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bigtruck260
10-21-2008, 11:12 PM
For those of you that disagree with the above named auction house's consignment policy regarding the sale of authentic memorabilia...

There is a guy on YouTube who has a personal vendetta against them.

Interesting video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28V-R__4708&feature=user

Rob L
10-21-2008, 11:27 PM
Classic!!

lund6771
10-21-2008, 11:54 PM
Absolutely Incredible...I looked at their site and this is a complete joke...

CC so blatent about it that I can't believe they haven't been raided!!!!

I sure hope the FBI is looking at these guys!!!

Question to the guys who work at SCD...You read these boards and post here....

How can you let these crooks advertise in your magazine and still be able considered credible?...

I'm sure there will no reply from anyone at SCD because they have the balls the size of my neutered dog

halofan
10-22-2008, 12:01 AM
I collect Vladimir Guerrero stuff, there is a signed ball that is clearly fake on there.

Lokee
10-22-2008, 12:06 AM
one word to decribe this...


OWNED !

Vintagedeputy
10-22-2008, 07:52 AM
Imagine that, someone calling out Coach's Corner for selling fake stuff......what are the odds? :)

allstarsplus
10-22-2008, 08:07 AM
I loved his ending signoff "Coach's Corner Comode".

Seems like the wolf is guarding the hen house.

Here is his Part II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zZR7Kwa1a8&feature=related He reads a COA from Coach's Corner. Very interesting.

mvandor
10-22-2008, 09:12 AM
For those of you that disagree with the above named auction house's consignment policy regarding the sale of authentic memorabilia...

There is a guy on YouTube who has a personal vendetta against them.

Interesting video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28V-R__4708&feature=user

While this guy is likely right, he proves nothing in his video, he should have shown the forgeries next to exemplars that were indisputable.

ndevlin
10-22-2008, 09:33 AM
Though a lot of the stuff looks kind of junky. Keep in mind they probably dont have forum members looking at every single piece giving their two cents worth, for free. Not every auction house has that luxory.

dcgreg25
10-22-2008, 09:47 AM
Its always good to have people step up and expose someone selling fakes but I agree it would have been much more helpful if he had provided comparisons between fake and UDA or other authentic signatures. I am shocked that Coach's Corner is still around. My guess is the people who buy their items are people that are new to collecting or buying gifts for people who are collectors. Its unfortunate because when the people find out what they have it turns a lot of people off to the hobby.

momen55
10-22-2008, 11:24 AM
all the auction houses do the same thing; sell junk. i was looking through past american memorabilia auctions and couldn't believe the stuff that sold that was classified as game used by a certain player but wasn't. it is a joke and until someone steps up and knocks these guys out of business it will continue.
good for him for doing that show.

lund6771
10-22-2008, 12:43 PM
Here is another incredibly rare piece offered by this respected, and SCD endorsed, auction house

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDTmXQgysHg&feature=related

lund6771
10-22-2008, 12:51 PM
all the auction houses do the same thing; sell junk. i was looking through past american memorabilia auctions and couldn't believe the stuff that sold that was classified as game used by a certain player but wasn't. it is a joke and until someone steps up and knocks these guys out of business it will continue.
good for him for doing that show.

what items were these Momen55?...or which player?

I think AMI will knock itself out of business beacuse of their horrific costumer service and their 8 month payment programs that are filled with lies and deceipt...

I also have noticed that Dave O'Brien has not posted in their defence in quite some time...do they owe you $ as well Dave?

CollectGU
10-22-2008, 01:23 PM
what items were these Momen55?...or which player?

I think AMI will knock itself out of business beacuse of their horrific costumer service and their 8 month payment programs that are filled with lies and deceipt...

I also have noticed that Dave O'Brien has not posted in their defence in quite some time...do they owe you $ as well Dave?

No Pete, I quit arguing with you over this long ago. It always seemed pointless, and I grew weary of the back and forth. You seem to have a vandetta against them. Every thread you write in, you always seem to change the thread so that you can write something negative about them. That's fine with me.

Regards,
Dave

trsent
10-22-2008, 02:12 PM
Here is another incredibly rare piece offered by this respected, and SCD endorsed, auction house

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDTmXQgysHg&feature=related


SCD endorses Coach's Corner?

I just thought they were a paid advertiser that SCD couldn't turn down anymore because no one else advertises with them to their extent.

ChrisCavalier
10-22-2008, 02:27 PM
all the auction houses do the same thing; sell junk. i was looking through past american memorabilia auctions and couldn't believe the stuff that sold that was classified as game used by a certain player but wasn't. it is a joke and until someone steps up and knocks these guys out of business it will continue.
good for him for doing that show.
While I am not trying to defend anyone here, please note that these types of comments should really not be posted unless there is something definitive that can be substantiated. I agree with those posting in this thread that if you are going to call an item into question you should provide some basis for doing so, no just say things are bad.

In addition, as per the forum rules, if you do have a question about an item being sold, it is expected that you contact the seller before posting here. That is intended to allow the seller an opportunity to respond and potentially eliminate posts that may be based on misunderstandings.

Lastly, we will ask that you please don't call out other members unneccasarily. Here is the forum rule in that regard:

It is expected that all posts are to be created with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby. Any posts which the Administrator deems as a personal attack or an attempt to unnecessarily discredit others will be subject to the administrative rules of the forum.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

bigtruck260
10-22-2008, 02:29 PM
With all of the ad space in SCD, you'd think they own stock in the company....

Here is a fine example of a great 'deal' from CC:

A Walter Johnson signed baseball. Two things stand out here...first, Johnson died in 1946 - and the signature is crisp and bright like a Steiner signature. To make matters worse, it is a great signature on a worn baseball. Second, ballpoint pens were not popular until after Johnson's death. Yes, they were available, but for a price - $12.50 each in NYC - it might be possible - but doubtful considering that most ballpoints from the 40's on baseballs have a much different look. If the ball is 'valued' at $25,000, why is it only at $368? Will the consignor allow the auction to end with the ball being significantly less than the estimate?

allstarsplus
10-22-2008, 03:40 PM
Dave - Follow the bouncing ball. That Walter Johnson has a COA from Stat Authentic.

In fact there are 111 items with Stat Authentic COA's on this November 2008 Coach's Corner auction.

In fact, the Babe Ruth ball on Coach's Corner claims a Stat Authentic COA with the following notation (who do some authentication work for the Babe Ruth Museum in Baltimore, MD!) which would lead you to certain conclusions as to Babe Ruth (read Jeff's background on Stat website as it makes no reference to Babe Ruth Museum authentication work)

I did some research into Stat Authentic's relationship to the Babe Ruth Museum and interestly enough, Jeff Stevens was formerly employed as a Director of Retail operations for the museum. When I asked Ed Meerholz CFO of the Babe Ruth Museum about Jeff Stevens or Stat doing Babe Ruth authenticatons he said he couldn't honestly recall Jeff Stevens or Stat doing any Babe Ruth signature authentications for the Babe Ruth Museum. Ed Meerholz said Jeff Stevens is an honest good guy and said the only authentication work he could recall Jeff Stevens doing was some in-person authentication of some retired Orioles signed autographs that were done in front of him.

Who is Stat Authentic? Stevens-Taylor Authentication Team(STAT) 1527 Edge Hill Rd. P. O. Box 273 Abington, PA

Testimonials for Coach's Corner:
"When I chose to auction off my most prized personal momentos, there was no other choice but Coach's Corner." Bobby Schantz -- Former Major League Baseball Player

"They are my number one choice for buying and consigning." Ted Taylor -- Former VP of Fleer, Scoreboard, and Hobby Pioneer (visit http://www.tedtaylor.com/)

"They promised me my consignment check in 30 days, but I always get it in 7." Ken Thimmel -- All American Collectibles

"Those 'pests'are like the green flies at a picnic, always buzzing around and pestering me for autographs." Dick Allen -- Former Major League Baseball Player

http://tedtaylor.com/columns.htm Ted (http://tedtaylor.com/columns.htm Ted) Taylor's Collector's Corner

In all fairness to the background on Jeff Stevens on the Stat website it says,

Jeff Stevens - Longtime retail marketing exec with the Baseball Hall of Fame, Cooperstown, NY; Manager of Mickey's Place, Marketing Director of Cooperstown Bat, Retail Operations Director with Sports Legends at Camden Yards, host of countless star autograph signing events (public and private), creator of many highly coveted Hall of Fame and Cooperstown Bat memorabilia items, specialty marketer of hobby products, baseball "insider", and a lifelong collector.

Ted Taylor - Co-founder of the Philadelphia Baseball Card & Sports Memorabilia Shows, Founding President of the Philadelphia Athletics Historical Society, longtime hobby columnist on the Internet and with both The Philadelphia Daily News and Sports Collectors Digest, VP of hobby sales and marketing for Fleer during the 90's, author of two hobby books and hundreds of published articles, auction house authenticator, frequent "expert witness" in hobby legal cases and featured on HBO as an autograph expert and is a lifelong collector.

lund6771
10-22-2008, 05:00 PM
Here is another incredibly rare piece offered by this respected, and SCD endorsed, auction house

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDTmXQgysHg&feature=related


SCD endorses Coach's Corner?

I just thought they were a paid advertiser that SCD couldn't turn down anymore because no one else advertises with them to their extent.


maybe "endorse" wasn't the right word....maybe blind eye?...whatever the right word for it is, I think that SCD are a bunch of "Female Parts" for allowing these crooks to keep advertising

Dave...you're right what you say....but you know that I'm not making anything up either

bigtruck260
10-22-2008, 05:56 PM
Gotcha.

momen55
10-22-2008, 05:56 PM
sorry chris. here is link to one item. http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=28143
the helmet is from the 90's. how did vic wear it in 77-81? early helmets had the ABC logo embossed in the manufacture process. some time in 89 through early 90, ABC started using decals because it was cheaper to make rather than repair dies as they wore down. :D

momen55
10-22-2008, 06:13 PM
sometime later, someone bought it and listed it on ebay again as a vic used helmet for $400 or $500. ridiculous.

skipcarayislegend
10-23-2008, 09:35 AM
sometime later, someone bought it and listed it on ebay again as a vic used helmet for $400 or $500. ridiculous.

I remember that helmet. It was pretty obvious that it wasn't a Davalillo-era lid. The MLB logo on the back alone should've said enough. Personally though, when I think of AM my first thought isn't "fakes." Everyone goofs from time to time--especially when your name is Lou and you "authenticate" every thing from every sport. My worries with AM would be shill bidding and lengthy consignor payouts.

Also, the ebay seller of the "Davalillo" helmet was a decent guy from what I remember. I actually emailed him with my thoughts on it. After a few cordial back and forths, he pulled the helmet then relisted it as a 90s-era helmet that was possibly issued to Eric Davis (I think) for BP. It was a completely honest description imo. To my knowledge that helmet never sold. So the buyer, though he should've done his own research before he hit the bid button, was stuck with an item that was grossly misrepresented by AM.

bigtruck260
10-25-2008, 03:51 AM
He just posted another video, this time he goes after the Pujols stuff...
I agree, he needs to detail why the sigs are fake - and provide examples from Steiner. It is pretty reflective on how I felt as I winded down my autograph collecting. It is upsetting when I listed a real Pujols ball that I got in person - and it only fetched $110, while an obvious forgery sold at the same time for more. I have empathy for the guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGIvnxnqXAA

allstarsplus
10-25-2008, 08:26 AM
He just posted another video, this time he goes after the Pujols stuff...
I agree, he needs to detail why the sigs are fake - and provide examples from Steiner. It is pretty reflective on how I felt as I winded down my autograph collecting. It is upsetting when I listed a real Pujols ball that I got in person - and it only fetched $110, while an obvious forgery sold at the same time for more. I have empathy for the guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGIvnxnqXAA

If somebody has a YouTube account where they can post comments they should give this guy this link as your suggestion is a good one.

He should use a Steiner Jeter ball and a UDA Pujols balls in his examples.

This is Pujols who is with Upper Deck Authenticated

15384

Derek Jeter with Steiner Sports

15385

Link to FBI site for Operation Bullpen hoping they investigate some more garbage http://sandiego.fbi.gov/bullpen/bullpen.htm

15386

http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

allstarsplus
10-25-2008, 08:32 AM
http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=118893

Here is the Jeter on Coach's Corner vs. Steiner's:

15387

15388

bigtruck260
10-29-2008, 11:57 PM
Andrew,

Looks like he took your advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFyKbm4ZMzs&feature=related

3arod13
10-30-2008, 07:31 AM
I think he needs to be more specific and provide details as to why they are fake. It seems more of his opinion, than factual proof.

allstarsplus
10-30-2008, 08:19 AM
I think he needs to be more specific and provide details as to why they are fake. It seems more of his opinion, than factual proof.

The irony is that he probably has the same credentials as some of the "so-called" authenticators.

I commend him for going online and speaking his mind and what he really needs is Rudy to help him present the side-by-side autographs better.

That recent video is great when he says the guys buying the crap are upset at him instead of being upset at the guy that sold it to him. Typical problem in society is to attack the person delivering the message.

3arod13
10-30-2008, 08:42 AM
That recent video is great when he says the guys buying the crap are upset at him instead of being upset at the guy that sold it to him. Typical problem in society is to attack the person delivering the message.

Yeah, it's like when a spouse cheats on a spouse. Instead of being upset and going after the cheating spouse, the focus is on the other person who was messing with the spouse.

bigtruck260
10-30-2008, 10:15 AM
His disclaimer seems to be that he is going after the most obvious forgeries rather than the borderline sigs....

As far as authentication...I have my own opinions about it.

He seems to be a hard core Jeter fan (probably has seen a million Jeter sigs, right - even browsing eBay and other stuff), Jeter's sig is kind of like Mantle, almost spot on - rarely goes off of the template. If I was looking to buy a Jeter auto for my personal collection, I would rather have someone who knows 'nothing but Jeter' give me the thumbs up. That's just me...

If I was in the market for a Zimmerman or Soriano bat, I'd email Andrew rather than sending it to one of the authenticators - especially if it was something I was planning on keeping forever, rather than flipping in a year. I do realize that some folks live and die by PSA/JSA, etc...and from a business standpoint it only makes sense since many newer collectors (and some old ones) only want things that have the certification.

As far as Pujols and A-Rod, they have variations of sigs...and are much more difficult to judge. I would only buy an auto of Albert that was witnessed by UD or the Foundation - even if I was 99% sure that it was the real deal. There are some really good fakes out there to go with the bad ones.

I have empathy for the guy making these videos. He is taking a big risk by publicly shooting at an auction house.

allstarsplus
10-30-2008, 11:45 AM
Yeah, it's like when a spouse cheats on a spouse. Instead of being upset and going after the cheating spouse, the focus is on the other person who was messing with the spouse.

I like your analogy, but I think it is more like the neighbor goes on YouTube and says that the spouse is cheating on you (which is true) and then instead of taking it out on the cheating spouse they both take it out on the neighbor.

Note - Don't shoot the messenger!~;)


If I was in the market for a Zimmerman or Soriano bat, I'd email Andrew rather than sending it to one of the authenticators

LOL. You pegged my only 2 specialities in the Game Used area! Your point is spot on with people with their own areas of expertise.

I remember in 1998 when everyone wanted McGwire items and there were so many fake signatures, I think his name is Randall Hahn who was the expert on just McGwire sigs. People were paying several $100's for just totally fake junk.

After getting ripped off on a $35 ball with a fake Harmon Killebrew, I figured out what the fake ball market is all about---VLOUME! If you take a $10 baseball and fake the signature, you have a screwed up $10 ball that is only good to play catch with your kid. The forger made about $25 on that ball and if he repeats that 10 times a day he is making $250 a day.

If you get away with it on a Jeter or Pujols, maybe the number jumps to $85 or more per fake ball than you only need to sell 4 and make $300 per week.

Somebody is still living large off of fake sigs and Operation Bullpen should maybe do a 2nd sweep and find out where this current load of crap is coming from!

jobathenut
12-29-2008, 02:55 AM
in american justice,youre innocent until proven guilty,but not on here i guess,just because some person claims it,well it's got to be true cause so and so said it to be.......no evidence,just your word....not sure how all of these claims and that youtube thing isnt slander....im not saying that cc is guilty,or not gulity,im just pointing out there is no way to just be able to claim they sell fake autographs without having the proof...i know there are alot of "experts" on here that think thier word is golden,that they are in the know when it comes to autographs,but i just think that no place especially auction places are fake proof,and i also dont think places like steiner and psa are either.....i mean if it turned out that everyones #1 place steiner turned out to sell fakes,it would blow alot of yours minds......and just because they sell autographs cheap,doesnt mean its a fake......i mean in selling off some of my collection,ive sold some of my items for less than what i paid for the item.....you just realize youre not finding anyone to pay what you paid for it.......and yes,ive done buisness with cc and i am very happy with what i bought from them,i bought a item,that i also had a in-person signed item of that person and the one i bought from them looks just like the one i got myself.........i just dont know if you should blame them cause someone consigns a fake autograph to them to sell,they cant be held responsible anymore than ebay can......:)

chakes89
12-29-2008, 08:42 AM
http://myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=128625

ChrisCavalier
12-29-2008, 09:05 AM
I believe the last two posts are referring primarily to a post that we needed to delete as it violated the following forum rule:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, it is expected that the poster clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, it is expected that the poster questioning an item will attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item.

Joba, if you would like your recent post removed in light of the recent deletion please let us know.

cohibasmoker
01-01-2009, 10:14 AM
in american justice,youre innocent until proven guilty,but not on here i guess,just because some person claims it,well it's got to be true cause so and so said it to be.......no evidence,just your word....not sure how all of these claims and that youtube thing isnt slander....im not saying that cc is guilty,or not gulity,im just pointing out there is no way to just be able to claim they sell fake autographs without having the proof...i know there are alot of "experts" on here that think thier word is golden,that they are in the know when it comes to autographs,but i just think that no place especially auction places are fake proof,and i also dont think places like steiner and psa are either.....i mean if it turned out that everyones #1 place steiner turned out to sell fakes,it would blow alot of yours minds......and just because they sell autographs cheap,doesnt mean its a fake......i mean in selling off some of my collection,ive sold some of my items for less than what i paid for the item.....you just realize youre not finding anyone to pay what you paid for it.......and yes,ive done buisness with cc and i am very happy with what i bought from them,i bought a item,that i also had a in-person signed item of that person and the one i bought from them looks just like the one i got myself.........i just dont know if you should blame them cause someone consigns a fake autograph to them to sell,they cant be held responsible anymore than ebay can......:)

Joba - I agree with some of what you say. There isn't an authenticator out there who hasn't made a mistake (s). We forget, the authenticator's authenticate an item based on "opinion" and NOT scientific evidence. I am willing to bet that if some authenticators were to walk into court and claim to be experts, most would not pass Voir dire and ultimately be dismissed.

To the best of my knowledge, there is one person that I know of who has been certified as an "expert" witness in the sports memorabilia field and that person is Milt Byron. If there are others, I invite other forum members to jump in.

With that said, if people want to keep publicly slamming people I say go right ahead. Just don't be surprised if one day there's a sheriff knocking at your door with civil papers inviting you to court and the first words you're hear out of the Judge's mouth when you're wearing your new suit will be -
will the defendant please rise.

Jim

jppopma
01-01-2009, 07:37 PM
I agree with Jim that people do need to watch what they say and remember that this is a public forum (without an edit or delete button..) that can be accessed by anybody later on.

At the same time, I'm pretty sure many of the people that get slammed on here will likely be using their lawyer money to defend criminal cases and not be able to worry so much about the civil stuff. Well, unless their lawyers offer up some two for one special....