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gameu08
01-10-2009, 10:40 AM
I was recently thinking of something to start collecting in regards to game used items. I was thinking of of collecting sure fire HOFers before the prices get way out of hand. I have a Manny bat coming soon so thats one down. I know Arod,Jeter,Pujols are definites for the hall. What are your thoughts on Pudge,Thomas, Thome, Chipper, Vlad with taking in in the steriods scandal and everything that went down do you think these guys will be going? Any other guys playing right now that you think are worth collecting taking the HOF fact into consideration?

thanks
Mike
Raidersin04@yahoo.com
__________________________________________________ ________________
Looking to get some prices on a Biggio gamer as well as where I can obtain one?

ndevlin
01-10-2009, 10:47 AM
I think Thomas, Thome will get in. Chipper I think needs to do a little more. The reason why I say that is if he stays healthy. Plus, his bats arent that cheap as it is. Vlad better step it up.

AWA85
01-10-2009, 10:52 AM
Griffey Jr, can't forget JUNIOR!

Out of the guys you mentioned without really looking at the stats I would say Chipper, Pudge and Thomas look like locks. I image Vlad will get in if he plays a few more years, and Thome will have the home run numbers to get in probably. Thome does not excite me as much, but that is just my opinion.

allstarsplus
01-10-2009, 11:14 AM
I know Arod,Jeter,Pujols are definites for the hall.

thanks
Mike
Raidersin04@yahoo.com
__________________________________________________ ________________
Looking to get some prices on a Biggio gamer as well as where I can obtain one?

There aren't definites any more. Go back 10 years and who would have thought that Clemens, McGwire and Bonds wouldn't be locks for the HOF.

ndevlin
01-10-2009, 11:43 AM
I dont think Pudge is a real HOF'er, but they go by whole statistics, as well as for that position. So for a catcher, I guess Pudge will go in. For a steriod user I suppose.

earlywynnfan
01-10-2009, 11:51 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't think Chipper is a definite HOFer? I know, you can make a really nice case, but if you have to make a really nice case, can he be considered a "lock"??

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

ndevlin
01-10-2009, 11:58 AM
I dont think he is a lock quite yet. Great player when he was healthy, but he needs to show me a few more years to get in. If we put him in, we probably should throw in Dawson and McGriff while we're at it.

godwulf
01-10-2009, 01:09 PM
The only things in my collection that relate to a "lock" future HOF member, are my Randy Johnson items - six bats and a fielder's glove. I admire guys like Pudge and Chipper, but don't have any strong desire to collect their stuff. A good portion of my collection consists of items (mostly bats and some jerseys) from guys who've only been in the Majors for a few years, so only time will tell. Brandon Webb? Carlos Quentin? I'd sure like to think so; ask me again in ten years.

Since somebody brought up Bonds, I sense that the concensus here is pretty much that he will only ever see the Hall as a visitor...whereas on most forums, predictions are a bit more mixed. Does anyone still think that there's a good chance (or any chance at all) that Bonds could ever be voted in?

Bondsgloves
01-10-2009, 01:21 PM
Don't worry Bonds will get in no doubt! The guy was a sure fire Hall of Famer before 1999. The guy was more than 1 dimensional than McGwire. He was a Gold Glove fielder, over 500+ stolen bases, 40/40, Multiple MVP's. He was simply the best in the game before and after any steroid discussion. The guy was player of the decade in the 90's. Even post 1999 compare him to his peers that were on the "juice" pitchers as well as hitters and he was still the best in the game.

Dewey2007
01-10-2009, 01:38 PM
Does anyone still think that there's a good chance (or any chance at all) that Bonds could ever be voted in?

I think he's 50/50 right now and it all depends on how his perjury trial goes later on this year. Although HOF voting has proven with McGwire that it will take into account the presumpion of guilt (in the public eye). Even if Bonds is cleared of perjury charges sportswriters might still feel that he cheated regardless and not vote for him based on the evidence that they feel has already been established. Plus he didn't have the most charming personality so that works against him too.

