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trsent
03-05-2009, 09:46 PM
What is up with the future of Mastro Auctions?

I have heard so many rumors in the past two weeks I figured there would be some discussion about it, but I have seen nothing published. I don't want to post any rumors but has any news been published?

lund6771
03-05-2009, 09:50 PM
don't keep us in suppense!

what are the rumers on the street trsent?

trsent
03-05-2009, 09:53 PM
don't keep us in suppense!

what are the rumers on the street trsent?

I can't post rumors, but I have received about 3-4 phone calls in the past two weeks either asking me or telling me about huge changes in the works. I figured it would have been made public by now if true but I can't find anything anywhere online about it.

Maybe it was false speculation or wishful thinking?

trsent
03-06-2009, 05:10 PM
Last week I was told the big announcement would be made last Monday, now I hear the big announcement will come out next Monday.

No one else has heard anything?

b.heagy
03-06-2009, 07:09 PM
come on Joel, post some rumors. after all there just rumors until they are found to be true. :p

encinorick
03-06-2009, 07:39 PM
Looks like we have a new addition to the Game Used Sports Hall of Shame:

1. AMI
2. Bricol
3. Vintage
4. Historic
5. now Mastro...doesn't surprise me.

Should ebay be included for excessive costs, poor buisness practices, etc.?

otismalibu
03-06-2009, 07:55 PM
Anyone know why Mears had so many of their jerseys in the last Mastro auction? Why not use their own auction site or just fire sale them from their For Sale section?

trsent
03-06-2009, 08:13 PM
Anyone know why Mears had so many of their jerseys in the last Mastro auction? Why not use their own auction site or just fire sale them from their For Sale section?

Did MEARS consign their jerseys to Mastro? Did MEARS publish them on their own web site? I never saw it, but that would catch me as odd since I though MEARS and Mastro were not working together since Mastro did not sign their auction house contract.

Could the jerseys have already been authenticated by MEARS and then consigned? I have no clue, but I didn't look at the last Mastro auction.

The rumors I have heard deal more with a reorganization of some nature in the Mastro family.

otismalibu
03-06-2009, 08:20 PM
Did MEARS consign their jerseys to Mastro? Did MEARS publish them on their own web site? I never saw it, but that would catch me as odd since I though MEARS and Mastro were not working together since Mastro did not sign their auction house contract.Jerseys that I'd seen listed in the Mears For Sale section of their website were in the the last Mastro auction.

Check the category view below.

http://mastronet.com/index.cfm?Action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Category%20View

trsent
03-06-2009, 09:41 PM
Here is the reply I received from Troy Kinunen of MEARS:

Joel,

Regarding the jerseys in Mastro Auctions, the majority of them were common jerseys that were purchased with the specific purpose of helping us build the MEARS database. We were looking for common jerseys that we could use to record tagging, patches, styles, etc. Once we had archived the data, we had very little need for them.

Back in June of 2008, Dave Bushing worked out deals with both Hunt Auctions and Mastro Net to auction the jerseys. At that time we did not have an auction house in formation. For whatever reason, Mastro Net chose not to sell them until this year. If they would have been in our possession during the past several months, we would have included them in the MEARSonlineauctions.

In addition, some of our other inventory was committed last year to both Grey Flannel and REA. These items were again committed before the formation of the MEARSonlineauctions.

With plans of moving into the new MEARS showroom and research center, it was thought best to "thin the heard". Even with the mass sales to other auction houses, MEARS is still in possession of nearly 1,000 unlisted game used bats, and 100's of game used jerseys that have not been offered publicly. These items will be offered for sale at our new showroom, MEARS For Sale, and MEARSonlineauctions.

Going forward, you will not be seeing MEARS owned items in other auction houses. MEARS items have done quite well in our own auctions, and those items will only be featured in MEARSonlineauctions.

Regards,

Troy R. Kinunen/MEARS

lund6771
03-10-2009, 09:31 PM
http://www.auctionreport.com/

I guess Mastro is now Legenday Auctions?

ironmanfan
03-10-2009, 09:41 PM
http://www.auctionreport.com/

I guess Mastro is now Legenday Auctions?

Very curious in that I'm sure that the new entity does not want to associate it itself with the Mastro name (hmmmmm...could there be further news down the road?).

jppopma
03-10-2009, 09:45 PM
Or maybe Mastro not wanting his name on the auction house after what it has turned into. It could have been who asked to have them make the change, plus didn't he sell it or somehow change something a while back as well?

gingi79
03-10-2009, 09:51 PM
"The completion of all outstanding Mastro Auctions business will be seamlessly facilitated, processed and completed through Legendary Auctions."

Does this mean my new Mastro won items from their last auction will have Legendary Auctions Paperwork? I'm glad they come with Mears docs as I haven't heard of this company before.

otismalibu
03-10-2009, 09:54 PM
Does this mean my new Mastro won items from their last auction will have Legendary Auctions Paperwork?

