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View Full Version : OT: Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'



kingjammy24
01-29-2009, 06:57 PM
Manny Ramirez: 'No one wants to sign me'
That's what the slugger's friend Albert Pujols says Ramirez told him. Pujols wants Cardinals to get in the process

Associated Press

Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic -- Albert Pujols is encouraging the St. Louis Cardinals to sign Manny Ramirez.

The Cardinals slugger, who won his second NL MVP award in November, acknowledged the team might not have enough money to land the free-agent outfielder

"I speak with Manny every three days and he tells me, 'Man, no one wants to sign me,' Pujols said today during a news conference. "I'm not an agent or general manager, but I can't understand how Manny has not signed."

Pujols passed along Ramirez's telephone number to St. Louis manager Tony La Russa.

"Maybe St. Louis doesn't have the money to sign him, but he could give them a discount because St. Louis is a great city that supports its players," Pujols said.

Pujols plans to play for the Dominican Republic in the upcoming World Baseball Classic. He is coming off surgery on his right elbow.

"I'll represent the Dominican Republic while I'm healthy," he said. "The only thing that can stop me is if I feel any discomfort."
----------------------------------------------------------------

rudy.

Rboitano
01-29-2009, 07:27 PM
The Cardinals cant afford anyone. They like to pick their starting lineup from the scrap heap every year, and the great local media sells it to the fans as a "great pickup". They have a large fan base, and have no problem selling tickets. They just have a problem spending some of that money on some players.

Rob L
01-29-2009, 07:32 PM
Torii Hunter was on a local radio station and said he had a few sources that said to not be surprised if the Manny ends up in an Angels uniform. Here's to wishful thinking!!

camarokids
01-29-2009, 07:33 PM
I hope no one signs him!

But as long as team keep paying players HUGE contracts like CC, AROD, Texiera and so on. The players will demand big bucks.

It would be cool if Manny sits out because no one will pay him the money.

Any bets the Yankees sign him?????

Who has the biggest contract? Arod?

I know CC has the biggest contract for a pitcher...

David
01-29-2009, 07:35 PM
The Dodgers offered Ramirez a contract and he turned it down. That throws out the "No one wants to sign me" argument.

allstarsplus
01-29-2009, 08:26 PM
I hope no one signs him!



I know it is too much to dream, but wouldn't it be nice if no team signed him.

markize
01-29-2009, 08:30 PM
Did Manny turn the Dodgers down, or was it Scott Boras?

Mark

FastLane80
01-29-2009, 08:37 PM
Ned Colletti and Scott Boras are in a starring contest. Once someone flinches, he'll end up in a Dodger uniform. No one else has the money to sign him and Boras is starting to sound like a used car salesman by saying "I've had many people looking at it. You better pick it up before someone else does!" :rolleyes:

metsbats
01-29-2009, 08:47 PM
Let's see what we have here. ManRam who didn't hide the fact that all he wanted was the most money he can get (remember his "price of oils going up" comment) represented by Boras who is the epitome of agent greed.

Well since then the economys down, the price of oil is down and so will the price of Manny's next contract.

Maybe Pujols can share some of his big contract $$ with Manny to help the Cardinals sign him.

eisenreich8
01-29-2009, 09:00 PM
I, too, as a lifelong Red Sox fan, would love to see that jughead go unsigned, but can you say: accusations of collusion? Could that be a predictable outcome?

gamer35
01-29-2009, 11:41 PM
I, too, as a lifelong Red Sox fan, would love to see that jughead go unsigned, but can you say: accusations of collusion? Could that be a predictable outcome?

Yea, a lifelong Red Sox fan who would have had 2 less World Championships if that "jughead" was not on the team. Some fan you are...

xpress34
01-29-2009, 11:47 PM
I, too, as a lifelong Red Sox fan, would love to see that jughead go unsigned, but can you say: accusations of collusion? Could that be a predictable outcome?

Hard to claim collusion when an offer has been extended (Dodgers)... Bonds tried claiming that last year because no team wanted to take him up on his DEMAND of $15mil for a one year deal regardless of when he started the season or how much playing time he actually put in...

I'm just thankful my wife and I both have our jobs, house and cars and these overpaid millionaire cry babies act like they're being ripped off...

Give me a break.

Aksflyest
01-30-2009, 12:03 AM
As a life long ManRam fan, I guess I'm alittle biased but I hope to see the man get picked up soon. He is hands down one of the greatest right hand hitters of all time regardless of how you feel about him personally.

It was dissapointing to see how things ended in boston..but I wasn't there so I can't speculate on why it happened or what happened behind the scenes that caused things to get so ugly so fast. Headcases like Milton Bradley get contracts, 2nd 3rd 4th 5th chances, and welcomed with open arms into a new team I would hope a future hall of famer would be able to get the same chance...

Keeping my fingers crossed that one day I wake up I see the tribe opened the wallet and brought him home to finish his career..but I think I've got a better shot of seeing the Browns win a damn championship before that happens!

Just my two cents...

suicide_squeeze
01-30-2009, 10:45 AM
Aksflyest........you are absolutely correct. Manny is one of the greatest right hand power hitters of all time.

He electrified Dodger Stadium with his timely and monumental blasts in the latter part of last season. It was magical once again going to a Dodger game.

What I don't understand about all of his critics is simply this: Why is not entitled to seek out what his market value is? I believe he has earned his due.

Boston fans (at least the Manny-bashers), and their management, ought to be ashamed of the way they treated him while he was there, and now, after he's gone. The team signed him to a HUGE contract.......and I don't believe ANYONE will argue this FACT.....he delivered.

He was a free-spirirted dude, for sure.......but how can you condemn a guy because he doesn't "sit down, shut up, and be a proper respectful little servant"....like the Boston area demanded he be. You have to let an artist BE an artist......and if that's using the head between inning in the Green Monster.....go with it! Have a laugh with him.

But to start breaking the guy down, calling him "selfish, egotisticle, etc." when he's the superstar on your team? You all may seem to forget, after all the "Manny being Manny" garbage started, the team showed him the ultimate disrespect by WAIVING him to get rid of his contract. When no one picked it up, did Manny hold a grudge? Did he wine and complain? NO, all Manny did was take the freaking team on his shoulders to a World Series, earned the World Series MVP for you Boston brats, and in doing so ended am 86 year "Curse of the Bambino".

Then, LARGELY because of Manny's bat, you unworthy's won another World Series.

So the Manny bashing continued. Yeah, he became unhappy with it, and finally manned up and did something about it. I loved it. I LOVED HOW he stuck it to you spoiled fans and management in Boston, and.....I don't blame him. You all made his life miserable. So he left, and quite frankly, he SHOWED you what you did. You, not "Manny-being-Manny"....were the problem, Boston.

This is PROFESSIONAL baseball, people. You can't just "turn it on" because you "want to" like Manny did for the Dodgers. He just got himself into a better environment. And, after the Dodgers resign him (and PLEASE, make no mistake about it, the Dodgers WILL resign him....it's their biggest off-season goal), he will be playing for ......not the MONEY, Boston, he'll already have that.......his legacy.

And he'll climb the all-time home-run chart, and probably lead the Dodgers to their next World Series championship.

Thanks for the selfish and rediculously misdirected hatred to your best player, BOSTON. It's kind of fun watching your GM squirm, and make all of these silly acquisitions of all these recovering injured players in an attempt to pace the Yankees.

Without Manny.....you're nothing but a runner up.....hope you injoyed your World Championships while he was there, because it's over until your next once-in-a-lifetime "Manny" comes along again.

suicide_squeeze
01-30-2009, 10:50 AM
P.S. Sorry for the typo's and misspells.......I was in a hurry!:o

Mr.3000
01-30-2009, 11:08 AM
I've always had the same opinion of Manny. That is that I think he's a knucklehead at times, a goofball at others. He is so far below average for a outfielder it isn't funny.

That's said, he is one of the greatest hitters of our time. I'd go as far as saying he's one of the better hitters of all time. He's an RBI machine.

Knucklehead or not, I'd take him on my team in a heartbeat.

kellsox
01-30-2009, 12:16 PM
Reason he's not signed:
He quit on his team. He faked an injury(sent to get an MRI on his sore knee, forgot which knee hurt, they took an MRI on both and both came up clean, traded days lasted and magically became healthy batting 400 in the NL)). As an owner/coach/or teammate, it would be very hard to put trust in him. Nobody wants to invest that much money in an employee and not know if he is going to do his job from day to day. Players are all for each other getting the biggest contracts that they can, but they will not tolerate a bad teammate. At the end, it was the Boston players as much as management that had enough of Manny

eisenreich8
01-30-2009, 12:43 PM
Yea, a lifelong Red Sox fan who would have had 2 less World Championships if that "jughead" was not on the team. Some fan you are...


I'm assuming that's a form of your "dry" sense of humor, and not a snarky brand of wisecrack. The man is a spoiled classless bum, I separate the type of person from the type of player when I say that, as any "fan" of Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and Palmeiro can attest, pitiful actions on their parts also ruined their reps. Ramirez caused more controversy and dismay among his "fans", and teammates and employers than you are aware of, apparently.

I suppose I can thank Ramirez for his monumental contributions to the two World Championships, without advocating for his lack of class and decency in other regards. I'll run my future posts by you to edit for suitable content.

eisenreich8
01-30-2009, 01:04 PM
And I don't bash JUST Manyy out of spite as a Boston fan. The entertainment world in general takes hits for what are real or perceived shortcomings in the course of their "artistic" performances, ie Tom Cruise and his odd behavior over the years, plus being labeled a "bad match" for his role in Valkyrie, Madonna's dalliances with a married superstar ballplayer, Varitek cheating on his family.

Manny's legacy in Boston was not fed by anything other than his bat. He was unable and/or unwilling to contribute in any other area, as a fielder, mentor or team ambassador. Before you laugh, consider that the Red Sox have had a children's cancer research charity for many years (55?) known as the Jimmy Fund. It's taken very seriously and is part of the heartbeat of that franchise. Manny was averse to any connection with that organization, even when sick children were literally right outside the Pahk hoping to get a few moments with him. This was all reported in the Boston papers. He did not HAVE to do anything above and beyond swinging his monster bat for the Sox, but he did virtually nothing else expected from or by the team and community, for all the years he was there. It had virtually nothing to do with fans climbing all over him and harassing him due to his oddball behavior during his days in Boston, as he to this day has many fans in Boston, but with his sitting out the big stuff, except where he benefitted from it.

Nomar, on the other hand, hosted charity bowling and was adored by the fans, until he, too, started sitting out the big stuff. Management has worked well in recent years with well-rounded players who are decent people. Nixon, Lowell, Wake, Timlin, et al. When the attitude starts to rise, ala Pedro, Damon, Clemens, Varitek, they show no mercy. It is a business, and they have done pretty well at conducting it as such.

Manny wasn't around for the late season push to the playoffs last season, the Sox were on out away from the WS, and Jason Bay filled in admirably in Manny's absence. I wish Manny well, it's just that he is not missed in Boston.

Mr.3000
01-30-2009, 01:30 PM
My personal opinion is that I don't care what a player does or says off the field. The media is way too involved with athletes these days.

I wonder how many players we idolize from the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's beat their wives, cheated, were homosexual....and we never knew, therefore we didn't care.

I submit that some fans only care today because it is all over the media, 24/7.


I am a fan of the sport and a fan of the athlete...and what he does ON THE FIELD.

I want to see Manny hit the ball, drive in runs and hit HR's. I don't pay for my ticket to sit and wonder what charity he involves himself with or whether or not he's a faithful spouse.

Ballplayers are paid to play ball...not be perfect.

Players are people too. Yes they are often spoiled primadonnas but who are we to try and dictate how they live their lives off the field? Try telling your neighbor he has to go to church or that he must give to a charity. I'd wager that wouldn't fare to well for you.


And yes, Manny doesn't contribute much other than his bat. What about Bob Uecker. Did he contribute much more than catching? What about Edgar Martinez? He was all bat as well. Maybe Manny should be back in the AL and moved to DH.


I respect the uber straight and narrow players....but I don't begrudge the ones that aren't perfect.

godwulf
01-30-2009, 02:20 PM
P.S. Sorry for the typo's and misspells.......I was in a hurry!

Yeah, I know how that is...trying to get everything typed before your head explodes, huh? :D


I suppose I can thank Ramirez for his monumental contributions to the two World Championships, without advocating for his lack of class and decency in other regards.

Absolutely. Randy Johnson was a tower of pitching awesomeness for the DBacks in '01...I still get gooseflesh thinking about him walking slowly out to the mound to pitch relief in the bottom of the eighth in Game 7, after starting and getting the win in Game 6...but he's also a childish, inconsiderate jerk, and nothing he ever did for the team is gonna blind me to that reality.


I wonder how many players we idolize from the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's beat their wives, cheated, were homosexual....and we never knew, therefore we didn't care.

Not to try to steer this thread off-track or anything - and certainly not with the intention of starting any rumors about myself - but...does that third item really belong on the list of "transgressions and offenses" for which an athlete (or anybody else) should be thought less of?

Mr.3000
01-30-2009, 02:24 PM
godwulf,

It was merely an example to say that we shouldn't know as much as we do about players.

It falls into the category of "Who cares what their sexual orientation is, or the religion, or anything else that doesn't fall inbetween the chalk lines".


I could have been more clear.

kellsox
01-30-2009, 02:55 PM
My personal opinion is that I don't care what a player does or says off the field. The media is way too involved with athletes these days.

I wonder how many players we idolize from the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's beat their wives, cheated, were homosexual....and we never knew, therefore we didn't care.

I submit that some fans only care today because it is all over the media, 24/7.


I am a fan of the sport and a fan of the athlete...and what he does ON THE FIELD.

I want to see Manny hit the ball, drive in runs and hit HR's. I don't pay for my ticket to sit and wonder what charity he involves himself with or whether or not he's a faithful spouse.

Ballplayers are paid to play ball...not be perfect.

