.

brett,

i was with you the whole way till you got to the final sentence hi-lighted in bold and then you crapped all over your own points. why bother talking about prospects, and farm systems, and ragging on what the Yankees pay their players? the point of a farm system is to develop players for TOMORROW, right? the Yankees are trying to win TODAY, by paying for players they feel can help them NOW. I agree Wieters looks to be a great player of the FUTURE, but he hasnt played a single game yet, so how is he helping NOW?

mark

markize
04-19-2009, 08:14 PM
I know it's early yet, small sample size, blah blah blah...but the Yankee$ losing is always something that's going to make my day.
Brian Ca$hman might be the worst GM in baseball. He has more money to play with than any other GM, and this is the best he can do? Nearly half a billion dollars committed to free agents last off season, and this is the best he can do?
And before the usual suspects can start their "oooh, but the Orioles suck worse than we do" chorus...take a look at the Orioles payroll vs the Yankee$. Then take a look at what's in the pitching pipeline for the Orioles vs the Yankee$. Then compare the two teams outfields. Then see if you can tell me with a straight face that you'd rather be the Yankee$ than the Orioles...in any respect other than revenues.
Yeah, our starters mostly suck, just like yours do. But we have about $75 invested in each of 'em, so that when the time comes to kick 'em to the curb, it's not going to hurt much.
Tha Yankee$ lose...tha Yankee$ lose...tha Yankee$ lose...and the giant freakin' lounge chairs in the uber-expensive seats are already empty.
Sweet. Glorious, beautiful and sweet.
:D :D :D :D :D

mark,

yes, with a straight face, i would take the Yankees over the Borioles any day. here is a breakdown of the last 10 years that may help you out:

year team record games back
--------------------------------
1999 NYY 98-64 .605 0
1999 BAL 78-84 .481 20
--------------------------------
2000 NYY 87-74 .540 0
2000 BAL 74-88 .457 13.5
--------------------------------
2001 NYY 95-65 .594 0
2001 BAL 63-98 .391 32.5
-------------------------------
2002 NYY 103-58 .640 0
2002 BAL 67-95 .414 36.5
------------------------------
2003 NYY 101-61 .623 0
2003 BAL 71-91 .438 30
-------------------------------
2004 NYY 101-61 .623 0
2004 BAL 70-84 .481 23
-------------------------------
2005 NYY 95-67 .586 0
2005 BAL 74-88 .457 21
-------------------------------
2006 NYY 97-65 .599 0
2006 BAL 70-92 .432 27
-------------------------------
2007 NYY 94-68 .580 2
2007 BAL 69-93 .426 27
-------------------------------
2008 NYY 89-73 .549 8
2008 BAL 68-93 .422 28.5

ok, its a bit sloppy, but i think you get the point. the orioles have NOT played over .500 ball in the last 10 seasons. in that time, the yankees have won 8 division championships, and have won 2 of 4 WS titles. the highest win total by the orioles was 78, and they were still 20 games out of first. cry all you want about what the Yankees pay in salaries, but the comparison between the orioles and Yankees isnt even close.

let me ask one final question....mark, if you make $100,000 a year now, and had the chance to make $200,000 would you take it? i'm sure the answer is YES. so you fit right in with the Yankees! welcome home!!

mark

mr.miracle
04-19-2009, 08:20 PM
brett,

i was with you the whole way till you got to the final sentence hi-lighted in bold and then you crapped all over your own points. why bother talking about prospects, and farm systems, and ragging on what the Yankees pay their players? the point of a farm system is to develop players for TOMORROW, right? the Yankees are trying to win TODAY, by paying for players they feel can help them NOW. I agree Wieters looks to be a great player of the FUTURE, but he hasnt played a single game yet, so how is he helping NOW?

mark

Mark:

I don't rag on what the Yankees pay their players. In fact, if the Orioles were in a position to do what the Yankees do and did not do it I would be furious. That being said, I think the rules stink and MLB needs to do something about it. It is just like in any other sport. Jerry Jones makes infinitely more money as the Cowboys owner than the owners of the Seahawks but he cannot just go out and outspend the whole league in an effort to win the Super Bowl. That is how it should be and it should not be in the owners hands to police this it should be mandated by MLB.

My point is, if you are in a position to win now, you should go for it. The window normally quickly closes for every team. If I have prospects in the minors that I can trade today to bring in a player or two that might put me over the top to win today, I make that move in a second. I am not saying dump the whole farm to do this but one example is a difference maker like Santana that might have put the Yanks over the top.