My item arrived today and there was no Legendary Auctions paperwork.

suicide_squeeze
03-10-2009, 10:25 PM
Hmmmmm........very interesting.

I find is peculiar that Bill Mastro "wants time off".....so much so his name is now off the company he sold. He loved his biz, was proud of what it grew into. I wonder who or what swayed him from the integrity based company it was into the mess that ultimately has now been the focus of an investigation by the FBI.

There is obviously something else behind all this.

There were obviously decisions made, IMO, that were compromises.....maybe to avoid further investigation....maybe to avoid arrests? Who knows.

Fraud is a tough thing to win in court. One thing is for sure.....The FBI had some serious "Issues" with the company.

Now......they're gone, and the three left to run "Legendary" are starting off by stating what Robert Edwards Auctions has lived off of...."No in house bidding, all about our customers".

It should have always been that way. Shame on whoever was responsible for the processes that took place in these criminally run operations.

I remember laughing out loud when I saw on AMI's site "Let's get back to the good old day of bidding...." and so on, referring to the fact you can no longer place a "Max" bid on their auction items. The FBI shut that crapola down.

They shut it down because the auction house was seeing the max bids on their system, and making the poor souls who placed them pay for it by bidding.....shill bidding....the item right up to that bid JUST BEFORE the max placed by an honest, yet naive bidder.

Pathetic.

kingjammy24
03-10-2009, 11:34 PM
there is no new entity per se. doug allen and crew just shut down one business and opened up another. "legendary" is doug allen's auction house. a leopard doesn't change its spots. it'll be the usual mastro hijinks as usual. same old, same old. just call it "mastro II: electric boogaloo".

of course, the big question is why. anyway, here's one of my favorite parts from their press release:

“The principals employed by Legendary Auctions will put their own collecting interests aside and concentrate solely on providing opportunities for our customers,” said Allen. “There will be no mixing of business and pleasure at Legendary Auctions in terms of our own collecting pursuits. This will really be all about our customers.”

wait a minute wasn't mastro all about that? har har. "no no guys this one will really be about the customers..not like mastro". seriously though what an asinine thing to say. it's like Ford putting out a press release about their new lineup of cars saying "this time we decided to make them good!".

anyway mastro once posted on their website that they weren't dealers and they didn't sell stuff they owned. of course, they did exactly that. so now when doug says that there'll no mixing of business and pleasure in terms of their own collecting pursuits i'll assume that'll be exactly what'll be happening. anyone want to place any bets that "Legendary Auctions" will have a mysterious, unidentified authentication team just like mastro? what does this all really mean? simply that lou's paychecks will have a different name on them.

rudy.

dirtyla2000
03-11-2009, 02:56 AM
hi guys,the way I understand it , these auction houses have been hosing us for years but god forbid you decide to bid and change your mind,they blackball you! yet,if your items sell but dont get paid for they dont give a crap! Robert Edwards,Mears and I think thats it! the others purposely mislead there stuff for higher sales. its BS.GAME USED UNIVERSE IS NEW AND I HOPE DOESNT FALL INTO THE BS GAME! Mastro just pulled a good old fashion FLIP!

TNTtoys
03-11-2009, 09:56 AM
I received an email last night with "the big news" -- I am assuming that everyone else here received the same note?

otismalibu
03-11-2009, 11:31 AM
I have to say I was impressed with how Mastro shipped the item. Jersey was folded in a sealed bag, and the box was filled with cardboard spacers so that the Mears letter couldn't shift or wrinkle.

Compare that to another auction house I won't mention by name. The item (8x the value of the one mentioned above) was stuffed in a priority mail size box and shipped just like that. No plastic bag or anything.

mvandor
03-11-2009, 12:20 PM
Can't help but wonder iif this is not a direct result of the well publicized FBI investigation. Perhaps the brand had become tarnished, perhaps Bill Mastro was worn out by the wear and tear of the investigation and wanted out. Wonder if the new corporation acquired assets only or assets and liabilities? If just the first could be a liability dodge.

Lots of possible motivations.

dcgreg25
03-11-2009, 01:10 PM
I just got a call from someone at Mastro and it sounds like Legendary will take over the assets going forward starting with the next auction. Mastro will receive payment for and complete all transactions from the recently closed auction.

Its funny, if you call the phone number on the email announcing Legendary's formation, you get a voicemail for a restoration company and no mention of the auction house...at least as of when I called this morning.

kingjammy24
03-11-2009, 02:13 PM
Can't help but wonder iif this is not a direct result of the well publicized FBI investigation. Perhaps the brand had become tarnished, perhaps Bill Mastro was worn out by the wear and tear of the investigation and wanted out. Wonder if the new corporation acquired assets only or assets and liabilities? If just the first could be a liability dodge.

