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View Full Version : Chris Boyd's Business Practices - Part Deux



frikativ54
02-09-2009, 05:58 PM
In mid-January, I posted a thread about Chris Boyd's selling a bat that he bought as game-model as a "game-used" bat. The seller was Scott Brosius, and obviously, a MLB player can tell the difference between a game-model bat and one that has actual use. The thread can be found here - http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=22153&highlight=sticky+residue. The way it was left off was that Chris Boyd would send me the Bagwell bat in question, and I would let forum members know that Boyd was being honest in his description of the bat. I also brought up that he ripped me off for a Bagwell jersey, by selling me a $1495 jersey for $3275, with misleading provenance and a faded autograph. He told me he did not give refunds on ethics.

Immediately after this happened, Boyd started taunting me over email that he had finally bought a pair of cleats that he had previously told me he had bought on my behalf. After the incident, he implied that he was going to send me pictures of the item. He then told me that he had lost the heart for selling, and that he would stick to his lucrative job in the oil industry. He furthermore told me that I would be the first to know when he decided to sell more Bagwell items. He also told me helpful information about the guy who was sending me the nasty emails.

In the past he has allowed me to post pictures of items he has. I get a note from him not to post his pictures. I asked him about the cleats he told me he would sell to me, and he said he wouldn't sell them. Meanwhile, I never got the Bagwell bat - which I told him to keep and simply to follow through with his word about the cleats, and the bat is now off his website. That means, the bat has likely been sold under false pretenses. When I suggested going to the Better Business Bureau on Chris, he said the BBB can't tell him who and who not to do business with. He also said that it was really wrong what I did to him, though I made the decision based on ethics - and I have prevented sellers from buying misdescribed stuff.

I have posted complains both with the BBB and with RipoffReport.com. I am hoping to get my money back for the jersey. Please be aware that when you do business with Chris Boyd, that you may not get what he had told you you were getting. I remember when he told me that he was selling me the "best pair of Jeff Bagwell batting gloves he'd seen", and I bought them for $1000. After I bought them from him, he said that there was light to moderate use on them. Some - best batting gloves he had ever seen. With Chris Boyd - caveat emptor.

Rob L
02-09-2009, 06:57 PM
Geez, I hope you meant $100 for batting gloves and not $1000. The jersey is way overpriced also. Buyer beware?

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 07:05 PM
Geez, I hope you meant $100 for batting gloves and not $1000. The jersey is way overpriced also. Buyer beware?

No - I meant $1000. Live and learn, I guess. Dishonesty at every level. It just makes me not want to be involved in game-used collecting. Hopefully, there are some nice people out there. Yes - buyer beware. Buyers need to be forewarned when they are doing business with someone who is fundamentally dishonest.

b.heagy
02-09-2009, 07:17 PM
Frik,
Did you research any past auctions of game used Bagwell items or previous sales of players of similar talent before purchasing those items? Where did those figures come from? $1k for batting gloves of a modern era star is absurd in my opinion.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 07:19 PM
Frik,
Did you research any past auctions of game used Bagwell items or previous sales of players of similar talent before purchasing those items? Where did those figures come from? $1k for batting gloves of a modern era star is absurd in my opinion.

I didn't know where to research them. I should have asked publically on Game Used Universe, but regardless of that, I was ripped off. Dealers should be more honest, and I am never going to do business with anyone who treats me like this again. It's not worth it. I've learned a very valuable lesson. But I stll think I am owed my money back, because I was led to believe that I was getting a jersey directly from Bagwell's friend with a perfect autograph at fair market value.

grenda12
02-09-2009, 07:26 PM
Ive read the forms and the rip off site and was just amazed. I do really feel for you. It does sound like you've been ripped off. I always try to do research before I buy something game used.

Thanks Les, for watching out for people.

jkalathas
02-09-2009, 07:34 PM
Frik- "fair market value"... what does this even mean? All these game used items (and yes I spend my money on it also) are worth only what we are willing to pay for it. Those batting gloves don't carry a fair market value. Last time I checked used batting gloves are not a commodity. They carry probably a suggested retail price of $25.00, before they are used. If you paid $1,000 and you feel you overpaid, be pissed off at yourself and not who sold them to you.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 07:36 PM
Ive read the forms and the rip off site and was just amazed. I do really feel for you. It does sound like you've been ripped off. I always try to do research before I buy something game used.

Thanks Les, for watching out for people.

I appreciate your support. Hopefully, through these forums, we can make sure that dealers are held accountable for their actions. I will do more research in the future. All I can hope is that I have opened collectors eyes to the mendacity of some in the collecting world. Maybe the BBB will do something.

cigarman44
02-09-2009, 07:40 PM
Frik- "fair market value"... what does this even mean? All these game used items (and yes I spend my money on it also) are worth only what we are willing to pay for it. Those batting gloves don't carry a fair market value. Last time I checked used batting gloves are not a commodity. They carry probably a suggested retail price of $25.00, before they are used. If you paid $1,000 and you feel you overpaid, be pissed off at yourself and not who sold them to you.

I think with game used "fair market value" is whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Sure Chris has done some unethical things in the past but if you agreed to pay those prices, the only one you can fault is yourself. Trust me Ive overpaid for stuff like all of us have. But I can only fault myself and if I didn't want it that bad I wouldn't have paid it.

BoneRubbedBat
02-09-2009, 07:45 PM
fwiw, Bagwell gloves are one of the toughest items of Bagwell to obtain. A pair of his custom padded gloves with the hard plastic guard usually go for well over $500 here in Houston.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 07:45 PM
I think with game used "fair market value" is whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Sure Chris has done some unethical things in the past but if you agreed to pay those prices, the only one you can fault is yourself. Trust me Ive overpaid for stuff like all of us have. But I can only fault myself and if I didn't want it that bad I wouldn't have paid it.

I was naive and was misled. It won't happen again. But I just want to make other collectors aware of what Boyd's MO is so that they won't be ripped off too. Next time, I will do more research. I am not the only one who is unhappy. I have heard from no fewer than five collectors that are equally as unhappy. Yet - I can't feel angry at myself for being naive. I can only have compassion with myself and know that I made mistakes just like everybody else does.

-Frik

Vintagedeputy
02-09-2009, 07:46 PM
For $1000, I would have first asked for some photos of these well used, dipped in gold, diamond encrusted batting gloves.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 08:09 PM
Now, the only way Chris Boyd will refund the money is if it is done through the legal system. He says that fair market value for the jersey is $1200. And I paid $3275. He refuses to refund the money. What a fraud. He's now telling me that the jersey was from a friend of Jeff's in California, even though I have pictures from the guy in Colorado showing that those jerseys never came from a friend of Jeff's. I am blocking all of Chris's email addresses. I am not sure I even want to remain a member of game-used forums.

Mr.3000
02-09-2009, 08:18 PM
Now, the only way Chris Boyd will refund the money is if it is done through the legal system. He says that fair market value for the jersey is $1200. And I paid $3275. He refuses to refund the money. What a fraud. He's now telling me that the jersey was from a friend of Jeff's in California, even though I have pictures from the guy in Colorado showing that those jerseys never came from a friend of Jeff's. I am blocking all of Chris's email addresses. I am not sure I even want to remain a member of game-used forums.

I think I am confused. Please help me here.

You paid $3275. for a jersey. The seller then admits that it's only valued at $1200. then you pay $1000 for a pair of batting gloves that you now feel are only worth $250 or so.....and you now want a refund?

If that is in deed the correct trail of events, why is your overpaying his problem?

I don't think I am seeing the logic here.

While I agree that some of the sellers documented practices are less than ethical and I personally would never buy from him....I don't see how your over paying for a jersey and a pair of batting gloves constitutes thievery by the seller (i.e several times you claimed you were ripped off).

It seems to me, now this is just my take on the situation, you feel you were duped and made a few overzealous, hasty purchases. While you have every right to be angry I think your anger is misplaced.

This falls under the "live and learn" category. I would chalk it up to an expensive lesson learned.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 08:22 PM
I think I am confused. Please help me here.

You paid $3275. for a jersey. The seller then admits that it's only valued at $1200. then you pay $1000 for a pair of batting gloves that you now feel are only worth $250 or so.....and you now want a refund?

If that is in deed the correct trail of events, why is your overpaying his problem?

I don't think I am seeing the logic here.

While I agree that some of the sellers documented practices are less than ethical and I personally would never buy from him....I don't see how your over paying for a jersey and a pair of batting gloves constitutes thievery by the seller (i.e several times you claimed you were ripped off).

It seems to me, now this is just my take on the situation, you feel you were duped and made a few overzealous, hasty purchases. While you have every right to be angry I think your anger is misplaced.

This falls under the "live and learn" category. I would chalk it up to an expensive lesson learned.

So - if someone lies to you about fair market value - they can just get away with it? He first told me that fair market value was what I was buying it for. Now he tells me if I send it back I will only get $1200. Yet in his COA it says it's from an Astros clubhouse source. It's from a dealer in Colorado.

otismalibu
02-09-2009, 08:32 PM
So - if someone lies to you about fair market value - they can just get away with it?

Lying is the cornerstone of the game used memorabilia market.

Always keep that in mind.

suicide_squeeze
02-09-2009, 08:34 PM
So - if someone lies to you about fair market value - they can just get away with it? He first told me that fair market value was what I was buying it for. Now he tells me if I send it back I will only get $1200. Yet in his COA it says it's from an Astros clubhouse source. It's from a dealer in Colorado.

Frik,

I have nothing against this "Chris Boyd", don't know him, never dealt with him. Just want to make that clear. But obviously you have been hurt by a dealing you had with him......actually, two dealings it appears.

I have no idea what your feelings are in regards to lawyers, but if you feel you have a clear-cut case of misrepresentation (fraud), maybe you should make a few calls and ask for a free consultation. You will find a few that will talk to you, and possibly tell you if you have a case or not.

Just take my advice.......pay them only on "consignment", meaning they only get paid if they recover funds for you. Otherwise, it's NOT worth it no matter what they say. It would just be the case of throwing good money after bad.

Good luck in your future collecting, and don't hold a few bad dealings against this site. We all have had our share of disappoinments in our game used collecting....TRUST me.

Mr.3000
02-09-2009, 08:38 PM
So - if someone lies to you about fair market value - they can just get away with it? He first told me that fair market value was what I was buying it for. Now he tells me if I send it back I will only get $1200. Yet in his COA it says it's from an Astros clubhouse source. It's from a dealer in Colorado.


It's quite simple and has been stated more than once in this thread alone. "Fair market value" is only as much as you (the buyer) are willing to pay for an item....not what the seller tells you it is.

I'm sorry, but you overpaid. There's nothing any court, nor the BBB, will help you with in this matter. He set a price and you paid it. I still don't see the problem. With a little due diligence you could have found out that his items were severely overpriced and avoided this whole mess from the get go.

As I said, your anger is misplaced. Hopefully you avoid making the same mistakes twice. And for Pete's sake, I hope you don't intend on returning the jersey fro the $1200 refund he offered. That would only compound the mistakes already made.


Just offering my opinion on the matter,
Jay

suicide_squeeze
02-09-2009, 08:45 PM
Lying is the cornerstone of the game used memorabilia market.

Always keep that in mind.


I'll even expand on that.

I understand the cynicism, but I would say it's the old addage "You have to be smarter than the tool in your hand".

There is NOTHING like a picture match. NOTHING. It is more reliable than the athlete himself handing you an item and telling you "I wore it in a game". He could be lying. A picture-match NEVER lies. And the more pictures of the same thing, the sounder the proof.

Especially in regards to game used items, do your homework. Walking blindly into a sale, especially when it's for an item you're spending thousands of dollars on, it pays to be overly cautious and check it out as thoroughly as you can before you buy it.

Take it from me.....I learned the hard way once or twice myself. There are bad people making a living off the ones who allow them to. Learn from this and don't make the same mistakes in the future. Giving up....you are allowing this type of individual to get the best of you. Don't do that. Don't let the wrong people in the world make you feel defeated. The successful people in life all have one thing in common; They learn from their mistakes, and build on that newly found knowledge.

You are stronger now for it. Use that to YOUR advantage.:)

Mr.3000
02-09-2009, 08:48 PM
I'll even expand on that.

I understand the cynicism, but I would say it's the old addage "You have to be smarter than the tool in your hand".

There is NOTHING like a picture match. NOTHING. It is more reliable than the athlete himself handing you an item and telling you "I wore it in a game". He could be lying. A picture-match NEVER lies. And the more pictures of the same thing, the sounder the proof.

Especially in regards to game used items, do your homework. Walking blindly into a sale, especially when it's for an item you're spending thousands of dollars on, it pays to be overly cautious and check it out as thoroughly as you can before you buy it.

Take it from me.....I learned the hard way once or twice myself. There are bad people making a living off the ones who allow them to. Learn from this and don't make the same mistakes in the future. Giving up....you are allowing this type of individual to get the best of you. Don't do that. Don't let the wrong people in the world make you feel defeated. The successful people in life all have one thing in common; They learn from their mistakes, and build on that newly found knowledge.

You are stronger now for it. Use that to YOUR advantage.:)

Well said and great advice.

