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View Full Version : Buyer Beware: Sticky Residue and Use Added to Bagwell Bat



frikativ54
01-09-2009, 07:28 PM
In mid-December, I had my eye on a Jeff Bagwell game-model SAM bat on eBay. Bagwell SAM bats are very rare, and to even find a game-model bat is truly an exciting experience. I would have jumped on the eBay auction, but for a $500 final payment I made on another Bagwell item. Game Used Forum member and eGameUsed.com dealer Chris Boyd won the bat for $177.50. Here is the auction in question:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=160303818119.

At the time, I congratulated Chris on his find, and he responded that he couldn't "beat the price".

Story over, right?

Yesterday I was surfing the net, when I find a listing for a "Game Used" Bagwell SAM bat on Boyd's site. Here is Chris's website as it appeared last night:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j16/frikativ54/JBagwellGameUsed2.jpg

After seeing the SAM bat listed on eGameUsed.com, I immediately became suspicious. Since Bagwell SAM bats are so rare, could this possibly be the game-model bat that appeared on eBay last month? I emailed Chris Boyd and asked him if the two bats were one and the same. He replied in the affirmative. When I questioned him on the discrepancy between the game-model description and the game-used description on his site, there was no response.

It was only after I asked him for pictures of the bat, that Chris described the use and gave me photographs. The use was as follows:

"The Sam bat does have a a few signs of light use, including a couple of ball marks, and some slight tacky tar around the center brand. It dates to 2003. It looks like the bat he is using on the cover of the Astros program from his jersey retirement game." -Chris Boyd

Below you will find the photographs:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j16/frikativ54/JBagwellUnused.jpg
Original Un-Used Bat

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j16/frikativ54/StickyResidue.jpg
Supposedly Game-Used Bat (Bottom of Two)

Although I can't tell for sure because of the opacity of the first scan, there appears to be no sticky substance present. Since I couldn't be sure about my suspicians, I decided to contact the original seller. Perhaps he listed it as game-model because he couldn't 100% verify the source of the bat. Or maybe he was a novice and just didn't see the use. The original seller's response speaks volumes:

"I sold the bat in new condition. It was not game used with any marks or residue on it, so any changes made to the bat were done so after his purchase from me."

While I try to give people I buy from the benefit of the doubt, I cannot help but believe that this bat was altered to turn a profit. The more the bat resembles that on the cover of the Bagwell jersey retirement game program, the more attractive it would be to Chris Boyd's audience. I gave Chris a chance to respond to the discrepancy in the descriptions, but I heard nothing. Since I didn't hear back from Chris until I asked for the scans, I thought I would leave it up to Game Used Forum readers to decide who is right in this case.

All that notwithstanding, I have done a number of transactions wtih Chris Boyd. I bought a pair of Bagwell cleats, $1000 batting gloves, a jersey I later found out that he made a $1700 profit on, and game-used wristbands. If Chris is altering bats, what is to prevent him from contriving use on my jersey? Or on the cleats that are the centerpiece of my collection? If I am wrong about this situation, then I am truly sorry. But given that Chris has been accused of altering bats on this forum before, I cannot help but conclude that this is merely another case of a dealer altering an item to turn a profit.

For those of you who are game-used experts, do I have any recourse for the purchases I made, if the seller has been found to sell contrived goods? Maybe someone here could give me some advice.

Thanks for reading!

-Frik

Rboitano
01-09-2009, 07:36 PM
This is not the first time it has been brought up. There was a Pujols bat a few years ago that was doctored.

Rboitano
01-09-2009, 07:44 PM
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1447&page=4

zookerman182
01-09-2009, 07:51 PM
I have dealt with Boyd one time and it didnt go too smoothly.

It took him 6 weeks to ship a bat i paid $1500 for.......which was already $500 more than i hoped to pay for the bat.

My theory is. If my customer is going to pay for anything, let alone a $1500 bat, they need to get the product quickly.

I didnt have much of a problem paying the extra 50% for the bat since it was one i really wanted, that isnt really the issue. The month and a half with no responses and no bat was what scared me just a little.

In the end i did get the bat, it just took forever.

I hope the doctoring thing isnt true. If it is, then thats a shame.

kingjammy24
01-09-2009, 07:54 PM
this one was a classic:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=10353

chris bought a bat with no tar on ebay and claims that when he received the bat it had tar.

back when i made my first million, i couldn't find comedy this good.

rudy.

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 08:30 PM
One more note: I bought a Bagwell Jersey last year from Chris. When I asked him about his source, he told me it was from "a friend of Jeff's from California." He also told me that $2500-3500 is fair price for a Bagwell shirt, and that another guy's Bagwell jersey on eBay was fake and was too low for a legit Bagwell gamer. Well, turns out, last summer I get an email from the supposed Californian friend, and he lives in Colorado and doesn't know Jeff personally. Plus Boyd's mystery source offers me a jersey at a price that was lower than the fake on eBay.

He even shows me pics of my jersey, before he sold it to Chris. Boyd also charged me more for my jersey because he said this one had a perfect signature. After I commit to buying it, he tells me that he wants his other 2003 pinstripe signed in thinner pen, so it doesn't get faded. Although this raises questions in my mind, it wasn't till I got the jersey that I realized that the jersey I bought with the thicker pen had faded. So - I basically got ripped off for $3275 and have no recourse. This is not to mention the fact that I found out that the batting gloves he sold me for $1000 regularly go for $250-300 in the Houston area.

Guess I had to learn a lesson the hard way.

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 08:32 PM
That should read...the jersey with the thicker pen's signature had faded. Not the jersey itself.