Lots of possible motivations.

as usual, mastro's explanation makes little sense. if bill simply wants to leave the hobby then why does that necessitate shutting down his life's work entirely? after all, bill already sold his interest in 2004. all he'd have to do is just quit. you'd think he'd be interested in seeing the business with his name on it continue and prosper for many years.

- in 2004, mastro sold his firm to silk road equity. silk road equity is headed by andrew filipowski. filipowski was doug allen's boss many years ago when doug worked as a VP for platinum technologies. safe to say that andrew and doug have a long history.

- fast forward to today: from a feb 2009 ny daily news article:
"A lawyer contacted by an angry consignor, however, said company founder Bill Mastro told him the company had a cash-flow problem.
"Mastro said the new owners have been reluctant to expand or renew their bank credit line," said the lawyer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity."

wow..doug can't get his buddy's firm to renew their credit line? that's very odd. (at the time, doug said everything was fine, no problems, just a banking glitch. 1 month later, mastro shuts down. as always, doug's word is gold).

well wait a minute here..if doug couldn't secure financing for mastro, then how did he secure it for "legendary", especially in 2009 when credit has practically frozen? legendary is up and running within days of mastro folding? yeah that makes sense. just bill..wanting to leave the hobby. that's it.

my 2 cents: if "legendary" is revealed to be funded by silk road equity, then i think it's obvious what happened.

rudy.

suicide_squeeze
03-11-2009, 02:35 PM
as usual, mastro's explanation makes little sense. if bill simply wants to leave the hobby then why does that necessitate shutting down his life's work entirely? after all, bill already sold his interest in 2004. all he'd have to do is just quit. you'd think he'd be interested in seeing the business with his name on it continue and prosper for many years.

- in 2004, mastro sold his firm to silk road equity. silk road equity is headed by andrew filipowski. filipowski was doug allen's boss many years ago when doug worked as a VP for platinum technologies. safe to say that andrew and doug have a long history.

- fast forward to today: from a feb 2009 ny daily news article:
"A lawyer contacted by an angry consignor, however, said company founder Bill Mastro told him the company had a cash-flow problem.
"Mastro said the new owners have been reluctant to expand or renew their bank credit line," said the lawyer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity."

wow..doug can't get his buddy's firm to renew their credit line? that's very odd. (at the time, doug said everything was fine, no problems, just a banking glitch. 1 month later, mastro shuts down. as always, doug's word is gold).

well wait a minute here..if doug couldn't secure financing for mastro, then how did he secure it for "legendary", especially in 2009 when credit has practically frozen? legendary is up and running within days of mastro folding? yeah that makes sense. just bill..wanting to leave the hobby. that's it.

my 2 cents: if "legendary" is revealed to be funded by silk road equity, then i think it's obvious what happened.

rudy.

Exactly, Rudy.

I think it's referred to in the brokerage business as an unfriendly takeover. But this one most likely carries a twist.

In creating the "appearance" that Bill's name is being removed from the company from this point on, how convenient is that for the three principles left to run the "new" company while shedding the perceived "baggage" that was Mastro Net? Pretty darn convenient.

So, were the problems that wrecked the largest Auction house in the business from Bill? Or were the majority of these problems the result of the sale and subsequent "management" team that took the reigns and ran with it? Does it even matter?

There is an obvious "changing of the guard" as far as company policy. But it's still the usual suspects running the show. My guess? We are all ending up left to deal with the same company with forced changed mandated by the FBI investigation.....and the results of a manufactured compromise on everyone involved to just end the speculation of "unfair" play, and start over with guidelines to be followed (or else) going forward.

You saw it at AMI......and we're seeing it here. Simple as that.

As long as the end result is a better invironment for the bidders (collectors).......then I guess it's a good thing.

jppopma
03-11-2009, 03:46 PM
I'd hate to be one of the people with a consignment check coming from Mastro.... Not coming out and saying that there will be problems and people being told a "sorry Mastro is no more" shell game, just how will these changes affect the timely payments??

kingjammy24
03-11-2009, 05:40 PM
unless of course the FBI investigation made silk road withdraw their funding and no bank would touch mastro unless there was a scapegoat and investors were told that the scapegoat is no longer part of the company so "everything's ok now".

any way you slice it, it doesn't appear to me to be simply a quaint little matter of bill mastro just wanting more time to feed the ducks in the park.

rudy.

lowell25
03-12-2009, 02:15 PM
You forgot to add coaches corner.


Looks like we have a new addition to the Game Used Sports Hall of Shame:

1. AMI
2. Bricol
3. Vintage
4. Historic
5. now Mastro...doesn't surprise me.

Should ebay be included for excessive costs, poor buisness practices, etc.?

lowell25
03-12-2009, 02:21 PM
Can anyone tell me who I should Trust when I buy game used jersey's, helmets, ect. AMI SUCKS, Coaches Corner SUCKS, Mastro Net SUCKS. Should I just buy from MLB.COM and Steiner. PLEASE HELP.:confused:

dirtyla2000
03-12-2009, 05:06 PM
I would love the same answer!

kingjammy24
03-12-2009, 05:48 PM
Can anyone tell me who I should Trust when I buy game used jersey's, helmets, ect. AMI SUCKS, Coaches Corner SUCKS, Mastro Net SUCKS. Should I just buy from MLB.COM and Steiner. PLEASE HELP.:confused:

the answer to that question has always been the same: trust yourself. educate yourself on the items you want to collect. that way you won't need to place trust in others. noone will look after your best interests like you. mlb.com and steiner have both made numerous errors. if you know what you're doing, you'll spot the errors. the thing is, it's not that hard. this isn't rocket science. start with bill henderson's guide: http://www.mlbstyleguides.com/refguide.html . it provides a great introduction to collecting MLB gamers.

rudy.

Eric
03-12-2009, 07:42 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/2009/03/11/2009-03-11_bill_mastro_folds_sports_memorabilias_la.html?p rint=1&page=all

Bill Mastro folds sports memorabilia's largest auction house amid FBI probe

BY MICHAEL O'KEEFFE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Thursday, March 12th 2009, 10:15 AM

Mastro auctions chairman Bill Mastro boasted in a Jan. 21 article in the Chicago Daily Herald that his auction house would not be damaged by the recession because it caters to high-end clients.

"When we do our big auctions we're typically dealing with well-heeled guys, and this is what gives them pleasure," Mastro said. "If anything, I think guys are getting more choosy and discriminating about what they buy and how they buy it. But at the end of the day a Mercedes is a Mercedes, and if you want and have the means, you'll pay for it."

Less than two months later, Mastro Auctions is apparently out of business.

Sports memorabilia's largest auction house is at the center of an FBI investigation into shill bidding, card doctoring and other allegations of fraud that have damaged the company's Mercedes image. While Bill Mastro said in the January interview that the company would continue to generate $50 million in annual sales, industry sources say it had crippling credit-line and cash-flow problems. Consignors have complained that they were not paid for items sold at Mastro's December auction.

Three Mastro executives, including president Doug Allen, have purchased Mastro Auction's assets and will launch a new company called Legendary Auctions. The new business has taken possession of computer software and client lists, sources told the Daily News. Allen did not return phone calls for comment, but in a press release, the new company said all outstanding Mastro Auctions business will be "seamlessly facilitated, processed and completed through Legendary Auctions." Industry sources told the Daily News they expect Mastro's consignors will all eventually be paid.

Allen had told potential investors that he is not a target of the FBI probe, according to sources, but the new company appears to be taking steps to avoid shill-bidding allegations and other problems that damaged Mastro's credibility with collectors.

"The principals employed by Legendary Auctions will put their own collecting interests aside and concentrate solely on providing opportunities for our customers," Allen said in the press release. "There will be no mixing of business and pleasure at Legendary Auctions in terms of our own collecting pursuits. This will really be all about our customers."

The Daily News reported last year that sports-memorabilia officials have testified before a grand jury in Chicago that is investigating Mastro Auctions and fraud in the collectibles business.

The grand jury deliberations are part of an investigation into memorabilia fraud initiated last year by the Chicago division of the FBI, whose "Operation Foul Ball" smashed a multistate autograph forgery ring in the 1990s. Other sports-memorabilia businesses and individuals may also be under investigation.

Bill Mastro will not be associated with Legendary Auctions. "Circumstances make it clear to me that the business needs to move in a different direction at this time, and Legendary Auctions is a positive step that allows everyone to be taken care of, especially our customers who have been so loyal," Mastro said in the press release. "I am looking forward to taking some time off for now, and wish Legendary Auctions only the best as they move forward."

earlywynnfan
03-12-2009, 08:02 PM
Maybe I'm reading into this wrong, but it seems to me that Allen is tossing the Mastro name to the wolves (FBI) and putting on a new set of clothes. I have never personally dealt with Allen, and my few Mastro experiences have been fine, but I always thought that Bill Mastro was the classy one of the group; now this deal almost makes it look like they dumped the problem, and from now on the remaining members will uphold the fine standards they always wanted.

Does anyone else get this vibe from this manuever? We all seem to be seeing a con game in progress, but does anyone else feel bad for Bill in this?

(Also, I've never heard a bad thing about Ron Oser, either; I didn't even know he was a bigwig at Mastro.)