I'm just happy that Rickey is going in this year and I can't wait to hear his induction speech!!

joelsabi
01-10-2009, 01:43 PM
I think he's 50/50 right now and it all depends on how his perjury trial goes later on this year. Although HOF voting has proven with McGwire that it will take into account the presumpion of guilt (in the public eye). Even if Bonds is cleared of perjury charges sportswriters might still feel that he cheated regardless and not vote for him based on the evidence that they feel has already been established. Plus he didn't have the most charming personality so that works against him too.

I'm just happy that Rickey is going in this year and I can't wait to hear his induction speech!!


i am kewl with him unless he does another "i am the greatest of all-time" speech. :)

jppopma
01-10-2009, 03:03 PM
I would agree on turning the focus to already hall of famers. It seems like you will pay more for the hype on a future hall of famer than one who has already made it in and is not in the sportlight all the time. Just my thoughts.

Also, there is no such thing as a hal of famer anymore. I get tired of hearing about these players who have a good year, and everyone tryingt o say they are hall of fame material. Where are they (and their 25 cent rookie cards) all now? Depending on how things go with Bonds, he may not even be placed on the ballot (just like Pete Rose).

skyking26
01-10-2009, 03:43 PM
Griffey Jr, can't forget JUNIOR!

Out of the guys you mentioned without really looking at the stats I would say Chipper, Pudge and Thomas look like locks. I image Vlad will get in if he plays a few more years, and Thome will have the home run numbers to get in probably. Thome does not excite me as much, but that is just my opinion.
Thome has always done his thing under the radar, no fanfare and for lousy teams. He is a class act though on field and off, and no doubt in my mind he'll make it in eventually. Steroid free too.

godwulf
01-10-2009, 05:20 PM
I couldn't care less about Bonds' personality...and it's very true that his pre-1999, presumably pre-steroids record is impressive and definitely HOF caliber stuff...but, in my opinion, his very success in "breaking" the single-season HR record, and in "breaking" the career HR record, while using steroids, have been very, very bad for Baseball, and that's what I, were I a HOF voter, would find unforgiveable.

Am I suggesting that if he had just gone on having a great career, without aspiring to and succeeding in breaking those records, that I might be okay with his induction? I'm not completely sure - maybe I am.

Bondsgloves
01-10-2009, 08:25 PM
One last point: You cant compare Bonds to rose, What Rose did was against baseball rules. Baseball did not test for steroids and it wasn't against baseballs rules. Yes steroids were illegal, but what about all the other major leaguers using steroids, greenies, ADD med's, etc.. Your only kidding yourself if you think only Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, are HOF caliber players using steroids. None of them failed a drug test. You really think Manny, Ortiz, Thome, Randy Johnson, Arod, Pujols aren't using anything illegal. Do you really think Lance Armstrong wasn't using anything illegal? Its just the sign of the times. There is to much money in sports and these guys are doing whatever is needed to get an edge. Should Gaylord Perry be kicked out of the HOF for using vasaline? Look at all the players who were using crack in the early 80's, or corked bats. People just don't like Bonds. Compare him to his peers he is one of the best players ever. Arod is not even in his league. 7 MVPS and he wasn't even pitched to. If the pitchers had pitched to him in 2001 he would of easly hit 100 Hrs.

yanks12025
01-10-2009, 08:33 PM
It should be any day that Mlb gives Hank Aaron the homerun title back again. He deserves it, not a cheater like Bonds.

Rose did not cheat at playing the game, all he did was place bets. Bonds cheated by taking steroids so he could be better. Also i believe you mean Bonds aint on the same level as A-rod. A-rod will be the greatest player to have ever played the game(he also natural).

Bondsgloves
01-10-2009, 08:45 PM
How do you know Rose didn't cheat? There is proof he had used a cork bat and he hung around with steroid dealers. You really think Aaron will get the HR title back? Sure Arod is natural! Compare Arod's numbers to Bonds.
Arod has played in a loaded lineup his entire career, he saw nothing but good pitches. Bonds only saw 1 maybe to good pitches in at bat. Look at all the intentional walks. If Barry had the same protection and played in AL Arod wouldn't even touch the HR record. Arod will end his career with fewer MVP's, fewer stolen bases, and fewer gold gloves. Go ahead root for the Yankee's, try and buy another championship (that's what really wrong with baseball). Whoops I forgot how many yankee's were in the mitchell report! Do you really think all the names are out who used steroids?

Sure Aaron will get the record back?

And

Clemens Cy Youngs and records will be stripped!
The Patriots SuperBowls will be taken away!
Lance Armstrong will loose his tour de france victorys!
Holyfield will be stripped of all his Titles!

Yanks12025 - please wake up from your dream.

skyking26
01-10-2009, 08:51 PM
One last point: You cant compare Bonds to rose, What Rose did was against baseball rules. Baseball did not test for steroids and it wasn't against baseballs rules. Yes steroids were illegal, but what about all the other major leaguers using steroids, greenies, ADD med's, etc.. Your only kidding yourself if you think only Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, are HOF caliber players using steroids. None of them failed a drug test. You really think Manny, Ortiz, Thome, Randy Johnson, Arod, Pujols aren't using anything illegal. Do you really think Lance Armstrong wasn't using anything illegal? Its just the sign of the times. There is to much money in sports and these guys are doing whatever is needed to get an edge. Should Gaylord Perry be kicked out of the HOF for using vasaline? Look at all the players who were using crack in the early 80's, or corked bats. People just don't like Bonds. Compare him to his peers he is one of the best players ever. Arod is not even in his league. 7 MVPS and he wasn't even pitched to. If the pitchers had pitched to him in 2001 he would of easly hit 100 Hrs.
I may be kidding myself, but yes, I truely believe Thome never touched steroids... That is my belief.

skyking26
01-10-2009, 08:54 PM
I may be kidding myself, but yes, I truely believe Thome never touched steroids... That is my belief.
I also don't believe for a second that Kingman touched any form of illegal steroid - or any enhancing agent for that matter.

The guy was just freakishly strong, raw boned. Look at all of his cards start to finish. Natural maturity throughout and that is about it. As a rookie he briefly got himself into a 44. Most of his career saw him in a size 46, and on brief occasion he wore a 48 depending on manufacturer...

both-teams-played-hard
01-10-2009, 09:01 PM
i am kewl with him unless he does another "i am the greatest of all-time" speech. :)
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/266/rickey1si3.jpg
I think the "greatest of all time" speech is just that...the greatest of all-time. It's classic..."both teams played hard", "the ship be sinking" and "you play to win the game" type stuff. The motto of Hollywood should be the same as everywhere else: if you don't think you're the greatest, then no one else will.
Humility is painfully boring.

ndevlin
01-10-2009, 09:38 PM
I also don't believe for a second that Kingman touched any form of illegal steroid - or any enhancing agent for that matter.

The guy was just freakishly strong, raw boned. Look at all of his cards start to finish. Natural maturity throughout and that is about it. As a rookie he briefly got himself into a 44. Most of his career saw him in a size 46, and on brief occasion he wore a 48 depending on manufacturer...


For sure. There is a big difference between naturally strong and getting all bulky off drugs. You used an example of Kingman, I'll use one of Kluszewski, a flat out beast.

Then you have players like Sosa, Pudge, and Juan gone. Ever notice how small Sosa, Pudge and Juan used to be. Pudge was small with Texas, then magically bulked up big time, and is now small again!?!

Then again, I guess Pudge, JuanGone, and Palmeiro were all teammates of Canseco at one time also.

http://reds.enquirer.com/img/photos/1998/07/071798klubellpost_550x485.jpg

http://www.crosley-field.com/grob/images/Klu1956t.jpg


http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/53215225.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939847EC77F5F8D1CE235DBFAF41F6868B 4E9C89C783688B46

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/225448.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934A2752006EF5F0ED46C1E9F3C4AB3ADB

frikativ54
01-10-2009, 09:43 PM
The only things in my collection that relate to a "lock" future HOF member, are my Randy Johnson items - six bats and a fielder's glove. I admire guys like Pudge and Chipper, but don't have any strong desire to collect their stuff. A good portion of my collection consists of items (mostly bats and some jerseys) from guys who've only been in the Majors for a few years, so only time will tell. Brandon Webb? Carlos Quentin? I'd sure like to think so; ask me again in ten years.

Since somebody brought up Bonds, I sense that the concensus here is pretty much that he will only ever see the Hall as a visitor...whereas on most forums, predictions are a bit more mixed. Does anyone still think that there's a good chance (or any chance at all) that Bonds could ever be voted in?

Pete Rose is a shoe-in before Bonds ever gets in. About your collecting - does collecting stuff of sure-fire HOFers really excite you? I am genuinely curious; what motivates you to choose potential HOFers over anybody else?

joelsabi
01-10-2009, 10:01 PM
How do you know Rose didn't cheat? There is proof he had used a cork bat and he hung around with steroid dealers. You really think Aaron will get the HR title back? Sure Arod is natural! Compare Arod's numbers to Bonds.
Arod has played in a loaded lineup his entire career, he saw nothing but good pitches. Bonds only saw 1 maybe to good pitches in at bat. Look at all the intentional walks. If Barry had the same protection and played in AL Arod wouldn't even touch the HR record. Arod will end his career with fewer MVP's, fewer stolen bases, and fewer gold gloves. Go ahead root for the Yankee's, try and buy another championship (that's what really wrong with baseball). Whoops I forgot how many yankee's were in the mitchell report! Do you really think all the names are out who used steroids?

Sure Aaron will get the record back?

And

Clemens Cy Youngs and records will be stripped!
The Patriots SuperBowls will be taken away!
Lance Armstrong will loose his tour de france victorys!
Holyfield will be stripped of all his Titles!

Yanks12025 - please wake up from your dream.



Ruth had the most HR in his career in a single season (60 HR) at 32 years of age
Aaron had his second best year (59 HR) at age 26, 1 HR less


Aaron had the most HR in his career in a single season (47 HR) at 37 years of age
Aaron had his second best year (45 HR) at age 28, 2 HR less


Bonds had the most HR in his career in a single season (73 HR) at 36 years of age.
Bonds had his seond best year (46) at 37 years of age, 27 HR less (Not had 46 HR at age 28 butless games than at age 28)


ARod had the most HR in his career in a single season (57 HR) at 26 years of age.
ARod had his second best year (54) at age 31, 3 HR less



Age 25-29 are considered peak years for mlb players:

joelsabi
01-10-2009, 10:11 PM
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/266/rickey1si3.jpg
I think the "greatest of all time" speech is just that...the greatest of all-time. It's classic..."both teams played hard", "the ship be sinking" and "you play to win the game" type stuff. The motto of Hollywood should be the same as everywhere else: if you don't think you're the greatest, then no one else will.
Humility is painfully boring.

i actually like his attitude but he got some backlash from disrespecting lou brock that day he broke the all-time steals record.

I take Ripken's humility over Henderson's bravado each time.

godwulf
01-11-2009, 02:48 AM
Pete Rose is a shoe-in before Bonds ever gets in. About your collecting - does collecting stuff of sure-fire HOFers really excite you? I am genuinely curious; what motivates you to choose potential HOFers over anybody else?

It doesn't, actually. If I were collecting as an investment, I'd probably be more likely to care about a player's HOF potential - but I'm not, so I don't. As much as I admire somebody like Cal Ripken, Tony Gwynn, or Mike Schmidt, if somebody gave me one of their bats, I'd probably sell it and use the money to buy DBacks stuff. For that matter, if I had a Babe Ruth bat, I'd probably do the same thing. The only reason I have a Robin Yount bat - Yikes! I just had a senior moment and had to think for about two minutes to remember the man's name. Scary. - is because it's a fungo he used when he was a DBacks' coach.