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 08:35 PM
Frik,

Good news is you are incorrect! However, I did make a mistake in my e-mail regarding which bat I was describing. I was referring to the Easton bat you also asked for pictures of. The part of my e-mail where I describe the Sam bat as having no use was cut out, likely from my blackberry I sent the e-mail from. If you study all the pictures I sent, you will see there is not a bit of tar or use on the Sam bat. Here are pictures:

17340

17341

17342

17343

17344

17345

The bat is exactly as received from the seller and not altered! Does anyone see any signs of use on the Sam bat? Does everyone see the light sticky pine tar around the centerbrand of the Easton?

In terms of prices you have paid for items in the past, I can't help what you have paid. Did I make you buy it? No! Did you beg me to sell them to you after I saif they wern't for sale? Yes! Did you agree to the price? Yes. Did I let you pay off both items over many months? Yes! Are you bitter because I won't sell you the Daryle Kile tribute cleats? Yes! Will you ever get a pair now? NO!

I will accept your apology via e-mail! Next time I would ask that you confirm any doubt or confusion you have via personal e-mail. This all could have been avoided!

b.heagy
01-09-2009, 08:52 PM
The ad that Frik has supplied has "Shows light use" in the description. You stated it has no use. Is the description in the ad wrong as well?

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 08:53 PM
Frik,

In terms of prices you have paid for items in the past, I can't help what you have paid. Did I make you buy it? No! Did you beg me to sell them to you after I saif they wern't for sale? Yes! Did you agree to the price? Yes. Did I let you pay off both items over many months? Yes! Are you bitter because I won't sell you the Daryle Kile tribute cleats? Yes! Will you ever get a pair now? NO!

I will accept your apology via e-mail! Next time I would ask that you confirm any doubt or confusion you have via personal e-mail. This all could have been avoided!

I need to apologize for the fact you sent me misleading emails? Read the description on your website that says it's a game-used bat. Give me a break! Describe your own items correctly and you will avoid problems in the first place. If you wouldn't have lied to me about your sources and the prices, then I never would have bought from you in the first place. Lie and pout all you want - you've lost my business.

If you think I am the only one with problems with you, get real! You should read the emails I get about you from other sellers. I talked to Denny Esken yesterday, and he doesn't think very highly of your business practices. The guy who sold you the Biggio bat on your homepage thinks you are a "lousy human being". People off the forum dislike your business practices, and I have the emails and sources to back it up.

And what's this joke about never going to get the cleats I desire? You don't control the market. I have items that you won't own. Wake up, Chris, I don't see any 1/1 lineup cards in your collection. I don't think you have any Bagwell game-ready gloves, or anything of that sort. I have rare baseball cards you don't own.

And I love your constant jokes about a million dollars. That's not a lot of money in this world. I live in one of the wealthiest cities in Washington State, and I know the kids of top business executives. My family and those around me earn our fortunes ethically, and we have a lot more than you have. So - don't try this crap about how much money you have.

You can't take money or game-used items into the grave with you, Chris. When you're gone it's all about your reputation and what you do in the world. You should really rethink your priorities.

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 08:59 PM
It seems like you have had problems with other people in the past, Chris.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/404/RipOff0404196.htm

And BTW, if you don't refund the jersey with the faded auto and the non-existing source, I will take you to the Better Business Bureau.

chakes89
01-09-2009, 09:06 PM
How are you able to tell if a "sticky residue" is "added" to anything just by looking at pictures?

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 09:16 PM
The ad that Frik has supplied has "Shows light use" in the description. You stated it has no use. Is the description in the ad wrong as well?

That email was never sent from any Blackberry - I just checked my records. What a tangled web we weave, Chris, when we first practice to deceive.

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 09:21 PM
Frik,

You need to make sure you tell the whole story! I own three 2003 Bagwell Home Pinstripe jerseys. We agreed to an unsigned jersey (I still own by the way). I offered to get it signed for you at a Bagwell signing. I purchased the jersey from Leland's along with a Bagwell jersey. Because you were striving for "the Best Bagwell" available I offered you a jersey from a source in California, but I later decided to hold that one as it came with provenance and a picture of Bagwell handing the jersey to the person. I then offered you another jersey with a "thick" autograph. I gave you two options and gave you the choice. You chose the one you ended up with. I did tell you I preferred the thinner autographed jersey as it matched my Biggio and Berkman 2003 jerseys. Strange how neglect to mention that!

I am not sure why the autograph faded, but if it did it is due to mishandling. I give a 7 day retrun policy on all items sold.

In regard to my website, as many people know, I had not updated my site in over 1 year. I have been experimenting with a total revamp. I deleted a lot of items that were no longer for sale. In my opinion, the Sam bat does have "light use." Bagwell had prepared the bat for use with his #5 on the knob and there are bat rack marks. I see nothing wrong with the description.

flaco1801
01-09-2009, 09:24 PM
REMARKABLE the man buys a brand new bat on ebay and has the nerve to sell it on his website for that much of a profit,hoping people will believe it came from his astros sources..... throw this guy off the site it just reeks of dishonesty.... i see this is not the first time items have been altered.... i hope this is grounds for dismissal or is im sorry enough so this can happen a third time?

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 09:27 PM
That email was never sent from any Blackberry - I just checked my records. What a tangled web we weave, Chris, when we first practice to deceive.

What??? Your records? I was sitting at a bar last night when I typed the e-mail. What do I have to do to prove myself. Take pictures of my blackberry with the e-mail on it?

zookerman182
01-09-2009, 09:29 PM
Frik,

You need to make sure you tell the whole story! I own three 2003 Bagwell Home Pinstripe jerseys. We agreed to an unsigned jersey (I still own by the way). I offered to get it signed for you at a Bagwell signing. I purchased the jersey from Leland's along with a Bagwell jersey. Because you were striving for "the Best Bagwell" available I offered you a jersey from a source in California, but I later decided to hold that one as it came with provenance and a picture of Bagwell handing the jersey to the person. I then offered you another jersey with a "thick" autograph. I gave you two options and gave you the choice. You chose the one you ended up with. I did tell you I preferred the thinner autographed jersey as it matched my Biggio and Berkman 2003 jerseys. Strange how neglect to mention that!