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Marichal27
03-12-2009, 08:50 PM
Henderson's cd has so many holes in it, if it were cheese, it would be Swiss.
He claimed some Indians future jersey as one of those prototypes from the '90's I believe...it's actually a softball uniform.

kingjammy24
03-12-2009, 09:58 PM
hi ken

i also get the impression that bill's the scapegoat.

mastro was owned by SRE which is headed by doug's old buddy flip. maybe SRE wasn't overly fond of funding an auction house that was the focus of an FBI investigation especially in the current climate? why would SRE cut off funding if mastro was profitable, especially if SRE/flip inserted their own man, doug, at the top of the operation?
secondly, what other investor or lender's going to fund a company under FBI investigation? but if they make bill out to be the scapegoat and say that he's no longer with the company then that allows doug to procure funding to start another auction house. why would legendary be able to procure funding but mastro couldn't? after all, it's the same management team! what's the only difference? bill mastro's not there. not hard to put 2 and 2 together.

i've never met or spoken to bill mastro but from what i've read i see no reason to feel sorry for him especially after reading "The Card". while some may say that the book was a hack job on bill, i didn't see bill suing for libel. the book practically implies that bill committed a massive fraud and bill doesn't say a word. yeah that screams innocence.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/06/24/2007-06-24_just_cant_cut_it.html

is it just a coincidence that the guy accused of altering the T206 wagner then has his auction house under FBI investigation for card altering? as they say, the fish rots from the head down.

secondly, bill chose to sell to SRE in 2004. he chose to take on doug allen. maybe he felt a kinship with doug, a guy who's been shown to have no qualms about altering items without disclosing the alterations. if these choices came back to bite bill in the ass, then so be it. stupidity has always had consequences. the sale made him a wealthy man and even after the sale, he proclaimed he was still heavily involved in every aspect. so you've got bill and doug at the top and the two of them do such an amazing management job that the company comes under FBI investigation for card-altering and shill bidding and then folds. wow! do you know how badly you've got to screw up to result in an FBI investigation? those guys don't go around conducting random investigations of clean businesses. when you think of the gross ineptitude that it takes to come to these results, it's pretty staggering. yet there was ol' dougie doing his usual garbage song and dance a month earlier singing the "everything's alright! t'is just a bank glitch!" ditty. of course the fact that it was coming out of doug's mouth meant it was garbage and wow, shocker, 1 month later mastro goes down. i wouldn't be surprised if in several years, "legendary auctions" is under FBI investigation.

as for oser being a bigwig at mastro, mastro purchased ron's company years and years ago and when you're the head of a company being purchased, it's not hard to secure yourself a plum position with your new overlord.

"Circumstances make it clear to me that the business needs to move in a different direction at this time.."

LOL. "circumstances". like a #*&!@ FBI investigation? those kinds of circumstances? they make it clear that the business needs to move in a non-fraudulent direction perhaps? in a "no more card-altering or shill-bidding" type of direction? what a genius. well good luck moving in that direction with doug allen at the helm. after all, doug was at the top at mastro and they went straight down the toilet. i don't know what makes bill or doug think "legendary" will be any different. "this time it will really be about our customers". what a racket. if i were part of the team at legendary, i wouldn't exactly be advertising that doug allen is leading it. how's that a plus? "and heading our new auction house is failed executive doug allen who previously headed mastro which is now under FBI investigation". what an advertisement. who's in charge of their customer service, kieta?

i don't feel sorry for bill or doug. they made a ton of money and together they governed a company that's now under FBI investigation. the only people i feel sorry for are the lower-level mastro employees who are genuinely paying the consequences for bill and doug's staggering ineptitude. i'm surprised theotikos and oser are actually following allen to another venture. out of one trainwreck and into another. then again, with the economy going the way it is, i can't imagine "auction directors" are in high-demand so maybe they have little choice.

rudy.

Capital-Sports
03-12-2009, 10:06 PM
Rudy,

I just have to say that I read all of your posts, past and present, and even form the old GUF archive, and you are a very informative individual. I value everything you say, and respect that you only speak the truth. You have alot of knowledge and I always look forward to reading your posts.

Ok, now im off your.......well.....game used baseballs LOL

Mark

kingjammy24
03-12-2009, 10:38 PM
Henderson's cd has so many holes in it, if it were cheese, it would be Swiss.
He claimed some Indians future jersey as one of those prototypes from the '90's I believe...it's actually a softball uniform.

are you referring to ver 3 of bill's guide for ver 4? there were many corrections in ver 4.

anyway, for those that don't know, bill's guide is a reference guide that encompasses every single style of jersey, including BP shirts, for every single MLB team from 1970-2007. it is 1266 pages long. how are there not going to be some errors? everyone knows about the indians error referenced above. can you name 10 other errors? shouldn't be too hard given that bill documents 37 yrs worth of jerseys right?

to my knowledge, it's the only guide that even attempts to cover such a range and i still think it makes excellent reading for anyone interested in collecting MLB gamers. there's more right than wrong in it and i think it still makes for an excellent reference. hey marichal, quick off the top of your head, what year did the expos first begin using red numbers on the front of their road shirts? don't look in henderson's guide. good luck.

rudy.

kingjammy24
03-23-2009, 01:15 PM
my 2 cents: if "legendary" is revealed to be funded by silk road equity, then i think it's obvious what happened.

the plot thickens: http://www.silkroadequity.com/Equity/Portfolio.html
silk road has removed mastro from their stable and added "legendary auctions".

"Mastro said the new owners have been reluctant to expand or renew their bank credit line," said the lawyer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity." "..industry sources say it had crippling credit-line and cash-flow problems."

the new owners (SRE) were reluctant to expand or renew mastro's credit but have no problem doing it for legendary? what's the difference? they're interested in funding doug but not doug and bill. doug made sure to specifically say he was "not the target of the FBI investigation". i guess we know who is then.

well played mr.allen!

rudy.

trsent
03-23-2009, 03:26 PM
the plot thickens: http://www.silkroadequity.com/Equity/Portfolio.html
silk road has removed mastro from their stable and added "legendary auctions".

"Mastro said the new owners have been reluctant to expand or renew their bank credit line," said the lawyer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity." "..industry sources say it had crippling credit-line and cash-flow problems."

the new owners (SRE) were reluctant to expand or renew mastro's credit but have no problem doing it for legendary? what's the difference? they're interested in funding doug but not doug and bill. doug made sure to specifically say he was "not the target of the FBI investigation". i guess we know who is then.

well played mr.allen!

rudy.

Was Bill Mastro active in the day to day operations of Mastro Auctions since he sold the company and stayed on as an adviser?

I was under the impression that the new owners of Mastro Auctions were broke so Doug Allen coughed up the money to start this new company. What brings speculation that this has to do with an FBI investigation except for people hoping such is true?

I have no inside information, but I was told the owner of Mastro Auctions was broke due to the stock market situations so Doug Allen raised money so reform the auction house under a new name.

In my years in this industry, Bill Mastro has always been an open and honest person who was always available to answer questions that were ever poised to him (not a true statement when discussing Doug Allen) and I believe if you have questions you should find Bill Mastro (on vacation?) and ask him your questions about what is going on.

These posts are beginning to run with so much speculation and finger pointing that maybe, like the Congress investigation into which baseball players used drugs, this is looking like a very similar witch hunt with no end and no apparent contact with those involved to get their sides of the story since everyone being hunted in this thread doesn't appear to post on this forum.

Maybe, just maybe, a new company, will join and post on this forum?

David
03-23-2009, 04:41 PM
I agree that there is limited information and much speculation. As far as the investigation goes, no on knows what is going on who is being looked at. For example, even if shilling is the crime, shilling can be the product of the consignors (and well placed friends) rather the auctioneer. I've seen a variety of speculation, but I've not heard anyone in the government say a Mastro employee, much less which Mastro employee, is being looked at by the FBI. Maybe a Mastro employee(s) is in trouble, but I can only speculate about that.

kingjammy24
03-23-2009, 04:48 PM
"Was Bill Mastro active in the day to day operations of Mastro Auctions since he sold the company and stayed on as an adviser?"

great question. let's ask bill:

“It was strictly a financial business decision,” Mastro explains. “I’m still the CEO and I’m still running the company just like I always have. I still do it all. I proof every page of every catalogue. I know people think I’m crazy but it is that attention to every detail that has made MastroNet what it is – my sticking my nose into everyone’s business. I come to work motivated everyday because I care. I’m not leaving! I’m not going anywhere!”

"I was under the impression that the new owners of Mastro Auctions were broke so Doug Allen coughed up the money to start this new company."

so silk road lists "legendary" as one of their companies and that gives you the impression that they're broke and that doug allen raised the money? got it. if SRE was broke why would they invest in "legendary"?

"These posts are beginning to run with so much speculation and finger pointing.."

i simply posted that SRE is now listing "legendary" as one of their companies. the only real speculation i see is you saying SRE is broke.

rudy.

kingjammy24
03-23-2009, 04:53 PM
I agree that there is limited information and much speculation. As far as the investigation goes, no on knows what is going on who is being looked at. For example, even if shilling is the crime, shilling can be the product of the consignors (and well placed friends) rather the auctioneer. I've seen a variety of speculation, but I've not heard anyone in the government say a Mastro employee, much less which Mastro employee, is being looked at by the FBI. Maybe a Mastro employee(s) is in trouble, but I can only speculate about that.

according to one ny daily news article, the mastro FBI investigation "has focused on shill bidding, card doctoring and other allegations of fraud".

"Also on Friday, investigators from the FBI and the United States Postal Service interviewed a former Mastro Auctions employee who is known to be a “card doctor,” somebody who fixes dog-eared corners, removes stains, flattens out creases or takes other steps to improve the appearance of trading cards. Most collectors and dealers consider it unethical to alter cards."

rudy.

suicide_squeeze
03-23-2009, 05:42 PM
O.K. ...................I can "speculate" with the best of them.

I'll go out on a limb and say there was some kind of a deal cut by Bill and and FBI. I'll also say ALL of them that worked in the company knew exactly what was going on. EVERYTHING.

