Jim McMahon game used jersey on Ebay [Archive]

dmk2213

10-15-2008, 10:58 PM

I have recently come across a listing on ebay for a supposed game worn Jim McMahon jersey. I only own one game worn jersey and I am trying to get as much information as possible on how to verify its authenticity. I wrote to the seller and she stated that former Eagles punter Brain Barker gave it to her in exchange for her merchandise. She claims that her and her husband owned a store in a Denver Mall where many visiting players frequented, and it was attached the the visitors hotel. Her husband became very friendly with many players and bartered sunglasses and watches for memorabilia. This jersey is from about 1992 and is produced by wilson. What specifics should I be looking for the determine the authenticity? Any info would be helpful. Thanks.

Lokee

10-15-2008, 11:22 PM

This looks like a store model jersey IMO.

I may be wrong but the tagging should not look the way it is along with the tag in the collar as well.

I just have never seen that tagging on a gamer before.

Lokee

10-15-2008, 11:28 PM

almost forgot in 1991 and 1992 they had the NFL shield on the front V. The first pic is from 1991 and the 2nd if from 1992. 1992 also had a patch on the jersey as you can see from the 2nd picture.

I also question the " Tim Brown Game Used Jersey" as well.

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/81345900.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CC2401A4D416EBF74E 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/71526599.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB4A44686112E2136B 4E9C89C783688B46

lou3alex2

10-16-2008, 10:01 AM

Hello, I am Lisa, the one with the listings. Just to start off, I want everyone to know a little about me. Please look at my e-bay account. I am 100% positive and have no lower than a 4.92 in all DSR's. I am the real thing. Also I have removed the McMahon jersey until i am satisfied that everyone else is satisfied.
Now I could be off a month or two about dates that i am about to give you, so do not hold me to exact dates. In late 1989 we opened a watch cart at the Tabor Center in downtown Denver, then in early 1991 we were given the opportunity to open a watch kiosk, which we did and it was along the railing in the food court on the third level. Then in late 1991 the sunglass kiosk went out of business and we were approached by the Tabor center to open one which we did (on the first floor, directly below our watch kiosk). The watch kiosk was TIMES UP and the sunglass kiosk was SUNS UP. Owned by LOU AND LISA FANNING.
The teams would stay at the Westin Hotel which was attached to the Tabor Center. There was a small walkway you could take to get to the food court from the hotel. Because of their "celebrity" the players only went to the food court. They would not have to walk into our store, because we were a kiosk. My husband (very likeable) made friends with all that came by. Went up to their rooms and Would bring them their OAKLEYS, MAUI JIMS, REVOS, ETC., what ever they wanted and he would tell them what we wanted in exchange. The players would have their assistants (towel boy, equipment managers, etc.) and relay to them what to send us. They were happy and we were happy. That is how we got started with our massive sports collection. So I just want all to know, when we received this jersey from Brian Barker we have to trust it is what it is. My husband who is 6' tall and weighs 200lbs can slip this on and it is huge in the shoulders and sooo tight in the mid section. This is not a jersey that would sell in any retail store. It would fit no one. I told the guy who started this post that I would be willing to sent it to him so he could examine it. I really do not know what the answer is, but I pulled it anyway. I do not want anyone to question me at all. And since I did not see Tim Brown take the jersey off his back after a game and personally hand it to me, I have changed that listing also. So with all my info out there, please verify everything I claim. Thank You All So Much. Lisa

lou3alex2

10-16-2008, 10:55 AM

After great thought and looking at all the pictures. i have decided to relist my item. Some Jerseys have that "patch on the shoulder and some don't. The jersey I have also has his name on a "patch" sewn on the jersey. The style is exactly the same as in the pictures. They make many jerseys for the players as you can see in all the pictures They are all different jerseys (some with patches, some without, some with a small "c" and some with a large "C". i did find letters from T.C. and Brian Barker on letterhead that I am also going to post about misc items that they sent me and referring to my "pregnancy and my new son" which was born 6-17-94. Just to prove to everyone What i say is the truth. Thank you and i will post the letters with the mcmahon jersey. Lisa

mvandor

10-16-2008, 11:11 AM

lou3alex2

10-16-2008, 01:08 PM

Hello MVANDOR,
Thanks for the info. No i could not find any dates, but if you saw this jersey you would see that there is no way this is a "retail" jersey. I just relisted the jersey to start at 6:00pm pacific time. so you will be able to see all my letters and info. I did have bids and wish people knew what they were talking about before posting me as someone who might be listing fake items. some stuff i did buy but most of my stuff was given to me by the players. only one time did a player not send me my goods and that was lamar lathan with houston oilers (back then). hopefully he sees this and feels bad and contacts me. (i'm not holding my breath). thanks for the info. i truely appreciate it. Lisa Fanning

lou3alex2

10-16-2008, 01:12 PM

this jersey is not wilson it is russell

mchmaj

10-16-2008, 05:50 PM

whats link for this mcmahon jersey on ebay ??
lmk thanks :)
marcus

trsent

10-16-2008, 07:32 PM

whats link for this mcmahon jersey on ebay ??
lmk thanks :)
marcus

Here is the original listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/JIM-MCMAHON-GAME-WORN-JERSEY-PHILADELPHIA-EAGLES-SZ-42_W0QQitemZ270288087105QQihZ017QQcategoryZ86829QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I guess the new listing starts in a half hour tonight!

mvandor

10-16-2008, 08:39 PM

I've reviewed Getty images for comparison and note the following.

Because of the lack of the NFL shield on the V neck this would have to be a 1990 jersey (shield was added in 1991).

First, I could find no 1990 shots of McMahon after he was picked up by the Eagles, but 1991 shots clearly show shorter, tailored sleeves cut closer to the Eagles logo on the sleeves. Not at all like this jersey.

Further, 1990 shots of Reggie White and other Eagles with a '9' in their jersey numbers clearly show a different font (easily identified by the inside of the '9') than this jersey.

The foregoing, combined with the tagging, would lead me to believe this jersey wasn't used in a game. The only wear mentioned is the possibility of coffee stains, which certainly contributes naught to authenticity. Personally, I would want to see some style matching photographic evidence before I would feel comfortable enough to bid.

lou3alex2

10-16-2008, 10:06 PM

ok lisa here again... I did not say it has coffee stains, only that was how I described the look of the stains. I have now posted all my proof of all of my stories and as far as "lisa's belly" i gave birth to my first son on june 17, 1994. so the 93-94 basketball season i was pregnant. If this is not enough proof, i can not help anyone anymore. i would like to see other people have as much proof as i do.
very sincerely,
lisa

I've reviewed Getty images for comparison and note the following.

Because of the lack of the NFL shield on the V neck this would have to be a 1990 jersey (shield was added in 1991).

First, I could find no 1990 shots of McMahon after he was picked up by the Eagles, but 1991 shots clearly show shorter, tailored sleeves cut closer to the Eagles logo on the sleeves. Not at all like this jersey.

Further, 1990 shots of Reggie White and other Eagles with a '9' in their jersey numbers clearly show a different font (easily identified by the inside of the '9') than this jersey.

The foregoing, combined with the tagging, would lead me to believe this jersey wasn't used in a game. The only wear mentioned is the possibility of coffee stains, which certainly contributes naught to authenticity. Personally, I would want to see some style matching photographic evidence before I would feel comfortable enough to bid.

lund6771

10-16-2008, 11:23 PM

Hi Lisa...

Is there a tag in the collar of the jersey?...it looks that way from the pictures...

I have seen a lot of Russel jerseys from this era, and have never seen an additional tag in the collar

mvandor

10-16-2008, 11:32 PM

It appears all your letters refer to an autographed football or footballs, none address this jersey from what I see in your listing. I don't know who gave you the jersey or if you even specifically recall, but what you have appears to be a retail jersey to me, certainly it shows several inconsistencies which I and others have noted in this thread.

I do applaud you for the approach you've taken with your listing, you appear to be doing your best to be open and honest about the item.

commando

10-17-2008, 12:09 AM

Hi Lisa,

Please don't misunderstand what the members here are doing... I think all of us believe you are telling the truth in regards to how you received your jersey(s). What is being questioned is whether Brian Barker stretched the truth a little when he gave the McMahon jersey to you. OR, whether McMahon stretched the truth when he gave the jersey to Barker.

What we do in this forum is compare jerseys in question to photographic evidence, as well as known examples of tagging, manufacturer, applicable patches, etc. Many star players have been known to order extra jerseys to give away to fans and friends, and to trade with other players. Often, these "extra" jerseys are different (if you know what to look for) than the jerseys that are worn in games.

Once again, thanks for coming here to address those who are questioning the jersey. There are members here who literally own dozens of Eagles game-used jerseys, and know a thing or two about what to look for. In no way, shape or form is anyone here doubting how you received the item.

Regards -- Anthony

RKGIBSON

10-17-2008, 08:36 AM

I have seen, and own, several jerseys with Russell collar tags from late 80's to 91. Most were move by the team Eq staff. Examples attached.

Roger

lou3alex2

10-17-2008, 08:53 AM

Hello everyone,

Lisa here again. As far as my letters referring to this jersey, no I do not have one. The letters were for everyone to see that i am telling the truth about my store, my trading, my location, my relationships etc. We had tons of these letters from people, most of them not specifying an item. Mostly just a thank you, and almost all of these got thrown away not thinking they would be needed.
As far as this jersey goes, I can tell you there is no way this is a retail jersey, it would fit no one....unless you have a 50 inch chest and a 28 inch waist. Very funky fit. At this point I have relisted it, I have taken off the "game worn" just because as I said numerous times already, I did not see him wear it, remove it, then hand it.
I have this jersey at $20.00 starting bid, not $2,000.00, so bid if you want or don't bid. Makes no difference to me.
I truely appreciate all the comments, positive and negative. I do not have a dishonest bone in my body. I will be listing a lot of my stuff in the very near future, I have tons of basketballs, (even a dream team basketball when malone and stockton played with olympic team) footballs, shoes, jerseys.
if anyone has any questions, you can e-mail me directly at lou3alex2@aol.com .
Thanks so much, I really appreciate it.
Lisa Fanning

lou3alex2

10-17-2008, 08:59 AM

Hi Roger,
That is the exact tag on the front of the jersey. Exactly even down to the WPL 7232.
Thanks,
Lisa

I have seen, and own, several jerseys with Russell collar tags from late 80's to 91. Most were move by the team Eq staff. Examples attached.

Roger

lou3alex2

10-17-2008, 09:04 AM

Hi Roger (again),
I compared and my jersey has that same material on the top portion of the jersey as your blue one. The stitching is exactly the same. Thanks for the closeups.
lisa

I have seen, and own, several jerseys with Russell collar tags from late 80's to 91. Most were move by the team Eq staff. Examples attached.

Roger

Lokee

10-17-2008, 05:56 PM

Lisa,

If you are comparing the 2 pictures of the tags the one in your auction to Rogers they are way different. You just have to look at the one in the picture of yours and Rogers to see the difference. Rogers is in the collar yours is on the front bottom tail. His has the extra tag attatched on the bottom of the tag yours does not.

Iam sorry to say that the jersey you have is a RETAIL GAME READY jersey. There is no if ands or but's on this one. Goodluck with your auction.

lou3alex2

10-17-2008, 07:15 PM

OK LOKEE,
You don't have to be so hateful. You do not have the jersey in your hands, I do. Not all of his jerseys have the extra tag on the bottom. One of his jerseys have the same tag in the collar that mine does. And now a question to you..... Have you ever seen a RETAIL JERSEY that is a size 50 in the shoulders and a 28 in the mid section??????? If you did, then they are probably still hanging there. The top of my jersey is exactly the same as mine and all of the stitching is EXACTLY the same. Please answer me, but try not to be sooo hateful.
Thanks,
Lisa

Lisa,

If you are comparing the 2 pictures of the tags the one in your auction to Rogers they are way different. You just have to look at the one in the picture of yours and Rogers to see the difference. Rogers is in the collar yours is on the front bottom tail. His has the extra tag attatched on the bottom of the tag yours does not.

Iam sorry to say that the jersey you have is a RETAIL GAME READY jersey. There is no if ands or but's on this one. Goodluck with your auction.

lou3alex2

10-17-2008, 07:18 PM

Sorry I meant to say the top of "HIS" jersey is exactly the same as mine

OK LOKEE,
You don't have to be so hateful. You do not have the jersey in your hands, I do. Not all of his jerseys have the extra tag on the bottom. One of his jerseys have the same tag in the collar that mine does. And now a question to you..... Have you ever seen a RETAIL JERSEY that is a size 50 in the shoulders and a 28 in the mid section??????? If you did, then they are probably still hanging there. The top of my jersey is exactly the same as mine and all of the stitching is EXACTLY the same. Please answer me, but try not to be sooo hateful.
Thanks,
Lisa

whatupyos

10-17-2008, 08:28 PM

I don't think Lokee was being "hateful" at all. How was he being hateful? He was pointing out the differences trying to educate people. Thats what this forum is all about. Educating people on discrepencies.

Aaron

Lokee

10-17-2008, 08:34 PM

Iam not being hateful or trying to be in anyway at all.

Here is a picture of a 1990 eagles jersey even though it is the green version notice the year "90" stitched in felt. Yours has no year tag.

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=16390

This forum is for people to get together and talk about Game Used items among other things as well. Everyone has an opinion and in the previous posts that is what we have given.

Iam glad you put the link to the item in your auction. People can click the link and read points made by myself and other forum members and then make a rash decision.

I have nothing against you Lisa by the way AT ALL. I don't know you but you seem honest. I just wish that you had an open mind about your item and the points we have made.

Goodluck.

lou3alex2

10-17-2008, 10:50 PM

Hi Lokee,
I totally understand about opinions, facts, experts...the only thing I know is that i received this from Bryan Barker, somtime in the early 1990's. I guess the things I am having problems with is: 1. not all the jerseys have the same tags...some have dates, some don't, some have collar tags, some don't, some have the same collar tag that mine has, some don't. Also, previous post says "sometimes they remove tags and sometimes they don't. 2. The material, the thickness, the stitching, exactly the same. 3. The funky size...what's up with that. That is the one question no one has answered. Like i said in previous posts, if this were a RETAIL JERSEY they would still, all be on the rack.

I do have an open mind or I would not be bothering with this at all. Someone, maybe you Lokee, can answer these questions.

Like I said in previous posts, the only one to ever burn me was Lamar Lathan with the Houston Oilers...Bryan would never deceive Lou (my husband), nor would T.C., why should they??? They had access to a tremendous amount of memorabilia.

Did they ever sell exact duplicates (excluding tag variations) of the jerseys in RETAIL STORES???

I would sincerely appreciate answers to the above.

Thanking you in advance,
Lisa

Iam not being hateful or trying to be in anyway at all.

Here is a picture of a 1990 eagles jersey even though it is the green version notice the year "90" stitched in felt. Yours has no year tag.

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=16390

This forum is for people to get together and talk about Game Used items among other things as well. Everyone has an opinion and in the previous posts that is what we have given.

Iam glad you put the link to the item in your auction. People can click the link and read points made by myself and other forum members and then make a rash decision.

I have nothing against you Lisa by the way AT ALL. I don't know you but you seem honest. I just wish that you had an open mind about your item and the points we have made.

Goodluck.

lou3alex2

10-17-2008, 11:35 PM

Hi Aaron,
I appreciate you sticking up for your friend, but really this is between Lokee and myself. The only person I told was "hateful" was Lokee....
Were good now.
Thanks for your opinion.
Lisa

I don't think Lokee was being "hateful" at all. How was he being hateful? He was pointing out the differences trying to educate people. Thats what this forum is all about. Educating people on discrepencies.

Aaron

mvandor

10-18-2008, 12:18 AM

If Bryan Barker is the punter, he played for the Eagles in 1994, 4 years after the only possible year for this jersey (because of the lack of an NFL shield on the neckline. By that time (1994) McMahon was with the Arizona Cardinals as a backup. Perhaps Barker played a game against a McMahon team at one time, but that'd be about it. They were never on the same team together. At the time McMahon was with Philly, Barker was with Kansas City.

While tagging has variations, photos do not lie and the Eagles clearly did not seem to use jerseys with that font in 1990. McMahon threw only 9 passes in 5 games in 1990, his first year with the Eagles, as a backup to Randall Cunningham. Note the interior of the 9 is a rectangle, no rounded edges like yours. As McMahon was picked up by the Eagles after being cut by the Chargers, he only played 5 games in 1990 making it doubtful he had a second away jersey with a different 9 font - different than any pics of him or other players wearing a 9 in their numerals that season.

http://thevandors.com/jm.jpg
McMahon 1990

http://thevandors.com/jm1.jpg
Jerome Brown 1990 (see rectangular center of '9's)

If Barker is a friend, you might ask him how he came into the jersey. The cut does seem to allow for shoulder pads although 42 is pretty small. Other exemplars show larger sizes:

SIZE 48:

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=7313

lou3alex2

10-18-2008, 11:11 AM

Ok Boys, Men, Game Used Maniacs...Take your pick.

I see all your points, truly I do. It is on auction and I linked this site, so the bidders can decide.
I am going to list a bunch of "game used" stuff this weekend. So, please keep Packrat-collectibles130 on your favorite e-bay list and let me know what you think. Really, I do value all of your opinions, so please e-mail me.
I might have something you want someday, so please be nice. (i'm a girl, girls need nice)
Thanks for everything and I will check back often.
Lisa Fanning AKA Momma Lisa

If Bryan Barker is the punter, he played for the Eagles in 1994, 4 years after the only possible year for this jersey (because of the lack of an NFL shield on the neckline. By that time (1994) McMahon was with the Arizona Cardinals as a backup. Perhaps Barker played a game against a McMahon team at one time, but that'd be about it. They were never on the same team together. At the time McMahon was with Philly, Barker was with Kansas City.

While tagging has variations, photos do not lie and the Eagles clearly did not seem to use jerseys with that font in 1990. McMahon threw only 9 passes in 5 games in 1990, his first year with the Eagles, as a backup to Randall Cunningham. Note the interior of the 9 is a rectangle, no rounded edges like yours. As McMahon was picked up by the Eagles after being cut by the Chargers, he only played 5 games in 1990 making it doubtful he had a second away jersey with a different 9 font - different than any pics of him or other players wearing a 9 in their numerals that season.

http://thevandors.com/jm.jpg
McMahon 1990

http://thevandors.com/jm1.jpg
Jerome Brown 1990 (see rectangular center of '9's)

If Barker is a friend, you might ask him how he came into the jersey. The cut does seem to allow for shoulder pads although 42 is pretty small. Other exemplars show larger sizes:

SIZE 48:

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=7313

34swtns

10-18-2008, 06:30 PM

Lisa, don't sweat it, it's all good. Nothing but love for you here.

We've all started out buying and selling items that weren't what they were touted to be, simply as a result of inexperience. It's a learning process no matter what area of interest you delve into that's unfamiliar to you. Places like this can serve as a sounding board/education center for those interested in learning the characteristics of game-used items that help to either legitimize or discredit those items. Some of the "teachers" here have a little more tact than others but overall it's a good community. It's always a good idea to post items of question here first before posting them for sale to potentially spare yourself the possibility of a verbal spanking by those who would rather berate than educate.
Feel free to post any items you may have questions about and the members here will be happy to offer honest opinions and insight.
That's what we're here for.

lou3alex2

10-19-2008, 01:13 PM

Hello SWTNS (that must stand for sweetness) because you are,
Thanks for the kind words. I am listing lots of autographed items between last night and today. take a look & e-mail lou3alex2@aol.com and let me know what you think. packrat-collectibles130
Thanks so much,
Lisa

otismalibu

10-19-2008, 03:48 PM

I think we have a Love Connection.

We'll be back in Two & Two.

:)

kingjammy24

10-19-2008, 05:45 PM

I think we have a Love Connection.

We'll be back in Two & Two.

:)

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9371/sillyki5.jpg

rudy.

cigarman44

10-19-2008, 06:44 PM

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9371/sillyki5.jpg

rudy.

Priceless :D

lou3alex2

10-19-2008, 10:10 PM

Really, quite funny boys. I was right when i called you "BOYS" a few days ago. I have been laughing M A O. Truly very funny and i mean that. I have two boys that do this stuff on their my space. They are probably your age, or maybe older, who knows.

You have my jersey up there, (and by the way, it is a '90) so why didn't you put my picture in there also. it's on my ebay "ME" page.

Thanks for the funny.
Lisa

OOHHH, by the way my boys are 13 and 14.

HAGN

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9371/sillyki5.jpg

rudy.

34swtns

10-19-2008, 10:36 PM

OK, even I thought that was funny!

Rudy, you've gotta get out of the basement and into the light sometime.
Seriously, bro, WAY too much time on your hands! ;)

34swtns

10-19-2008, 10:42 PM

Hey, it's all good. I'm in a great mood...... the Bears won, the Bucs absolutely destroyed the Seahawks and.............

THE RAYS JUST WON THE SERIES !!!!!!!!

trsent

10-20-2008, 04:23 AM

[quote=34swtns;103988]Hey, it's all good. I'm in a great mood...... the Bears won, the Bucs absolutely destroyed the Seahawks and.............
[quote]

Did you notice the Bucs didn't destroy anyone?

The Seahawks covered the 10.5 spread, thank you very much!

34swtns

10-20-2008, 06:19 AM

trsent

10-20-2008, 08:07 AM

Maybe you were watching a different game than I was.

The Bucs absolutely dismantled the Seahawks for 4 quarters except for the "gimme" TD at the end of the 4th. The few humilliations the Bucs didn't hand them were handed to the Seahawks by themselves. Absolutely embarrassing play from beginning to end.

Stick a fork in those birds.......the Seahawks are DONE for the year.

I could care less about either team - But at the end of the day I won money because The Bucs could only beat The Seahawks by 10 points when they were laying 10.5.

You can talk about a junk touchdown at the end of the game, but if you cannot cover the spread then you cannot use the adjective "Destroyed".