I am not sure why the autograph faded, but if it did it is due to mishandling. I give a 7 day retrun policy on all items sold.

In regard to my website, as many people know, I had not updated my site in over 1 year. I have been experimenting with a total revamp. I deleted a lot of items that were no longer for sale. In my opinion, the Sam bat does have "light use." Bagwell had prepared the bat for use with his #5 on the knob and there are bat rack marks. I see nothing wrong with the description.


Light use means it has some sort of ball mark. Wether it be a white skuff, lace impressions, blue ink. Bat rack marks come on many bats that hit the market and never reach the playing field. I would describe the Bagwell bat as game issued or game ready. What exactly did Bagwell "use" the bat for? This is why there are so many unhappy collectors and fakes out there, because people give shady descriptions that dont match the product to make the extra bucks.

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 09:29 PM
The ad that Frik has supplied has "Shows light use" in the description. You stated it has no use. Is the description in the ad wrong as well?

Bill,

The bat only exhibits bat rack marks and has a couple of scuffs at the end. I purchased the bat from Scott Brosius off eBay.

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 09:29 PM
Frik,

You need to make sure you tell the whole story! I own three 2003 Bagwell Home Pinstripe jerseys. We agreed to an unsigned jersey (I still own by the way). I offered to get it signed for you at a Bagwell signing. I purchased the jersey from Leland's along with a Bagwell jersey. Because you were striving for "the Best Bagwell" available I offered you a jersey from a source in California, but I later decided to hold that one as it came with provenance and a picture of Bagwell handing the jersey to the person. I then offered you another jersey with a "thick" autograph. I gave you two options and gave you the choice. You chose the one you ended up with. I did tell you I preferred the thinner autographed jersey as it matched my Biggio and Berkman 2003 jerseys. Strange how neglect to mention that!

I am not sure why the autograph faded, but if it did it is due to mishandling. I give a 7 day retrun policy on all items sold.

In regard to my website, as many people know, I had not updated my site in over 1 year. I have been experimenting with a total revamp. I deleted a lot of items that were no longer for sale. In my opinion, the Sam bat does have "light use." Bagwell had prepared the bat for use with his #5 on the knob and there are bat rack marks. I see nothing wrong with the description.

You never offered three jerseys. I only knew of two. And the thicker auto was supposed to be the best. It was only after I decided to buy the jerseys that you told me that it came from a friend of Jeff's in California. I know nothing of the supposed other jersey.

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 09:31 PM
He also told me that he only had one more jersey in his possession that was a 2003 gamer. Now there are two??? Something just doesn't add up here.

chakes89
01-09-2009, 09:33 PM
Sounds like someone is on some kind of personal vendetta

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 09:34 PM
What??? Your records? I was sitting at a bar last night when I typed the e-mail. What do I have to do to prove myself. Take pictures of my blackberry with the e-mail on it?

You emailed me originally from the Blackberry. It was only when you described the Bagwell as having use that you sent me the pictures. And that was at 10 pm later that night. That is, 12:00 am later your time. There was no cutting and pasting error.

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 09:34 PM
Light use means it has some sort of ball mark. Wether it be a white skuff, lace impressions, blue ink. Bat rack marks come on many bats that hit the market and never reach the playing field. I would describe the Bagwell bat as game issued or game ready. What exactly did Bagwell "use" the bat for? This is why there are so many unhappy collectors and fakes out there, because people give shady descriptions that dont match the product to make the extra bucks.

Zookerman,

There are only signs of bat rack marks and a couple of scuff at the end of the bat, also likely from the bat rack or maybe even the box the bat came in. I received the bat directly from Scott Brosius off of eBay as it is today. The bat has Jeff's #5 on the knob sticker.

I did nothing wrong here. Frik posts only part of my e-mail. I gave her the benefit of the doubt ands assumed she didn't get the whole thing. She could have easily clarified with me. It is plain as day on my sent e-mail. But, no one will believe me, so why argue. Frik asked about both the Sam bat and another bat I offered. The one that has the light sticky tar and ball mark is the top bat pictured. I go on in my e-mail to state that the sam bat has no use, but is like the one pictured on the cover of the Astros Bagwell retirement program, which I assumed she has seen as a point of reference!

cigarman44
01-09-2009, 09:34 PM
Frik,

Good news is you are incorrect! However, I did make a mistake in my e-mail regarding which bat I was describing.

Seems like one "mistake" too many for my taste. I'll remind myself not to make the "mistake" of purchasing anything from you.

b.heagy
01-09-2009, 09:35 PM
Light use means it has some sort of ball mark. Wether it be a white skuff, lace impressions, blue ink. Bat rack marks come on many bats that hit the market and never reach the playing field. I would describe the Bagwell bat as game issued or game ready. What exactly did Bagwell "use" the bat for? This is why there are so many unhappy collectors and fakes out there, because people give shady descriptions that dont match the product to make the extra bucks.

I agree with the above, game ready would be a better description, regardless of the source. What is the going rate for a solid game used Bagwell bat anyway?

chakes89
01-09-2009, 09:37 PM
Can't be too much

He was nothing special and he has not shot at the HOF

He didn't get 500 HR, He didn't get 3,000 Hits, He didn't win a World Series

He wasn't even the best player on his team during his tenure, Craig Biggio was

chakes89
01-09-2009, 09:38 PM
Can't be too much

He was nothing special and he has no shot at the HOF

He didn't get 500 HR, He didn't get 3,000 Hits, He didn't win a World Series

He wasn't even the best player on his team during his tenure, Craig Biggio was

Typo

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 09:42 PM
You emailed me originally from the Blackberry. It was only when you described the Bagwell as having use that you sent me the pictures. And that was at 10 pm later that night. That is, 12:00 am later your time. There was no cutting and pasting error.

Frik,

Why don't we take this little battle off this forum. The bat with the use was the "OTHER" one, the Easton Stix bat that you requested pictures of. So . . . you are confused and I have to take all this heat.

How about this, I will give you the stupid Sam bat. Free of charge. Is that what you want. Or, are you still upset that I wouldn't sell you the hard protective shell, or the gold/black turf cleats, or the red/black Kile tribute cleats. You offered me $1200 for a pair of cleats I told you I paid $300 for!!!!!!!!! I still refused! I am out for money, then I sell them. I am a collector and have been so for over 20 years. I am not going to let you take me down just because you are bitter! You build your collection over 20 years and then you can come after people!

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 09:44 PM
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j16/frikativ54/Proof.jpg
Here is the email that Chris sent. I don't know how to be more clear.

sayhey24
01-09-2009, 09:46 PM
I too had a problem with Chris and a bat he agreed to buy from me last year -- this thread explains a lot.

Greg

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 09:48 PM
He also told me that he only had one more jersey in his possession that was a 2003 gamer. Now there are two??? Something just doesn't add up here.

Frik,

I don't have to disclose any and all items to you! I can lie about what I have, I can hype up my items, I can change my mind, I can choose to sell, I can choose to make as much profit as I want! You can disagree all day long and tell me I am wrong, but I cna still do what I want.

Does it make you feel better if I show you and tell you everything I own! Fine! So I won't be accused of lying about something else! Here you go! Do you want me to post pics of the 18 Bagwell bats too? If not, you might not believe me! What else do you want to see? Do you want me to disclose price of every item or who I bought it from, the date, how I paid, etc.

17361

17362

chakes89
01-09-2009, 09:51 PM
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j16/frikativ54/Proof.jpg
Here is the email that Chris sent. I don't know how to be more clear.

Isn't posting a private convo a bootable offense on here?

I say get out the boot

We don't need bitter trouble makers on here

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 09:51 PM
The Bagwell jersey retirement program clearly shows Jeff Bagewll with a SAM bat resting on his shoulder.

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 09:53 PM
Isn't posting a private convo a bootable offense on here?

I say get out the boot

We don't need bitter trouble makers on here

Yeah, I am a trouble maker, for proving that someone is lying. :rolleyes: I just want collectors to know before people doctor bats. And I posted this not out of bitterness, but out of a serious concern for other Bagwell collectors. I want people to be ethical.

It's not about how much stuff you have...it's about what kind of a person you are.

sarahsdad
01-09-2009, 09:59 PM
Chris:
You have a self admitted history of bat doctoring (Pujols) why should you be given the benefit of the doubt? You did it at least once before with no repercussions. What would make you stop?
sarahsdad

yanks12025
01-09-2009, 10:02 PM
I hate when people even add the smallest amount of pine tar to a bat. Whats with adding new tar its not like the player ever touched it or something.

And i think it is fine that frikativ54 posted the emails, because he is looking out for us. And with eGameUsed past history of selling fake/altered bats i believe he was trying pull a quick one with the description and all.

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 10:06 PM
Frik,

Why don't we take this little battle off this forum. The bat with the use was the "OTHER" one, the Easton Stix bat that you requested pictures of. So . . . you are confused and I have to take all this heat.

How about this, I will give you the stupid Sam bat. Free of charge. Is that what you want. Or, are you still upset that I wouldn't sell you the hard protective shell, or the gold/black turf cleats, or the red/black Kile tribute cleats. You offered me $1200 for a pair of cleats I told you I paid $300 for!!!!!!!!! I still refused! I am out for money, then I sell them. I am a collector and have been so for over 20 years. I am not going to let you take me down just because you are bitter! You build your collection over 20 years and then you can come after people!

I am out for the little guy here. If I really wanted to buy stuff from you, I would have let this one slide - but I can't be a decent human being, if I allow others to get ripped off. Honestly, not everyone is in the business for 20 years. Not everyone collects for 20 years. I don't even intend to collect for 20 years; I have more important and more valuable things in my life. I just want the average human being to know what he's getting himself into before buying bats at extremely high prices from questionable sources that were supposed to be game used. The world would be a better place if people put ethics above profits.

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 10:08 PM
The Bagwell jersey retirement program clearly shows Jeff Bagewll with a SAM bat resting on his shoulder.

Yes, you are correct. It is just liked the pictures I sent you of a the bat you asked for pictures of. It DOES NOT have any pine tar. As clearly seen in the pictures, only the Easton Stix bat has pine tar. The e-mail you are showing screen shots, sent from my blackberry with pictures attached, taken with a cheap Fujifilm Finepix camera (my throw away quick download camera that doesn't have to come out of the case like my Nikon), with 2 GB SD memory card, transfered to my blackberry via a Belkin multi-card reader. I then composed an e-mail, and then added a file, and hit send.

The e-mail from my blackberry states:

Leslie,

Here are pics. The Sam bat does have a few signs of light use, including a couple of ball marks, and some slight tacky tar around the center brand. The bat has the PSA/DNA sticker attached on the back of the barrel. The letter states the bat to be from 1997-98, but I believe more like 1996-97. The Sam bat shows virtually no use, but does have rack marks and a dull scuff at the end of the barrel. It dates to 2003. It looks like the bat he is using on the cover of the Astros program from his jersey retirement game.

Thanks,

Chris

I am sure you think I am making this all up, but why would I. Clearly in my retyped e-mail above, I refer to the Sam bat twice, yet I sent you pictures of both a Easton/Stix bat and Sam bat.

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 10:11 PM
Yes, you are correct. It is just liked the pictures I sent you of a the bat you asked for pictures of. It DOES NOT have any pine tar. As clearly seen in the pictures, only the Easton Stix bat has pine tar. The e-mail you are showing screen shots, sent from my blackberry with pictures attached, taken with a cheap Fujifilm Finepix camera (my throw away quick download camera that doesn't have to come out of the case like my Nikon), with 2 GB SD memory card, transfered to my blackberry via a Belkin multi-card reader. I then composed an e-mail, and then added a file, and hit send.

The e-mail from my blackberry states:

Leslie,

Here are pics. The Sam bat does have a few signs of light use, including a couple of ball marks, and some slight tacky tar around the center brand. The bat has the PSA/DNA sticker attached on the back of the barrel. The letter states the bat to be from 1997-98, but I believe more like 1996-97. The Sam bat shows virtually no use, but does have rack marks and a dull scuff at the end of the barrel. It dates to 2003. It looks like the bat he is using on the cover of the Astros program from his jersey retirement game.

Thanks,

Chris

I am sure you think I am making this all up, but why would I. Clearly in my retyped e-mail above, I refer to the Sam bat twice, yet I sent you pictures of both a Easton/Stix bat and Sam bat.

I never received such an email. Why can't you admit you lied and try to be a more ethical seller in the future. Perhaps you can get back some of the customers you've lost over the years.

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 10:14 PM
I am out for the little guy here. If I really wanted to buy stuff from you, I would have let this one slide - but I can't be a decent human being, if I allow others to get ripped off. Honestly, not everyone is in the business for 20 years. Not everyone collects for 20 years. I don't even intend to collect for 20 years; I have more important and more valuable things in my life. I just want the average human being to know what he's getting himself into before buying bats at extremely high prices from questionable sources that were supposed to be game used. The world would be a better place if people put ethics above profits.

Frik,

Please send me an e-mail with your shipping address and I will send you the Bagwell Sam bat FREE of charge! You can keep it! You have made me hate the bat! When you receive it, I ask that you review the bat and look for any sign of use, tar, sign of tar, etc. Look for ball marks too. Also, look for the scuff and bat rack marks too. Take your own photos of it and send them to Scott Brosius, the one I bought it from on eBay. Ask to see if it appears as they sold it to me. If you would like I will pay for you to send it back to Scott Brosius for inspection. I will pay all fees. Once you have made your own decision, I request toy report back to the forum your thoughts on the bat. Again, the bat is yours to keep! Do we have a deal? If so, I will ship the bat to you first thing Monday morning.

I want to prove I am not as bad as people think. I have made mistakes and I owned up to them. This won't clear me, but at least you can let the forum members know here I did not modify this bat.

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 10:17 PM
I never received such an email. Why can't you admit you lied and try to be a more ethical seller in the future. Perhaps you can get back some of the customers you've lost over the years.

Frik,

Why would I lie about an e-mail I typed that was a request you made. Does the e-mail I retyped conflict the the photos I sent you at all? I do find it strange you have only a partial e-mail with the middle missing. How can I prove this to you?

Again, the Sam bat is yours to keep. Send me your address and I will send the bat to you. I only ask that you clear my name of modifying the bat. You said you have been looking for a Sam bat, so it is yours! I only ask that you report back to the forum!

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 10:21 PM
Frik,

Please send me an e-mail with your shipping address and I will send you the Bagwell Sam bat FREE of charge! You can keep it! You have made me hate the bat! When you receive it, I ask that you review the bat and look for any sign of use, tar, sign of tar, etc. Look for ball marks too. Also, look for the scuff and bat rack marks too. Take your own photos of it and send them to Scott Brosius, the one I bought it from on eBay. Ask to see if it appears as they sold it to me. If you would like I will pay for you to send it back to Scott Brosius for inspection. I will pay all fees. Once you have made your own decision, I request toy report back to the forum your thoughts on the bat. Again, the bat is yours to keep! Do we have a deal? If so, I will ship the bat to you first thing Monday morning.

I want to prove I am not as bad as people think. I have made mistakes and I owned up to them. This won't clear me, but at least you can let the forum members know here I did not modify this bat.

Come on, I don't need this garbage. Who the seller is is irrelevant. I am going back to Portland as soon as the floodwaters on I-5 (freeway) recede. I won't even be home come Monday. I am not looking for stuff; I am just looking for decency. You are confusing the issue; the only point is that you told me that there was use on a bat that the original seller told me wasn't there. That's also what your ad indicates. I refuse - after everything else I have read and seen on the forum - to believe that this was a simple mistake.

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 10:21 PM
Isn't posting a private convo a bootable offense on here?

I say get out the boot

We don't need bitter trouble makers on here

Chakes,

Thank you for your defense! I feel Leslie means no ill intent to the forum rules. She is just trying to look out for people.

BTW, have you received the media guides I sent? I was going to e-mail from my home computer, but it is "sick" and didn't have your e-mail on my blackberry.

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 10:24 PM
Come on, I don't need this garbage. Who the seller is is irrelevant. I am going back to Portland as soon as the floodwaters on I-5 (freeway) recede. I won't even be home come Monday. I am not looking for stuff; I am just looking for decency. You are confusing the issue; the only point is that you told me that there was use on a bat that the original seller told me wasn't there. That's also what your ad indicates. I refuse - after everything else I have read and seen on the forum - to believe that this was a simple mistake.

Leslie,

Send me your parents address in Portland and I will send it there. It should take 2-3 days to arrive. I am not kidding, I want you to see for yourself the bat is in original condition. You corresponded with the seller, so you to know who it is. I am also know you have been looking for a Sam bat, so it is yours to keep.

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 10:28 PM
Come on, I don't need this garbage. Who the seller is is irrelevant. I am going back to Portland as soon as the floodwaters on I-5 (freeway) recede. I won't even be home come Monday. I am not looking for stuff; I am just looking for decency. You are confusing the issue; the only point is that you told me that there was use on a bat that the original seller told me wasn't there. That's also what your ad indicates. I refuse - after everything else I have read and seen on the forum - to believe that this was a simple mistake.

You are absolutely correct, the seller is irrelevent and there is no use on the bat. I am not disagreeing with the seller. The Biggio bat I purchased at the same time is also pristine!

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 10:39 PM
BTW, have you received the media guides I sent? I was going to e-mail from my home computer, but it is "sick" and didn't have your e-mail on my blackberry.

No media guides were received.

cigarman44
01-09-2009, 10:42 PM
Isn't posting a private convo a bootable offense on here?

I say get out the boot

We don't need bitter trouble makers on here


Looks like the bat doctors sidekick has made it out of the bat cave...:rolleyes:

zookerman182
01-09-2009, 10:46 PM
Looks like the bat doctors sidekick has made it out of the bat cave...:rolleyes:


Yeah seriously.

cigarman44
01-09-2009, 10:47 PM
Frik,

I don't have to disclose any and all items to you! I can lie about what I have, I can hype up my items, I can change my mind, I can choose to sell, I can choose to make as much profit as I want!

"I can also change the pinetar and change the knob writing to get the desired profit I need!"

zookerman182
01-09-2009, 10:49 PM
"I can also change the pinetar and change the knob writing to get the desired profit I need!"

And i can also act like a good business man by offering to give one of my zillion bats away. To make it look like im the bad guy and so other people will continue to buy my over priced fake game used items.

chakes89
01-09-2009, 10:53 PM
Chakes,

Thank you for your defense! I feel Leslie means no ill intent to the forum rules. She is just trying to look out for people.

BTW, have you received the media guides I sent? I was going to e-mail from my home computer, but it is "sick" and didn't have your e-mail on my blackberry.
I got the first batch

Still waiting on the second batch which should be here tomorrow or Monday

Thanks Again

If she doesn't want that bat I will take it :D

(And my computer was "sick" as well. Don't get me started on RoadRunner/Time Warner :mad: )

chakes89
01-09-2009, 10:55 PM
Looks like the bat doctors sidekick has made it out of the bat cave...:rolleyes:
Come Again?

chakes89
01-09-2009, 10:57 PM
I would have posted that no matter who was involved

I would have defended Satan in this matter against the person that brought it up

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 10:58 PM
And i can also act like a good business man by offering to give one of my zillion bats away. To make it look like im the bad guy and so other people will continue to buy my over priced fake game used items.

Zookerman,

If you would like to start a separate thread about you begging me for the Soriano bat, we can. Or even discussing the months it took you to pay off the bat. Or better yet, why don't you and cigarman follow the forum rules and not bait people.

zookerman182
01-09-2009, 11:00 PM
Zookerman,

If you would like to start a separate thread about you begging me for the Soriano bat, we can. Or even discussing the months it took you to pay off the bat. Or better yet, why don't you and cigarman follow the forum rules and not bait people.

you are a tool

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 11:03 PM
you are a tool

Zookerman,

Okay, your are right! I am a tool. Thank you for your insight and wisdom. Please move on the the next personal attack.

skyking26
01-09-2009, 11:04 PM
Lock the thread.........

zookerman182
01-09-2009, 11:05 PM
Zookerman,

Okay, your are right! I am a tool. Thank you for your insight and wisdom. Please move on the the next personal attack.


I, like frik, am just warning collectors about how you do business. If you cant handle hearing the truth then go away.

kingjammy24
01-09-2009, 11:15 PM
Isn't posting a private convo a bootable offense on here?

I say get out the boot

We don't need bitter trouble makers on here

good to see you've hit the real issue! this has nothing to do with bat doctoring, false and misleading descriptions, and a guy who's a cancer in the hobby. the real evil here is that someone's posted a private convo! brilliant.

website: "this one has light use"
"you will see there is not a bit of tar or use on the Sam bat"
"In my opinion, the Sam bat does have "light use."
"I go on in my e-mail to state that the sam bat has no use"

"I see nothing wrong with the description."

maybe the fact that it keeps changing every 5 min is an issue.

"In regard to my website, as many people know, I had not updated my site in over 1 year. I have been experimenting with a total revamp."

well that explains it then. the reason the description is misleading is because the site hasn't been updated. makes perfect sense. i think that's what happened with bernie madoff too. he just didn't update his website. were you "experimenting" with descriptions too? what'll the revamp be like? instead of misleading descriptions, maybe they'll automatically change every few hours?

"I can lie about what I have, I can hype up my items, I can change my mind"

there's the real chris boyd! is that what they call it now.."hyping up"? back when i made my first million, we called it false advertising.

how have you owned up to your "mistakes"? when you doctored the lee bat, you implied the shipping service must've added tar. when you drew stars on the pujols bat and were insane enough to say pujols did it, you said "all I can plead is a rushed listing". when you're in a hurry, lies just come pouring out?

with the pujols bat you finally said "I have not, and will not claim anything other than deception." yet then actually had the nerve to say "I don't want people to think I am dishonest". you admit to deceiving people yet don't want them to think you're dishonest?

chris, truly, people like you are what's wrong with this hobby.

"I can lie about what I have.."
"I don't want people to think I am dishonest"

rudy.

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 11:15 PM
Admin,

I know that this thread will likely soon be locked, or possibly even deleted. As much as many people think I want it deleted, I would ask that it remain. People will throw things in my face until the end, and that is fine. I would like to state a few main points as I hope to not further respond to the ludicrous posts and antagonists that this thread has drawn out of the woodwork:

1. Communication was lacking between myself and Leslie prior to her posting publicly. I am okay with that.

2. I have fully responded (respectfully) to the claims made this evening. I have nothing to hide.

3. Many have responded to this thread with posts with which I believe to try and bait me. Many posts have nothing to to do with the toipic at hand. I understand people trying to use the past to draw conclusions about this topic, but that is not fair.

4. I kindly request that anyone choosing to not deal with me, please do not deal with me. I kindly request that anyone that chooses to try and mock me or poke fun at me, please re-read the rules.

5. I have offered Leslie the Bagwell Sam Bat, not only to verify I have not altered the bat, but as a gift. All I ask is that she report the bat to be unaltered. No strings attached.

and

6. I have received 3 offers to purchase the bat from me :) A new twist to advertising I guess!

Leslie,

The offer stands on the bat!

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 11:16 PM
Zookerman,

If you would like to start a separate thread about you begging me for the Soriano bat, we can. Or even discussing the months it took you to pay off the bat. Or better yet, why don't you and cigarman follow the forum rules and not bait people.

Why do people need to be begging you for your items, Chris? It makes no sense. Everyone else I deal with is pretty straight up - this is for sale, end of story. You sometimes say, "Well, make me an offer I can't refuse." And I do as such, and now it becomes I am begging for items.

When I deal with you, Chris, I feel manipulated. You say it's not about the money. But it is almost as if you thrive on getting other people dependant on you for stuff. You even said you were a "venture capitalist", meaning your goal was to make money.

First, something is the best thing you've ever seen, and the only one, and the next minute someone's offering me the same thing, also from you, with more use.

It's easy to say you'll send a $177.50 bat away. What would truly be the ethical thing for you to do is refund the jersey that you sold to me based on false information.

But getting back to the original topic, first a bat shows light use, then a bat shows no use. Which is it? Your really confusing me.

camarokids
01-09-2009, 11:28 PM
Don't want to pick sides here. But, a lot of game used dealers will call a bat game used that ONLY has rack marks.....I don't agree with it, but it is done everyday.

The only thing I think should've been done differently??? Is the description should have been more in depth.....

But, it is not my decision or my business...

Also if someone buys an item that was described one way and the buyer receives the said item. Then turns around and lists it another way based on their knowledge of the market. There is no wrong.

I used to collect coins. I bought a $60 coin from a 30 years plus experienced coin dealer, out of his case, in his store. I knew the coin was a rare variety. I turned around and had the coin professionally graded and sold it for a $1000 to another dealer.....

Another time from the same dealer I bought a coin for $200.00 and had it graded, it graded higher than what I bought it for. I sold the coin back to the same dealer for $750.00.

People make money everyday from their knowledge and from someones lack of knowledge....

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 11:29 PM
good to see you've hit the real issue! this has nothing to do with bat doctoring, false and misleading descriptions, and a guy who's a cancer in the hobby. the real evil here is that someone's posted a private convo! brilliant.

website: "this one has light use"
"you will see there is not a bit of tar or use on the Sam bat"
"In my opinion, the Sam bat does have "light use."
"I go on in my e-mail to state that the sam bat has no use"

"I see nothing wrong with the description."

maybe the fact that it keeps changing every 5 min is an issue.

"In regard to my website, as many people know, I had not updated my site in over 1 year. I have been experimenting with a total revamp."

well that explains it then. the reason the description is misleading is because the site hasn't been updated. makes perfect sense. i think that's what happened with bernie madoff too. he just didn't update his website. were you "experimenting" with descriptions too? what'll the revamp be like? instead of misleading descriptions, maybe they'll automatically change every few hours?

"I can lie about what I have, I can hype up my items, I can change my mind"

there's the real chris boyd! is that what they call it now.."hyping up"? back when i made my first million, we called it false advertising.

how have you owned up to your "mistakes"? when you doctored the lee bat, you implied the shipping service must've added tar. when you drew stars on the pujols bat and were insane enough to say pujols did it, you said "all I can plead is a rushed listing". when you're in a hurry, lies just come pouring out?

with the pujols bat you finally said "I have not, and will not claim anything other than deception." yet then actually had the nerve to say "I don't want people to think I am dishonest". you admit to deceiving people yet don't want them to think you're dishonest?

chris, truly, people like you are what's wrong with this hobby.

"I can lie about what I have.."
"I don't want people to think I am dishonest"

rudy.

Rudy,

Thanks for rehashing the past! I have admitting making mistakes; I am man enough to do that, more than most will ever do. My past is exactly that . . . the past. You don't have to forgive me, I don't expect you to. I am comfortable with my doings and that is that matters to me and my maker. All I know is that I did not nothing wrong here today. You can highlight and italicize my words all day long. If I define use as bat rack marks and a scuff, then that is my business. If you don't like it, stay away.

I am glad to see you have been as fortunate with wealth as myself. I don't believe you would really do it via false advertising. In my life I have learned that cutting corners and not always doing the right thing does not pay. I destroyed a Pujols and Lee bat to prove it. But, I can honestly say my plate is now clean.

Thanks and have a good evening!

chakes89
01-09-2009, 11:36 PM
If you are still looking to give the bat away I will take it

I want to take the auto off and use it to hit with

I will put some ball marks on that bad boy

eGameUsed
01-09-2009, 11:42 PM
Why do people need to be begging you for your items, Chris? It makes no sense. Everyone else I deal with is pretty straight up - this is for sale, end of story. You sometimes say, "Well, make me an offer I can't refuse." And I do as such, and now it becomes I am begging for items.

When I deal with you, Chris, I feel manipulated. You say it's not about the money. But it is almost as if you thrive on getting other people dependant on you for stuff. You even said you were a "venture capitalist", meaning your goal was to make money.

First, something is the best thing you've ever seen, and the only one, and the next minute someone's offering me the same thing, also from you, with more use.

It's easy to say you'll send a $177.50 bat away. What would truly be the ethical thing for you to do is refund the jersey that you sold to me based on false information.

But getting back to the original topic, first a bat shows light use, then a bat shows no use. Which is it? Your really confusing me.

Leslie,

I do consider myself a verture capitalist. I do make profits on selling sports memorabilia. I do pay income taxes based on every penny of profit I make! I do NOT support my family with my income from this "business." I use it to buy other items. Mnay people know I am willing to pay more than any other person for items. I feel very proud of my items. "Make me an offer I can't refuse" is my business model. There is nothing wrong with that. There is no price guide on sports memorabilia, therefore, these collectibles are only worth what someone is willing to pay. You may say I "took advantage of you," but you knew exactly what you were getting and were in accord with the prices. I have e-mails from you stating how pleased and satisfied with the jersey, gloves, and cleats you were. I also have e-mails from you where you are very angry I wouldn't make an item available to you.

Do you recall the time you called me very upset because I did not make it known to you that I had a pair of Bagwell gloves with the hard shell? I did in fact have a pair, but they were in my personnel collection and not for sale at the time. You commanded me that the only right thing to do was exchange the item for the ones you bought.

Have I not contacted you everytime an items was available? Did I not offer you complete choice of the 2003 Bagwell jersey. I answered hours of questions to help you make the right decision.

In regards to the bat. The seller says absolutely no use. A valid definition. I see bat rack marks and a couple of minor scuffs. I call it light use. If someone buys the item, they have the ability to inspect and return it for a full refund within 7 days. If the item is ever proven to be not as stated, I guarantee it for life. If you were to buy this bat and decide it is not to your liking, send it back.

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 11:42 PM
If you are still looking to give the bat away I will take it

I want to take the auto off and use it to hit with

I will put some ball marks on that bad boy

You can have it. Put some ball marks in it before Chris does. I don't need that bat. If Chris wants to do anything he would refund me for the jersey he sold to me based on false information about the source, the market value, the autograph, the number of jerseys he had, etc. He told me that he was going to give me the better of the jerseys he had. Now I found out there was one with much better provenance. I paid for a jersey I was told was from a friend of Jeff's in California, not for a jersey that was bought from a dealer who doesn't even know Bagwell.

frikativ54
01-09-2009, 11:47 PM
Leslie,

I do consider myself a verture capitalist. I do make profits on selling sports memorabilia. I do pay income taxes based on every penny of profit I make! I do NOT support my family with my income from this "business." I use it to buy other items. Mnay people know I am willing to pay more than any other person for items. I feel very proud of my items. "Make me an offer I can't refuse" is my business model. There is nothing wrong with that. There is no price guide on sports memorabilia, therefore, these collectibles are only worth what someone is willing to pay. You may say I "took advantage of you," but you knew exactly what you were getting and were in accord with the prices. I have e-mails from you stating how pleased and satisfied with the jersey, gloves, and cleats you were. I also have e-mails from you where you are very angry I wouldn't make an item available to you.

Do you recall the time you called me very upset because I did not make it known to you that I had a pair of Bagwell gloves with the hard shell? I did in fact have a pair, but they were in my personnel collection and not for sale at the time. You commanded me that the only right thing to do was exchange the item for the ones you bought.

Have I not contacted you everytime an items was available? Did I not offer you complete choice of the 2003 Bagwell jersey. I answered hours of questions to help you make the right decision.

In regards to the bat. The seller says absolutely no use. A valid definition. I see bat rack marks and a couple of minor scuffs. I call it light use. If someone buys the item, they have the ability to inspect and return it for a full refund within 7 days. If the item is ever proven to be not as stated, I guarantee it for life. If you were to buy this bat and decide it is not to your liking, send it back.

I always thank people when I receive items. In your case, Chris, the deal with the bat was the straw that broke the camel's back. You never told me that there was another jersey available for me. Yes - I was very upset when you sold a pair of Bagwell gloves with the hard shell after we had an agreement to buy them. I don't need this garbage. Just be honest, and you wouldn't have problems with anyone. But you didn't give me the full truth with the bat, and you didn't give me the full truth with the jerseys. I made a decision based upon the incomplete information I had. I am asking you to be ethical, if that is not too much to ask. You really should refund me for the jersey and take that bat down off your site.

kylehess10
01-09-2009, 11:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5FfJ89rGPc&feature=related

chakes89
01-09-2009, 11:55 PM
Frik where do you get off trying to tell people what to do?

After all is said and done, I think people will see not to deal with YOU after seeing how you have treated Chris

Demanding this, Demanding That

I don't see how or why he put up with you for more than 1 transaction

GoTigers
01-10-2009, 12:00 AM
"I can lie about what I have, I can hype up my items, I can change my mind, I can choose to sell, I can choose to make as much profit as I want! You can disagree all day long and tell me I am wrong, but I cna still do what I want."
Says it all... look for your website to get a few less hits a month, it's been deleted from my bookmarks.

frikativ54
01-10-2009, 12:08 AM
Frik where do you get off trying to tell people what to do?

After all is said and done, I think people will see not to deal with YOU after seeing how you have treated Chris

Demanding this, Demanding That

I don't see how or why he put up with you for more than 1 transaction

I just think that there are ethical standards that we all need to meet, and when I saw that bat again, with a revised description it really upset me. The reason why he dealt witih me - I believe - is because I paid him more than fair value for his items.

frikativ54
01-10-2009, 12:19 AM
I just think that there are ethical standards that we all need to meet, and when I saw that bat again, with a revised description it really upset me. The reason why he dealt witih me - I believe - is because I paid him more than fair value for his items.

"I don't offer refunds on ethics, unless an item I have sold is found to be not specified." -Chris Boyd