Keeping in mind fraud is a BITCH to prosecute and prove in the court of law (because of the necessary "intent" prerequisite to convict) and knowing it would have been a long, trecherous trial, expensive as hell, with NO guarantee of any convictions.........this is how it probably went down......


FBI: "Bill, you and your RAT PACK have some dirty hands here.....You say you're "into everything" so by self admission, you're guilty of having knowledge of what we've found going on here (shill bidding, card doctoring). How do we clean this up Bill? Oh, and by the way, thanks for the Babe Ruth signed baseball, my son will LOVE it!

Bill: "My pleasure....and my best to the wife, Chief. I'll just grab my jacket and I'll be on my way....thanks for everything, boys!"

FBI: "But Bill.....we have to do SOMETHING or all the money we've spent to investigate all of the complaints will be for not.....And after all, we HAVE found your rats have been chewing on the collectors.....so how does this sound?.....Since you're responsible, you take yourself out of the picture, and this company that bought your name can move on with a clean slate....deal? That will separate you from your elfs, and everyone will be left wondering who the real responsible party is......sound good?"

Bill: "I think that's a gem, Chief. After all, I've made enough to last me a lifetime with MORE than enough left over to satisfy the 'family', and since my 'gig is up' and you're letting me walk, I won't have to be looking over my shoulder in the slammer because I wasn't able to pay off 'the family' before I met up with one of their 'insider's' in the joint. It's ALL GOOD! So......are you sure the wifey wouldn't like a signed Jose Canseco ball? The chicks really used to dig him.....Madonna too?"

FBI: I'm sure 'Slick' (Willie).....Hell, she'll probably have me auction off the Ruth ball before I can even give it to the boy.....Maybe even in the upcoming Legendary Auction?!?!!

Both laugh heartily as they shake hands and head towards the door......

trsent
03-23-2009, 09:20 PM
Have any of you pointing fingers ever met Bill Mastro and had a discussion with him?

I do not know if he is clean or not, but I can tell you he always gave me the impression that he was very straightforward and honest. This doesn't mean he was, but he sure showed class and openness in my dealings with him many years ago. This also doesn't mean there were not issues in his company that he may or may not have known about.

Everyone can make guesses, everyone can be jealous because Bill used to tell us all how he had more money than everyone else, but putting the spotlight on Bill Mastro because the company reformed is just speculation.

Rudy, as for you doubting my comments about the money issues within the owners of Mastro Auctions - My speculation came from sources within the company and not just pure speculation. Maybe they were telling people this to make them feel better, as I find it odd that the same parent company is advertising the new auction house on their web site if there was really to be a reorganization.

So confusing this whole situation. Too bad the principles do not post their sides on here.

David
03-23-2009, 09:26 PM
Over the years I've had both positive and negative interactions with Mastro, so I'm not an apologist. At their best they were the best sports auction house around, though later on there were some things I saw that didn't sit well with me. As I said, I don't know the specifics of the investigation, so I won't speculate on that.

suicide_squeeze
03-23-2009, 11:09 PM
trsent, David......and anybody else for that matter....

This is not a court room, and we are not trying Mastro Net.

But I for one am DAMN PISSED OFF for one particular dealing I had with them (a prior post....let me know if you want to re-visit it) that was BRUTALLY wrong.....so wrong that I almost gave up on my interest in the collecting hobby. I was raped.....playing by THEIR rules!

Then to hear we ALL have been faced with "shill bidding" when participating intheir auctions? I mean.....I'd be REALLY upset if I was a CARD COLLECTOR......thank God I'm not.

WHY do you care to stand up for Bill, or his company.....after this type of news comes out? HOW MANY items did you OVER PAY for? It was HIS COMPANY. If ANY of you think their was criminal activity going on by his employees, and HE didn't KNOW about it......then WHY is HE the one going bye-bye? C'MON people.........use the grey matter.

As far as how Bill came off to you and in regards to your experiences and past dealings....I mean are you kidding? O.J. Simpson was a well respected superstar in the sports world AND in social circles all over Los Angeles here, Hollywood, the whole acting scene....you name it.

But what would you say if I told you I attended a high school party many years ago in Brentwood, where I grew up, and our cross country track star had a party at his well-known brain sugeon father's mansion......and O.J. showed up with a couple of his pro football buddies. He went from blonde to blonde without hesitation. This was 1976 people. True story. High school girls.

Then, Mr. Congeniality did his little double duty in 1994 becasue NO ONE was going to make the GREAT O.J. pay $10,000 a month in ALIMONY! Nice.

Would you let the guy date your daughter today?

Criminals don't walk around wearing a cap saying "LOOK OUT, IM A BAD ONE!" The most successful of them are usually the classiest, quiet, soft and well spoken. They attract people......their "victims" to be. They are experts at grabbing your wallet, all the time while stroking your ego, or whatever else you lay on the table with their smooth ways.

I say the whole organization was a skunk wearing Chanel #5. And I have most of my best items from them over the years.

But you know what? Just because they had the largest numbers (by far) in sales over the past 6-8 years or so in the hobby doesn't mean they are "the blessed ones". In fact, WHY were their numbers so darn good in their little "unregulated" business?

Yeah, Mastro Net had a great thing going.

So did Bernie Madoff.

I don't know about you.......but I want some GAL DARN ANSWERS from someone....the FBI.....SOMEONE.

I'll say my apologies later.

trsent
03-23-2009, 11:16 PM
Did you compare Bill Mastro to OJ Simpson?

Sorry, I stopped reading your post after that.

Everyone know I am a fan of Bill Mastro but I think Doug Allen thinks the rules are made by him, in case you are concerned about where I stand.

rose14
03-24-2009, 09:30 AM
I have been dealing with Bill Mastro and Mastro Sports Auctions for over 10 years now and I can tell you that my dealings with Bill and Brian Marren were great over the years. I have been to their offices about three or four times over those years and everything and everyone was very professional, everything you would expect from a top notch auction house. I always looked forward to every Mastro auction and knew it would be loaded with some of the best items in the sports collectibles industry.

I have seen a noticable change in the company since Doug Allen arrived at Mastro. It appears to me that the amount of questionable items has gone up considerably since Doug's arrival. In my opinion it seems that in the last few years Mastro Auctions abilitly to safely authenticate items prior to auction was poor and that those auctions were about quantity instead of quality.

suicide_squeeze
03-24-2009, 09:47 AM
Did you compare Bill Mastro to OJ Simpson?

Sorry, I stopped reading your post after that.

Everyone know I am a fan of Bill Mastro but I think Doug Allen thinks the rules are made by him, in case you are concerned about where I stand.

trsent,

Read it again if you'd like, but please.....understand the analogy.

I was simply saying you can't judge a book by it's cover. No matter how personable, professional, caring, etc. a guy comes off, he could be the devil in disguise. I was in NO way, shape, or form comparing Bill to O.J.

Look, obviously something was wrong. Hopefully the truth will come out, but the "truth" may be nothing more than what we already know:

-There was some card doctoring. Without a picture or proof of who did this.....no charges will be brought.

-There was "shill bidding" going on. This could mean a LOT of things. But I'll summerize by saying if the item was owned by someone in the auction house, and you ended up bidding on it and WON......you probably got lambasted because you were bidding against someone in the company who either got he wanted for it, or jacked it up to a pre-determined point where he locked in his investment in it.

And guess what the consequences would be if one of the bidders didn't win an item that was being bid up by an insider of the company? That's right, nothing. No buyers premium to pay, no listing fees.....NOTHING. It was a win/win sitch for them.

So you ask..."How could they get away with this?" Easy, they tell the Feds "Hey, we're collectors too. If our consigners have no problem with us bidding on items in our own auctions, what is the problem? We sincerely wanted to win the item we were bidding on. Sure. Right. And it probably took very little planning and effort on their part to represent the item being "owned and consigned" by another individual. Am I speculating? Yes.
Am I way off base? You can decide for yourself.

Go ahead, trsent, stand up for your man. I have no problem with that. But if you want to comment on a post, at least READ it through and try to get the meaning......please.

suicide_squeeze
03-24-2009, 10:14 AM
I have been dealing with Bill Mastro and Mastro Sports Auctions for over 10 years now and I can tell you that my dealings with Bill and Brian Marren were great over the years. I have been to their offices about three or four times over those years and everything and everyone was very professional, everything you would expect from a top notch auction house. I always looked forward to every Mastro auction and knew it would be loaded with some of the best items in the sports collectibles industry.

I have seen a noticable change in the company since Doug Allen arrived at Mastro. It appears to me that the amount of questionable items has gone up considerably since Doug's arrival. In my opinion it seems that in the last few years Mastro Auctions abilitly to safely authenticate items prior to auction was poor and that those auctions were about quantity instead of quality.


O.K. Bill's the greatest guy in the hobby.


So what happened? If Doug Allen is the "bad seed"......why did Bill allow this to escalate into his own self demise? Did he just not want to do it anymore? Did he make too much money and just not want to fight the fight anymore? Did he sell the business he obviously loved dearly only to get weaseled out by the Satin of the industry?

All you guys do is praise Bill for the past, but with no substance behind it other than to state (essentially) "It had to be Doug". And quite frankly, the super bad experience I had with Mastro was ALL ABOUT Doug.....he personally orchestrated the biggest buttf&$king I've ever had in my entire life......so believe me, there is no love loss with me and Doug.

But again.......WHY would Bill be the scapegoat? Why would he stand up for the very same guys who did him in? I mean c'mon???

It just doesn't make sense.....if there was absolutely no culpability on his part. As good of a guy as he seemed to be.