Players are people too. Yes they are often spoiled primadonnas but who are we to try and dictate how they live their lives off the field? Try telling your neighbor he has to go to church or that he must give to a charity. I'd wager that wouldn't fare to well for you.


And yes, Manny doesn't contribute much other than his bat. What about Bob Uecker. Did he contribute much more than catching? What about Edgar Martinez? He was all bat as well. Maybe Manny should be back in the AL and moved to DH.


I respect the uber straight and narrow players....but I don't begrudge the ones that aren't perfect.

The issue was that the team didn't know if he would be willing to take the field and contribute- his being traded had nothing to do with personal life but more to do with reliability. He didn't like his contract status(the mega deal that he agreed to, along the 2 option years that his party insisted on) and he put up a stink, eventually trying to talk himself out of the starting lineup.

Mr.3000
01-30-2009, 03:11 PM
The issue was that the team didn't know if he would be willing to take the field and contribute- his being traded had nothing to do with personal life but more to do with reliability. He didn't like his contract status(the mega deal that he agreed to, along the 2 option years that his party insisted on) and he put up a stink, eventually trying to talk himself out of the starting lineup.

It was clear he wanted out of Boston. But to think he wouldn't contribute? Where in his stats does it show he didn't contribute?


2008, his last for Boston, he had 100 ab's....in which he only hit .299, had 109 hits, 20 hr's, 68 rbi and scored 66 runs. Not bad for a guy with "questionable motivation".


I'm just stating a case for Manny being a good player. In reality, I'm not even a Manny fan ;) Never have been. But nobody can deny he's a great hitter. Maybe that's all he feels he needs to do. Like I said, nobody's perfect.

Mr.3000
01-30-2009, 03:12 PM
I meant to say 100 games (365 ab's).

eisenreich8
01-30-2009, 04:16 PM
I may have been guilty of running amok in this thread and deviating from the underlying topic, but I respectfully, and personally, don't agree that "between the chalk lines" is all there is to appreciate about the game and its players.

One could overlook the hero police officer who pins his badge on each day, and busts a lot of crime for his community, but off-duty, decides to snort oxycontin, shoplift and rob banks. I know one who did. All this erased any good he did in uniform to the observer.

As did my 7th and 8th grade award-winning science teacher, who 32 years later thought it was okay to sleep with his 16 year old students (female).

Or my parish priest, in the Boston area, who became a monsignor and was adored by all, until the skeletons came tumbling out of his confessional.

I am solidly in with and one of those humans who are imperfect and make mistakes. I am a very forgiving sort. But I get no pleasure out of an Albert Belle at-bat or a Carl Everett at-bat or a Roger Clemens Cy Young Season when I see the person in the polyester, who is a public figure and performer who does indeed owe something more to the fans. Not chipping in even a few hours for childrens' cancer research programs is indefensible and rotten. How can the way one swings a bat make it okay?

All that aside, Manny's reputation has apparently preceded him around both leagues, his bat is obviously not as much of a catalyst toward yet another mega contract, when he lacks so much else. I'll start my weekend by predicting that Boston will win the AL East by at least 3 games in '09.

Everyone enjoy your weekend. Go AZ!

matt
01-30-2009, 05:01 PM
This is a very interesting thread. Some say all that matters is what a player does on the field and others see Manny as the antichrist for his character and the way he layed down last year.

Manny was my favorite for years and clearly was a key to the 2 championships. He deserves credit. However, by letting down his teammates as his head swelled and by acting better than everyone else in the clubhouse, he DID affect the team on the field. These guys play 6 months ayear and live together as a unit. One guy can bring down a team, and Manny was voted off the island by veterans.

For me, I'd like to admire players that can both play and be decent people, and I don't think that is too much to ask. If Manny started hurting the team, then he had to go. Last I knew, this is a team sport and when I coach teams, that's what I try to teach kids.

Matt

suicide_squeeze
01-31-2009, 12:32 AM
Reason he's not signed:
He quit on his team. He faked an injury(sent to get an MRI on his sore knee, forgot which knee hurt, they took an MRI on both and both came up clean, traded days lasted and magically became healthy batting 400 in the NL)). As an owner/coach/or teammate, it would be very hard to put trust in him. Nobody wants to invest that much money in an employee and not know if he is going to do his job from day to day. Players are all for each other getting the biggest contracts that they can, but they will not tolerate a bad teammate. At the end, it was the Boston players as much as management that had enough of Manny

My point exactly, kellsox.

So you've ALL "had enough of Manny". Poor, silly Bostonites.

Thank you!!! We haven't in Los Angeles. In fact, we're all collectively holding our breath for the signing announcement....

And if you'd like, give us your mailing address. We'll send you an invitation to our parade coming up in early November......

It will be for winning the event you guys won't see again for ......oh......maybe..........86 years?

We're dubbing it "The curse of the Manbino". :eek:

suicide_squeeze
01-31-2009, 12:47 AM
[quote=godwulf;120845]Yeah, I know how that is...trying to get everything typed before your head explodes, huh? :D



Actually, not trying to get off track on the thread, but here's why I was in a hurry.

I have typed two LONG very heart felt threads here, and BOTH times I lost them, because when I went to "submit reply", the next screen that popped up was the "sign in" screen. I guess I took too long, and it automatically logged me out.

On the second thread I spilled my guts, I remembered the first because it was so painful to realize I had NO WAY of retrieving my typed post by hitting "back"....it was GONE!......So, I remembered to highlight the whole thing, then right-clicked on the highlighted thread to "copy" it in case it dumped me into the same "sign in" page while losing my post.....but I realized you can't highlight and copy while posting here(????????). WHY IS THAT Chris Cavalier????? Is there a reason that you guys have disabled that possibility? So, I lost that second thread too.

So.....Now, when I type a post that is getting lengthy, I try my best to hurry, because if I lose a THIRD post, I may just give up altogether!:mad:

Mr.3000
01-31-2009, 12:54 AM
Chances of Manny going to the Mets?

frikativ54
01-31-2009, 02:44 AM
My personal opinion is that I don't care what a player does or says off the field. The media is way too involved with athletes these days.

I wonder how many players we idolize from the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's beat their wives, cheated, were homosexual....and we never knew, therefore we didn't care.

I submit that some fans only care today because it is all over the media, 24/7.


I am a fan of the sport and a fan of the athlete...and what he does ON THE FIELD.

I want to see Manny hit the ball, drive in runs and hit HR's. I don't pay for my ticket to sit and wonder what charity he involves himself with or whether or not he's a faithful spouse.

Ballplayers are paid to play ball...not be perfect.

Players are people too. Yes they are often spoiled primadonnas but who are we to try and dictate how they live their lives off the field? Try telling your neighbor he has to go to church or that he must give to a charity. I'd wager that wouldn't fare to well for you.


And yes, Manny doesn't contribute much other than his bat. What about Bob Uecker. Did he contribute much more than catching? What about Edgar Martinez? He was all bat as well. Maybe Manny should be back in the AL and moved to DH.


I respect the uber straight and narrow players....but I don't begrudge the ones that aren't perfect.

Being homosexual counts in with beating your wife and cheating? :confused: While I care mostly about players' on-field actions, if the guy is a jerk, then I lose all respect for him. I've always liked Manny, but if that is true about not wanting to do charity work, then I'll think twice about rooting for him. How hard is it to write a check and show up for an event for kids with cancer? After the Astros were done, I would always switch over to the Dodgers to see Manny hit. But I'll never forget how he said he'd want to spend the rest of his career as a Dodger, and after the season, said he was really after the highest bidder. I'm quickly losing all respect for the guy. Character does count, and I'm saying this as someone who's an Astros fan - far removed from pro or anti BoSox bias.

chakes89
01-31-2009, 04:30 AM
I don't believe any of the crap out there coming from the Sox regarding Manny and his so called "bad behavior"

In my opinion, it just sounds like they are trying to say he is "damaged goods", for lack of a better term, so that none of their competition wants to sign him.


I don't know about most people but I care more about what players do "Inside the lines" then what they do "Outside the lines" in their private life

For example, Ty Cobb beat the hell out of an umpire after a game and was a known racist.

Yet he still got into the HOF because of what he did on the field.


I also don't care if Barry Bonds used steroids. Same with Palmeiro, Big Mac and Sosa. The players should be able to do what they want to their bodies. Yes, I know steroids are illegal but they shouldn't be, because when used properly they can be very beneficial for the human body in regards to injury recovery and overall wellness

skyking26
01-31-2009, 09:18 AM
Here we are 2 weeks before ST and big names are still on the sidelines. This is one of those strange years. No, not a collusion year, a year where it is unsure where the economy is headed and owners are not going to lay out big $$...except for NYY. They have not heard.

I see Manny with LAD, signing a deal for about a year. I see Adam Dunn with the Nationals for a year, far under what and he wanted and not where he wanted to be... It's just a statement of the times.

Mr.3000
01-31-2009, 09:50 AM
I don't believe any of the crap out there coming from the Sox regarding Manny and his so called "bad behavior"

In my opinion, it just sounds like they are trying to say he is "damaged goods", for lack of a better term, so that none of their competition wants to sign him.


I don't know about most people but I care more about what players do "Inside the lines" then what they do "Outside the lines" in their private life

For example, Ty Cobb beat the hell out of an umpire after a game and was a known racist.

Yet he still got into the HOF because of what he did on the field.


I also don't care if Barry Bonds used steroids. Same with Palmeiro, Big Mac and Sosa. The players should be able to do what they want to their bodies. Yes, I know steroids are illegal but they shouldn't be, because when used properly they can be very beneficial for the human body in regards to injury recovery and overall wellness

Thank you. Thought I was the only one these days that doesn't care what a player does with his personal life.

Mr.3000
01-31-2009, 09:55 AM
Being homosexual counts in with beating your wife and cheating? :confused: While I care mostly about players' on-field actions, if the guy is a jerk, then I lose all respect for him. I've always liked Manny, but if that is true about not wanting to do charity work, then I'll think twice about rooting for him. How hard is it to write a check and show up for an event for kids with cancer? After the Astros were done, I would always switch over to the Dodgers to see Manny hit. But I'll never forget how he said he'd want to spend the rest of his career as a Dodger, and after the season, said he was really after the highest bidder. I'm quickly losing all respect for the guy. Character does count, and I'm saying this as someone who's an Astros fan - far removed from pro or anti BoSox bias.


Read post #22

Thank you.

Tedw9
01-31-2009, 08:37 PM
I am a lifelong Sox fan and let me start by saying I do appreciate what Manny helped the team do. But to say that Boston management treated him wrong or that they are trying to say he is damaged goods? WHAT?? Did anybody follow what happened in Boston the past few years? He tried to fake an injury, he took WEEKS off each season when the team needed him most, he doesn't run out grounders or hits, he only plays hard in the outfield when he feels like it and while he was doing that he was being paid over 20 MILLION a year! Sure, he can hit the leather off a ball, but that is only HALF of his job. He was paid, very well, to be a left fielder. He was paid to play hard, every play, every at bat. He did that when he felt like it.

Do I appreciate the talent he has to hit, sure I do. You don't see talent like that but once in a lifetime. I appreciate what he did in Sox uniform, but I don't think that because he was a great hitter excused him from doing his job or quitting on his team. Are you there to play baseball or talk on the cell phone Manny?

It is obvious that the Dodgers fans on the board have not had their taste of Manny yet. You had him for what, a few months? Come talk to us Sox fans when your new hero decides to sit for a few weeks in the middle of a pennant race. Or when he decides that the millions he is making is not enough and starts the "woe is me" in the media. I'm curious to see how long the love fest will last.

eisenreich8
01-31-2009, 09:16 PM
And that, my friends, is the "rest of the story"..............

suicide_squeeze
01-31-2009, 10:09 PM
I am a lifelong Sox fan and let me start by saying I do appreciate what Manny helped the team do. But to say that Boston management treated him wrong or that they are trying to say he is damaged goods? WHAT?? Did anybody follow what happened in Boston the past few years? He tried to fake an injury, he took WEEKS off each season when the team needed him most, he doesn't run out grounders or hits, he only plays hard in the outfield when he feels like it and while he was doing that he was being paid over 20 MILLION a year! Sure, he can hit the leather off a ball, but that is only HALF of his job. He was paid, very well, to be a left fielder. He was paid to play hard, every play, every at bat. He did that when he felt like it.

Do I appreciate the talent he has to hit, sure I do. You don't see talent like that but once in a lifetime. I appreciate what he did in Sox uniform, but I don't think that because he was a great hitter excused him from doing his job or quitting on his team. Are you there to play baseball or talk on the cell phone Manny?

It is obvious that the Dodgers fans on the board have not had their taste of Manny yet. You had him for what, a few months? Come talk to us Sox fans when your new hero decides to sit for a few weeks in the middle of a pennant race. Or when he decides that the millions he is making is not enough and starts the "woe is me" in the media. I'm curious to see how long the love fest will last.

Tedw9,

I understand your anger, as I do all fans of a team who witnessed the dethroning of their teams superstar.......it's painful for all to see.

I also understand the predictions of Manny doing this, and Manny doing that, after he gets the bucks, to the next team hw plays on.

But IMHO you guys are way off base. Here's why....

You are referring to Manny quitting on his team, and all that stuff. Yes, he did. But he did it after he was shown the ultimate disrespect from the teams management and ownership. The Red Sox WAIVED HIM in 2003 in an attempt to get rid of him and that large contract. Manny could have copped a 'tude right then and there, but he kept his free-spirited happy personality, and WON YOU FANS A WORLD SERIES. So....where is the outrage from you fans over that???

I'll tell you where it is. It's misdirected into an explanation like Tedw9's here. You all jumped on the "Bash MANNY!" bandwagon, instead of backing him. So, he handled it the way he saw fit. I'm not condoning his behavior, but it got to the point where everyone in Boston was basically calling for a pulic linching of this guy.

So, since Manny could back it up.....he snubbed the team to get out. HOW can you blame him for doing that to a team whose players, and a city whose fans, has all turned against him?

Manny may be looking for big bucks, and that is his right in the system that is set up. That said, I believe WHEREVER he ends up signing (and I hope it is in Chavez Ravine) I believe he knows he's working for his legacy, and possibly one last additional contract if he plays well. So we shall see, but I say where ever he ends up, he plays like the superstar he is. The Boston situation was ugly, and it ended badly.......but the Red Sox organization crapped down the throat of their best player FIRST....not the other way around. You have to understand that fact before you go on your next "Manny Bashing" routine.

dodgerbats
01-31-2009, 10:32 PM
WOW suicide_squeeze!

Very accurate!

Not a Huge Manny fan by any means, but Boston did crap on him for sure! Boston has Great Fans, but many of their fans threw Manny under the bus! Manny obviously got his feelings hurt!

Mark

markize
01-31-2009, 10:58 PM
I could care less about Manny, the Red Sox, or the Dodgers, but I need to know.....it's not ok for the Sox to do what they can to pay him less, but it's ok for him to quit on his team? Plus there is the integrity issue-faking injuries. Ok, so you were disrespected, but play hard, make the management look bad, and then go get your cash.

Mark

Mr.3000
01-31-2009, 11:18 PM
I could care less about Manny, the Red Sox, or the Dodgers, but I need to know.....it's not ok for the Sox to do what they can to pay him less, but it's ok for him to quit on his team? Plus there is the integrity issue-faking injuries. Ok, so you were disrespected, but play hard, make the management look bad, and then go get your cash.

Mark

Outside of the media and the tabloids, I don't see any of his stats indicating that he ever didn't play hard or that he quit on his team. His last 100 games for Boston, 109 hits, 20 HR, 68 RBI, .299 BA.....damn good for a "quitter".

Again, I am not a Manny fan but I hate to see someone unjustly trashed. It's quite pathetic....especially when it's obvious someone is buying into the media garbage and not the actual stats or facts.

Show me one stat that proves he didn't give his all. And I said STAT.....not rumor, not article and not media gossip.

markize
02-01-2009, 09:11 AM
Outside of the media and the tabloids, I don't see any of his stats indicating that he ever didn't play hard or that he quit on his team. His last 100 games for Boston, 109 hits, 20 HR, 68 RBI, .299 BA.....damn good for a "quitter".

Again, I am not a Manny fan but I hate to see someone unjustly trashed. It's quite pathetic....especially when it's obvious someone is buying into the media garbage and not the actual stats or facts.

Show me one stat that proves he didn't give his all. And I said STAT.....not rumor, not article and not media gossip.

Is there a stat for lack of integrity? One that shows when a player LIES about an injury? Is there a stat that shows when a player doesn't run out a batted ball? Is there a stat that shows a player dog it in the outfield? I don't care about the stats you regurgitated. Yes, they are GREAT! How much better could they have been if he didnt sit out, or didn't take time off for that painful knee "injury"? These things aren't media rumor or gossip. If you watched a game, you would see it. I watched a few, and it is obvious. The guy husteled when he wanted to, and played hard when he wanted to. I'm sorry there aren't stats kept for hustle, effort, and INTEGRITY.

Mark

n

Tedw9
02-01-2009, 09:17 AM
Tedw9,
You are referring to Manny quitting on his team, and all that stuff. Yes, he did. But he did it after he was shown the ultimate disrespect from the teams management and ownership. The Red Sox WAIVED HIM in 2003 in an attempt to get rid of him and that large contract.

First, let me quote an article I found online that deals with that season. These are things that Manny did BEFORE he was waived.


"Flash back to August. Martinez spent some time on the shelf due to a disease called pharyngitis. At the time, it perhaps sounded like a first cousin to pneumonia or something. The problem is that pharyngitis is, in layman's terms, a sore throat. To clarify this further, acute nasopharyngitis, according to the Guinness Book Of World Records, is listed as the world's most common disease: the common cold. A sore throat is what caused Martinez to miss a few turns in the rotation.

Ramirez, who must have some Jim Palmer in him, observed Pedro, then miraculously came down with the same symptoms in late August. He was deemed unfit to play the August 29-31 weekend series against the Yankees at Fenway Park. Without him, the Sox won the opener, 10-5, then dropped the next two, 10-7 and 8-4. Things would have been okay, if only he hadn't been spotted having dinner/drinks at a restaurant at the Ritz Carlton with Yankee infielder (and Pedro killer) Enrique Wilson, his former Cleveland teammate.

All sorts of alibis and qualifiers came out almost instantly. Why was Ramirez at the Ritz? Because he lives there. He was not drinking, he doesn't drink. He was only there for a short time. It still left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but then came the next week and things got worse.

Ramirez blew off a team-mandated medical checkup early the next week. Then, out in Philadelphia, he refused to pinch hit in a game because he said he wasn't up to it. The team moved on to Chicago, and Ramirez declared himself fit to play. But Grady Little, in what had to go down as his high water mark as Red Sox manager, benched him for the opener, a game won by the Red Sox, 2-1. The players were with Little all the way, and the move won the manager a ton of respect.

Combine these shenanigans with base running gaffes, forgetting how many outs there are out in the field, and up until the postseason, a perceived indifference to the importance of baseball to the New England region, and you have an overpaid superstar who is more valuable to the team by subtracting his huge salary rather than keeping him for his massive offensive potential."

As I said, this all happened BEFORE he was waived.

And as for those who want the stats to show he quit on his team, there is more to this than just stats. Not running out grounders, standing at the plate watching long fly balls thinking every one is a home run, becoming injuried each season around the same time, all those things are not giving your all for the team. There is more than stats involved, there is heart. But, for those who ask, here are some stats for you.

In 2006 he played in 130 games and in 2007 he played in 133 games. In previous two seasons he missed an average of 10 games. Low end that is about an average of missing 2 games a month in 04 and 05 and an average of 6 games a month in 06 and 07 using an April through September schedule. Now I can see an occasional day off for rest, but most of those were because he was "hurt". Yes, when he played he had great stats, but stats do not show heart or hustle. These are things stats do not show, but you have to see. And watching the Sox as much as I do, I saw with my own eyes.

Now don't get me wrong, I respect what he can do at the plate. I've never seen a hitter like him, he is incredible. I guess I am just more of a fan of a player who gives 100% all the time. Call me old fashioned. :D

Mr.3000
02-01-2009, 10:10 AM
First, let me quote an article I found online that deals with that season. These are things that Manny did BEFORE he was waived.


"Flash back to August. Martinez spent some time on the shelf due to a disease called pharyngitis. At the time, it perhaps sounded like a first cousin to pneumonia or something. The problem is that pharyngitis is, in layman's terms, a sore throat. To clarify this further, acute nasopharyngitis, according to the Guinness Book Of World Records, is listed as the world's most common disease: the common cold. A sore throat is what caused Martinez to miss a few turns in the rotation.

Ramirez, who must have some Jim Palmer in him, observed Pedro, then miraculously came down with the same symptoms in late August. He was deemed unfit to play the August 29-31 weekend series against the Yankees at Fenway Park. Without him, the Sox won the opener, 10-5, then dropped the next two, 10-7 and 8-4. Things would have been okay, if only he hadn't been spotted having dinner/drinks at a restaurant at the Ritz Carlton with Yankee infielder (and Pedro killer) Enrique Wilson, his former Cleveland teammate.

All sorts of alibis and qualifiers came out almost instantly. Why was Ramirez at the Ritz? Because he lives there. He was not drinking, he doesn't drink. He was only there for a short time. It still left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but then came the next week and things got worse.

Ramirez blew off a team-mandated medical checkup early the next week. Then, out in Philadelphia, he refused to pinch hit in a game because he said he wasn't up to it. The team moved on to Chicago, and Ramirez declared himself fit to play. But Grady Little, in what had to go down as his high water mark as Red Sox manager, benched him for the opener, a game won by the Red Sox, 2-1. The players were with Little all the way, and the move won the manager a ton of respect.

Combine these shenanigans with base running gaffes, forgetting how many outs there are out in the field, and up until the postseason, a perceived indifference to the importance of baseball to the New England region, and you have an overpaid superstar who is more valuable to the team by subtracting his huge salary rather than keeping him for his massive offensive potential."

As I said, this all happened BEFORE he was waived.

And as for those who want the stats to show he quit on his team, there is more to this than just stats. Not running out grounders, standing at the plate watching long fly balls thinking every one is a home run, becoming injuried each season around the same time, all those things are not giving your all for the team. There is more than stats involved, there is heart. But, for those who ask, here are some stats for you.

In 2006 he played in 130 games and in 2007 he played in 133 games. In previous two seasons he missed an average of 10 games. Low end that is about an average of missing 2 games a month in 04 and 05 and an average of 6 games a month in 06 and 07 using an April through September schedule. Now I can see an occasional day off for rest, but most of those were because he was "hurt". Yes, when he played he had great stats, but stats do not show heart or hustle. These are things stats do not show, but you have to see. And watching the Sox as much as I do, I saw with my own eyes.

Now don't get me wrong, I respect what he can do at the plate. I've never seen a hitter like him, he is incredible. I guess I am just more of a fan of a player who gives 100% all the time. Call me old fashioned. :D

I agree with you on this. If my entire posts were read everyone would see that I've already said I am not a fan of Manny, nor have I ever been. I actually put Manny in the list of players I don't like. That said, he will go down as one of the greatest hitters of the game. Do I wish he played harder? Certainly. He'd then be easier to like. My position in this thread is mainly this - we, as fans and collectors are far too involved in players day to day lives and what they do off the field. Maybe ignorance is bliss. Sometime I wish I didn't know or didn't hear all of the garbage the media spews out about players and how everything a player does is viewed negatively. I say, to each their own. Not ever player is or can be a perfect role model and I don't expect them to be.

Manny may be a clown, but he puts up numbers. Good enough for me. Cal played the game the right way. Great for him. Jeter plays hard. Love watching him play. My all time favorite player, Pete Rose, knew how to play the game. Not many players today do. Eckstein plays hard. Then you have the flip side to those good players. You have Manny not hustling and not wanting to play in Boston anymore. You have pedro shutting himself down midway through a season.

Maybe I just except the good with the bad. Same with baseball as in life. I don't overly upset by an athlete who doesn't affect my daily life.

Just my .02


Note - It's difficult at time to read someones tone when reading written word. Nothing I say is meant to be argumentative. I am merely having a lighthearted discussion with everyone here. :)

Tedw9
02-01-2009, 10:30 AM
Note - It's difficult at time to read someones tone when reading written word. Nothing I say is meant to be argumentative. I am merely having a lighthearted discussion with everyone here. :)

I am with you 100%. I think this is a fun debate, I respect EVERYONES opinion as long as it agrees with mine! Just kidding. :) I do respect everyones opinion on this topic and every other topic they post about. I love this board and respect all those who post here. So I hope that anyone who I quote or respond to does not take it wrong, to me this is just a fun discussion. You all are good peeps. :D

And I agree with you about the personal side of players, it has nothing to do with them on the field. But I must admit I do hearing about the good things they do off the field. We have enough bad heaped upon us each night on the news, the good stories help balance it out if that makes sense.

This has been a fun thread, thank you all for the intelligent and respectful responses. There are some very smart and passionate fans on here.

Tedw9
02-01-2009, 10:32 AM
I meant to say in my response "But I must admit I do LIKE hearing..."

I must proof read better. :)

Mr.3000
02-01-2009, 10:33 AM
I am with you 100%. I think this is a fun debate, I respect EVERYONES opinion as long as it agrees with mine! Just kidding. :) I do respect everyones opinion on this topic and every other topic they post about. I love this board and respect all those who post here. So I hope that anyone who I quote or respond to does not take it wrong, to me this is just a fun discussion. You all are good peeps. :D

And I agree with you about the personal side of players, it has nothing to do with them on the field. But I must admit I do hearing about the good things they do off the field. We have enough bad heaped upon us each night on the news, the good stories help balance it out if that makes sense.

This has been a fun thread, thank you all for the intelligent and respectful responses. There are some very smart and passionate fans on here.

Thank you as well Tedw9! :D

markize
02-01-2009, 10:59 AM
I agree with you on this. If my entire posts were read everyone would see that I've already said I am not a fan of Manny, nor have I ever been. I actually put Manny in the list of players I don't like. That said, he will go down as one of the greatest hitters of the game. Do I wish he played harder? Certainly. He'd then be easier to like. My position in this thread is mainly this - we, as fans and collectors are far too involved in players day to day lives and what they do off the field. Maybe ignorance is bliss. Sometime I wish I didn't know or didn't hear all of the garbage the media spews out about players and how everything a player does is viewed negatively. I say, to each their own. Not ever player is or can be a perfect role model and I don't expect them to be.

Manny may be a clown, but he puts up numbers. Good enough for me. Cal played the game the right way. Great for him. Jeter plays hard. Love watching him play. My all time favorite player, Pete Rose, knew how to play the game. Not many players today do. Eckstein plays hard. Then you have the flip side to those good players. You have Manny not hustling and not wanting to play in Boston anymore. You have pedro shutting himself down midway through a season.

Maybe I just except the good with the bad. Same with baseball as in life. I don't overly upset by an athlete who doesn't affect my daily life.

Just my .02


Note - It's difficult at time to read someones tone when reading written word. Nothing I say is meant to be argumentative. I am merely having a lighthearted discussion with everyone here. :)

I will assume this post is a follow up to mine. If you are upset with the way I came off, I'm sorry as I wasn't trying to be an a-hole. I never made a single reference to his personal life. I don't care if he clubs baby seals in the off season. I'm just saying there no stats for hustle, and integrity. I really don't feel I was assulting his character by stating the obvious about his work ethic on the field. I never take offense to what people say on the forum. Everyone has a personal opinion, and are entitled to share. I just said I don't care about the facts you regurgitated because I read them earlier in this thread. I also read you don't like manny. I was just asking you to put the stats aside for a second and see that there is more to a ballplayer than numbers-and I'm only talking on the field, like hustle and effort. I'm not trying to defend or assult Manny, just throwing out my opinion. I like to see a player hustle all the time. It's what they get paid to do.

So don't take what I typed the wrong way. I agree with you, it's tough to assume intent when your reading text. I'm just trying to discuss baseball, peacfully! No harm, no foul?

Mark

skyking26
02-03-2009, 08:11 AM
It's reported that Manny turned down Dodgers latest 1 year offer of $25 mil. Might be a good time for the Dodgers to sign Adam Dunn to a 1 year deal at a bargain price (which I think he'd do) and be dunn with it.

They'd have a 40 HR, 100 RBI guy at a fraction and stop with the theatrics already. What does everybody think?:eek:

allstarsplus
02-03-2009, 08:30 AM
It's reported that Manny turned down Dodgers latest 1 year offer of $25 mil. Might be a good time for the Dodgers to sign Adam Dunn to a 1 year deal at a bargain price (which I think he'd do) and be dunn with it.

They'd have a 40 HR, 100 RBI guy at a fraction and stop with the theatrics already. What does everybody think?:eek:

The Red Sox won't take Manny back so unless the Angels or Yankees jump in then Manny better take that deal and run with it.

Also I am still personally hoping Adam Dunn comes to Washington!!!! ;)

skyking26
02-03-2009, 10:07 AM
The Red Sox won't take Manny back so unless the Angels or Yankees jump in then Manny better take that deal and run with it.

Also I am still personally hoping Adam Dunn comes to Washington!!!! ;)
I think Dunn should wake up and smell the coffee this year as well. Unless you are signing with the Yankees, longtime deals are not happening. I believe Dunn is waiting for Manny to go somewhere and that will dictate his direction....... If Manny signs in LA, look for Dunn in WA as nobody else has shown the clear interest that WA has shown him all along. I doubt he'd sign there beyond a year...

suicide_squeeze
02-03-2009, 11:28 AM
News out.......Manny just turned down a one year-$25 Million offer from the Dodgers.

Hopefully, that's a negotiation "starting point" and a way for the Dodgers to stick it back in the "craw" of Boras.

But I really hope the children put it all aside now, and get down to the business of getting the deal done.

The Dodgers need Manny's bat, or they're just another one-and-done if they make the play-offs. Manny earned what he's looking for. Give him three years in the neighborhood of $24 mil, and LET'S ROCK.

suicide_squeeze
02-03-2009, 11:53 AM
I too really appreciate the lively posters here. What a fun place to "air it out".

One thing I am picking up by all the comments seems to be a common feeling (correct me if I'm wrong) that if Manny, when happy, is one of the greatest right hand power hitters of all time.

If that is true, and I believe it is, and in light of some of the most rediculous salaries paid in MLB history (Jason Schmidt of the Dodgers and Barry Zito of the Giants jump out at me)......doesn't Manny DESERVE something close to what he is looking for? I mean, if the Dodgers can just get the concept in their heads that this guy can produce runs like NO OTHER IN THE GAME, why not make him happy? It's not a big risk!

On the other hand, try to low-ball him after what he did for the franchise last year (for FREE.....Boston paid his tab while Manny blew the doors off in Los Angeles)......and end up with a Manny who feels he has been disrespected again? I mean.......wake UP Dodgers, that is something that would be no one's fault but your own if that scenario comes to fruition.

Pay him.....give him a 3-year deal. Sign him, and look forward to some great times in Dodgers history again. I don't CARE about what Manny did while in Boston. You fans out there got two World Championships out of him. He wasn't happy there. Let it GO already. Let's all move on. If it was the other way around, I know I would be wishing Manny well wherever he was if he had brought two World Championships to L.A.

This guy is a legend.....even if he isn't the perfect role model to all of you off the field. But he doesn't smoke, he doesn't drink, he isn't a wife beater, he doesn't do drugs, he works HARD to keep himself in top shape....I mean, geez.....I understand why he feels bad that he isn't getting more interest. I think he needs to understand it's the economy, too, and not a reflection ENTIRELY on him.

xpress34
02-03-2009, 11:59 AM
http://www.comcast.net/sports/russakoffrules/22982/mannyspitsondodgers25m/

That's all I have to say about Cry Baby ManRam and his 'nobody wants me' little tirade...

LOOK at the rest of the country and how many people are losing their jobs DAILY you arrogant idiot...

Just my .02 and I'm entitled to it.

skyking26
02-03-2009, 12:03 PM
I too really appreciate the lively posters here. What a fun place to "air it out".

One thing I am picking up by all the comments seems to be a common feeling (correct me if I'm wrong) that if Manny, when happy, is one of the greatest right hand power hitters of all time.

If that is true, and I believe it is, and in light of some of the most rediculous salaries paid in MLB history (Jason Schmidt of the Dodgers and Barry Zito of the Giants jump out at me)......doesn't Manny DESERVE something close to what he is looking for? I mean, if the Dodgers can just get the concept in their heads that this guy can produce runs like NO OTHER IN THE GAME, why not make him happy? It's not a big risk!

On the other hand, try to low-ball him after what he did for the franchise last year (for FREE.....Boston paid his tab while Manny blew the doors off in Los Angeles)......and end up with a Manny who feels he has been disrespected again? I mean.......wake UP Dodgers, that is something that would be no one's fault but your own if that scenario comes to fruition.

Pay him.....give him a 3-year deal. Sign him, and look forward to some great times in Dodgers history again. I don't CARE about what Manny did while in Boston. You fans out there got two World Championships out of him. He wasn't happy there. Let it GO already. Let's all move on. If it was the other way around, I know I would be wishing Manny well wherever he was if he had brought two World Championships to L.A.

This guy is a legend.....even if he isn't the perfect role model to all of you off the field. But he doesn't smoke, he doesn't drink, he isn't a wife beater, he doesn't do drugs, he works HARD to keep himself in top shape....I mean, geez.....I understand why he feels bad that he isn't getting more interest. I think he needs to understand it's the economy, too, and not a reflection ENTIRELY on him.
He's a legend all right. The larger the legend in his mind the harder it will all be on him. No question, he's one of the best RH hitters of our time...That said, his attitude and all that has been written regarding his "one-ness," I think this last move, if I were the Dodgers I'd forget him entirely and sign Dunn. Leave manny out there. I'd be done with his attitude and the cancer he brings with him. Precious few will pay what he wants.

camarokids
02-03-2009, 12:46 PM
Suicide, yes you are wrong. Manny may be a good hitter. But who cares???

He refuses 25m to play a freaking game for one season. What an ass!

I hope no ones signs the clown. He is only one player. Signing him does guarantee a World Championship.

One question for you. How many clutch hits from David Ortiz (and others players on the team besides Manny) won key games for the Red Sox that helped the Sox win the WS in 2004 and 2007?

Contrary to what you are saying it was not even close to being all Manny.

Baseball is a team sport!

suicide_squeeze
02-03-2009, 01:06 PM
He's a legend all right. The larger the legend in his mind the harder it will all be on him. No question, he's one of the best RH hitters of our time...That said, his attitude and all that has been written regarding his "one-ness," I think this last move, if I were the Dodgers I'd forget him entirely and sign Dunn. Leave manny out there. I'd be done with his attitude and the cancer he brings with him. Precious few will pay what he wants.

I'm sorry, I just don't get it?

skyking26, I absolutely love and respect your posts, but I just don't understand all the Manny hatred.

"I'd be done with his attitude and the cancer he brings with him."

Let me tell you, what I saw first hand for three months last year was an attitude of "WIN" that electrified the Dodgers SO MUCH SO, it darn near carried them straight to the World Series. For Christ sake, they LOST to the eventual World Series winners? Where does that leave them?? To lose Manny at this point, they just wouldn't recover.

Signing Dunn to replace Manny is laughable. The guy strikes out 200+ times a season.......Hell, we just got rid of a player like that, and Andruw Jones to the best of my knowledge isn't having anybody knock on his door.....

And now, with a little play-off experience under their belts, Loney, Russell, Ethier, DeWitt.....these youngsters NEED an elite veteran like Manny to pick them up when they falter. The "cancer" Manny brought was the "GOLDEN ELIXER" that lifted this team. You cannot consider the "mess" that happened in Boston, that's a whole other chapter, and it's OVER.

Listen, I understand the hatred and anger about Manny and his "money wants".....but I stand by my belief.....compared to other contracts, and based on past performance, the dude DESERVES what he is looking for.... HE CAN BACK IT UP......AND HAS BACKED IT UP, consistently.

If the Dodgers don't sign him, they will be the losers.....the money will flow in, Los Angeles Dodger management......just take care of it from your end and SIGN HIM....or your fan base will dissolve faster than two Alka-Seltzer's dropped in a glass of boiling water........

I'll leave it at this.......

In late September, in a game against FIRST PLACE Arizona, with their ACE Brandon Webb on the mound......in a ZERO-ZERO game......and the game that would give sole posession of FIRST PLACE to the DODGERS if they won.....Manny stepped up to the plate with runners on first and second. I was there.....the crowd was screaming "MANNY.....MANNY....MANNY"

He had struck out with bases loaded in the third. This time......CRACK!!!

He hit a three run homer to right.....He then got up in the 6th and knocked in two more.

The Arizona Diamonds never recovered....and the Dodgers never relinguished first place for the rest of the season.

You want to let this guy get away, Los Angeles???

Rob L
02-03-2009, 01:09 PM
You want to let this guy get away, Los Angeles???

No, just send him 30 miles down the Freeway :D

FastLane80
02-03-2009, 01:57 PM
I think Manny will do well for a year and MAYBE two. What happened in LA this past year was awesome but I don't think lightning will strike twice. It seemed like he was auditioning for a 2009 contract and what a performance it was. In any other economy, he'd get what he's asking for but in this new day and age of 1 year deals, this may have been his last chance wirth the Dodgers. I'm sorry but I think I'd rather have Dunn and Hudson and maybe dangle DeWitt as trade bait for Peavy...I know it's a long shot but it's along the line of what the Padres were asking for. Pierre is also looking to get traded if he's on the bench so that may also be another pitcher or 2. The rest of the west has stepped up with their rotations and the Dodgers need to look at doing the same by letting Manny go to the unemployment line.

camarokids
02-03-2009, 03:10 PM
Just to compare some stats from the 2004 Post Season....

David Ortiz

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO HBP IBB SH SF DP AVG OBP SLG OPS


BOS (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playoffs/2004/5.shtml)AL (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/leagues/2004/MLB-AL.shtml)Div 3 11 4 6 2 0 1 4 0 0 5 2 0 3 0 0 0 .545 .688 1.000 1688

BOS (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playoffs/2004/5.shtml)AL (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/leagues/2004/MLB-AL.shtml)Ch 7 31 6 12 0 1 3 11 0 1 4 7 0 0 0 0 0 .387 .457 .742 1199

BOS (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playoffs/2004/5.shtml)AL (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/leagues/2004/MLB-AL.shtml)Ws 4 13 3 4 1 0 1 4 0 0 4 1 0 0 0 0 0 .308 .471 .615 1086

22 hits and 19 total RBI's for the post season

Manny Ramirez

BOS (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playoffs/2004/5.shtml)AL (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/leagues/2004/MLB-AL.shtml)Div 3 13 3 5 2 0 1 7 0 0 1 4 0 0 0 2 0 .385 .375 .769 1144

BOS (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playoffs/2004/5.shtml)AL (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/leagues/2004/MLB-AL.shtml)Ch 7 30 3 9 1 0 0 0 0 0 5 4 1 0 0 0 3 .300 .417 .333 750

BOS (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playoffs/2004/5.shtml)AL (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/leagues/2004/MLB-AL.shtml)Ws 4 17 2 7 0 0 1 4 0 0 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 .412 .500 .588 1088

21 hits 11 total RBI's for the post season , No RBI's in the ALCS


My point is, it is not all about Manny! Without Big Papi , do the Red Sox win the 2004 World Series? Do the Sox even make it to the WS? It is a team sport......

In the 2007 WS Ortiz batted 5/15 with 4 rbi's , Manny 4/16 with 2 rbi's.
Each had two walks....

Varitek was 5/15 w/ 5 rbi's

So who won the 2007 WS for the SOX? Pitching ??? I think it was a collective team effort...

Not sure how one can say Manny brought two World Series Championships to the Red Sox? Sure he was part of it. But it is a team sport.

Have you looked up Manny salaries?

It's nothing to sneeze at ! Dis-respected :confused::rolleyes: .....

Since 2001 ......

137 MILLION !!

suicide_squeeze
02-03-2009, 06:30 PM
I think Manny will do well for a year and MAYBE two. What happened in LA this past year was awesome but I don't think lightning will strike twice. It seemed like he was auditioning for a 2009 contract and what a performance it was. In any other economy, he'd get what he's asking for but in this new day and age of 1 year deals, this may have been his last chance wirth the Dodgers. I'm sorry but I think I'd rather have Dunn and Hudson and maybe dangle DeWitt as trade bait for Peavy...I know it's a long shot but it's along the line of what the Padres were asking for. Pierre is also looking to get traded if he's on the bench so that may also be another pitcher or 2. The rest of the west has stepped up with their rotations and the Dodgers need to look at doing the same by letting Manny go to the unemployment line.

I couldn't disagree more.....but you are certainly entitled to your say.

The biggest missing ingredient in the Dodger line up.......is Manny.

I can't say the Dodgers would SUCK without him, because they have a SOLID core group of young players that should only get better.

And after you STOP all this back and forth nonsense and GET him signed, THEN you can go after your much-needed pitching......You'll also know what funds you have available to get it!!

But without the threat of Manny in their line-up, Loney, Ethier, Martin, DeWitt, they just will NOT see the strikes like they WILL if Manny is batting third. He makes everyone on the TEAM better by his presence.

I mean......I can't believe I'm sitting here standing up for this guy?

He's got the third most hits in MAJOR LEAGUE POST SEASON HISTORY??

He's got the 2nd most RBI in MAJOR LEAGUE POST SEASON HISTORY??

He's #1...#1... in HOME RUNS in MAJOR LEAGUE POST SEASON HISTORY??

His career batting average is .313??

