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STLWSB
04-07-2006, 05:32 PM
This glove is on ebay and the LOA states that Peralta used it during the entire 2005 season. I checked out Getty images and cannot find a photo of him using it once, during any season. ESM might be able to get by with this if they said he used it for some of the season but not the entire season, I wonder if this is a case of the athlete making a mistake or ESM, I dont know if Peralta would sign a LOA before the type was added. Here is the EBAY link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8792280199&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Russell

suave1477
04-07-2006, 07:56 PM
I found one pic on Getty of him using a Black Glove that was in 2004 and I dont know if its this one.

Eric
04-07-2006, 11:18 PM
What did ESM say when you emailed them about this?
Eric

STLWSB
04-08-2006, 02:10 AM
I never e-mailed them, is that a rule I have to do to post something? I am not claiming it is not real, but it certainly was not used throughout the entire 2005 season.
Russell
zepplin_1@msn.com

allstarsplus
04-08-2006, 08:33 AM
It is the COA that said that Jhonny used the glove the entire season. In the auction description it states, "Peralta used this fielders glove during the 2005 season" and the auction description does somewhat contradict the LOA portion of "entire season". Hopefully ESM will follow-up with a clarification as an error appears to have been made on the LOA.

I don't know if this is the case here, but this happens from time-to-time with these date specific items that can later be photomatched and proved questionable. Before you travel to meet the player to pick up his gear he wants to sell, you get his inventory list. You create the LOA's in advance, and you meet the player and sign everything. They you take everything back to your shop to see what you really have.

In this case Jhonny attest's to the glove worn the entire season on the LOA, and shares in part of the blame. On the LOA, the word "entire" should be changed.

I will email this link to ESM also.

Eric
04-08-2006, 08:51 AM
I never e-mailed them, is that a rule I have to do to post something? I am not claiming it is not real, but it certainly was not used throughout the entire 2005 season.
Russell
zepplin_1@msn.com

It is a rule if you're are posting about something being questionable. I changed the title of your thread from your original "Questionable ESM item on ebay" to read "Question about ESM item on ebay" which is more on target with what you're asking. It might seem like a subtle difference, but it's an important thing to recognize. It's fair to ask questions about something, it's unfair to call something questionable if you haven't contacted the seller with your questions.

FYI if you are going to call something fake or even questionable, please see
Rule #16
In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, it is expected that the poster clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, it is expected that the poster questioning an item will attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item.

STLWSB
04-08-2006, 03:57 PM
Sorry about not e-mailing ESM first, today they wrote me this e-mail, I also asked them another question but will wait 24 hours for a response to post it. From what I make out of this, Peralta is to blame for the entire 2005 season statement on the LOA, however I think that ESM has responsibility for the items they sell. I stand by my statement that this is not used during the entire 2005 season as suggested on the LOA.



----- Original Message -----
From: ASISports@aol.com (ASISports@aol.com)
To: zepplin_1@msn.com (zepplin_1@msn.com)
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 6:25 AM
Subject: Glove


Dear Sir,

We would never write anything on a LOA that is not exactly stated to us by the athlete.

The way Peralta described the glove is the way we wrote it in the LOA.

We also would appreciate you contacting us before you make a negative comment about us or our product.

We go extra lengths to make sure the consumer gets legitimate items ie., LOA, getting game used insciption, and having photographer at signing to shoot

each item on LOA.

Thank You

ESM President

Scot Monette

Eric
04-08-2006, 06:54 PM
Thanks for contacting the seller. It's the best and most responsible way for things to work around here.
Eric

astros*bats
04-08-2006, 10:09 PM
ESM has ALWAYS had questionable items in my mind. Most important is the inscriptions on some of their bats. They have a Ricky Gutierrez game used Houston Astros bat on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ricky-Gutierrez-Signed-Game-Used-1999-NLCS-Bat-ESM_W0QQitemZ8792661203QQcategoryZ60596QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

The bat is stated to have been used in the 1999 NLCS by Ricky and is even signed with the insription, " Game Used 1999 NLCS vs. Atlanta".

The problem is that the Astros WERE NOT in the NLCS in 1999. They played the Braves during the NLDS that year, and were swept out of the playoffs in 3 games.

You expect me to believe that Ricky forgot that he didn't play in the NLCS that year. Give me a break!