Ozric
02-09-2009, 08:53 PM
I may be missing something, but if the seller lied about the source of the item, then there is misrepresentation. The source of the item can directly dictate the fair market value of the item (Overpriced NFL Auctions). If the seller claimed it came from a clubhouse source and has documentation to support such source, then told her it came from a dealer after the fact, the credibility of the item has been diminished and therefore it's value. Clearly she overpaid for the item, but if it was based on false pretenses because of the advertised source, then there should be some accountability.

allstarsplus
02-09-2009, 09:09 PM
I'll even expand on that.

I understand the cynicism, but I would say it's the old addage "You have to be smarter than the tool in your hand".

There is NOTHING like a picture match. NOTHING. It is more reliable than the athlete himself handing you an item and telling you "I wore it in a game". He could be lying. A picture-match NEVER lies. And the more pictures of the same thing, the sounder the proof.

Especially in regards to game used items, do your homework. Walking blindly into a sale, especially when it's for an item you're spending thousands of dollars on, it pays to be overly cautious and check it out as thoroughly as you can before you buy it.

Take it from me.....I learned the hard way once or twice myself. There are bad people making a living off the ones who allow them to. Learn from this and don't make the same mistakes in the future. Giving up....you are allowing this type of individual to get the best of you. Don't do that. Don't let the wrong people in the world make you feel defeated. The successful people in life all have one thing in common; They learn from their mistakes, and build on that newly found knowledge.

You are stronger now for it. Use that to YOUR advantage.:)

Steve - Very well said and good advice for life in general.

I have had good dealings with Chris Boyd a few years ago so reading this thread is tough, and hopefully you and Chris can resolve your differences.

On a side-note, we can debate "what" Fair Market Value is all day long, but a integral part of the definition has to be a fair description.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 09:09 PM
I may be missing something, but if the seller lied about the source of the item, then there is misrepresentation. The source of the item can directly dictate the fair market value of the item (Overpriced NFL Auctions). If the seller claimed it came from a clubhouse source and has documentation to support such source, then told her it came from a dealer after the fact, the credibility of the item has been diminished and therefore it's value. Clearly she overpaid for the item, but if it was based on false pretenses because of the advertised source, then there should be some accountability.

Exactly. On the last thread, he told me that I got the one from the guy in Colorado, and that the one he kept had Jeff holding it and it was from California - direct from his friend. Now, he's saying the shirt was from the friend of Jeff's in California. Though I never got pics with Jeff holding my jersey. Though I do have pics of the same jersey I have from the guy in Colorado, that proves that he's lying. He can't keep his word straight, and I am glad that I won't have to deal with him again. I've blocked his email address.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 09:11 PM
On a side-note, we can debate "what" Fair Market Value is all day long, but a integral part of the definition has to be a fair description.

And a fair description includes a fair indication of provenance. Thank goodness I never have to deal with the guy again.

eGameUsed
02-09-2009, 09:23 PM
Wow, this again huh? It is amazing how a story can be made to sound in someone's side. There are multiple issues here, and I will address since Leslie has chosen to keep private dealings in the public.

First, I offered the UNMODIFED Bagwell Sam bat to Leslie for free, with the promise she report to the forum it was not altered. She refused to take it with the caveat I sell her somne cleats she desperately wants. Fine, we will play your rules. The bat is still in my possession. I had two forum members offer to sell the bat with 100% funds going to charity. I still have the bat in my possesion as the offer still stands to Leslie.

Second, even after outing me for my "business practices," Leslie still wants to buy these cleats. I know she is very much after these cleats, but from Day 1 she has been upset because I wouldn't even give her the contact I was negotiating with. Now that I do own them, she demands they be hers. Not 2 days after she destroyed me on the forum and defamed me without proper evidence, she is asking for the cleats. Even just yesterday, she asked (I paraphrase) - "Have you figured out what you are going to do with the cleats? I would really like to have them." I kindley responded I do not want to conduct business with her right now. LESLIE, IF YOU DEPLORE MY BUSINESS PRACTICES, STAY AWAY!!!! Ousting me on the forum doesn't make me want to sell items to you.

Third, Leslie's first purchase from me was a pair of Bagwell cleats. No issues I guess. Second purchase was the batting gloves. Let me enlighten you on that fun dealing. She inquired and I stated I did not have a pair for sale with the hard shell, but did have a pair void of the shell. Bagwell himself told me at a signing that he would receive one shell for every 20 pairs; hence the velcro and reusable nature. I did tell her I was not keen on selling the second pair at this time as it was my last pair available. SHE personnally kept raising the price until her final offer was $1000, paid over multiple months. That is a lot of money! The most I have sold a pair up to that point was maybe $700-750. Heck yeah I will do it. REMEMBER that she made the price, not me. I challenge anyone on this board to take a lower price than offered for an item. Who would turn that down??? She kindly paid for them over time, ahead of schedule, she received them, and was very please based on all indications. A few days later she sees a picture posted on my site of MY pair of gloves with the hard shell. She called me multiple times over a 15 minute period while I ate dinner with my wife. She insisted that I must send her the pair with the shell as I decived her. No Leslie, that pair is not available for sale. When she asked why I didn't tell her I had them, I told here they were not for sale and that is why I didn't offer them. So, accuse me of overcharging, but don't forget who made the price.

Fourth, the jersey, my favorite transaction by far. This is a long one, but I will not rehash it all. The deal started at $3000 for a unsigned jersey I offered. Again, that was a mutually agreed to price. She said it would take up to 5 months to pay for, but I told her I was getting a fair deal and this would allow her to get the item she desperately wanted. All of this after weeks of begging to make a pinstripe available. After approximately 4-6 weeks, I alerted her of another jersey that had come available, similar qualities (pinstripe, good use, etc.). She commented that autograph was weak. I then had the chance to get a third jersey, which I offered her and she liked the autograph. In the meantime, I sold the second jersey which she passed on and Bagwell did a signing at Minute Maid Park. Bagwell signed the jersey for me and then I offered her another choice. She chose the jersey she wanted. We spent hours discussing the quality of the autographs, jersey, etc. Again, I gave her complete choice over the jersey. She did agree to pay $275 more for the signed one. So, what we have here is 3 jerseys - First purchased from Lelands, Second from a relation of Jeff's in California that many items come from, and Third a collector in California with ties to the Astros clubhouse. Leslie chose the third, which she says I now deceive her. I can not tell you how many hours I spent on the phone with Leslie discussing this to help her make the choice. If you take my hourly rate my employer pays me and services rendered on this jersey, then Leslie still owes me!!! There was no deception!

Fifth, a pair of cleats Leslie did not purchase. Last year Leslie asked about other Bagwell cleats. It was a pair I recently acquired from eBay. I paid $375. She badly wanted them and kept asking and making offers. She finally stopped at $1200, when I said I really didn't want to sell them as I wanted to hold them for now. I didn't suggest that price, she did. I still have them to this day.

Sixth, I guarantee the authenticity of the items I sale for life. I will offer a 100% refund if an item is every found to be not as desctibed, or proven by 3rd part authentication. I also offer refunds withing 7 days of receipt, no questions asked. I do not offers refunds for people thinking I am a cheat, people regreting they made a purchase, 12 months after a purchase, or because I won't sell them another item. Isn't it ironic Leslie send a bunch of congenial e-mails to me, until today when I tell her I don't want to deal with her. Now she outs me again publically!

Leslie, don't bother blocking my e-mails or calls. I am not the one starting them. I am the one that needs to block you! I have asked you verbally and via e-mail to stop corresponding with me. It has turned to harrasment and your recent outbreaks on the forum are not only not warranted, but not 100% honest.

I am sorry you feel that pissing me off to get to an item I own is the best approach. Leave me alone and find someone else to harrass!

allstarsplus
02-09-2009, 09:33 PM
And a fair description includes a fair indication of provenance. Thank goodness I never have to deal with the guy again.

A TRUE indication of provenance will enhance fair market value which is why items on MLB Auctions and NFL Auctions appear to sell for large premiums.

Not everyone will disclose their true sources for an honest provenance and my favorite blanket statement is 99% of our items come direct from the player----if you hear that----think twice.

eGameUsed
02-09-2009, 09:33 PM
Exactly. On the last thread, he told me that I got the one from the guy in Colorado, and that the one he kept had Jeff holding it and it was from California - direct from his friend. Now, he's saying the shirt was from the friend of Jeff's in California. Though I never got pics with Jeff holding my jersey. Though I do have pics of the same jersey I have from the guy in Colorado, that proves that he's lying. He can't keep his word straight, and I am glad that I won't have to deal with him again. I've blocked his email address.

Okay, okay, okay, let's all stop speculating and going back in forth. Leslie, you passed up the jersey from the guy in California when you choose the bolder, stonger autograph. You opted for the 3rd jersey, which happened to be from a collector in Colorado. Your letter from me states "Astros Clubhouse Source." Some might say this is vague, but the collector in Coloardo does have a source in the clubhouse, a guy I have purchase 2 Bagwell jerseys, 1 Biggio jersey, 2 pairs of Bagwell cleats, 1 pair of Bagwell Gloves, and an awesome Biggio bat.

I also have never owned a picture of Jeff holding a Pinstripe jersey. I only have one jersey that has Jeff holding it and it is a 2000 Home Alternate White that is photographed on my website. Are you making this up or have selective hearing or what?

So, I have a question, do you want a Bagwell game used jersey from a guy in California or a Bagwell game used jersey from a guy in Colorado? I thought you wanted the Bagwell jersey that you liked the best. You chose it. Now the autograph is fading, the story is no to your liking. What's next?

If I told you I bought the Bagwell batting gloves from a kid that Bagwell tossed them to in the stands would you like them less? Are you buying the item or who after Bagwell hung it in the closet?

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 09:38 PM
So much misleading information. So many half-truths. Admit the truth, Chris, the jersey was bought for $1495 from a dealer in Colorado. They were bought from a dealer I had just as much access to as you did. I have the pictures of my jersey, sent to me by this guy in Colorado. Is he somehow lying?

No issues with those cleats. The Bagwell gloves - you made up the $1000 figure, not me. You sent me pictures, then when I wanted them, told me you weren't keen on selling them. Then you made up an outlandish price, which I accepted, because my birthday was coming up, and I wanted a present, and said it was only fair that you sell them to me.

I did not call you multiple times about the gloves. I called you once. You forget to mention that you found a pair with a plastic hard shall, and I agreed to exchange my pair, pending pictures. You then sold them, because you claimed you had a $1700 offer, even when we had an agreement. You just should tell the truth. You are not telling me the truth, and I am getting sick of it.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 09:42 PM
Man, you change your stories quickly, Chris. This is not what you told me at all over the email.

GarkoCollector
02-09-2009, 09:44 PM
No issues with those cleats. The Bagwell gloves - you made up the $1000 figure, not me. You sent me pictures, then when I wanted them, told me you weren't keen on selling them. Then you made up an outlandish price, which I accepted, because my birthday was coming up, and I wanted a present, and said it was only fair that you sell them to me. who made the decision that it was "only fair?"

I did not call you multiple times about the gloves. I called you once. You forget to mention that you found a pair with a plastic hard shall, and I agreed to exchange my pair, pending pictures. you might have requested to exchange them, but he obviously never accepted that as he intentionally didnt mention to you they were available

Les,
Just some things sticking in my mind based on the replies. They are in bold above.
Tom

eGameUsed
02-09-2009, 09:45 PM
Leslie,

Yes, the jersey you own was purchased from a dealer in Colorado. $1700 for a pair of gloves with shell, what are you talking about? I have owned two shells. One is my collection and one with another collector in Howaii. This is going to be a he said/she said thing.

Did I ever made you buy the items? No. Did you buy them at your own will? Yes. Did I made a profit? Yes!

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 09:47 PM
Les,
Just some things sticking in my mind based on the replies. They are in bold above.
Tom

He did tell me they were available. He announced that - he just got a better offer.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 09:49 PM
Leslie,

Yes, the jersey you own was purchased from a dealer in Colorado. $1700 for a pair of gloves with shell, what are you talking about? I have owned two shells. One is my collection and one with another collector in Howaii. This is going to be a he said/she said thing.

Did I ever made you buy the items? No. Did you buy them at your own will? Yes. Did I made a profit? Yes!

Refund me in full. Your stories keep changing... that's all I am asking. You told me it was fair market value.

eGameUsed
02-09-2009, 09:54 PM
Refund me in full. Your stories keep changing... that's all I am asking. You told me it was fair market value.

Leslie,

There is no such thing as fair market value; a game used item is only worth what someone is willing to pay. My story has not changed a single bit. You are just very confused. It is clear as day you have the jersey from Colorado, you say you proved that yourself.

If the value is based on the source, you should have though about that before you decided to continually trash me on this board. People buy Astros items from me as they trust my opinion and my expertise having dealt with them for 22 years.

eGameUsed
02-09-2009, 09:55 PM
Moderators,

I ask you lock this thread. It serves ZERO benefit to this board and I feel it was started to bait me into this online, yet personal battle. I do not want to be harassed any longer by Ms. Zukor.

Thanks,

Rob L
02-09-2009, 10:05 PM
This all comes down to research. Les, it sounds like you got desperate for these items and willingly bought these items for a price that you deemed fair (otherwise you wouldn't have bought it). Many of us have been burned (I've got a great Ruth autograph I'll dump for cheap). Definitely a live and learn issue. Btw, I looked at Chris' website and most of the pricing seems reasonable.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 10:05 PM
Moderators,

I ask you lock this thread. It serves ZERO benefit to this board and I feel it was started to bait me into this online, yet personal battle. I do not want to be harassed any longer by Ms. Zukor.

Thanks,

You told me my jersey came from a friend of Jeff's in California. I bought it because of that provenance. You told me this after I chose which jersey I wanted. You are not telling me the truth.

I am not harassing you. I was not the one who laughed in your face on a phone call and was really rude to you. I had said before that that I wanted no contact from you, unless it was to contact me for a refund.

You didn't respect that. I have proof from the guy in Colorado, who will also vouch for me about your business practices. You are dishonest in your dealings, and I don't want to deal with you. I am just warning your collectors.

You said people have dealt with you for 22 years. You are only 30, Chris. Just like the phony "specializing...since 1987" claim on your website. You have only been in business since 2004. I have the letters from people who won't do business with you any more to prove your mendacity.

eGameUsed
02-09-2009, 10:18 PM
Leslie,

Sounds like we are on the same page, you just are confused. I don't need the collector in CO to vouch for it. I will vouch for it. Your jersey is not from a friend in California. You do in fact have a jersey from someone in California. Strange how all of a sudden you care more about what state the jersey is from over the fact you have a Bagwell game worn jersey.

Yes, I am 30. I have been dealing in Astros game used since I was 8. A player gave me a bat in 1987, and since then I have done anything possible to obtain bats. I used to buy game used Astros bats from a man in a Houston flee market for $10-$25 each. Yes, I mowed grass to buy bats. By the age of 11, I had over 125 bats. Do I need my Dad to come on here and vouch for me and how he used to take me to the guys apartment and flee market on Saturday's to buy bats? Do I need Jim Pankovits to come on here and tell you that he gave Chris Boyd a bat over the dugout in 1987? Yes, I formed Houston Sports Investments in the late 1990s and started as a business in 2004. You have something to say about every don't you?

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 10:18 PM
The cleats were the straw that broke the camel's back. It's not just about the cleats. It's about all the transactions that led up to it. And your telling me that you were buying something and asking if I wanted it, and then never selling it to me. You have done this more than once, Chris.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 10:22 PM
Leslie,

Sounds like we are on the same page, you just are confused. I don't need the collector in CO to vouch for it. I will vouch for it. Your jersey is not from a friend in California. You do in fact have a jersey from someone in California. Strange how all of a sudden you care more about what state the jersey is from over the fact you have a Bagwell game worn jersey.

So - make this clear to me, how is this jersey from someone in California? The jersey is from someone in Colorado. You told me it was from a friened of Jeff's in California so you could get more dinero from me. How am I confused?

ndevlin
02-09-2009, 10:22 PM
For the 3rd, and hopefully final thread..... You guys need to get yourselves a room.

eGameUsed
02-09-2009, 10:25 PM
So - make this clear to me, how is this jersey from someone in California? The jersey is from someone in Colorado. You told me it was from a friened of Jeff's in California so you could get more dinero from me. How am I confused?

Damn, you are confusing me. Let me make clear since I mixed my states - You have jersey from person in Colorado. You do NOT have jersey from person in California. How does a state the jersey passed through have any relevance to the jersey. You have a game used Bagwell jersey from an Astros clubhouse sourse. End of story.

eGameUsed
02-09-2009, 10:26 PM
For the 3rd, and hopefully final thread..... You guys need to get yourselves a room.

Nate,

Thanks for helping ease my headache by making me want to vomit!

eGameUsed
02-09-2009, 10:29 PM
Sorry, got my states mixed up. Might be the massive headache I have. Instead of the major news headline being "Arod admits using Steroids," the headline should read "Leslie feels cheated and FORCED to Buy Jersey."


I meant to say


Leslie,

I don't need the collector in CO to vouch for it. I will vouch for it. Your jersey is not from a friend in California. You do in fact have a jersey from someone in COLORADO. Strange how all of a sudden you care more about what state the jersey is from over the fact you have a Bagwell game worn jersey.

Vintagedeputy
02-09-2009, 10:33 PM
Do I need Jim Pankovits to come on here and tell you that he gave Chris Boyd a bat over the dugout in 1987?

Jim Pankovits lives nearby me. I'm sure that if I asked him, he'd clear all this up.....:)

Leslie, whatever the issue is between you two, should remain between you two. You OBVIOUSLY didnt do your research and paid more for something than just about anyone here would have. I dont know Chris, but as a fellow business owner, kudos to him for turning a profit. If he can get a tremendous price for an item and you dont question it or refuse the item at the price stipulated, then quite honestly that's your fault for not doing your homework. You should research dealers first and have some idea what you're buying and whether its a "fair market price".

You seem to have this thing where you come on here whining about something every few weeks. I collect NY Giants stuff and they tanked in the playoffs. I collect Washington Nationals stuff and they cant even play .500 ball. I've got lots of reasons to complain about the stuff I bought but I dont because I'm happy with my collection.

Please, for the sanity of everyone here, give it a rest.

bigtime59
02-09-2009, 10:36 PM
A TRUE indication of provenance will enhance fair market value which is why items on MLB Auctions and NFL Auctions appear to sell for large premiums.

Not everyone will disclose their true sources for an honest provenance and my favorite blanket statement is 99% of our items come direct from the player----if you hear that----think twice.

Well, and also because it's frickin' amateur hour over at MLB.com. That's why I hate charity auctions: things wind up going for far more than they're worth (or far more than I can afford, which is the same thing to me!).

Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

mbrieve
02-09-2009, 10:40 PM
Having read both threads pertaining to the Chris Boyd - Les Zukor dealings, it seems pretty clear that someone has a bit of buyer's remorse.

I think one thing that a lot of people are missing is that every game used item is unique and special, therefore it is not always easy to determine fair market value.

Also, sports memorabilia is an extremely volatile market. How many people do you think bought an Alex Rodriguez item one week ago and regret it a little bit now?

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 10:40 PM
Sorry, got my states mixed up. Might be the massive headache I have. Instead of the major news headline being "Arod admits using Steroids," the headline should read "Leslie feels cheated and FORCED to Buy Jersey."


I meant to say

Now, you are mocking me. Chris - you and A-Rod have something in common. Both of you lied when there was something in it for you. I just received another email about your business practices, and another person is disgusted but won't say anything on the forum. You get your money in life from cheating and indimidating people.

bigtime59
02-09-2009, 10:40 PM
And another thing: if buyers are gonna be stupid, it's not the seller's responsibility to say to them "you know you're seriously overpaying for this item".
I had an eBay sale once that I refer to as "the Miracle of __________" (player's name not revealed to protect the buyer). A common G/U road jersey that went for waaaaaaaaaaay more than I thought it would. Did I tell that buyer that I'd give it to him for less because I thought he was "over paying"? Hell, no! No more so than any buyer has offered to make up the difference for me when I was selling an item at a loss.
S*** happens. Do your homework.
And if you're a seller: don't be a Schrutebag.
Thanks.

Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

Rob L
02-09-2009, 10:43 PM
Jeez, end the drama. Considering a refund after all of this would be ludicrous.

GarkoCollector
02-09-2009, 10:47 PM
This is now akin to a brutal car accident...
You know how it turned out but cant help but look anyhow.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 10:47 PM
Jim Pankovits lives nearby me. I'm sure that if I asked him, he'd clear all this up.....:)

Leslie, whatever the issue is between you two, should remain between you two. You OBVIOUSLY didnt do your research and paid more for something than just about anyone here would have. I dont know Chris, but as a fellow business owner, kudos to him for turning a profit. If he can get a tremendous price for an item and you dont question it or refuse the item at the price stipulated, then quite honestly that's your fault for not doing your homework. You should research dealers first and have some idea what you're buying and whether its a "fair market price".

If Chris were truly honorable, he would give me a 100% refund. He would say, "I am sorry you are not happy with your item or the signature on it. I want you always to be happy in transactions, so I want to guarantee customer satisfaction." But he didn't. He will only give me $1200 in exchange for a jersey I paid $3275 for. Someone who is just looking to make a buck. On the phone, he told me that I had the jersey from the friend of Jeff's in California. Now in print, he tells me that I have the jersey from the guy in Colorado. Which is it? So misleading. I should have stopped having anything to do with this guy long ago.


You seem to have this thing where you come on here whining about something every few weeks. I collect NY Giants stuff and they tanked in the playoffs. I collect Washington Nationals stuff and they cant even play .500 ball. I've got lots of reasons to complain about the stuff I bought but I dont because I'm happy with my collection.

Please, for the sanity of everyone here, give it a rest.

I don't just come on here whining. There are things in the hobby that should be mentioned. And it's only fair to do them justice. If you are a business owner, perhaps you don't see things from the eyes of the little guy, namely, the collector. I have every right to come on here. But if you would rather I not come on here, that's fine. I don't need to be on here, and the Chris Boyds of this world make me regret ever signing up for this forum.

GarkoCollector
02-09-2009, 10:49 PM
Les,
I still dont get why you were still trying to deal with him for those cleats if you didnt like how he handled the jersey OR glove situation.

Vintagedeputy
02-09-2009, 10:49 PM
don't be a Schrutebag.





http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/Rainn_Wilson.jpg

mbrieve
02-09-2009, 10:50 PM
Les,
I still dont get why you were still trying to deal with him for those cleats if you didnt like how he handled the jersey OR glove situation.

That is the million dollar question...

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 10:51 PM
Jeez, end the drama. Considering a refund after all of this would be ludicrous.

I asked him for a refund before any of this. He refused. The world world be better if everybody's mother would give their kid the ethics lesson that I got from my Mom when I was younger. And that is to treat others the way you would want to be treated. If Chris's contacts behaved just like Chris does to him, then he would have lost the love for collecting long ago. But they don't. I remember when I was in third grade and I got a steal from a guy who didn't know anything about Magic cards, and my parents informed me that actually I was ripping the kid off. They were extremely angry, and they said what if somebody did that to you? And to this day, I have never misled anybody about fair market value for anything I owned. I wouldn't lie about my sources. But Chris has absolutely no remorse about his mendacity.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 10:53 PM
Les,
I still dont get why you were still trying to deal with him for those cleats if you didnt like how he handled the jersey OR glove situation.

I thought that maybe he had learned his lesson about how to treat people, and would do fair and honest business with me in the future. I thought that people could change, and I told him that I would give him that opportunity to change his business practices. And when he didn't, telling me he would get me pictures and then never doing as such, and when he starts attacking me over email, because I said that I am still unhappy over the way he treated me, then I obviously didn't want anything to do with him again. I have complained to the BBB and have the words of several other collectors to back up what I am saying. It's not like I am the only one who has had problems with the guy.

Rob L
02-09-2009, 10:54 PM
Yep, give me back money, but I need those cleats. Makes little sense.

Vintagedeputy
02-09-2009, 10:55 PM
But if you would rather I not come on here, that's fine. I don't need to be on here, and the Chris Boyds of this world make me regret ever signing up for this forum.

I dont care if you are here or not, doesnt bother me in the least. I just think you should take this disagreement somewhere else, small claims court, wherever. You keep threatening to leave but yet, you remain. You keep complaining but you dont do anything about it.

The man is a dealer. He made a profit on something and if he buys it back, he's going to pay less for it. That's business. You have buyer's remorse. I could spend 2 hours telling you about a 1985 Dan Pasqua jersey that I probably overpaid for, but I dont.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 10:57 PM
I dont care if you are here or not, doesnt bother me in the least. I just think you should take this disagreement somewhere else, small claims court, wherever. You keep threatening to leave but yet, you remain. You keep complaining but you dont do anything about it.

The man is a dealer. He made a profit on something and if he buys it back, he's going to pay less for it. That's business. You have buyer's remorse. I could spend 2 hours telling you about a 1985 Dan Pasqua jersey that I probably overpaid for, but I dont.

What I don't understand is why fair market value for my jersey last February was $2500-$3500. Then, in Chris Boyd's words, today "fair market value" is $1200. Does a Bagwell jersey lose 2/3 its value in one year? Or did Chris rip me off?

Rboitano
02-09-2009, 10:58 PM
I never thought Bagwell items brought that kind of money. $3200 for a jersey? WOW! $1000 batting gloves? Insanity!

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 11:00 PM
Yep, give me back money, but I need those cleats. Makes little sense.

That's not what I was saying. I was saying that I had decided that perhaps Chris would learn his lesson over everything else he had done, to be straight and honest with people. Sadly, that's not the case. He has 10 different versions of every story, and I don't know what to believe when. Which is why I don't want anything from him, even if he paid me to take it.

TNTtoys
02-09-2009, 11:02 PM
I never thought Bagwell items brought that kind of money. $3200 for a jersey? WOW! $1000 batting gloves? Insanity!

Hey, I bought 200 shares of Citicorp at 19.00, and boy did I think I was paying fair market value then...

Imagine a world where one can lose $3K on a bad investment that appeared to be sound, and then return the purchase 1 year later for full money back.

And during that purchase, I believe I was "misled" too. Citicorp just finished a US Government backed deal to acquire Wachovia at a steal. 1 week later deemed "too big to fail."

Vintagedeputy
02-09-2009, 11:02 PM
Does a Bagwell jersey lose 2/3 its value in one year? Or did Chris rip me off?

Neither! YOU OVERPAID! Chris put a price on something and you paid it. That's business!

I recently found out that a group of people were paying $180 for something that I can give them for $80. If they are dumb enough to pay that, so be it!

markize
02-09-2009, 11:04 PM
What I don't understand is why fair market value for my jersey last February was $2500-$3500. Then, in Chris Boyd's words, today "fair market value" is $1200. Does a Bagwell jersey lose 2/3 its value in one year? Or did Chris rip me off?

I'm way too lazy to go back and count, but I think it has been stated maybe a dozen times in this thread that "fair market value" is what a person is willing to pay for an item. Maybe Chris is only willing to pay $1200.

On another note, thank you Chris for "threatning, and intimidating" me into buying the Soriano Nationals wristband for $35 delivered.

Mark

Mr.3000
02-09-2009, 11:06 PM
I thought that maybe he had learned his lesson about how to treat people, and would do fair and honest business with me in the future. Mistake number 3....if my count is correct.




I thought that people could change Mistake number 4.





I told him that I would give him that opportunity to change his business practices.


Sorry, but with those quotes...especially the last one....you are now sounding more like a crackpot. Who are you to give anyone a chance to change their business practices? What planet do you reside on? This not a Utopian society.


If you are unhappy, it's ABUNDANTLY clear that you are, with how Chris Boyd does business...guess what? STOP BUYING FROM HIM.

He's not going to give you a refund, as I am sure no one here would. Live and learn. Chalk it up to experience and move on. If you need to get out of the hobby then do so. Otherwise find another source for your Bagwell items. You claim that one of his sources were readily available to you....buy from them.

If I am coming off as too harsh, perhaps it's because of the ridiculousness of your demands and complaints.....in this thread and many others.

Rboitano
02-09-2009, 11:06 PM
I think you know when you are overpaying for an item. I have overpaid for items, not near as drastic as this case. It just depends on how bad you really want that item, and must know that if you plan to sell that item in the future you will not get that much back in return. Last year I purchased three Andruw Jones bats for $275 each, now they are worth $125, if that? We all make mistakes

GarkoCollector
02-09-2009, 11:07 PM
I thought that maybe he had learned his lesson about how to treat people, and would do fair and honest business with me in the future. I thought that people could change, and I told him that I would give him that opportunity to change his business practices. And when he didn't, telling me he would get me pictures and then never doing as such, and when he starts attacking me over email, because I said that I am still unhappy over the way he treated me, then I obviously didn't want anything to do with him again. I have complained to the BBB and have the words of several other collectors to back up what I am saying. It's not like I am the only one who has had problems with the guy.

Sounds more like it was more important for you to get what you wanted than it was for him to "learn a lesson." Why did he need to change his business practices? Because you thought he should? They apparently werent so appalling that you couldnt continue to try to deal with him.

Might be best to cut your losses, move on and never deal with Chris again. He can sell for any price he chooses, even if way overpriced just like you can drastically overpay for something because you want to.

buc
02-09-2009, 11:11 PM
MODERATORS:
For the love of all that is good and holy, please lock me up! I've continued to waste peoples time by drawing them in, yet I'm not leading them anywhere.
Regards,
This Thread

P.S. If I ever decide to rear my ugly head again, please lock me up immediately.

gameused fan
02-09-2009, 11:11 PM
Les,

I feel the need to pay you back for the fine advice you gave me when I was freaking out a couple week ago.

"Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's only clothing. I mean, there are plenty of other things to be depressed about than what you could have bought. I know what regret is like, but seriously, man, it's a jersey. It's not like you are dealing with the death of a friend, failure, or clinical depression. There will be a "next time" to make money. Just pass it off as a lesson learned, and you'll be fine next time."

-- Les, right after I was crying because I lost out on a Santonio Holmes jersey that I was hoping to flip for major coin, only to find out a week later it really wouldn't have made me major coin.

So, my advice? There are plenty of other things to be depressed about than what you bought. I know what regret is like, but seriously, girl, it's a jersey. It's not like you are dealing with finding out that Bagwell did roids back in the day, (even though he might have, which would then really kill the value of your items. Just kidding. Sort of), failure or clinical depression.

There will be a "next time" in this hobby for you. Just pass it off as a lesson learned, and you'll be cool next time.

Mr.3000
02-09-2009, 11:12 PM
What I don't understand is why fair market value for my jersey last February was $2500-$3500. Then, in Chris Boyd's words, today "fair market value" is $1200. Does a Bagwell jersey lose 2/3 its value in one year? Or did Chris rip me off?

Neither Leslie.

You both agreed on a price and you paid it. Hind sight is 20/20. And for the umpteenth time..."fair market value" is extremely subjective. It's what a buyer is willing to pay. You agreed to pay a certain price, you set the value for that item. Just because an identical item sells for less does not make you entitled to a refund...partial or otherwise.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 11:12 PM
If I am coming off as too harsh, perhaps it's because of the ridiculousness of your demands and complaints.....in this thread and many others.

My only demand is that people act fairly and ethically. And that they be held accountable for their actions. If that is ridiculous, then I am saddened by your definition of what fairness is. I sometimes wonder why I waste time with people who don't share my sense of what moral is.

The problem is that people in our society can get away with whatever they want and not be held accountable. A-Rod can get away with cheating, because he's only human. We forgive rich athletes for anything. And Chris would be able to get away with anything, because he has more money than I do.

Lying, misrepresenting one's sources, etc. are all wrong actions! Thank goodness that not everyone in this world is like Chris Boyd. Perhaps I was naive to believe that Chris Boyd could become fair and ethical and not have business practices that are immoral.

Rob L
02-09-2009, 11:13 PM
What I don't understand is why fair market value for my jersey last February was $2500-$3500. Then, in Chris Boyd's words, today "fair market value" is $1200. Does a Bagwell jersey lose 2/3 its value in one year? Or did Chris rip me off?

The answer is yes! You bought the jersey at a price you agreed upon. Now you would pay $1200. So yes, the value dropped. Btw, $1200 for a Bagwell is high.

Dewey2007
02-09-2009, 11:13 PM
Although everyone has made good points I think this thread would go quietly into the night if everyone stopped adding their two cents. I think this thread is up a $1.38 and counting.

Let's get back to the lighter side of the hobby...

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 11:14 PM
Les,

I feel the need to pay you back for the fine advice you gave me when I was freaking out a couple week ago.

"Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's only clothing. I mean, there are plenty of other things to be depressed about than what you could have bought. I know what regret is like, but seriously, man, it's a jersey. It's not like you are dealing with the death of a friend, failure, or clinical depression. There will be a "next time" to make money. Just pass it off as a lesson learned, and you'll be fine next time."

-- Les, right after I was crying because I lost out on a Santonio Holmes jersey that I was hoping to flip for major coin, only to find out a week later it really wouldn't have made me major coin.

So, my advice? There are plenty of other things to be depressed about than what you bought. I know what regret is like, but seriously, girl, it's a jersey. It's not like you are dealing with finding out that Bagwell did roids back in the day, (even though he might have, which would then really kill the value of your items. Just kidding. Sort of), failure or clinical depression.

There will be a "next time" in this hobby for you. Just pass it off as a lesson learned, and you'll be cool next time.

Thank you.

frikativ54
02-09-2009, 11:15 PM
The answer is yes! You bought the jersey at a price you agreed upon. Now you would pay $1200. So yes, the value dropped. Btw, $1200 for a Bagwell is high.

What is a fair price for a Bagwell, just so I know?

GarkoCollector
02-09-2009, 11:16 PM
I sometimes wonder why I waste time with people who don't share my sense of what moral is.



That seems to be a continuing issue...you feel that people are wrong if they dont think the way you do. I think you are wrong for feeling that way. Which one of us is wrong?

gameused fan
02-09-2009, 11:17 PM
Plus, if it makes you feel any better, I once spent $225 on a game-used Military hat worn by Tony Gwynn.

Yeah, not the Tony Gwynn who had 3,000 hits. But his kid, who still can't play worth a lick for the Brewers.

It wasn't a good purchase at the time. Now, it's even worse. I don't feel good about myself. I often wonder what the hell I was thinking. But, we live and learn.

If anybody wants to buy a Tony Gwynn Jr. game-used hat, I'll give it to you for $230. It's actually fair market value, if you consider what I paid for it. I even have it photo matched.

Aw, heck, first guy or gal who offers $200 for it, I'll take it!

Mr.3000
02-09-2009, 11:21 PM
My only demand is that people act fairly and ethically. And that they be held accountable for their actions. If that is ridiculous, then I am saddened by your definition of what fairness is. I sometimes wonder why I waste time with people who don't share my sense of what moral is.

The problem is that people in our society can get away with whatever they want and not be held accountable. A-Rod can get away with cheating, because he's only human. We forgive rich athletes for anything. And Chris would be able to get away with anything, because he has more money than I do.

Lying, misrepresenting one's sources, etc. are all wrong actions! Thank goodness that not everyone in this world is like Chris Boyd. Perhaps I was naive to believe that Chris Boyd could become fair and ethical and not have business practices that are immoral.

The ridiculousness I was referring to was your demand of a refund. You know that as well as anyone else reading this thread. Your severely overpaying for an item has zero to do with A-Rod, how much you earn, how much money Chris Boyd has or ethics.

Buyers remorse hurts. I am sure we all have tasted it at one time or another. But it doesn't entitle any of us to refunds.

I suppose it's time for me to chime in with the masses and ask that this thread please be locked. This thread is far past pointless.

gameused fan
02-09-2009, 11:26 PM
But, seriously, before this gets locked up somebody really can have the Gwynn Jr. hat for $200.

OK. I've stopped being productive here. I promise I'm done posting in this thread. But, again, you can have the hat for $200.

GarkoCollector
02-09-2009, 11:32 PM
But, seriously, before this gets locked up somebody really can have the Gwynn Jr. hat for $200.

OK. I've stopped being productive here. I promise I'm done posting in this thread. But, again, you can have the hat for $200.

I'll give you 750.00 for it even though the fair market value is probably somewhere closer to 12.00 and 3 bottlecaps

Rob L
02-09-2009, 11:34 PM
What is a fair price for a Bagwell, just so I know?

Way less than $1000 for a jersey. Very good player? Yes. Superstar? No. However, you are a Bagwell collector. You ultimately set the price. You were happy a year ago. A year later, you decide your not happy. It isn't fair. Not to be offensive, but you have the college-age idealism. I had it too. Twenty years later, and I understand how things work. Nothing ultimately appears wrong with the deal. This is how business works.

Vintagedeputy
02-09-2009, 11:34 PM
I found the answer to the eternal question - Fair market value for a Bagwell jersey (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pity+party)

Fnazxc0114
02-09-2009, 11:36 PM
frik you didnt get ripped off. what you did was just a result of ignorance.

Fnazxc0114
02-09-2009, 11:44 PM
i have just read 8 pages of this crap and i can honostly say that i feel dumber and that there was a lot less drama on here about two-three months ago. can anyone tell me why that is?

grenda12
02-09-2009, 11:44 PM
I found the answer to the eternal question - Fair market value for a Bagwell jersey (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pity+party)

Nice!

Rboitano
02-09-2009, 11:49 PM
Who is Jeff Bagwell anyway?
Haha just kidding

Vintagedeputy
02-09-2009, 11:49 PM
i have just read 8 pages of this crap and i can honostly say that i feel dumber and that there was a lot less drama on here about two-three months ago. can anyone tell me why that is?


Join Date: 12-13-2007 to be precise........

jkalathas
02-09-2009, 11:49 PM
i have just read 8 pages of this crap and i can honostly say that i feel dumber and that there was a lot less drama on here about two-three months ago. can anyone tell me why that is?

Sure... frikativ54

flaco1801
02-09-2009, 11:54 PM
for the money he charged you, he should name his next child in your honor. how could you in good conscience charge her that much? i think you took advantage of her regardless even if she begged you, she was uninformed and you just bled her thats just my opinion

chakes89
02-10-2009, 12:17 AM
You want "Fair Market Value?"

Put each Bagwell item on eBay with a $.99 opening bid and see how much you get

Rob L
02-10-2009, 12:51 AM
Classic! Everyone hates drama on this board, yet this thread has over 1900 views vs. Aroid threads that have 900 to 950 views. Board drama always wins!:D

nick1980
02-10-2009, 03:53 AM
No offense but I wouldn't pay $400 for a Bagwell jersey even with a letter straight from him with a picture of him wearing it, unless I knew someone would buy it from me for much more!!!
To get to the facts here yes you overpaid no it is not a crime to overcharge someone it happens everyday and is part of capitalism. One person has something someone else wants and they come to a price the person who wants it will pay. It sounds like you two did this as far has his "source" in this industry you have to take a lot of everything with large grains of salt. Read the book Operation Bullpen it will teach you a lot. Tony Gwynn once said if you didn't see him sign it with your two eyes then he didn't sign it. You can't believe everything in this industry that is why 90% of Ali's and Jordans on ebay are fakes and 99% of Obama's on ebay are fake you just can't trust everyone. All I can say is learn from this and educate yourself and hopefully it won't happen again.




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