Yet another Mets jersey with problems...

[TNTtoys]

Game used 2000 Rey Ordonez jersey on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rey-Ordonez-METS-Game-used-2000-Jersey-Nr_W0QQitemZ180290136559QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item18 0290136559&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

This one appears to be one of the many correctly tagged Rawlings team issued blanks from the 2000-2001 era. We have seen many of these later customized as star players like Mike Piazza, John Franco, Al Leiter, etc. The tipoff is usually a "wrong size" (e.g. Piazza jerseys in size 42). This one is no exception, as Ordonez was not a size 40.
The even bigger eyesore here is the NOB, because it would be the only Ordonez jersey of this era I have ever seen that is missing the "~" above the N in his last name -- which of course would be a detail that an after-market customizer would not concern himself with.

I have contacted the seller to inform him of this discrepancy, and he did reply promptly; however, days have gone by with no action (amendment to auction description, etc.) leading me to believe that he's just going to let it ride, hoping that it gets snatched up by someone unknowing.

By the way, the description notes that the jersey has already sold but the high bidder did not pay for it. Perhaps the high bidder realized that it is "not as described" before paying?

[cbb5]

Another tip off is the cut size tag. I assume they were cut by the clubhouse staff before unloading so as to tell. It's on every one that I've ever seen.

[Metsfan808]

Here's another problem. In the 2000 season every jersey was customized by Stitches. (Now Majestic does most of them) Stitches does not sew the numbers the way they have been sewn on that jersey. That jersey has every layer sewn on through the jersey. Stitches sews the numbers together and then sews them on the jersey. There shold only be one full line of sewing white or orange depending on the jersey and a lot of small lines of stitcheing where the shadow is in orange or black depending on the jersey. That jersey was sewn by someone other than Stitches and therefore could never have been worn in a game by Ordonez.

[metsbats]

Nick,

This is the same seller who listed the issued gift Strawberry 86 reunion jersey as "game used". After I informed him he ended the listing but then told me not to email him anymore.

David

[Swoboda4]

Metsfan808-this is important, how certain are you that Stitches doesn't double sew the numbers. I brought two jerseys to Stitches once and they couldn't gaurantee it was used but they were certain they made it. They had a formula for the distance between the bottom of the letter to the top of the number on the back. Along with a lady(from stitches) that sewed the 9-11-01 embroidery on the sleeve who said that was defintely her work-that jersey was double stitched on the numbers. The black was stitched and then the blue.

[Metsfan808]

Metsfan808-this is important, how certain are you that Stitches doesn't double sew the numbers. I brought two jerseys to Stitches once and they couldn't gaurantee it was used but they were certain they made it. They had a formula for the distance between the bottom of the letter to the top of the number on the back. Along with a lady(from stitches) that sewed the 9-11-01 embroidery on the sleeve who said that was defintely her work-that jersey was double stitched on the numbers. The black was stitched and then the blue.

Stitches heat presses all their numbers together and then sews the blue layer to the bottom layer. When they sew it on their should only be one outline of the number and then a stitch line where the drop shadow is like this:
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/metsfan808/IMG_1184.jpg

If you look at that jersey every layer of the tackle twill looks like it is sewn on to the jersey

[Swoboda4]

O.K. Mine does have the stitching like you said. I thought you meant heat pressed and one stitching visible,but yes, mine has two sets of stitching like yours. Let me show you, as mine is from the 2000 season in question. I have questions at the end of the photos,if you will.
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/ventura3.jpg?t=1221935649
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/venturasept1.jpg?t=1221935709
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/venturasept.jpg?t=1221935765
I purchased this from B+E Collectibles. As soon as I got it I realized,and I mentioned this before,that the "tails" of the jersey were cut off and the jersey bottom sewn straight across. I believe I've seen this on another Ventura but has anyone else? Does anyone know Ventura size during this period?

[dcrules01]

I know if I am correct there was just one size of game issued blanks in 2001 size 44.Very nice Swoboda you now have 3 jerseys in your collection that I would kill for ..Here is the 2001 this jersey was offered to me as a Gamer but the C patch is missing and another red flag was the size.Metsfan had a Alfonzo 01 same size done at Stitches for his collection with the 9-11-01 embroidery.Here are photos of the Franco maybe he will post pics of his Alfonzo.Maybe Nick can chime in..
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k195/metsjerseys/Information/2001FrancoIssued.jpg

[metsbats]

Scott,

I had a 2003 Franco with the "C" patch. It was a legit jersey and sized 44.

-David

[dcrules01]

No the jersey that was offered to me was missing the C patch..but it had the 9-11-01.Its a long story ill explain but not on the board....;)

As far as the Ventura a found a site and the site is offering a Game Issued Yankees 2002 sz 48 2+ length...

I did a search on the form Swoboda funny thing is when you purchased that jersey I had a question about that same jersey...

[metsbats]

No the jersey that was offered to me was missing the C patch..but it had the 9-11-01.Its a long story ill explain but not on the board....;)

As far as the Ventura a found a site and the site is offering a Game Issued Yankees 2002 sz 48 2+ length...

I did a search on the form Swoboda funny thing is when you purchased that jersey I had a question about that same jersey...


I see Scott. The "C" patch missing is definitely a red flag. However you mention that the another red flag was the size. Franco did wear 44 was all i was saying.

Regards
-David

[Metsfan808]

That Franco jersey was customized by Stitches for some guy in NC. He bought them on eBay from a guy selling these sent them to Stitches and then sold them on eBay. I picked one up and I had it made into an Alfonzo. If you look at it it is the same jersey, same size.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/metsfan808/My%20Jerseys/Game%20Worn%20Team%20Issued/Alfonzo1.jpghttp://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/metsfan808/My%20Jerseys/Game%20Worn%20Team%20Issued/Alfonzo2.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/metsfan808/My%20Jerseys/Game%20Worn%20Team%20Issued/Alfonzo3.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/metsfan808/My%20Jerseys/Game%20Worn%20Team%20Issued/Alfonzo6.jpg

[dcrules01]

I see Scott. The "C" patch missing is definitely a red flag. However you mention that the another red flag was the size. Franco did wear 44 was all i was saying.

Regards
-David

Wow a 44 that seems small I did not know that..

[Swoboda4]

So,B+E told you Ventura preferred his jersey shortened. I hope so. Because next Saturday I'm going to show the jersey to Ventura and I better hear the same. Just in case,anyone have directions for Thornwood,N.Y.?
http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-15972094.jpg?size=67&uid={a447d0d1-b6f2-481e-b533-877396ead569}

[dcrules01]

I asked the question on the form..I was relatively new to the hobby..I love that jersey though..Ill keep searching tonight maybe ill find something to be more help..

[Metsfan808]

Wow a 44 that seems small I did not know that..

The 44 is really small, and when you see Franco in the pics from 2001 his jersey is always baggy, I know that he is small, but I did not know he was that small.

[metsbats]

Hold on (i may have had a senior moment:D ). Let me check my records it could have been a 46. Could have been thinking Glavine and not Franco.

I'll get back to you guys.

-David

[metsbats]

I mis-spoke.

The 2003 Franco I had was a black alternative home with "C" and size 46!

Sorry about the confusion.

-David

[dcrules01]

Thanks for the info...:)

[TNTtoys]

Maybe Nick can chime in..


I would but I don't think I can add anything new to this one. I think this group covered it all pretty well from the sizes of the jerseys to the wrong lettering to the wrong method of sewing on the letters to the cut tags.
Bottom line... if you're in the market for a 2000 or 2001 Mets jersey, especially a Rawlings one, do your homework!!!

Just my observation, but it's been a pretty bad couple of weeks for Mets jerseys... lots of flawed items out there from multiple years, being offered from multiple sellers. I've been trying to document them when I come across them (after emailing the seller first).

[flaco1801]

i sent that thread to a gal i knew who used to work for stiches.... this is her reply......
that jersey is totally bogus!! i can attest to the fact that stitches DOES sew its numbers together first, and then sews that on as one piece. it should only have one line of stitching, the color thread dependent upon the color of the jersey. if it's the home jersey with pinstripes, its orange on blue numbers, and hence one line of blue thread on the jersey. whatever the bottom layer of color is on the number should be the color sewn in on the jersey. AND FURTHERMORE, there is no possible way that on the name ordonez the tilde would be missing over the n! absolutely no way, bc i remember what a total pain in the ass is is to sew that on bc it's so small and you have to be careful turning the jersey underneath the machine. double colored stitching of an entire number is a sign of imitation and/or factory stitching. there should only be two colors if there is a shadow, as in the photo below. on the pinstriped jersey there should be only one color, not 2, as shown on the ebay page. on the pinstripe, there should be orange stitching all the way around, and the black shadow stitching-- no blue. the blue number is heat pressed onto the orange and then stitched in blue. the entire piece is then stitched on in orange, hiding any blue thread between the orange number backing and the actual shirt, and trimmed in the black for the shadow. (pain in the ass to sew bc you have to change thread. sometimes 2 people will work on one set of shirts-- one person sews only orange, and one person sews only black, to avoid having to rethread your machine)

[Swoboda4]

flaco1801-what jersey was she refering to when she says,..:There should be only two colors if there is a shadow,as in the photo below"

[flaco1801]

dunno swoboda but i only sent her the first page of this thread so it has to be the ventura or the black shirt....

[Swoboda4]

Im trying to understand her response. But what I see is like below. The blue is heat pressed to the orange. And then both orange and black sewn onto the jersey,especially whichever portion is outer-which has to be sewn in its respective color. By the way I brought this jersey also to " "Stitches" and there was a kid with a small ruler in his back pocket along with an older lady who did the 9-11-01 embroidery who said they did this jersey.
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/burnitz20081.jpg?t=1222056627
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/burnitz2008e.jpg?t=1222056677
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/burnitz2008a.jpg?t=1222056822
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/burnitz2008b.jpg?t=1222056989
For there to be only one color underneath the outer portion HAS to be ONE color like below:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/abba1.jpg?t=1222057313
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/abba2.jpg?t=1222057354

[flaco1801]

swoboda, i sent her ur last post with the 2 pics this is what she said.........those are both authentic. you can tell by the color of thread used to stitch into the jersey. there should not be blue on either of these and there isn't. the blue is stitiched into the orange fabric piece, and the orange layer is stitched onto the jersey, hence the orange thread showing and the blue unseen. also, the obnoxious pain in the ass to stitch black shadow is correct....

[TNTtoys]

Back to the topic at hand.

The bad Ordonez jersey auction has been ended early and then relisted with the reason of "winning bidder did not pay." Ummmm this makes no sense whatsoever. If an auction is ended early, there is no winning bidder let alone the item being paid for...

Possibly done because a number of us had the jersey in our watch lists and the seller is trying to make us believe that he ended the auction based on our feedback?

[dcrules01]

Saw that Nick some people never learn ..Here is Majestics stitching on my Pelfrey authentic..Very sloppy notice all the lose threads and the orange white and blue..
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k195/metsjerseys/Information/Bucsissued010.jpg

[MRMusial]

The wealth of knowledge on this forum never ceases to amaze me. Thanks guys...

[Metsfan808]

Saw that Nick some people never learn ..Here is Majestics stitching on my Pelfrey authentic..Very sloppy notice all the lose threads and the orange white and blue..


The Santana and Beltran jerseys I won from the NY Lottery came like that also.

[Swoboda4]

Got back from the Ventura signing. I'll do a thread on my G/U items looked at by him today with mini (and I mean mini) interview, but he answered the all important question (and confirms B+E Collectibles assertion). He does have his jersey shortened if too long!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/aventura5-2.jpg?t=1222550799
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/aventura6.jpg?t=1222550941