You and I would probably disagree on How they are spending that money today but I don't fault them for taking advantage of a flawed system but the system needs changed.

markize
04-19-2009, 09:01 PM
Mark:

I don't rag on what the Yankees pay their players. In fact, if the Orioles were in a position to do what the Yankees do and did not do it I would be furious. That being said, I think the rules stink and MLB needs to do something about it. It is just like in any other sport. Jerry Jones makes infinitely more money as the Cowboys owner than the owners of the Seahawks but he cannot just go out and outspend the whole league in an effort to win the Super Bowl. That is how it should be and it should not be in the owners hands to police this it should be mandated by MLB.

My point is, if you are in a position to win now, you should go for it. The window normally quickly closes for every team. If I have prospects in the minors that I can trade today to bring in a player or two that might put me over the top to win today, I make that move in a second. I am not saying dump the whole farm to do this but one example is a difference maker like Santana that might have put the Yanks over the top.

You and I would probably disagree on How they are spending that money today but I don't fault them for taking advantage of a flawed system but the system needs changed.

Brett,

Actually, I would prefer they get more value from farm guys other than trade bait. I gave the example in another post about Shelley Duncan at first base instead of dropping buckets of $$ on Teixeira. To me, he has a big upside, and is a small hit on the payroll. I guess I just think the Yankees make the $$ and are spending the best way see it. Is the system flawed, maybe, but look at it from a game used perspective: should the amount of money you make exclude you from buying more (or higher priced gamers), or spending it on what you feel is best to your collection? It's the same with the Yankees, they take in more than other teams, and spend it on the best possible "gamers" they can. The irony is that, unlike many peoples ideas, money obviously doesn't buy championships. If it did, the Yankees would have a lot more than 26 WS rings. In the end, the game gets played on the field.

Mark

markize
04-19-2009, 09:05 PM
Mark:

I don't rag on what the Yankees pay their players. In fact, if the Orioles were in a position to do what the Yankees do and did not do it I would be furious. That being said, I think the rules stink and MLB needs to do something about it. It is just like in any other sport. Jerry Jones makes infinitely more money as the Cowboys owner than the owners of the Seahawks but he cannot just go out and outspend the whole league in an effort to win the Super Bowl. That is how it should be and it should not be in the owners hands to police this it should be mandated by MLB.

My point is, if you are in a position to win now, you should go for it. The window normally quickly closes for every team. If I have prospects in the minors that I can trade today to bring in a player or two that might put me over the top to win today, I make that move in a second. I am not saying dump the whole farm to do this but one example is a difference maker like Santana that might have put the Yanks over the top.

You and I would probably disagree on How they are spending that money today but I don't fault them for taking advantage of a flawed system but the system needs changed.

Brett,

By the way, I agree Santana could have been a great addition considering his success. Look at it from the flip side though, with the pressure the Yankees players are under, he could have folded like a deck of cards and been another high dollar bust.

Mark

bigtime59
04-20-2009, 09:16 AM
Nobody in their right mind would start a sports league today with MLB's 19th-century, Rube Goldberg revenue distribution system. Bud Selig has done quite a bit with making sure new sources of revenue (mlb.com, &c) are distributed equally between all the teams, but still hasn't tackled the immense revenue discrepancies between the Yankee$ and everybody else.
Things are better than they were, and some teams have begun to figure out how to work the system as it stands (especially the Red $ox, who aren't exactly cash-strapped, themselves), but one thing remains unchanged: MLB is a home to home race, and the Yankee$ get to start at third base every year.
I've often said that the only way they can lose is if their management is inept (CBS period) or borderline insane (most of $teinbrenner's reign).
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I for one am heartily sick of the New York Yankee$. Until the field is levelled, and they can no longer go out and just buy whatever the hell they want, they really should consider how they got most of their vaunted 26 World$ Champion$hips, and just shut the hell up, already.

bigtime59
04-20-2009, 09:17 AM
Won't be long before they're saying....HE'S BAAACCKK!
Yankees 3B Alex Rodriguez (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5275/;_ylt=AjDp9vbKAQpHI4npch7VYB24u7YF) (right hip surgery) took 75 swings and hit several long homers during his third consecutive day of batting practice in Florida. Rodriguez, expected to rejoin the team by May 15, also took grounders on the infield dirt for the first time and increased the intensity of his running program. …

Miss Pay-Roid is a choking dog. You will regret her presence on your team in any pressure situation. I highly doubt she will ever win the WS ring she covets so badly for her Hall of Fame application.

mr.miracle
04-20-2009, 11:18 AM
I guess I frankly just don't understand exactly what is to be proud of as a Yankees fan at least over the past ten years. The premise is that this team can double, triple, quadruple every other team payroll and win or not who care, how can you be excited by that. If any team in any other sport was able to outspend the competition by an average of 3 to 1, as a fan you would certainly expect your team to win every year and be the world champion. But at the end of the day, how excited can you really be? What a thrill, I will take my all-star team at 200 Mil and beat up your A's, Rays, Twins, Rangers, O's, Royals, Blue Jays, & Indians, all of which have payrolls that start at 62 million for 09 and run up to a whopping $81 mil for the Indians. Half the teams in the league have a payroll at or slightly above 1/3rd of the Yankees payroll. Big Time had it right, either you are that inept that you cannot win every year with that much of an advantage or the other teams that do compete, A's, Twins, Indians come to mind, have absolutely stretched every piece of talent out of that roster for what they are paying. Either way, I just don't see how anyone can be excited about leveling what should be an ass kicking to these teams year in and year out.