Eric
04-08-2006, 10:16 PM
What was the response when you pointed this out to ESM? (FYI- Small point, but they actually lost the NLDS 3 games to 1) You have a valid question- it should just be posed to them first.
Eric

astros*bats
04-08-2006, 11:23 PM
Eric-

You are right. The Astros took game one and THEN were swept out of the NLDS. Coincidentally, I have not recieved a response from ESM.

suave1477
04-09-2006, 01:02 AM
Ok let me ask you this Astros? I am not saying your wrong but dont you think its possible that the player made a mistake ( not to say he forgot ) but when your signing a bunch of items over and over sometimes your mind plays tricks on you and maybe by accident he put the letter "C" by accident and meant to put the letter "D"

Your looking at it as the player writing NLCS like he played that game and maybe the player thought he was writing that and by accident wrote N L "D" S

astros*bats
04-09-2006, 03:16 PM
Suave-

I do think it is possible that maybe Ricky wrote the wrong letter but I really doubt it. I don't think that Ricky ever played in an NLCS his whole career, and I know he never did as an Astro. So I find it hard to think that Ricky would sign a bat with NLCS. Regardless, the bat is now inked up stating that it was used in the NLCS when it never was.

Hockystik
04-09-2006, 10:43 PM
"We go extra lengths to make sure the consumer gets legitimate items ie., LOA, getting game used insciption, and having photographer at signing to shoot each item on LOA."


I think if they went the extra length, this item would not be in question. They are taking the word from the player that the item is used instead of researching it to make sure it is. Who cares if the signing is photographed?

Mark

suave1477
04-10-2006, 08:37 AM
Well I care if the signing is photographed it reassures me that the player actually signed it and not some ones grandmother with good pemanship pretending to be Mark McGwire!!!!

trsent
04-10-2006, 10:45 AM
I do think it is possible that maybe Ricky wrote the wrong letter but I really doubt it. I don't think that Ricky ever played in an NLCS his whole career, and I know he never did as an Astro. So I find it hard to think that Ricky would sign a bat with NLCS. Regardless, the bat is now inked up stating that it was used in the NLCS when it never was.

You are correct, Ricky played in three NL Divisional Series in his career - 1997, 1998 and 1999 - All losing contests. 4-28 (.143), 1 run scored, no extra base hits and 7 walks. A .333 on base average in the post season is his only positive stat. Oh yeah, he did have one stolen base.

What I believe you are missing is that Ricky Gutierrez may not care or know the difference from NLCS and NLDS when stating an item to be game used. I would assume that many players do not know the alphabet soup of postseason baseball.

allstarsplus
04-10-2006, 06:42 PM
What I believe you are missing is that Ricky Gutierrez may not care or know the difference from NLCS and NLDS when stating an item to be game used. I would assume that many players do not know the alphabet soup of postseason baseball.

Joel - I agree with your statement, and as always, honest mistakes happen. I do understand what some of the posts are saying that the sellers need to also do some research.

Is this Ricky Gutierrez a premium bat??? It is currently at $20.50 so it doesn't look like it has even eclipsed the cost of the lumber.

trsent
04-10-2006, 06:47 PM
I personally dropped out of the bidding at $7.50.

obeyone10
04-12-2006, 10:27 PM
Why does ESM and ASI never have a picture of the LOAs being signed once the information is posted in the actual LOA? Thats because they have the players sign blank LOAs and they fill in the middle however they want.
The players don't know what the heck they're writing in the middle. They could put in anything!! This is absolute forgery and fraud, moreover, they are misrepresenting the players.
Want to know how I know this? I'll email you my W2 while I worked for ASI. They have blank letters signed by numerous players.
Bryan Oberle
obeyone10@aol.com

suave1477
04-12-2006, 10:51 PM
Obeyone I am not disagreeing with you but please explain this is that is the case and the players have no idea what they are agreeing too, then why would a player specify exactly what is written on the game used item?

Example LOA - Ruben Sierra signed game used bat Yankees 2005

Game Used bat - Autographed + inscription from the player - Game Used 2005

ChrisCavalier
04-13-2006, 12:10 PM
Why does ESM and ASI never have a picture of the LOAs being signed once the information is posted in the actual LOA? Thats because they have the players sign blank LOAs and they fill in the middle however they want.
The players don't know what the heck they're writing in the middle. They could put in anything!! This is absolute forgery and fraud, moreover, they are misrepresenting the players.
Want to know how I know this? I'll email you my W2 while I worked for ASI. They have blank letters signed by numerous players.
Bryan Oberle
obeyone10@aol.com
Hello Bryan,

Let me begin by saying the accusations you posted above are very serious indeed. As such, I wanted to make sure you, and other forum members, are aware of the forum's policies that are listed on this site under "Disclaimer and Responsibilities". They are as follows:

The views and opinions stated in the postings do not necessarily represent those of Game Used Universe, Inc. and GameUsedForum.com, Inc.

The views and opinions expressed in postings are the responsibility of the posters and not of Game Used Universe, Inc. and GameUsedForum.com, Inc.

Game Used Universe, Inc. and GameUsedForum.com, Inc. will not be held accountable for slanderous comments posted by others. Messages published on this website are the full and complete responsibility of the author.

All website users agree to these rules.

Here is a link to the "Disclaimer and Responsibilities" as posted on the site:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=100

As such, given the severity of your claims, I want to make sure you are aware of your responsibilities as a member of this site. While I have absolutely no knowledge or opinion regarding your claims, I just want to make sure you understand the magnitude of your accusations.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

skipcareyisfat
04-13-2006, 02:23 PM
Brian,
Are you the same guy who posted something similar a few months ago? Those comments were deleted almost as soon as they went up, but the accusations were pretty wild as well, as I recall.

trsent
04-13-2006, 03:40 PM
Why does ESM and ASI never have a picture of the LOAs being signed once the information is posted in the actual LOA? Thats because they have the players sign blank LOAs and they fill in the middle however they want.
The players don't know what the heck they're writing in the middle. They could put in anything!! This is absolute forgery and fraud, moreover, they are misrepresenting the players.
Want to know how I know this? I'll email you my W2 while I worked for ASI. They have blank letters signed by numerous players.
Bryan Oberle
obeyone10@aol.com

Bryan, I understand your concern, but this practice is not new in the industry. I have seen in the past many times a player will leave LOAs blank for a dealer to fill in the item(s) at a later time. If a player autographs 50 baseballs, 20 jerseys and some other items, then sign blank LOAs for the items for the dealer to later fill in the item it is not "forgery and fraud" unless the dealer in question abuses the LOAs.

ChrisCavalier
04-13-2006, 05:52 PM
Bryan, I understand your concern, but this practice is not new in the industry. I have seen in the past many times a player will leave LOAs blank for a dealer to fill in the item(s) at a later time. If a player autographs 50 baseballs, 20 jerseys and some other items, then sign blank LOAs for the items for the dealer to later fill in the item it is not "forgery and fraud" unless the dealer in question abuses the LOAs.
Hello Bryan,

Joel brings up a great point here that I believe needs to be addressed further. That is, your post claims that ASI has players sign uncompleted LOAs. While that may be true (I personally have no idea how ASI does their certs), it does not prove that, as you put it, "This is absolute forgery and fraud, moreover, they are misrepresenting the players." As Joel has pointed out, it is apparently not unprecedented for players to sign uncompleted LOAS which are filled in later. That in an of itself is not proof of forgery or deception.

I have discussed this with Eric and unless you are able to provide proof of fraudulent activity, your post will need to be deleted. In addition, please keep in mind the site's "Disclaimer and Responsibilities" posted earlier on this thread.

While I have absolutely no personal interest in this situation, I have to say I think it would be inappropriate to assume any type of wrongdoing has occurred based on what has been presented thus far in this thread.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

allstarsplus
04-13-2006, 10:18 PM
Bryan, I understand your concern, but this practice is not new in the industry. I have seen in the past many times a player will leave LOAs blank for a dealer to fill in the item(s) at a later time. If a player autographs 50 baseballs, 20 jerseys and some other items, then sign blank LOAs for the items for the dealer to later fill in the item it is not "forgery and fraud" unless the dealer in question abuses the LOAs.

I would expect that there is some work done on the COA after the fact as pictures of the signing would be added to the COA.

ESM is one of the few companies that do athlete signed COAs and I would hate for them to stop doing the athlete signed letters.

With that said, Joel is right on point with his statement.

ham1963
04-13-2006, 10:30 PM
I have been reading this thread and it has been very intresting. I think if a person is intreseted in buying a jeresy and it does not matter who it is from a person should do thier homework to find out if the jersey is not a fake. If a person does thier homework what is the need of a COA or a LOA
:cool: