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View Full Version : GFC 1996 All Star Michael Jordan Jersey - Size 46 or Size 48 Jersey???



jordan23collectibles
08-16-2008, 12:26 PM
Grey Flannel is auctioning off this 1996 All Star Michael Jordan Jersey, Size 48 complete with shorts size 36

http://greyflannelauctions.com/LotDetail3.aspx?lotid=18692

I have been closely watching this jersey for quite some time now and I own a size 46 (pic attached) which was graded by MEARS as A5, however, I have noticed that most of the GU jerseys that have been won on major auctions houses that Jordan supposedly worn were size 46 and the shorts were a size 38.

GFC also offers another GU jersey by Jordan, a 1994-95 # 45 Chicago Bulls jersey that is a size 46.
http://greyflannelauctions.com/LotDetail3.aspx?lotid=18625

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was just curious if Jordan ever wore a size 48 at all during the 1990-1997 season when Champion used to manufacture uniforms for the Bulls.

The size 46 1996 All Star Michael Jordan Jersey was sold on the following auctions:

American Memorabilia Auction dated October 21, 2004, Lot 47 and sold for $5,845.00 - Size 46
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=7521


Hunt Auctions dated August 19-20, 2005, Lot 187A and sold for $3,200.00 - Size 46
http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=23&lot_num=187&lot_qual=a


SCP Auctions dated June 24, 2006, Lot 141, Sale # N08178 and sold for $13,200.00 - Size 46 (I presume this is the same jersey that was sold at the Hunt Auctions with a double signature)

Vintage Authentics - (Running to Greatness Auction) dated July 13, 2006, Lot 432 and sold for $5,500.00 - Size 46 (I presume this is the same jersey that was sold at the AMI auctions, no signature) - I have the catalog for this auction.

The big question is did Jordan wear a Size 46 or 48 Jersey and a Size 36 or 38 shorts during the 1996 All Star Games?

Thanks a lot...

jordan23collectibles

designedexclusively
08-16-2008, 10:13 PM
I've never heard of jordan wearing any champion jersey in anything other then his issued size from 90-97 which was 46 plus 3, I think his shorts were always 36.

Not sure what to make of that 48.

lund6771
08-16-2008, 11:01 PM
I think a bigger question might be what the odds are that all of these auctioned off were actually ever worn

RKGIBSON
08-17-2008, 12:10 AM
I am no Jordan expert but I did own a 97/98 uniform with a team letter. The Nike jersey was a size 50 +2". The Nike shorts were a size 42 +2" inseam. I do have pictures of the tagging.

Roger

jordan23collectibles
08-17-2008, 06:35 AM
I think a bigger question might be what the odds are that all of these auctioned off were actually ever worn

It is very hard to prove which jersey is the real thing, however, how many were used in the pictorial prior to the game and how many were used in the game?

The only person that can answer that will be Jordan himself.

The question being asked in this forum is if he wore a size 46 or a size 48?

Thanks for your input and to the other members who are reading this thread.

jordan23collectibles
08-17-2008, 06:40 AM
I am no Jordan expert but I did own a 97/98 uniform with a team letter. The Nike jersey was a size 50 +2". The Nike shorts were a size 42 +2" inseam. I do have pictures of the tagging.

Roger

Roger,
Thanks for the input, I also have a Chicago Bulls Champion 93-94 jersey issued for MJ that was donated to the Chicago White Sox. This has a CWS LOA with his old signature and this is a size 46. This was during his 1st retirement when he ventured into baseball.
I am just trying to find out if MJ ever wore a size 48 in the 1990-97 season.
Theo

RKGIBSON
08-17-2008, 09:15 AM
For whatever it is worth, in the "Collecting Micheal Jordan Memorabilia" book, they have a list of jersey/year/sizes and some pictures. It stops at 97 with sizes. It has a picture of a 96 All Stars jersey that is Champion and a size 46+3. Others are as follows:
84-5 Rawlings 42
86-7 Sand Knit 44+3
88-8 Sand Knit 44+2
89-90 Sand Knit 44+2
90-1 Champion 44+2
91 All Star Champion 44+3
94 All Star Champion 46+3
95-6 Champion 46+3
96-7 Champion 46+3

Roger

lund6771
08-17-2008, 09:42 AM
Just like Roger's...I also haved a 97 that I bought from the Bulls that is a size 50...but that is a Nike

I also remember being at one of the first BullsFests in 92 where they had an awesome home white with great wear....that jersey was a 46

jordan23collectibles
08-24-2008, 06:53 PM
I just recently joined MEARS as a member and have asked Troy Kinunen if they have authenticated a size 48 Jordan Jersey in the past. The response I received was that all the jerseys issued with a valid LOO in their database were all size 46. So where did this size 48 come from?

jordan23collectibles
08-26-2008, 06:46 PM
As per the latest thread on GU Forum the lot was pulled out by Grey Flannel.

However, I had the privelege to obtain this link explaining the differences between the 1996 All Star jersey offered by Grey Flannel versus the actual GU jersey that MJ wore in the 1996 All Star games.

This review was meant to educate others and not make a mockery of any auction house.

http://www.rareair23.com/jordangameuseduniforms.html

Regards,

jordan23collectibles

mb23
08-27-2008, 04:46 PM
It was a shame that this lot even passed any of the GF people without anyone noticing that the shoes themselves were not even game issued let alone game worn. The proper coding for any game issued shoes for Mike should always follow a certain date or should have a Sample Ftps on the tag and this pair being a special make-up for him to wear that weekend the tag was handtyped size and serial and also had a stitched 23 on the back heel instead of the normal etched on.

Thanks to that Rairair23 and the great job done on helping all of us with Michael and his signature, that website has been a great asset to me and also a great read with tons of knowledge.Thank you!

mmonte4
08-27-2008, 11:57 PM
"this pair being a special make-up for him to wear that weekend the tag was handtyped size and serial and also had a stitched 23 on the back heel instead of the normal etched on"


Please provide your source for this information.

mb23
08-28-2008, 12:57 PM
"this pair being a special make-up for him to wear that weekend the tag was handtyped size and serial and also had a stitched 23 on the back heel instead of the normal etched on"


Please provide your source for this information.

My sourse for this is Myself being that i own a 1996 Allstar Issued Air Jordan XI.

(here is a picture of my inside tag which reads 960112 FTPS handtyped)..there is also practice pairs of these shoes worn throughout the season which also had different coding. the practice coding were not handtyped and did not have the stitched 23 on back heel.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/IMG_2349.jpg

(here is a picture of the stitched 23 on back heel)..hope this helps.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/IMG_2350.jpg

Regards
Mike

mmonte4
08-28-2008, 02:07 PM
what is your provenance? Do you own only one shoe or both pairs? i have never seen a photomatch of the stitching.

mb23
08-28-2008, 03:16 PM
I do not have any provance I have been collecting Jordan for some time and mainly game used sneakers..Unfortunatly in our hobby there aren't many reference sites to see actual tags and associated coding with MJ game worn sneakers but they always have a special coding and with a little hard work and some searching you can find them. I do know there is a gentleman on this board who owns the 1994 Air Jordan game issued cleat who can show you the same exact tagging and coding handtyped only difference being the year. Almost every pair that is made up with differnces from the regular production of that same model line has handtyped coding.

Also my pair, the front of each shoe is pointed instead of squared as in regular production of that shoe.

i will include a few photos of some tagging i have saved over the years and a link to a similar model as mine but this model was made in 1995 for the movie space jam.


1996 Air Jordan XI (spacejam movie) made in late 95, (95011 ftps) also you can see here the pointed toebox that i was refering to on my pair.
http://www.jordanextreme.com/nikegallery/AJ11/aj11-1996SpaceJams/aj11-1996Spacejams.htm

1994 Air Jordan IX Cleat Game issued and used (94011 ftps)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/compton_cal_connection-img562x600-1.jpg

1992 Air Jordan VII Game issued (92011 ftps)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/110e_1.jpg

As you can see the coding always follows the year before just replacing the first 2 #'s on a year to year basis

i hope this helps a bit and if i can help more and you have any questions please pm me and i will gladly try to hel.

Thank You
Mike

mb23
08-28-2008, 03:47 PM
Hello again, I tried searching for a good photomatch of the back part of his shoes to show the stitched 23 during that game, but i can not find 1 anywhere. I have included a picture of the front view and you can see that the blue part of the sole which comes up on to the toebox is almost more ponited in front unlike the general release model or the practice worn sample (not handtyped)..

here is the getty image from the game
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/72354953.jpg

and here is a normal sample tagged pair front and tag (not my picture listing is on ebay)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/36ef_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/5775_1.jpg

This pair is being auctioned now on ebay as game issued.

mmonte4
08-28-2008, 04:24 PM
it's an interesting topic. from what i've gathered, only the earliest versions of the Air Jordan XI (made for use by MJ) are hand typed and stitched. These are the versions of spring/summer 1995. Every game used XI i've ever seen worn during the 1995-96 season is tagged Sample FTPS, is not hand typed, and has the etched 23 on back. I think one can assume the stitched and handtyped versions to be the earliest prototypes.

Please provide evidence on the "practice" XI All Stars colorway. Leland's auctioned a pair off a few years ago - size 13 and no sample codes listed. I believe Heritage auctions did as well. Grey flannel just tried to pass retail as game used. Let's get to the bottom of this.

mb23
08-28-2008, 04:47 PM
I believe your are correct because i also have game issued Black Red XI's and they are sz 13 sample ftps tagged not handtyped and I have a Concord XI also the same way but sz 13.5 sample ftps not handtyped and both of those are from late 1996 but there is early pairs of the White Black Concords which are stitched and pointed in the front. I guess Nike does some weird stuff.

The only reason i believe the Carolina Blue sample pairs that are around and that are not handtyped are practice used, is because what else would they have been used for? I clearly can tell that the fronts of the actual pair worn during the All Star game are pointed unlike the regular sample pairs i see.

Vintage Authentics also had a pair on auction a few years back that was stated to be practice worn and also had that sample tag not handtyped.

I wish i can find some better pictures from the All Star game to get a better look at the backs but from all the pictures i see where i can see the fronts really appear to be not as squared as the normal pairs.

mmonte4
08-28-2008, 05:47 PM
please post your pictures of the Blk/Red XI's. I have never seen them sample tagged in size 13, only 13.5

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2008/1584.html

I disagree with the example of the toe...i see no evidence that the toe is different in the getty images pic...the sample shoes are pictured at a different angle, so it is really tough to tell.

apparently nike made multiple samples of the XI all star colorway - at least 2. The only sample tagged versions of the XI All Star Colorway I have seen are yours and the shoes listed on ebay.

Here is another example, but they are size 13 and we don't know if they are sample tagged. I assume they are not because they sold for so low:
http://www.lelands.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=62495

Member jordan23collectibles on this forum also has a pair of the All Star colorway with a letter from the Bulls. I don't know if they are sample tagged.

Jordan wore the All Star colorway in Feb 1996, so I would infer that he wore the Sample Tagged FTPS in size 13.5 because all of the other examples we see from that time period (XI White/Black) are also size 13.5 and tagged Sample FTPS. There is no reason to think he would we the earliest of prototypes in the Feb 1996.

33bird
08-28-2008, 06:40 PM
Yea, I'm a little leery to accept anybody's opinion as "Gospel" when it comes to Jordan game used shoes. If you look at various posts over the last year or so, opinions vary a lot. Some have said he wore size 13 until late in his career, when he changed to 13.5. Did his feet get bigger or did the shoe change? Just recently we were told SAMPLE didn't appear on his shoes until his Wizards years, maybe his last season with the Bulls, but very rarely. Now we're being told basically only SAMPLE FTPS shoes in 1995-96 were game used. Which I don't agree with. There use to be a post on here that had every shoe size listed for every year and I'm pretty sure 1995-96 was listed as size 13 or maybe it was both sizes. Now someone says they think his Jordan shoes were definately worn, at least in practice, because the toe is pointed as on Getty. I don't see that either. Somebody else said they saw Jordans garage door open during his playing days and it was FULL of shoeboxes! I think that might be the best evidence right there. I'm serious. I guess it's common knowledge that he used a different pair of shoes every game. That's 82 games. Preseason games? Another 15. Playoffs-for the Bulls another 20 or so. That's over 100 right there. Then what about practice? There's a bunch more. So were talking probably around 200 pair a season, maybe, that he'd put on and wore in practice and/or games. Think every single pair was the same size and tagged exactly the same over the course of a long season? Doubt it. Do we have his ordering records like we do with game used bats? No. So everything is opinion. If he wore size 13s for most of his career, would it be so strange that we wore some in his later years too if they fit better? I've actually read in one of his books that one foot was size 13 and one was size 13.5-and he would wear those different sizes together. Maybe that's the key. Some styles fit better in size 13 and some didn't, so he wore 13.5s. Anyway, all I'm saying is until Nike gives us all his ordering records, don't go sell your stuff. Everything is all still kindof a guessing game when it comes to Mike's shoes. Keep telling us what you know but don't tell us it's the gospel truth unless it's something legit, like Mike's Nike ordering records. If it's just some guys opinion, state it as that.

jordan23collectibles
08-28-2008, 06:42 PM
To answer your question if my pair of All Star colorway is sample tagged. The answer is yes and the shoes are size 13.5 (pic attached)

mmonte4
08-28-2008, 06:52 PM
I disagree with Bird33 in regard to the 95-96 season and the Air Jordan XI. I think it is common knowledge among serious collectors that during that season Jordan wore size 13.5 and all of our legit examples of game used XIs are Sample FTPS.

Jordan23Collectibles, yours are the shoes from CharitableBulls, correct?

mb23
08-28-2008, 06:57 PM
Ok let me try and shed some more light on this topic.. if you look at the auctioned pair on lelands it says practice worn and I clearly remember that auction, it was the regular sample ftps tag. There is also another site called MJAUTHENTIC that has another practice worn pair also sample tagged the regular way and if i remember correctly vintage Authentics also auctiond the same practice pair.

On to the picture of Mike in the allstar game i've done some cropping and zooming and took a few more pictures of my own shoes compared to a regular tagged pair.here are some examples

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/croppedxi.jpg
if you look at the right shoe which is circled you can clearly see that the blue peice that comes up the front is almost off ceneterd to 1 side and a little lupsided to one side if you look straight up the shoe and try to allign it with the laces you can see it is not centered.

(here is a pic from my personal collection of Mike's shoes)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/IMG_2351.jpg
the shoe on the left is my handtyped sample pair with the smaller front.
the shoe on the right is a normal sample pair with the squared, centered front sole.

Back to my Black Red pair i just looked at that to and you will have to excuse me sometimes i forget it is a sz 13.5
here are a few pictures of them the box and the tag.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/1996AirJordanXIBredMJPE3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/IMG_2353.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/1996AirJordanXIBredMJPEtag.jpg

Now as far as him switching to sz 13.5 during the later part of the season is also false because i also i know for a fact that his low cut black XI worn for 2 games against the knicks and 1 game in orlando in the playoffs were in fact a sz 13. with the pointed front also and a handtyped tag as well and again making them a special make up unlike the released version of that low cut the sides on his were full leather instead of preferated like on the released.( i do have pictures of all of these examples but the shoes are not mine and i do not like to post pictures that do not belong to me i will first ask for premmision from the owner.)

mb23
08-28-2008, 07:04 PM
Sorry guys i forgot to resize the Mike image here ya go!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/mrmar23/croppedxiresize.jpg

mmonte4
08-28-2008, 07:12 PM
good stuff. i meant size 13.5 in regard to the Patent Leather XIs worn during the 95-96 season.

MJAuthentics.com had the game worn DT jersey I believe. He also had the Concords and All Star XIs. I believe that his XI all stars came with the CharitableBulls letter and are now owned by Jordan23Collectibles. Correct?

Now, lets get a pic of the toe from Jordan23Collectibles All Star colorway so we can compare.

mb23
08-28-2008, 07:19 PM
I do not know who owns them, but if you look at MJAuthentic it does say practice worn.

And the toe on his (Jordan23Collectibles) if im not mistaken should be squared off just like my non handtyped pair.

33bird
08-28-2008, 07:22 PM
I'd love to have those black/red pair of XI. Any chance you'd sell em? I got the white pair and I'd like to have black.
Greg

mmonte4
08-28-2008, 07:23 PM
I am thinking of a different website that no longer exists. It was a guy from Chicago...he wanted $75k for his DT jersey...it ended up selling for $38k at auction.

I am still not sold on the toe, especially after seeing the close up pic. Take a look at the other left shoe - looks normal. I think it may simply be the angle.

I assume the XI side by side is not a Sample, but a retail shoe. Lets get a pic of Jordan23Collectibles shoe and compare.

mb23
08-28-2008, 07:33 PM
It is indeed a sample pair brand new and im just to lazy to take the camera out again and if im correct i have spoke to Jordan23Collectibles and he has seen my pair as well as i have seen his and his fronts are squared

If you look at the circled picture example there is more room on the right bottom of that sole then the left side before the blue sole starts to come up the toe, and as the sole starts to come up that right side it is more straight up then the other side,,,,does that make any sense?...LOL even at the top you can tell it is not stright across it is almost curved.

mb23
08-28-2008, 07:35 PM
Hey Greg sorry there not for sale. (that would break up my Almost complete XI set) I can't do that...LOL

mmonte4
08-28-2008, 07:38 PM
MB23...brand new, unworn sample All Star XIs? Any provenance? How did you get these?

mb23
08-28-2008, 07:44 PM
Yes they are brand new just like my Black Red XI, and its really not that hard to come by like i stated i believe that this particular pair (Carolina Blue) were made for practice wear therefore there is stock out there and generally if a buy a brand new pair i really dont need or want provence because the pair is new and unused and it already has what i need on the tag "SAMPLE"

DRILLINDK
08-28-2008, 08:11 PM
Great discussion guys. Theo, still love that Jersey & Shoes.

jordan23collectibles
08-28-2008, 08:46 PM
Rick,
Thanks for the compliment.
To all the readers/contributors of this thread, thank you for the good discussions on the jersey, the shoes and anything related to the 1996 All Star game.

mmonte4
08-29-2008, 10:49 AM
MB23, do you only have the right stitched All Star shoe or the pair? How long ago did you acquire it?

mb23
08-29-2008, 03:27 PM
Only a right as of now, still hoping for that left to come my way! I havent had it for long.

jordan23collectibles
01-24-2009, 08:30 PM
I dcided to revive this thread since there has been two (2) 1996 All Star Michael Jordan Jersey with size 46+3 that has been posted on E-Bay,

The 1st one was won by 23raisons for $1825 (E-Bay Item ID 220343155279)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220343155279&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR4 0%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D220343155279%26_fvi%3D1

This can also be seen on 23raisons website (see link below)

http://23raisons.free.fr/jersey.html


The 2nd one is currently being auctioned off and is claimed to be GAME WORN/ISSUED (Michael Jordan Signed Game Worn Issue All Star Jersey) - Ebay Item ID 150322888807

http://cgi.ebay.com/Michael-Jordan-Signed-Game-Worn-Issue-All-Star-Jersey_W0QQitemZ150322888807QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item150322888807&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

The 2nd jersey being auctioned off on E-Bay was also claimed to be displayed in the Museum of Science and industry which was the same claim by Grey Flannel for the size 48+3 that they pulled out of their auction.

The link below shows the findings of rareair23.com that shows the excerpts of the above claim.

http://www.rareair23.com/jordangameuseduniforms.html

According to my source, a very well known auction house had Michael's hallowed 96 uniform up on the auction block. The uniform comes with a impeccable letter of provenance from the Basketball Hall of Fame stating how it was on "LOAN" and displayed during their 1996 Enshrinement weekend. Michael Jordan Signed Game Worn Issue All Star Jersey

escobar1681
03-30-2009, 05:41 PM
Really a good discussion. I am fond of finding quality information like this - always. Currently there was a OG concord XI SAMPLE FTPS pair on ebay.