At the end of the day, I want my team to win on as much of a level playing field as they can have. I hate, let me say this again, hate the Boston Celtics. That being said, I am pissed that Garnett is out injured. I really, really, want to see the Lakers and Celtics in a rematch of last year that is if the Celts could get past the Cavs which is a big if. No Garnett means no Celts in the finals. I don't want to win because the other team is at a complete disadvanage. Maybe I am nuts, but what have you really accomplished under those circumstances. I was pissed last year when all the Celtic fans were sooooooo excited at beating a Lakers team with two starters out. Yipee, what an incredible accomplishment. Take two starters off any NBA team and I would venture to say they won't even make the playoffs much less win the title. I just cannot feel good when I am at such an advantage over the other team that I should win every time.

I always hear people say but the Yankees have not always won. Who cares, that is a you problem. You have everything handed to you to begin the season. If you can't make the right personnel moves to win the world series every year then that is a you problem. Not a valid excuse to make it right or the system at least somewhat level or fair.

3arod13
04-20-2009, 11:26 AM
Miss Pay-Roid is a choking dog. You will regret her presence on your team in any pressure situation. I highly doubt she will ever win the WS ring she covets so badly for her Hall of Fame application.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! The mind is a terrible thing to waste.

BULBUS
04-20-2009, 12:06 PM
Miss Pay-Roid is a choking dog. You will regret her presence on your team in any pressure situation. I highly doubt she will ever win the WS ring she covets so badly for her Hall of Fame application.


How old are you? :confused:

3arod13
04-20-2009, 01:18 PM
How old are you? :confused:
49. I enjoy this forum tremendously. However, it gets old when people feel the need to make comments like you just did.

3arod13
04-20-2009, 01:25 PM
49. I enjoy this forum tremendously. However, it gets old when people feel the need to make comments like you just did.

Especially when you quote my comment, and it didn't deserve that type response.

Now, if you had just posted that comment by itself, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

BULBUS
04-20-2009, 01:33 PM
Especially when you quote my comment, and it didn't deserve that type response.

Now, if you had just posted that comment by itself, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

You lost me here. I commented on bigtimes post, not yours. When you use terms like "miss" and "she" refering to a male adult, I'm guessing he's around 10 yrs old?

3arod13
04-20-2009, 01:40 PM
You lost me here. I commented on bigtimes post, not yours. When you use terms like "miss" and "she" refering to a male adult, I'm guessing he's around 10 yrs old?

My apology. It was actually bigtime who made the comment.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

Regards, Tony

bigtime59
04-20-2009, 02:33 PM
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! The mind is a terrible thing to waste.

So are those trips to the playoffs the Yankee$ have bought so dearly and failed to cash in on since 2000...

bigtime59
04-20-2009, 02:40 PM
How old are you? :confused:

Except for my left knee, which feels like it's about 93, I'm 49.


When you use terms like "miss" and "she" refering to a male adult, I'm guessing he's around 10 yrs old?

Nah...I'd like to think I'm a little more emotionally mature than the person I was writing about! :eek:
When the highest paid player in the history of sports (once called "the most insecure millionaire I've ever met" by another MLB player) turns every playoff appearance into a gag job of epic proportions, and truly believes the world revolves around "him", I believe that "miss" and "she" are utterly appropriate.
To quote my better half, speaking about someone else with an insecurity complex not near so inflated as Miss Pay-Roids: " is such a [B]girl...and I mean that in the worst possible way."

Yankwood
04-20-2009, 03:54 PM
So are those trips to the playoffs the Yankee$ have bought so dearly and failed to cash in on since 2000...This is all very interesting stuff that none of us has ever heard before.....:rolleyes: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............

TFig27
11-05-2009, 09:20 PM
Hmmm. 22-4 Indians. Great that the Yanks went out and got CC Sabathia (lost 2 starts I think now?) and Mark Tex. (.194 thru today, and that was after hitting a homer). Nice to know that money was well spent...

Outdoing all the other teams for players sure is paying off for NY. :rolleyes:

:D

skyking26
11-05-2009, 11:04 PM
:D
Yep, eatn' some crow.

Just goes to show you....the team that pays the most $$ wins. Small market teams don't have a great chance do they? Blew the deflated Phils off the map.:eek: