Any MLB HAT / CAP experts here???

[bronx_burner]

Anyone know when they changed from green under the bill to gray? Looking at a cap purported to be used in 1990 but has gray under the bill and I'm thinking they still used green at the time. Any help would be appreciated.

[kingjammy24]

i've looked at this issue in the past and while i don't have any hard facts, my own experience was that brim color wasn't attributable to a specific time period. in any given year various teams wore various colors. as well, i saw individual teams change brim colors from one year to the next, going from green to gray and back to green. i also saw black. it didn't seem like a move from new era because if you'll look at any given year, many of the teams wore different brim colors. there didn't seem to be any logic or pattern to it. the only thing you can do is look at what color a specific team wore in a specific year. i'm not sure if i saw different brim colors for a single team in a single year but i may have and it wouldn't be surprising.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

if it's a cap from 1990, then it shouldn't have the "diamond collection" tag. the "diamond collection" moniker included a group of manufacturers (official licensees) that made "official" on-field apparel. russell used it when they first began supplying the jerseys in 1992. new era, i believe, used it for the first time in 1991 on their caps. almost every piece of clothing worn by the players, by various manufacturers, eventually got the "diamond collection" tag including helmets and batting gloves. the only manufacturers who didn't use the "diamond collection" tag were those not officially licensed by MLB as suppliers, such as wilson, AIS, goodman. items from these manufacturers were still worn by various players but these manufacturers didn't have an official licensing deal like russell, new era, ABC.

rudy.

[bronx_burner]

Interesting. I did think that the colors may have gone back and forth after gray began being used but I'm relatively certain that at one point in time, green was the only color, I'm just not sure when that exclusiveness ended.

The cap in question does have the Diamond collection tag. I checked out New Era's site and found this history page...

http://www2.neweracap.com/category/14/About_New_Era/page/119/HISTORY.aspx

According to their timeline the diamond collection began being used in 1986 for teams they provided the hats for (not sure if that means they used the tag yet though). scrolling forward, I see that 1993 was the year they secured rights to produce the on field hats for all teams. Continuing even further, shows that the New Era "flag" logo was introduced in 1997. And that's as much as I'm going to need with this hat as it does have that logo tag. So this cap is at its oldest a 1997. Oh well...

[kingjammy24]

from their site, it sounds like '86 is when they secured the "official" MLB contract. i guarantee you new era caps from '87 didn't have the "diamond collection" tag. in 1990 and 1991, for example, rawlings was the official supplier of jerseys for MLB. no rawlings jerseys had the "diamond collection" logo or moniker.

mears has a bunch of caps you could take a look at to see variations in tagging, brim color, etc:

http://www.mearsonline.com/forsale/results/?page=2&cat=4&subcat=17

not sure how accurate the dating is on some of them but it's still something to look at.

rudy.

[bronx_burner]

Oh I don't disagree that the tags were not being used in 87. Just noted that they seemed to have come up with that term in 86 according to the site.

Looking at those Mears caps, the first thing that pops out to me is that all the caps pre 1994 had green under the brim and that all 94 and after had gray. I think it reasons that somewhere around that time is when it changed.

As for the use of the diamond collection tag, if you assume those caps to be legit, then the Curtis Wilkerson Cubs cap they have listed shows the diamond collection tag. Wilkerson was a Cub in 89 and 90 only. So if the hat is legit, it seems the Diamond collection tag was out by at latest 1990

[kingjammy24]

i haven't really delved into it. i just remember my own personal experience of trying to date new era caps from the 90s and my own empirical evidence was that the diamond collection tag come out around 1991. as for the wilkerson cap, #19 was worn by hector villanueva in 1991. maybe it's not really a wilkerson or maybe i'm wrong. i haven't done enough research to be 100% confident. 1990 or 1991 are close enough for either me to be wrong or for that cap to be a villaneuva.

rudy.

[xpress34]

I'm looking for info on the following TWO manufacturers...

Leslie - 'Millners to the Majors'

KM Pro / Tim McAuliffe (Boston)

I have a Green Wool 'BLANK' Hat from Leslie that has an AWESOME Original Cardboard Insert in it still that claims they make (or rather made) hats for MLB

I also have a VINTAGE (50's / 60's) Yankees GU KM Pro / Tim Mcauliffe Cap

I have heard that New Era used to make 'Private Label' Hats for McAuliffe, Stall & Dean, etc as well as making 'Private Label' hats for Spalding and Wilson as well.

I had also read somewhere that New Era also bought up McAuliffe, KM Pro and a few others on their way to becoming the King of Caps.

I have verified from a few closed auctions that Mears has verified that KM Pro was the exclusive manufacturer of game caps for the Yankees and the Red Sox from the late 50's through the early 70's.

I would love some more info. Considering sending the Yankees hat to Mears for authentication. I only have $225 into it - every authenticated Yankees GU I have seen from this period (regardless of player) has sold for nearly $3,500 and up... this one also happens to have a nice '7' written under the bill - if it does turn out to be one of the Mick's, it could be worth over $50,000.00... the story behind it is that it is from the 1968 season - Mick's last year...

I'll post pics of it and the cardboard insert later...

All help is appreciated...

- Chris

[dodgerbats]

Hop on eBay and look up "timsbatsncaps". He's the person that I always go to on hat / cap concerns.
I feel that he is one of the best, if not the best, in this field. The very nice person to deal with also.

Mark

[xpress34]

I have gone more towards Cap collecting over Jerseys or Bats recently as they tend to be one of the more scarce items to obtain since most players wear the same hat for the better part of the season while going through a dozen or so jerseys and probably a couple dozen or so bats.

Outside of the 'Special' Caps (Opening Day, Memorial/Indepence/Labor Day, All Star Game and Playoffs) and Home/Road/Alt, players usually use maybe 6 or so caps a year (on average) - before the Special caps, John Wetteland was known to wear just 1 or 2 caps in a season...

Anyway, all of that aside, I have procured a few caps recently, but two really got my attention...

1st - a plain Green Wool cap. The Cap itself is nothing special, but the Insert Card (still intact) certainly is:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/Memorabilia/Hats/LeslieHat1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/Memorabilia/Hats/LeslieHat2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/Memorabilia/Hats/LeslieHat3.jpg

Notice that is says 'Milliners to the Majors" and they are from BOSTON

The 2nd Hat is a little more amazing a New Old Stock SF Giants hat from KM Pro (also from Boston) that is MINT and ALSO with a MINT insert:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/SFHat1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/SFHat2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/SFHat3.jpg

Notice that is too says "Milliner to the Majors"

I have been doing my research and I know that KM Pro (also relabeled for the Tim McAuliffe Co. of Boston) provided hats to the Majors for a number of years, but not to retail.

I also know that New Era did PRIVATE LABEL work (meaning they made the hats and LABELED them for KM and McAuliffe) for a number of years as well.

What I am looking for is a solid history on Tim McAuliffe Co., KM Pro and The Leslie Co. - ALL of Boston.

Where they ALL three one in the same? Did they ALL three make hats for the Pros - just different teams at each company?

The Leslie Hat and insert I can date pre '69 - lists the Senators, but no Expos and no Pilots and the KM Pro insert is no earlier than 1969 as that was the year that MLB introduced it's logo - and probably 1970 or later as I believe it's use in 1969 all included the 100th Anniversary tag line underneath the logo.

I welcome any and all input... and YES, the SF Giants hat is a s clean and MINT as it appears...

- Chris

[cohibasmoker]

Hi - maybe I can add some information that may or may not help. I've seen two styles of Tim McAuliffe/KM Pro cap labels. There may be others but the below styles are the only styles that I've ever owned.

The first style has a logo of a white baseball that had Tim McAuliffe and the Boston Address in red thread inside the baseball. The border of the label was blue. The label does NOT have a zip code next to the Boston address. All of the caps I had with this style of label all had a KM Pro Stamp on the sweatband.

The second style also has a baseball style logo except, Pro KM Cap is in blue thread and the border was white. This label has a zip code along with the Boston address.

A third label that I had was a white label, exactly like the KM Pro Label but Leslie was also inside the baseball logo. I owned one of these and this style was inside a Pirates cap. I have NEVER seen another one on any other cap.

Zip codes were unofficially added in 1963 and officially added in 1967. When did Tim McAuliffe/KM Pro officially change their tags to reflect the new zip code I don't know? Did they redesign the labels when they added the zip code to the Boston Address? I don't know that either.

I have attached a scan of the two labels I am talking about. Unfortunately, I do not have the tag of the KM Pro cap with the Leslie addition to it.

Hope this helps,

Jim

[xpress34]

Jim -

Thanks for the info. It definately adds some credence to my thought that possibly KM Pro / McAullife / Leslie were all one in the same....

So, I'm guessing you no longer own the cap with Leslie in the Ball on the tag? If you do, I would be ever so grateful if you would take a close up of the tag and post here or send to me. If not, I would love to see better close ups of your other two tags and sweatband stamps.

I can tell from the one cap that it is a 65-70 Angels - can't miss the 'Halo' embroidery... I have one, with no tags and no stamps in it (pics below) but I am kicking myself that I just missed a KM Pro one on eBay last week...

I am also writing New Era to see if I can get them to possibly offer up more insight as to their dealings with McAuliffe/KM Pro/Leslie/Wilson before they quit doing the Private Label work and became the ONLY Official MLB hat...

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff130/C_Cubed_Productions/Memorabilia/Hats/VintageGUAngelsHat1.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff130/C_Cubed_Productions/Memorabilia/Hats/VintageGUAngelsHat2.jpg

And here are pics of my Yankees KM Pro:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/Memorabilia/Hats/VintageGUYankeesKMProHat1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/xpress34/Memorabilia/Hats/VintageGUYankeesKMProHat3.jpg

All the best -

Chris

[flaco1801]

anyone have any info about this company? were they bought out by someone? when they went out of business? thanks, jeff

[xpress34]

Jeff -

Please drop me an eMail - xpress34@comcast.net

I am a pretty avid Hat Collector and I would be glad to share what info I have been able to put together about them, Tim McAuliffe and the Lindsey hat Co. as well as their connection to New Era.

I own about 7 KM Pros and ONE McAuliffe and ONE Lindsey currently.

- Chris

[lon lewis]

Flaco, KM pro was a joint venture ( for lack of a better term) between Tim McAuliffe and Jack Kaufman. Hence the K M. The hats were produced by Kaufman and sold thru McAuliffe. The embroidery on the hats was done by Roman Art who also did the chainstitch NIC- NIT on the McAuliffe jerseys. Roman Art also produced for McAuliffe/ Stall and Dean all of the patches that weren't MLB mandated. In the mid '70's the New Era owner David Couch purchased at a bankruptcy sale, all of the Kaufman cap manufacturing equipment possibly in an attempt to eliminate competition in that area.
Hope this helps.

[xpress34]

Flaco -

I git your eMail and will respond to it later... however, what Lon said is along the right tracks...

I have to find the links I did dig up awhile back that discusses in depth that While KM Pro was the Manufacturer, they did 'Private Labeling' for McAuliffe - meaning that they made the hats but put McAuliffe's label in them.

As far as New Era (and I believe I found this info on New Era's site talking about their history) and it discusses their early days and them becoming a 'Private Labeler' for both McAuliffe and KM Pro before becoming the EXCLUSIVE provider to MLB... remember that during this time, both Wilson (and although rarer) Rawlings were still able to provide caps for MLB teams.

As I said previously, their is one other hat manufacturer - also from Boston (and I believe from the same time period) - called Lindsey who I believe was also part of the KM Pro / McAuliffe grouping as the one Lindsey I own is New Old Stock and still ahs the insert with is very similar in wording and such as my KM Pro Inserts.

I will take some picture in the next day or so of the inserts so you can see what I'm talking about.

Also, the one McAuliffe I own (like all McAuliffe's I have seen) has the KM Pro Logo stamped into the Leather Head Band.

I would love to see - or know what KM Pro / McAuliffe's you have or are watching that has you inquiring as to their background...

- Chris

[xpress34]

Flaco, KM pro was a joint venture ( for lack of a better term) between Tim McAuliffe and Jack Kaufman. Hence the K M. The hats were produced by Kaufman and sold thru McAuliffe. The embroidery on the hats was done by Roman Art who also did the chainstitch NIC- NIT on the McAuliffe jerseys. Roman Art also produced for McAuliffe/ Stall and Dean all of the patches that weren't MLB mandated. In the mid '70's the New Era owner David Couch purchased at a bankruptcy sale, all of the Kaufman cap manufacturing equipment possibly in an attempt to eliminate competition in that area.
Hope this helps.

Lon -

Just wondering where you got that info on KM Pro being a Joint Venture. I've been looking for info on KM Pro, McAuliffe and Leslie (sorry, NOT Lindsey as I stated earlier) and how they are connected, company histories, etc and keep hitting dead ends.

All the best -

Chris

[flaco1801]

chris... i have a dodgers light weight jacket made by km pro... always wondered if it was a gamer... found a s.f giants while researching that was made by km pro and it was proported to be a gamer....

[lon lewis]

Chris, I used the term "joint venture" because I lacked a better description. The original McAuliffe Co. didn't mfr anything- jerseys hats ect were all done by someone else. Starting in the early '50's the jerseys were mfr'd by Stall and Dean. I don't know how far back the relationship with Kaufman goes back but they did the hats. In 1969 the McAuliffe "label" was taken over by Stall and Dean and they continued the relationship with Kaufman until the mid '70's when the Kaufman assets/equipment was bought by the New Era owner.
All of my KM info came from Richard Stall, the former owner of Stall and Dean.

[flaco1801]

lon.. you ever see a km pro (jacket) gamer from the giants? or any other team... thanks, jeff

[xpress34]

Here is a link to New Era's 'timeline':

http://www2.neweracap.com/category/14/About_New_Era/page/119/HISTORY.aspx

Check the 1960's and it talks about the end of their Private Labeling for McAuliffe and Stall and Dean.

What's also interesting is that in the 40's, New Era was making 'Private Label' caps for both Wilson and Spaulding...

As far as clothing Flaco - I'm not sure what KM Pro made... I know McAuliffe made jerseys for quite a few years...

- Chris

P.S.

Lon -

Thanks for the info... I just wish there was more out there about KM, McAuliffe, etc...

[joelsabi]

In 1974, 20 of the 24 team signed up to wear New Era hats.
By the early 80’s, 23 of the 26 teams were signed to wear New Era hats.
What teams did not sign with New Era during these times and what hat company did they use instead?

Any other information you want to add about New Era hats during this period would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance.

[Sincityson]

In the 1970's the Montreal Expos wore PRO KM Caps.. This comapny mighthave made hats for other teams as well.

Example:

http://pics.classicauctions.net/classicauctions/auctions/7/702/source_702_16291.jpg

[Sincityson]

Roman Pro also made hats for the Expos in the late 1970s:

http://pics.classicauctions.net/classicauctions/auctions/7/705/source_705_16310.jpg

[xpress34]

NEW ERA History:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1920: Erhardt Koch starts his own Cap Company - E Koch Cap Co.

1922: E Koch Cap Co. is officially named "New Era Cap Co." producing a full line of Men's casual and uniform caps, but few sporting goods caps. Newsboy or Flappers caps are created - 8 panel wool cap w/ short bill and loose fitting crown top.

1932: New Era's version of the baseball cap begins development.

1934: New Era's 1st pro baseball caps are produced. The Cleveland Indians Home and Away caps. No exclusive licensing - lots of competition for team's business including Minor League, International League, College and Local League.

Early 1940's: Now providing caps to a large clientèle (local, minor, college and Canadian teams) as well as plain caps for local outlets around the country that would sew on patches or lettering as needed. Also made more MLB and MiLB but the majority were 'Private Labels' for Wilson and Spaulding. (New Era made the cap and Wilson and Spaulding would add their own labels {tags} and sell directly to the teams).

Mid 1940's: Honus Wagner (coaching for Pittsburgh) requests a special cap to fit his unusually large head and New Era obliges.

Late 1940's: New Era debuts it's adjustable cap.

1950: Now supplying Brooklyn Dodgers, Cincinnati Reds, Cleveland Indians and Detroit Tigers as well as other teams under the Wilson and Spaulding 'private labeling'. New Era is now the ONLY independent maker supplying MLB teams.

1954: New Era's 'Pro' cap is modernized and named the 5950 (aka the 'Brooklyn Style' cap).

Early 1960's: New Era calls for an end to it's private labeling for McAuliffe and Stall & Dean brands - a task that took most of the 1960's to meet. To win teams directly, incentives were given including cleaning and reconditioning.

1965: Supplying about 10 MLB teams.

1969: Supplied Special caps for Apollo 11.

1974: 20 of the 24 MLB teams were signed up with New Era.

1978: New Era experiments with 'direct marketing' by running an ad in the Sporting News for Pro Fitted hats for $12.99. Response was overwhelming
and helped shape the fan driven pro licensing boom that hit in the 80's.

Early 80's: Now selling to colleges, local, MiLB, tennis, golf, custom order, military and 23 of the 26 MLB teams.

1986: In conjunction with MLB the 'Diamond Collection' Pro 5950 Cap (same as before) is sanctioned as an Offcial on-field product.

Late 1980's: Wearing "the cap the pro's wear" is now a major baseball fan element.

1993: New Era is granted the 1st EXCLUSIVE license with ALL of MLB to produce 'on-field' pro caps for ALL teams.

1996: Spike Lee personally requests a RED NYY Cap starting a new fashion trend.

1997: The New Era 'Flag' is introduced and has become a fashion statement in its own right.

2005: New Era unveils the "blue box' logo incorporating the 'flag' image and it's new slogan - "Originators of the True Fitted".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This information was all taken directly from the New Era web site.

Based on the information, it appears that beyond Wilson and Spalding, New Era was also making McAuliffe (hence K&M) and Stall & Deans caps up until the late 1960's. Leslie Brand caps are also tied into the McAuliffe / KM Pro brands.

I may be off on this, but I believe I had heard somewhere that Roman Pro was a Wilson brand product as well which would mean their caps were actually New Era caps as well.

Hope this helps some...

- Chris

[sox83cubs84]

In 1974, 20 of the 24 team signed up to wear New Era hats.
By the early 80’s, 23 of the 26 teams were signed to wear New Era hats.
What teams did not sign with New Era during these times and what hat company did they use instead?

Any other information you want to add about New Era hats during this period would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance.

I know that, for the mid-1980s, the Red Sox used caps supplied by Devon.

The Phillies still ordered outside of New Era in the very early 1980s...Wilson and Annco.

Then, beginning in the mid/late '80s, Sports Specialties began making caps for sevral teams, although their caps were not exclusively ordered...Sports Specialties teams also ordered from New Era.

Dave Miedema

[xpress34]

1993: New Era is granted the 1st EXCLUSIVE license with ALL of MLB to produce 'on-field' pro caps for ALL teams.

I forgot to mention that this is also the 1st year that the MLB 'swingman' logo was applied to the cap backs.

In 1994, teams wore the 125th Anniversary MLB 'bronze' pin over the MLB logo on their caps.

- Chris