He's hit 527 home runs......and COUNTING!!!!

He will end up in the top 10 of EVERY OFFENSIVE CATEGORY there is in MLB history by the time he's done (with maybe the exception of batting average).....

WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION???

This guy has a STICK.......and he can DO DAMAGE to ANYONE WITH IT BETTER THAN ALMOST ANY RIGHT HANDER THE GAME HAS EVER SEEN!!?

If the Dodgers don't get off their duffs and SIGN this guy.....if they F&%K UP and let him get snagged by a desperate last minute offer from say a loser organization like the METS or GIANTS.......then you can kiss it ALL goodbye McCourts. Your season will be a tragedy....attendance dismal.

Manny will NOT TURN against the team that SIGN'S HIM.....HE IS NOW PLAYING FOR HIS LEGACY......not another CONTRACT.

Common sense people.......c'mon! THINK about it. Is Manny, upon obtaining his last multi-year big $$$ contract going to ROLL OVER and play dead? Is THAT the message he wants to send to the BBWAA who will be voting on his Enshrinement into the Hall of FAME in just a few short years after he hangs em up?

I think not. I think Manny has more self respect than that.

And I KNOW Manny has higher inspirations than that.

He just wants his due. He KNOWS he'll end up as one of the greatest to ever play this fabulous game. And in the free markets we have set up, no MATTER what the economy is in the short term......he's earned it. HE CAN BACK IT UP. He can make a franchise RICH beyond their wildest dreams.

Manny.......and "choke".......JUST DON'T EXIST in the same world.

Can you say that about .........A-Rod?

PAY HIM the number already established, and give him three years DODGERS......or I swear to GOD you will have something QUITE A BIT WORSE on your hands than a "curse" from a Babe, or a goat.....or anything like that.

You'll have an empty stadium watching the hapless powerless Dodgers without their superstar inspirational leader. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.

skyking26
02-03-2009, 06:31 PM
I'm sorry, I just don't get it?

skyking26, I absolutely love and respect your posts, but I just don't understand all the Manny hatred.

"I'd be done with his attitude and the cancer he brings with him."

Let me tell you, what I saw first hand for three months last year was an attitude of "WIN" that electrified the Dodgers SO MUCH SO, it darn near carried them straight to the World Series. For Christ sake, they LOST to the eventual World Series winners? Where does that leave them?? To lose Manny at this point, they just wouldn't recover.

Signing Dunn to replace Manny is laughable. The guy strikes out 200+ times a season.......Hell, we just got rid of a player like that, and Andruw Jones to the best of my knowledge isn't having anybody knock on his door.....

And now, with a little play-off experience under their belts, Loney, Russell, Ethier, DeWitt.....these youngsters NEED an elite veteran like Manny to pick them up when they falter. The "cancer" Manny brought was the "GOLDEN ELIXER" that lifted this team. You cannot consider the "mess" that happened in Boston, that's a whole other chapter, and it's OVER.

Listen, I understand the hatred and anger about Manny and his "money wants".....but I stand by my belief.....compared to other contracts, and based on past performance, the dude DESERVES what he is looking for.... HE CAN BACK IT UP......AND HAS BACKED IT UP, consistently.

If the Dodgers don't sign him, they will be the losers.....the money will flow in, Los Angeles Dodger management......just take care of it from your end and SIGN HIM....or your fan base will dissolve faster than two Alka-Seltzer's dropped in a glass of boiling water........

I'll leave it at this.......

In late September, in a game against FIRST PLACE Arizona, with their ACE Brandon Webb on the mound......in a ZERO-ZERO game......and the game that would give sole posession of FIRST PLACE to the DODGERS if they won.....Manny stepped up to the plate with runners on first and second. I was there.....the crowd was screaming "MANNY.....MANNY....MANNY"

He had struck out with bases loaded in the third. This time......CRACK!!!

He hit a three run homer to right.....He then got up in the 6th and knocked in two more.

The Arizona Diamonds never recovered....and the Dodgers never relinguished first place for the rest of the season.

You want to let this guy get away, Los Angeles???
It's been written here many times. Written about how bad Manny wanted out of Boston, said he was hurt, and then when he got the trade he wanted he was revived with LA and auditioning for what he thought was the payday of his life. I'm on board with that. We all know you are not...and you know what - it's a free country. I like your devotion to your guy, I just do not agree with it, and that is ok.

I'll stand by what Ken Rosenthal said today, you could sign Dunn, Wolf, and Hudson for less money. I know I'd do it. Like he said, LA backs out and that leaves SF the only club that would likely pay this guy anything.

I hope it goes that way!

suicide_squeeze
02-03-2009, 06:33 PM
No, just send him 30 miles down the Freeway :D

God, that would just make me sick.......Vlady and Manny???

That's the closest thing to Ruth and Gehrig I can think of......

suicide_squeeze
02-03-2009, 06:43 PM
CAMAROKIDS......

You made the argument, so here's the other side of it.....

LOOK at David Ortiz's numbers AFTER MANNY LEFT.

They were so dismal, he almost lost his starting place on the team.

The hitters around Manny were BETTER when he was there because the pitchers pitch AROUND Manny. Someone has to get strikes? You can't pitch around the WHOLE team? Pick your poison......who do you pitch to?

The opposing teams chose to pitch around Manny.....and he still lit then up. The batters before and after him were the recipient of better pitches because Manny is such a wicked hitter.

That is EXACTLY what happened when he went to the Dodgers.....he elevated the WHOLE team, and the batters right before him, and right after him, had a SERIOUS jump in their averages. Don't believe me? Just go look at Jeff Kent's and Andre Ethier's numbers pre-Manny, and after Manny arrived. It was SPOOKY what happened.

We need to keep the house HAUNTED in L.A. SIGN HIM COLLETTI !!!!!!!

Vintagedeputy
02-03-2009, 07:23 PM
MLB network just reported that Ramirez turned down a one year, 25 Million offer from the Dodgers.......

Screw you Manny...

camarokids
02-03-2009, 07:40 PM
Suicide,

You do have a point about Manny being pitched around.

The Sox came pretty close to making to the WS in 2008 with out him.

My point I am trying to make is MR is only one player. Him signing with the Dodgers or anyone else does NOT guarantee a World Series Championship.

I still I don't think MR is worth 25 Million for a season, or anyone else!

But that is another thread.....

Peace!

allstarsplus
02-03-2009, 08:10 PM
MLB network just reported that Ramirez turned down a one year, 25 Million offer from the Dodgers.......

Screw you Manny...That seems to me to be a very fair offer. I don't get Manny. Manny being Manny?

Vintagedeputy
02-03-2009, 08:20 PM
That seems to me to be a very fair offer. I don't get Manny. Manny being Manny?

Manny being stupid

kellsox
02-03-2009, 08:26 PM
A big part of Ortiz' #s slipping was that he played hurt for a good portion of last year(wrist).
Manny begged Boston to waive 2 20 million dollar team options and that was part of the agreement when he went to the Dodgers. Those were also options that he and his agent insisted on when he signed his original deal with the Sox.
Him being offered only 1 year at 25 million speaks volumes as to what some teams think of his antics on his way out of Boston, his agent misreading the market for him(thought he could get a multiyear deal for 100 mil)and the economy dropping.
If I remember correctly, at the start of free agency the Dodgers offered him a 2 year deal for 45 mil- I wonder why it's now down to a 1 year offer???

metsbats
02-03-2009, 08:47 PM
Manny being stupid


Yes.

Manny being greedy too.

Hey Manny how many folks in California unemployed would love to earn even 1% of what the Dodgers just offered you!

frikativ54
02-03-2009, 08:58 PM
Yes.

Manny being greedy too.

Hey Manny how many folks in California unemployed would love to earn even 1% of what the Dodgers just offered you!

Well, be fair, Manny wants long-term security. How many of you would take a one year deal, when there is potential to have several years worth of job security? And this is Manny's opportunity, because of his god-like performance with the Dodgers last year. So - I think it's only fair for him to get a multi-year deal.

-Frik

allstarsplus
02-03-2009, 09:05 PM
Yes.

Manny being greedy too.

Hey Manny how many folks in California unemployed would love to earn even 1% of what the Dodgers just offered you!

Add to that any money he receives from endorsements, memorabilia deals, Player's Union profit sharing, Meet & Greets, Post-Season pay, All Star money, travel stipends, interest on his earnings, freebies, and on and on.

Manny is a star, but I have no respect for him as a person and I can speak from experience with the way he treated me once upon a time so I am not surprised by him turning this deal down.

So I agree with the Deputy, SCREW YOU MANNY!

allstarsplus
02-03-2009, 09:11 PM
Well, be fair, Manny wants long-term security. How many of you would take a one year deal, when there is potential to have several years worth of job security? And this is Manny's opportunity, because of his god-like performance with the Dodgers last year. So - I think it's only fair for him to get a multi-year deal.

-Frik

Frik - This market and economy has turned much worse. He got a 2 year offer early on in the process and turned that down. At the "per year" deal he is looking for, he won't get more than 2 years, but hey, that is my opinion.

Unless the Yankees come calling, Manny should jump at the 1 year deal or negotiate in a 2nd year option.

Otherwise, maybe he will sit out 2009!!!!!

frikativ54
02-03-2009, 09:18 PM
Manny is a star, but I have no respect for him as a person and I can speak from experience with the way he treated me once upon a time so I am not surprised by him turning this deal down.

So I agree with the Deputy, SCREW YOU MANNY!

Care to provide details? As with the Dykstra story last night, my opinions of a guy can be greatly shaped by what you guys have experienced with a player.

-Frik

allstarsplus
02-03-2009, 09:38 PM
Care to provide details? As with the Dykstra story last night, my opinions of a guy can be greatly shaped by what you guys have experienced with a player.

-Frik

Frik - I don't want to get into details as Manny has no way of commenting so it isn't fair to him. I just believe you should always strive to treat people like you would want to be treated if at all possible.

Manny is Manny as his "friend" told us over and over again. I say great for Manny.

First time shame on you, and there won't be a 2nd time.

I am happy for my friend Mike (Nationals2K9) who I have helped with some Manny items and for so many others that collect Manny's items, as I do believe Manny is a great ball player.

xpress34
02-03-2009, 09:40 PM
He's got the third most hits in MAJOR LEAGUE POST SEASON HISTORY??

He's got the 2nd most RBI in MAJOR LEAGUE POST SEASON HISTORY??

He's #1...#1... in HOME RUNS in MAJOR LEAGUE POST SEASON HISTORY??


Yep, that's right... and he doesn't even SNIFF the TOP 10 in WS History in ANY Category...

So who won those WS??? Manny didn't do it alone....

The point being, you are comparing APPLES to ORANGES... if there had been Division Series, LCS and then WS back in the day, Manny wouldn't carry Mantle, Ruth, or even Yogi's jock... and I am by NO MEANS a Yankee fan - just a huge baseball fan...

Those guys ONLY got to play in WS games, so they have (on avg) just more than 1/2 the Post Season ABs as Manny and his Contemporaries, but their numbers (if transposed to corresponding ABs) would match Manny's numbers - or beat them in most cases (even if only by % points)

WS and PS

Batting Avg... Manny doesn't crack the Top 10 either side...
On Base %... again doesn't crack Top 10 either side...
Slug %... again, no Top 10 either side...
OPS... OOPS - no Top 10 here either Manny...

Games Played:
WS #1 - Yogi Berra (75 w/ 295 PA), #2 - Mickey Mantle (65 w/ 273 PA)
PS #4 - Manny (103 w/ 459 PA)

At Bats:
WS #1 - Yoggi Berra (259), #2 - Mickey Mantle (230)
PS #5 - Manny (378)

Runs:
WS #1 - Mantle (42), #2 - Berra (41)
PS #4 - Manny (64), #10 - Mantle (42 - ONLY WS Games)

Hits:
WS #1 - Berra (71), #2 - Mantle (59)
PS #3 (108)

Total Base:
WS #1 - Mantle (123), #2 - Berra (117)
PS #3 - Manny (208)

1B:
WS #1 - Berra (49), #2 - Frisch (45)
PS #6 - Manny (64)

2B:
WS #1 - (TIE) - Berra / Frisch (10)
PS #9 - (TIE) - Manny / Edmonds (16)

3B:
WS #1 - (3 Tied) - Speaker / Leach / Johnson (4)
PS - Manny (0)

HR:
WS #1 - Mantle (18), #2 - Ruth (15)
PS #1 - Manny (28), #3 - (Tied) - Jackson / Mantle (18 - ONLY WS Games for the Mick!)

RBI:
WS #1 - Mantle (40), #2 - Berra (39)
PS #2 - Manny (74), #9 - Mantle (40 - ONLY WS Games)

Base on Balls:
WS #1 - Mantle (43), #2 - Ruth (33)
PS #3 - Manny (70), #8 - Mantle (43 - again ONLY WS Games)

Stikeouts:
WS #1 - Mantle (54), #2 - Howard (37)
PS #2 - (TIED) Manny / Bernie Williams (85)

Stolen Bases - OOPS, No Manny either side here...

Extra Base Hits:
WS #1 - Mantle (26), #2 - (TIED) - Berra / Ruth (22)
PS #2 - Manny (44)

Times on Base:
WS #1 - Berra (106), #2 - Mantle (102)
PS #3 - Manny (183)

The other point to this being I'm not sure Manny even plays 154 FULL games in a regualr season anyway and these HOFer's played pretty much every day - and without all of the amenities today's players enjoy.

And the 'MannyGate' controversy where he couldn't even remember which knee hurt???

Mantle played on bad knees almost his entire career - imagine his numbers if he had had today's medical knowledge at his disposal??? He would have crushed every other player in baseball history.

And as far as Manny finishing in the TOP 10 in almost every Offensive Category... let's see:

Career BA:
#1 - Ty Cobb - .3664
#10 - (TIE) - Ruth / Brouthers - .3421
Manny - #74 - .3143

Career HR:
#1 - Bonds (*) - 762
#10 - Palmiero - 569
Manny - #17 - 527

Career RBI:
#1 - Aaron - 2297
#10 - Mays - 1903
Manny - #20 - 1725

YES, He has a very good shot - if he will quit being such a PRIMA DONNA and sign somewhere... if he doesn't play, his #'s go nowhere!!!

Right now he's acting like a SPOILED CHILD - and I've already said it once, but I'll say it again - he's really ruining his reputation as well with people losing their jobs and their houses daily and $25 MILLION isn't enough for him for a YEAR!!! Maybe the Dodgers would be willing to DONATE that to community projects to help save some famiies and their homes... I mean that Salary could support 500 families at $50,000 each...

And then reading about him refusing to be involved in Community Projects??? That just makes him a bigger jerk - good riddance!!!

I love the game, and I love watching amazing players, but when they become terrible human beings, I could care less what happens to them (i.e. Manny, Bonds, Sammy, Palmiero, etc...)

Again, my .02 and I'm entitled to it.

- Chris

frikativ54
02-03-2009, 09:40 PM
Frik - I don't want to get into details as Manny has no way of commenting so it isn't fair to him. I just believe you should always strive to treat people like you would want to be treated if at all possible.

Manny is Manny as his "friend" told us over and over again. I say great for Manny.

First time shame on you, and there won't be a 2nd time.

I am happy for my friend Mike (Nationals2K9) who I have helped with some Manny items and for so many others that collect Manny's items, as I do believe Manny is a great ball player.

Fair enough. I don't want to force you to tell your story. However, please understand that without more details, I cannnot revise my opinion of Manny.

xpress34
02-03-2009, 09:51 PM
Well, be fair, Manny wants long-term security. How many of you would take a one year deal, when there is potential to have several years worth of job security? And this is Manny's opportunity, because of his god-like performance with the Dodgers last year. So - I think it's only fair for him to get a multi-year deal.

-Frik

Les -

Nothing Personal, but Job Security my @$$!!! After what he pulled on Boston??? He has no loyalties to anyone but himself. And I'm sorry, but $25 MIL should give ANYONE the ability to be set for life but some of these rich overpaid jerks start living at a level that they HAVE to get the biggest contracts to maintain their lifestyles...

And the Dodgers offered a Multi-Year deal (2 years) to start and he and his even bigger Jack @$$ Agent Boras spit in the Dodgers faces.

Maybe he'll end up like Sosa when a few years ago he turned down a $1 MIL Guarantee (I believe from the Nationals) to come and try out for the team at Spring Training because he was INSULTED by their offer and no guarantee of a spot on the MLB roster... he sat out a year or so and then signed a $500,000 Minor League deal with the Rangers (after he had to swallow his pride) so he could get to 600 HRs... but of course he still treated the fans like dirt.

My .02...

- Chris

allstarsplus
02-03-2009, 09:54 PM
Fair enough. I don't want to force you to tell your story. However, please understand that without more details, I cannnot revise my opinion of Manny.

I wouldn't expect you to revise your opinion. When you look at the thread about good/bad signers, people have some differing opinions about the same person and many come down to one's own personal experiences.

I have had the opportunity to meet Manny and hang out with his guys and some people tell me how lucky I am so sure there are many different perspectives.

Manny is "The Man" to so many people, but I read these comments and some old emotions have percolated to the top.

XPRESS34 brings up some valid points in my opinion, but again, this is what makes sports great when we can agree to disagree.

skyking26
02-03-2009, 10:09 PM
Not to beat a dead horse, but I still think the Dodgers should sign Dunn/Hudson and Wolfe and pass on Manny. He can go play for the Giants and sniff last place...

eisenreich8
02-03-2009, 10:38 PM
I had a hard time finding this Gerry Callaham piece which appeared in the Boston Herald as Manny was leaving Beantown. The story was archived by the Herald so I had to cut and paste from another forum.

As far as Manny's bat goes, I will agree he's among the greatest. In every other category as a player and person, well, YOUR team can have him, and if you don't follow the Boston sports scene, you really can't appreciate the magnitude of what a cretin this guy is. Here's the column:


"No Dodging it: Manny Ramirez just a bad, bad man
By Gerry Callahan, Boston Herald
Friday, August 1, 2008 - Updated 2d 2h ago
A number of Red Sox [team stats] players were asked if they could make the short walk to a tent that was set up just outside the ballpark and say a quick hello to the kids.
There were 32 teenagers on the trip to Fort Myers this year, all big Red Sox fans, all battling cancer. Two of them had just lost a leg to the disease. Many were making their first trip to Red Sox camp, and some would never be back.
Most of the players didn’t hesitate to visit the kids because that’s what most players do - the decent thing, the right thing. Jason Varitek [stats] went down, so did David Ortiz [stats] and Kevin Youkilis [stats] and, of course, Tim Wakefield [stats], who quietly and selflessly does anything the folks at the Jimmy Fund ask of him.
They signed a few autographs and posed for photographs. They brought smiles to the faces of some kids who hadn’t had many reasons to smile. It was no big deal for the players, but a very big deal for the patients.
Of course, there was one Sox player who couldn’t be bothered to visit the kids because he never can be bothered. The kids loved him, but he didn’t give a damn about them. That’s how it works in Manny Ramirez [stats]’ world. You serve him or you serve no purpose at all.
The tent was no more than 90 feet from the ballpark, which means Ramirez could have been there in 5.7 seconds, even going his usual half-speed.
But he declined this year, just as he has declined for the last six. And, as always, no one was surprised. Why should he care about a bunch of sick teenagers when he doesn’t care about his teammates or his manager or the fans who enabled him and apologized for him for 7 1/2 years?
Well, you can say goodbye to the bad guy now. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Maybe Jason Bay will not be quite the cleanup hitter that Ramirez was (then again, maybe he will be), but we know this much before he even takes the field for the Red Sox: He is a better fielder, a better baserunner, a better teammate, a better person.
He probably won’t fake a knee injury, or slap a teammate, or throw a 64-year-old man to the ground because he couldn’t make tickets magically appear. He won’t give the manager ulcers or spit in the owners’ eye or treat the paying customers like suckers.
Just a guess here, but the kids from the Jimmy Fund Clinic are making the trip to Chicago next week. Bay will probably say hello.
There was always something uneasy about the love and adoration that Red Sox fans showered on Ramirez. The hard-hitting half-wit was born with the ability to put a bat on ball better than most mortals, but that’s where his virtues end. He doesn’t play the game right. Too often he doesn’t play the game hard. He cares about his contract and his hair and not much else.
He didn’t care about the wounded troops at Walter Reed Army Medical Center this past February. When most of his teammates, including all of the big stars, made the trip to Washington, he stayed behind. Probably no one on the team had the ability to make a down-on-his-luck Sox fan smile like Manny Ramirez did, but as usual, Ramirez couldn’t be bothered. As usual, teammates, fans and media made excuses for him. Again, the great hitter was allowed to be a rotten human being.
In a way, Ramirez represents the worst of professional sports - a man who is idolized because he has one, God-given physical skill. Some fans who would boo a player for popping up with the bases loaded had no problem cheering Ramirez days after he assaulted Red Sox traveling secretary Jack McCormick, a terrific gentleman who is almost 30 years older than the slugger.
According to his old high school coach, Ramirez promised to buy bats and balls and uniforms - things he could have gotten for free - for his needy alma mater. Last we checked, 17 years after he left school for the pros, the kids were still waiting. Their idol, their hero, the man who has made almost $200 million since he left George Washington High School in the Bronx, just couldn’t be bothered.
Red Sox owners treated Manny the Mutt like Leona Helmsley treated her Maltese. This season, reigning National League MVP Jimmy Rollins has been benched twice by the Phillies for violating team rules. As far as we know, Manny has never been benched or suspended by the Sox. The owners literally knocked down walls for him, making the Sox clubhouse more comfortable for this spoiled child.
And how does he repay them for their love and loyalty? By calling them liars and backstabbers. By saying they don’t deserve a player like him.
And in the end, he was right about that. The Red Sox [team stats] deserve better, and yesterday they got that in Bay. Maybe not a better hitter, but a better all-around player and a much better teammate.
In a way, Jason Bay has it easy. He is replacing a Hall of Famer, but when he walks into the clubhouse today, 24 players and one very relieved manager will welcome him like schoolgirls greeting Zac Efron. They’ll be happy to see him and even happier to see the bad guy gone.
Everyone can just relax and play baseball now. Manny is where he belongs. He’s a Dodger. The team formerly known as “Dem Bums” just got the biggest bum of them all."



No matter what team you pull for, I hope if you want Manny on your team you get him, at any price, and oooooooooh and ahhhhhhhh when he hits yet another majestic and meaningless (to your team's chances) long bomb, as it'll just be you, your ticket stub, and Manny. Love the Red Sox or hate them, they are the success story of the past 9 years in Baseball in that they came from the hateful Tom Yawkey era and morphed into a genius braintrust which has rarely misfired.

A previous poster jeered me as a non-fan because I appeared to not be grateful for the 2 world championships Manny brought to Boston. Hogwash. They won 2 titles DESPITE Manny's egocentric and manipulative and destructive presence.

Another pointed to Ortiz's struggles after Manny left. Huh? The guy had a virtually unusable wrist for most of the season, and although he surely missed having Manny around, don't you think it affected him to see Pedro go too?

Unfortunately, the Sox have taken and lost some gambles. Some mega egos got in the way of good chemistry and some contract issues were distractions. But I applaud them mightily for their determination to not kiss the bums of notable holdouts like Damon, Pedro, Varitek, Lowe and others. There are a few bumbles too like passing on O. Cabrera and not keeping Millar for another year or two.

Whoever gets Manny, enjoy whatever comes your way. But make sure if you love his brand of baseball, you take the good with the bad. Try to see that the Red Sox organization knows more about Manny than the Dodgers do.

frikativ54
02-03-2009, 10:45 PM
I had a hard time finding this Gerry Callaham piece which appeared in the Boston Herald as Manny was leaving Beantown. The story was archived by the Herald so I had to cut and paste from another forum.

As far as Manny's bat goes, I will agree he's among the greatest. In every other category as a player and person, well, YOUR team can have him, and if you don't follow the Boston sports scene, you really can't appreciate the magnitude of what a cretin this guy is. Here's the column:


"No Dodging it: Manny Ramirez just a bad, bad man
By Gerry Callahan, Boston Herald
Friday, August 1, 2008 - Updated 2d 2h ago
A number of Red Sox [team stats] players were asked if they could make the short walk to a tent that was set up just outside the ballpark and say a quick hello to the kids.
There were 32 teenagers on the trip to Fort Myers this year, all big Red Sox fans, all battling cancer. Two of them had just lost a leg to the disease. Many were making their first trip to Red Sox camp, and some would never be back.
Most of the players didn’t hesitate to visit the kids because that’s what most players do - the decent thing, the right thing. Jason Varitek [stats] went down, so did David Ortiz [stats] and Kevin Youkilis [stats] and, of course, Tim Wakefield [stats], who quietly and selflessly does anything the folks at the Jimmy Fund ask of him.
They signed a few autographs and posed for photographs. They brought smiles to the faces of some kids who hadn’t had many reasons to smile. It was no big deal for the players, but a very big deal for the patients.
Of course, there was one Sox player who couldn’t be bothered to visit the kids because he never can be bothered. The kids loved him, but he didn’t give a damn about them. That’s how it works in Manny Ramirez [stats]’ world. You serve him or you serve no purpose at all.
The tent was no more than 90 feet from the ballpark, which means Ramirez could have been there in 5.7 seconds, even going his usual half-speed.
But he declined this year, just as he has declined for the last six. And, as always, no one was surprised. Why should he care about a bunch of sick teenagers when he doesn’t care about his teammates or his manager or the fans who enabled him and apologized for him for 7 1/2 years?
Well, you can say goodbye to the bad guy now. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Maybe Jason Bay will not be quite the cleanup hitter that Ramirez was (then again, maybe he will be), but we know this much before he even takes the field for the Red Sox: He is a better fielder, a better baserunner, a better teammate, a better person.
He probably won’t fake a knee injury, or slap a teammate, or throw a 64-year-old man to the ground because he couldn’t make tickets magically appear. He won’t give the manager ulcers or spit in the owners’ eye or treat the paying customers like suckers.
Just a guess here, but the kids from the Jimmy Fund Clinic are making the trip to Chicago next week. Bay will probably say hello.
There was always something uneasy about the love and adoration that Red Sox fans showered on Ramirez. The hard-hitting half-wit was born with the ability to put a bat on ball better than most mortals, but that’s where his virtues end. He doesn’t play the game right. Too often he doesn’t play the game hard. He cares about his contract and his hair and not much else.
He didn’t care about the wounded troops at Walter Reed Army Medical Center this past February. When most of his teammates, including all of the big stars, made the trip to Washington, he stayed behind. Probably no one on the team had the ability to make a down-on-his-luck Sox fan smile like Manny Ramirez did, but as usual, Ramirez couldn’t be bothered. As usual, teammates, fans and media made excuses for him. Again, the great hitter was allowed to be a rotten human being.
In a way, Ramirez represents the worst of professional sports - a man who is idolized because he has one, God-given physical skill. Some fans who would boo a player for popping up with the bases loaded had no problem cheering Ramirez days after he assaulted Red Sox traveling secretary Jack McCormick, a terrific gentleman who is almost 30 years older than the slugger.
According to his old high school coach, Ramirez promised to buy bats and balls and uniforms - things he could have gotten for free - for his needy alma mater. Last we checked, 17 years after he left school for the pros, the kids were still waiting. Their idol, their hero, the man who has made almost $200 million since he left George Washington High School in the Bronx, just couldn’t be bothered.
Red Sox owners treated Manny the Mutt like Leona Helmsley treated her Maltese. This season, reigning National League MVP Jimmy Rollins has been benched twice by the Phillies for violating team rules. As far as we know, Manny has never been benched or suspended by the Sox. The owners literally knocked down walls for him, making the Sox clubhouse more comfortable for this spoiled child.
And how does he repay them for their love and loyalty? By calling them liars and backstabbers. By saying they don’t deserve a player like him.
And in the end, he was right about that. The Red Sox [team stats] deserve better, and yesterday they got that in Bay. Maybe not a better hitter, but a better all-around player and a much better teammate.
In a way, Jason Bay has it easy. He is replacing a Hall of Famer, but when he walks into the clubhouse today, 24 players and one very relieved manager will welcome him like schoolgirls greeting Zac Efron. They’ll be happy to see him and even happier to see the bad guy gone.
Everyone can just relax and play baseball now. Manny is where he belongs. He’s a Dodger. The team formerly known as “Dem Bums” just got the biggest bum of them all."



No matter what team you pull for, I hope if you want Manny on your team you get him, at any price, and oooooooooh and ahhhhhhhh when he hits yet another majestic and meaningless (to your team's chances) long bomb, as it'll just be you, your ticket stub, and Manny. Love the Red Sox or hate them, they are the success story of the past 9 years in Baseball in that they came from the hateful Tom Yawkey era and morphed into a genius braintrust which has rarely misfired.

A previous poster jeered me as a non-fan because I appeared to not be grateful for the 2 world championships Manny brought to Boston. Hogwash. They won 2 titles DESPITE Manny's egocentric and manipulative and destructive presence.

Another pointed to Ortiz's struggles after Manny left. Huh? The guy had a virtually unusable wrist for most of the season, and although he surely missed having Manny around, don't you think it affected him to see Pedro go too?

Unfortunately, the Sox have taken and lost some gambles. Some mega egos got in the way of good chemistry and some contract issues were distractions. But I applaud them mightily for their determination to not kiss the bums of notable holdouts like Damon, Pedro, Varitek, Lowe and others. There are a few bumbles too like passing on O. Cabrera and not keeping Millar for another year or two.

Whoever gets Manny, enjoy whatever comes your way. But make sure if you love his brand of baseball, you take the good with the bad. Try to see that the Red Sox organization knows more about Manny than the Dodgers do.


Sounds like a bitter, bitter fan/writer. I would like to know what/if any charity work Manny has done...is he always like this? Is there another side to the story? Is there a reason why Manny has become like this?

skyking26
02-03-2009, 10:48 PM
Manny makes me sick.

eisenreich8
02-03-2009, 10:55 PM
Les,

I thoughtlessly left out that Gerry Callahan is a columnist for the Boston Herald and also a daily cohost of the Dennis and Callahan sports talk show in Boston.

Callahan recently survived throat cancer and was treated before this piece was published. Could serve as a disclaimer for Callahan's rancor. But he certainly spills his guts. Not every fan's cup of tea for sure but they give him the back page so he gets a lot of readers.

frikativ54
02-03-2009, 10:59 PM
Les,

I thoughtlessly left out that Gerry Callahan is a columnist for the Boston Herald and also a daily cohost of the Dennis and Callahan sports talk show in Boston.

Callahan recently survived throat cancer and was treated before this piece was published. Could serve as a disclaimer for Callahan's rancor. But he certainly spills his guts. Not every fan's cup of tea for sure but they give him the back page so he gets a lot of readers.

Thanks for that information; that better contextualizes the acerbic comments. A piece with real merit would have gone through Manny's history with Boston, Cleveland, etc., and have showed his attitudes toward charity work and autograph signing. That would have been interesting to read. However, this writer has little more than a grudge against Manny for actions that a lot of us find to be unreasonable.

metsbats
02-03-2009, 11:05 PM
We can't blame just Manny for rejecting 25 million

Rob L
02-03-2009, 11:07 PM
Manny being Manny is precisely why nobody else has taken a long hard look at him. The Dodgers were smart (Gosh, I hate saying that) in only offering a 1 year contract. It is the only sure fire way that a team has for him to be the player that he can be. If he took their original offer of 2 years with a third year option, he would end up being unhappy because he couldn't get the contract he feels he deserves (5 years). Signing him to a contract year assures he will perform.

That being said, I still want to see a Manny - Vlad combination:D

suicide_squeeze
02-04-2009, 12:45 AM
Thanks for that information; that better contextualizes the acerbic comments. A piece with real merit would have gone through Manny's history with Boston, Cleveland, etc., and have showed his attitudes toward charity work and autograph signing. That would have been interesting to read. However, this writer has little more than a grudge against Manny for actions that a lot of us find to be unreasonable.

Well put, Les. I got the same (obvious) impression.

Look......I'm not claiming I know anything about Manny Ramirez and his off-the-field antics.

I do know that if Andrew Lang says he had an "experience" while meeting Manny that was less than memorable.....I believe him.

But as a Dodger fan, I am perplexed.

WHY would the Dodgers make Manny a one year offer?

YES, the money is tremendous. But it's ALWAYS been about the LENGTH OF TIME the offer would be....Manny was looking for a MULTI-YEAR deal.

So one has to draw the conclusion that the Dodgers did that as a negotiative ploy...now maybe they can get Manny for 3 years instead of 4? I'm not sure.....maybe it was one last "Up YOURS" to Boras who originally wrote off the Dodgers 2-year offer for $45 Mil as "We'll wait to entertain some SERIOUS offers" in retribution?

But if that were true, why would you want to shed your possible team leader and superstar in the light the Dodgers have just done, by making him look greedy by turning down an offer they surely KNEW he wouldn't accept because of the TIME FRAME alone? How does that build up a good relationship with a guy you are trying to sign?

Man....the whole thing is a mess.

And on top of that.......I have to keep beating all you MANNY HATERS back with my own bat!! ;)

We'll see....this is going to be an interesting few weeks before spring training.....

allstarsplus
02-04-2009, 08:16 AM
Look......I'm not claiming I know anything about Manny Ramirez and his off-the-field antics.

I do know that if Andrew Lang says he had an "experience" while meeting Manny that was less than memorable.....I believe him.

But as a Dodger fan, I am perplexed.

And on top of that.......I have to keep beating all you MANNY HATERS back with my own bat!! ;)

We'll see....this is going to be an interesting few weeks before spring training.....

Steve - Well said, and I only know about my 1 encounter with Manny and his guys. If you want to call me, I will give you the summary. Like I said, I don't think it is fair to re-hash it here as Manny doesn't have the opportunity to respond.

On the Manny signing, selfishly I want him to stay with the Dodgers so the Washington Nationals can sign Adam Dunn because supposedly Adam Dunn is waiting to see what the Dodgers do.....

Another soap opera!

skyking26
02-04-2009, 08:22 AM
Well put, Les. I got the same (obvious) impression.

Look......I'm not claiming I know anything about Manny Ramirez and his off-the-field antics.

I do know that if Andrew Lang says he had an "experience" while meeting Manny that was less than memorable.....I believe him.

But as a Dodger fan, I am perplexed.

WHY would the Dodgers make Manny a one year offer?

YES, the money is tremendous. But it's ALWAYS been about the LENGTH OF TIME the offer would be....Manny was looking for a MULTI-YEAR deal.

So one has to draw the conclusion that the Dodgers did that as a negotiative ploy...now maybe they can get Manny for 3 years instead of 4? I'm not sure.....maybe it was one last "Up YOURS" to Boras who originally wrote off the Dodgers 2-year offer for $45 Mil as "We'll wait to entertain some SERIOUS offers" in retribution?

But if that were true, why would you want to shed your possible team leader and superstar in the light the Dodgers have just done, by making him look greedy by turning down an offer they surely KNEW he wouldn't accept because of the TIME FRAME alone? How does that build up a good relationship with a guy you are trying to sign?

Man....the whole thing is a mess.

And on top of that.......I have to keep beating all you MANNY HATERS back with my own bat!! ;)

We'll see....this is going to be an interesting few weeks before spring training.....
Suicide/Frik: Hey, we are all fans here...certified baseball nuts. I love the game. I've read many a negative column about Dave Kingman through the years. I've known him since 92 and have yet to have a negative experience, but that is me. I understand your devotion to a guy like Manny, etc. That said, no need to continue to question the "Manny Haters" if you will. The piece about Manny's refusal year after year to speak for 60 seconds to a child with cancer (that he has to walk past) speaks volumes... In my book it's a nuff-said no brainer.

You both go on, wave your flags, and say your prayers that your man will get his zillion dollar contract til his last breath....all the while Americans lose their jobs D-A-I-L-Y. I'm a proud US citizen, and I believe you can promote whatever you wish. I don't have to believe in it, and I think I'll find many backers herein...

skyking26
02-04-2009, 08:29 AM
Steve - Well said, and I only know about my 1 encounter with Manny and his guys. If you want to call me, I will give you the summary. Like I said, I don't think it is fair to re-hash it here as Manny doesn't have the opportunity to respond.

On the Manny signing, selfishly I want him to stay with the Dodgers so the Washington Nationals can sign Adam Dunn because supposedly Adam Dunn is waiting to see what the Dodgers do.....

Another soap opera!
I agree Andrew, I believe this is what Adam is doing!!! I think LA should sign Adam, Hudson and one more and leave Manny be. Boras perhaps does not understand that LA is Manny's ONLY $$ option...

I'm sure Dunn is aware he could sign with WA in a second, for a year if he has to. He's played with the Reds so long in a losing atmosphere I'm sure he would prefer a contender (LA). If Manny signs with LA, no doubt you'll see Dunn in a Nationals uni. Reason is pretty obvious - not 1 other team wants a 40 HR/ 100 RBI guy. Say what you want about K's...look at OB% and the RBI's...that is what matters.

allstarsplus
02-04-2009, 08:39 AM
That said, no need to continue to question the "Manny Haters" if you will.

I am not a Manny Hater, as I respect his work ethic. Spending time with Manny I saw him as the 1st player awake in the morning as he left the hotel before 9AM to go lift weights at the gym. His friend said Manny gets back after games and doesn't go out to the bars so he is early to bed and early to rise and also early to the ballpark. That is impressive so I have to respect that. As far as off the field, Manny hopefully will work at that too.

Breaking news about the Yankees! Just read this quote----

"I do hear rumblings [that] people actually expect us to get in on Manny. That's not going to happen," said general manager Brian Cashman.

xpress34
02-04-2009, 09:12 AM
Breaking news about the Yankees! Just read this quote----

"I do hear rumblings [that] people actually expect us to get in on Manny. That's not going to happen," said general manager Brian Cashman.

Actually, the Yankees CAN NOT sign Manny. Period.

Look at the Collective Bargaining Agreement - the Yankees have already signed their 'fill' Of Type A and Type B Free Agents who were with other teams last year. That alone BARS the Yankees from even being able to consider going after Manny until next year - or unless someone else signs him and the Yankees TRADE for him.

Under the agreement, a team can sign as many Free Agents as it wants of players who played for their team the previous season to retain their services, but they can only sign 5 Type A / Type B Free Agents from other teams.

The rule is in place to keep a team like the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers who have deep pockets from simply buying up all the Free Agents each year.

That said, unless (or until) Manny SIGNS somewhere, you can forget about the Yankees even being able to consider him until next year.

- Chris

cjclong
02-04-2009, 09:57 AM
Offered $25 million (most people would consider that "winning the lottery"), a salary which if wisely invested would set most people up for life and would make him for one year the 2nd highest paid player in baseball, and its not enough. There are some people who think because a person is an athlete any amount of salary is great, $25 billion would not be enough for the pleasure they give us. But I think gradually there are a lot more people who are coming to believe that players turning up their noses at at contracts like this is a turn off. Its part of our society and not limited to sport, we're seeing it in CEO's of major companies too. This is a free country and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when millions are loosing their jobs and out of work its hard to feel too sorry for a player who turns down $25 million and does not always give 100% for his millions.

skyking26
02-04-2009, 12:01 PM
Offered $25 million (most people would consider that "winning the lottery"), a salary which if wisely invested would set most people up for life and would make him for one year the 2nd highest paid player in baseball, and its not enough. There are some people who think because a person is an athlete any amount of salary is great, $25 billion would not be enough for the pleasure they give us. But I think gradually there are a lot more people who are coming to believe that players turning up their noses at at contracts like this is a turn off. Its part of our society and not limited to sport, we're seeing it in CEO's of major companies too. This is a free country and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when millions are loosing their jobs and out of work its hard to feel too sorry for a player who turns down $25 million and does not always give 100% for his millions.
Exactly CJ. It's not like Manny is evaluating other offers from another team. Nobody is even close. He should have taken it for a year, and then if he has another great year (which he should), you have a better bargaining position at that point for more years.

chakes89
02-04-2009, 02:32 PM
Maybe he doesn't want to play for the Dodgers anymore and that is why he keeps rejecting their offers

Just a thought

mwbosoxfan
02-04-2009, 02:57 PM
Actually, the Yankees CAN NOT sign Manny. Period.

Look at the Collective Bargaining Agreement - the Yankees have already signed their 'fill' Of Type A and Type B Free Agents who were with other teams last year. That alone BARS the Yankees from even being able to consider going after Manny until next year - or unless someone else signs him and the Yankees TRADE for him.

Under the agreement, a team can sign as many Free Agents as it wants of players who played for their team the previous season to retain their services, but they can only sign 5 Type A / Type B Free Agents from other teams.

The rule is in place to keep a team like the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers who have deep pockets from simply buying up all the Free Agents each year.

That said, unless (or until) Manny SIGNS somewhere, you can forget about the Yankees even being able to consider him until next year.

- Chris

Wrong........See below


Limit on free-agent signings is up

Teams can sign up to eight Type A, B players due to flooded market

By Barry M. Bloom / MLB.com



Because of an exception granted, the Yankees -- or any other team -- can sign as many as eight Type A or Type B free agents this season, a top baseball official said on Friday.

Thus, if the Yankees were so inclined, they could still sign pitcher Ben Sheets or left fielder Manny Ramirez if there are millions more dollars remaining in the Steinbrenner bank.

Under rules stated in the Basic Agreement, an exception was made this offseason because of the high number of free agents on the market -- a combined 216 between six-year free agents filing before Nov. 14 and players who weren't tendered contracts on Dec. 12, said Rob Manfred, Major League Baseball's executive vice president of labor relations and human resources.

Manfred corrected earlier speculation that no exception had been asked for or given this offseason.

"The facts are that an exception was given early in the free-agency season because of the high amount of free agents filing this year," Manfred said.

The Yankees have already signed five Type A free agents -- CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Mark Teixeira and their own Andy Pettitte and Damaso Marte. The quota, as defined in the collectively bargained rules established by management and the Players Association, state, "if there are from 39 to 62 players [filing], no team can sign more than three."

Manfred negotiates these kinds of terms with the Major League Baseball Players Association. The current Basic Agreement, agreed upon after the 2006 season, doesn't expire until Dec. 31, 2011.

The agreement goes on to say that if there are "more than 62 such players, the club quota shall be increased accordingly."

In any event, after signing five free agents at a guaranteed total cost of $447.5 million spread out over the next eight years, it appears the Yankees are done spending this offseason and are no longer in the market.


Rules about compensatory Draft picks have led to some confusion this offseason.

Only Type A or Type B free agents who have turned down arbitration yield compensation picks. That means the Brewers, who offered Sabathia arbitration, wound up being compensated by the Yankees with their second-round pick in next June's First-Year Player Draft. The Padres, on the other hand, didn't receive a pick for all-time career saves leader Trevor Hoffman when he signed with the Brewers, because he wasn't offered arbitration.

The main reason a club might decline to offer arbitration is that it's more concerned with the amount of money an arbitrator might award to the player than preserving the possibility of a compensatory Draft pick.

This year, 24 of the 63 players in that group were offered arbitration. Two of the 24, Darren Oliver of the Angels and David Weathers of the Reds, accepted arbitration and returned to those clubs. Thus, 22 of 216 free agents this year, or about 10 percent, carry Draft-pick compensation if they are signed by another club.

With 11 Type A (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090130&content_id=3785640&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy#type a) and Type B free agents who were offered arbitration unsigned, the question arose regarding what might happen if one of them signed with a Major League club after the Draft, to be held in June.

The list of unsigned Type A players includes Ramirez, Oliver Perez, Jason Varitek, Orlando Cabrera, Juan Cruz, Orlando Hudson and Sheets. The Type B list includes Mark Grudzielanek, Paul Byrd, Dennys Reyes and Brian Shouse. "It's always been our position that if [a player] goes past the Draft, the compensation goes away," Manfred said, adding that it has never happened.

allstarsplus
02-04-2009, 03:13 PM
Wrong........See below


Limit on free-agent signings is up

Teams can sign up to eight Type A, B players due to flooded market

By Barry M. Bloom / MLB.com




The Yankees have already signed five Type A free agents -- CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Mark Teixeira and their own Andy Pettitte and Damaso Marte. .

Thanks for that.

I had only counted 3 against the 5 slots anyway because I didn't realize that signing your own Type A/B as was applicable to the overall number as was the case with Petitte and Marte.

That doesn't make much sense to me that your own player would count, but anyway your clarification set this all straight.

I appreciate it.

mwbosoxfan
02-04-2009, 03:19 PM
Thanks for that.

I had only counted 3 against the 5 slots anyway because I didn't realize that signing your own Type A/B as was applicable to the overall number as was the case with Petitte and Marte.

That doesn't make much sense to me that your own player would count, but anyway your clarification set this all straight.

I appreciate it.

Andrew,

Glad the article helped. I included the part about the confusion concerning compensatory draft picks - might have helped if Varitek would have read the article. :D

John

allstarsplus
02-04-2009, 03:27 PM
I hope this link works as it is 3 video clips on ESPN about the Manny situation.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3883330

camarokids
02-04-2009, 03:30 PM
According to an interview on MLB.com with Brian Cashman. The yanks could sign Manny, but have no interest.

Here is an excerpt from the article....

Technically, the Yankees could improve even more and pursue a Type A free agent like Ramirez, which would be completely within baseball's rules.


complete article here.....

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090204&content_id=3796882&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

eisenreich8
02-04-2009, 03:30 PM
Actually, the Yankees would be a great homecoming for Manny, they can afford him, his old teammates in LL and HS could root him on from the stands, and the clash of mega egos would make for the best press in years (Tex, A-Rod, Manny), so I am now fixated on him getting a deal done with the Yanks. The media in NY will have way more to write about than they can possibly handle!

allstarsplus
02-04-2009, 04:40 PM
Actually, the Yankees would be a great homecoming for Manny, they can afford him, his old teammates in LL and HS could root him on from the stands, and the clash of mega egos would make for the best press in years (Tex, A-Rod, Manny), so I am now fixated on him getting a deal done with the Yanks. The media in NY will have way more to write about than they can possibly handle!

That is Boras's dream to get the Yankees in the mix, but sounds like that isn't going to happen according to Cashman.

According to Buster Olney, it is the Dodgers or to the SF Giants which I would guess would not be any where near $25 mill per year.

Don't be surprised if Manny and the Dodgers finish a deal by tomorrow for 2 years at $46 to $48 million as the Cashman revelation doesn't give Boras many viable options.

skyking26
02-04-2009, 04:48 PM
I would love to see Dunn in Dodger blue...

Love to see Manny with the Giants, or sitting out somewhere.

Mr.3000
02-04-2009, 05:10 PM
I'd love to see Manny with the Mets. The fans want him.

mwbosoxfan
02-04-2009, 05:52 PM
That is Boras's dream to get the Yankees in the mix, but sounds like that isn't going to happen according to Cashman.



Didn't Cashman say that they were not persuing Mark Teixeira when the timeline after the fact pretty much showed that the Yankees were in it most of the way? My point is that if the deals for Manny get serious on a one year basis, I think that revives possibilities with a few more teams, including the Bombers.

John

xpress34
02-04-2009, 05:55 PM
Wrong........See below

Limit on free-agent signings is up

Teams can sign up to eight Type A, B players due to flooded market

By Barry M. Bloom / MLB.com

Because of an exception granted, the Yankees -- or any other team -- can sign as many as eight Type A or Type B free agents this season, a top baseball official said on Friday.

Thus, if the Yankees were so inclined, they could still sign pitcher Ben Sheets or left fielder Manny Ramirez if there are millions more dollars remaining in the Steinbrenner bank.

Under rules stated in the Basic Agreement, an exception was made this offseason because of the high number of free agents on the market -- a combined 216 between six-year free agents filing before Nov. 14 and players who weren't tendered contracts on Dec. 12, said Rob Manfred, Major League Baseball's executive vice president of labor relations and human resources.

Manfred corrected earlier speculation that no exception had been asked for or given this offseason.

"The facts are that an exception was given early in the free-agency season because of the high amount of free agents filing this year," Manfred said.

The Yankees have already signed five Type A free agents -- CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Mark Teixeira and their own Andy Pettitte and Damaso Marte. The quota, as defined in the collectively bargained rules established by management and the Players Association, state, "if there are from 39 to 62 players [filing], no team can sign more than three."

Manfred negotiates these kinds of terms with the Major League Baseball Players Association. The current Basic Agreement, agreed upon after the 2006 season, doesn't expire until Dec. 31, 2011.

The agreement goes on to say that if there are "more than 62 such players, the club quota shall be increased accordingly."

In any event, after signing five free agents at a guaranteed total cost of $447.5 million spread out over the next eight years, it appears the Yankees are done spending this offseason and are no longer in the market.

I'll have to find the article I just read the other day - I was going on the article I read that stated that no adjustment had been voted on in this past Winter Meetings. And based on that information, I was completely correct in my statement before.

In fact here it is... and you know what's so funny about it??? It's your man Barry Bllom (who you are quoting above) who made the statement that the Yankees reached their Free Agent Quota... so chew on that!!!

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/baseball-insider/2009/01/the_yankees_wont_sign_manny_be.html

AND to be quite blunt, your man Rob Manfred is also the one who said that NO Increased Quota was asked for... so BOTH Bloom and Manfred have changed their tunes since this article from the Washington Post - just printed Jan 30th (5 days ago)!?!?!?

So, before you get all sefl righteous with your WRONG statement, maybe you should dig a little deeper - sorry I didn't quote this article earlier.

You are correct about the 'Flooded Market' - but only IF the teams vote an exception the amount of A and B Free Agents teams can sign (in other words they agree to 'adjust' the number - see below), and - again - the article I read stated that MLB passed on voting on that issue at this past Winter Meetings. It is not an automatic exception to the number of players based on being a flooded market.

This is the Section from the CBA:

From the Quota section of the Collective Bargaining Agreement:
If there are 14 or less such Players, no Club may sign more than one Type A or B Player.

If there are from 15 to 38 such Players, no Club may sign more than two Type A or B Players.

If there are from 39 to 62 such Players, no Club may sign more than three Type A or B Players.

If there are more than 62 such Players, the Club quotas shall be increased accordingly.

There shall be no restrictions on the number of unranked Players that a Club may sign to contracts.
The caveat:

A Club shall be eligible to sign at least as many Type A and B Players as it may have lost through Players having become free agents under this Section at the close of the season just concluded.
But all that aside, the Yankees have another HUGE issue that will STOP them from being able to sign Manny:

The Yankees 40 Man Roster is FULL and they would have to cut or trade someone to absorb Manny (obviously if Manny refused 1 Yr, $25Mil he won't sign a Minor League deal regardless of promises)

Here is a great article on the other reason the Yankees won't/can't sign Manny:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/119067-pinstripe-problems-why-the-yankees-cant-get-manny-ramirez

So, there's my source information for my earlier statement - and again, ironic that the same two guys you quote to tell me I'm WRONG are the SAME two guys where I got my information!!!!

mwbosoxfan
02-04-2009, 06:29 PM
In fact here it is... and you know what's so funny about it??? It's your man Barry Bllom (who you are quoting above) who made the statement that the Yankees reached their Free Agent Quota... so chew on that!!!

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/baseball-insider/2009/01/the_yankees_wont_sign_manny_be.html

AND to be quite blunt, your man Rob Manfred is also the one who said that NO Increased Quota was asked for... so BOTH Bloom and Manfred have changed their tunes since this article from the Washington Post - just printed Jan 30th (5 days ago)!?!?!?

So, before you get all sefl righteous with your WRONG statement, maybe you should dig a little deeper - sorry I didn't quote this article earlier.

So, there's my source information for my earlier statement - and again, ironic that the same two guys you quote to tell me I'm WRONG are the SAME two guys where I got my information!!!!

Chris, you are right. I didn't dig very deep. I simply copied an article that was posted on MLB.com that I assumed to be accurate. I read this article a couple of days ago, so I'm sorry to tell you that you are wrong in your post. You posted several words in bold print to imply strongly that they cannot sign Manny. I didn't mean to come off self righteous, but found them inaccurate. If it wasn't a possibility, I also thought that more in the mainstream baseball analytical world would've been talking about that the Yankees couldn't sign him if that were the case. Sorry, should've explained in more words, than just said, "wrong".

John

allstarsplus
02-04-2009, 08:09 PM
Something is missing here. Why would Cashman say they wouldn't pursue Manny if by rule he couldn't any way?

Wouldn't he say, we are out of Free Agent options so we can't pursue Manny?

camarokids
02-04-2009, 08:15 PM
Something is missing here. Why would Cashman say they wouldn't pursue Manny if by rule he couldn't any way?

Wouldn't he say, we are out of Free Agent options so we can't pursue Manny?

I don't know what is right. But I was reading the article on mlb.com that I posted a link to after reading on GUU that the Yanks were out of options.

So what is correct???

Could the Yanks try and sign MR if they wanted to???

xpress34
02-04-2009, 08:38 PM
Chris, you are right. I didn't dig very deep. I simply copied an article that was posted on MLB.com that I assumed to be accurate. I read this article a couple of days ago, so I'm sorry to tell you that you are wrong in your post. You posted several words in bold print to imply strongly that they cannot sign Manny. I didn't mean to come off self righteous, but found them inaccurate. If it wasn't a possibility, I also thought that more in the mainstream baseball analytical world would've been talking about that the Yankees couldn't sign him if that were the case. Sorry, should've explained in more words, than just said, "wrong".

John

John -

We're all good... it's baseball! We're supposed to get heated if we're passionate about it... right?

My Apologies as well...

All the best -

Chris

P.S. - don't you find it strange though the both Bloom and Manfred have both been quoted (within the a few days of each quote even) of having stated the situation to be BOTH ways???

mwbosoxfan
02-04-2009, 10:23 PM
Something is missing here. Why would Cashman say they wouldn't pursue Manny if by rule he couldn't any way?

Wouldn't he say, we are out of Free Agent options so we can't pursue Manny?


I don't know what is right. But I was reading the article on mlb.com that I posted a link to after reading on GUU that the Yanks were out of options.

So what is correct???

Could the Yanks try and sign MR if they wanted to???

I believe the article I copied from MLB.com is the latest clarification. I read the same thing referenced in the Boston Globe also. I posted to Chris the very thing that you mentioned, Andrew, only looking from the view of the baseball analysts to comment. Between MLB Network, SI, and ESPN baseball analysts, someone would have brought up the fact they were out of options if they were. I agree, Cashman would have said the same thing I would assume. Camaro, yes, the Yanks could sign him if they wanted to, but would have to make room. I heard that they're still wanting to trade Swisher and Nady.



John -

We're all good... it's baseball! We're supposed to get heated if we're passionate about it... right?

My Apologies as well...

All the best -

Chris

P.S. - don't you find it strange though the both Bloom and Manfred have both been quoted (within the a few days of each quote even) of having stated the situation to be BOTH ways???

Thanks, Chris. I wonder if the articles you referenced may have caused the office of MLB to clarify the ruling, thus the later article on MLB.com?

xpress34
02-05-2009, 08:43 AM
Thanks, Chris. I wonder if the articles you referenced may have caused the office of MLB to clarify the ruling, thus the later article on MLB.com?

John -

No Problem. And yes, that could be the case. Maybe they felt they got caught with their pants down.

- Chris