Mastro - 2006 Shaquille O'Neal Finals jersey

[kingjammy24]

"Shaquille O'Neal 2005-06 World Champions Miami Heat Game Worn NBA Finals Road Jersey"

Lot #889

http://www.mastroauctions.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=85442&LastLotListing=Lot%20Search%20List&CurrentRow=1

"The jersey, worn in Game 2 at Dallas, shows appropriate light use. Graded A-5 by MEARS. LOA from Mastro Auctions."

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8757/shaqiy7.jpg

getty is replete with images of o'neal from game 2 of the '06 finals. none of the images show the front number placement, patch placement, or nob arch seen on the mastro jersey.

rudy.

[yanks12025]

These last couple of jerseys has not made Mears look good. They messed up this one and also that Albert Pujols one acouple of weeks ago. Did you send mastro anything.

[trsent]

These last couple of jerseys has not made Mears look good. They messed up this one and also that Albert Pujols one acouple of weeks ago. Did you send mastro anything.

I would like to see the MEARS letter before you state that they don't look good. They may have authenticated the jersey as Game Used from that season and didn't attributed it to that game.

[David]

As Trsent said, you have to read the MEARS LOO before you know what it claims. in particular as they graded the jersey A5 not A10.

[kingjammy24]

dave grob responds:

----------------------------------------------------------
I have been asked about the Shaquille O’Neal jersey currently offered in Mastro’s Auction. The jersey was graded as an A5. Comments for this jersey per the letter for Cert # 304225 are as follows:

Comments:
The Heat wore black road jerseys in Game 2 of the NBA finals. NBA finals patch has been reattached. Jersey style photo matched -- Getty Images #71224229 and #71224232.

MEARS made NO definitive claim or attribution that this shirt was worn during Game 2 of the finals. Collectors are also reminded that the definition for jerseys graded A5 includes this language:

“that was manufactured for player use or as an extra for a team or player, or one that may have been made available for retail sale or promotion.”

Dave Grob
----------------------------------------------------------------

the mears letter simply stated that the heat wore the black style jerseys in game 2. apparently mastro then took that comment and stated that o'neal wore this particular jersey in game 2.

that's not the only disconcerting issue however. the mears letter also mentions the fact that the patch has been reattached. clearly it's a pertinent piece of information that mastro seems to have omitted from the description.

i don't think it's mears who dropped the ball on this one. oddly enough, the twisting of facts (from "the heat wore this style in game 2" to "o'neal wore this exact jersey in game 2") and the omission of the reattached patch would seem to make the jersey appear more valuable than it is.

rudy.

[otismalibu]

Does reattached mean the patch was on, then it was off, and now it's back on?

[kingjammy24]

Does reattached mean the patch was on, then it was off, and now it's back on?

greg,

that's how i would read it. it seems that would qualify as an alteration and it's widely accepted and commonly known in the hobby that alterations play a major role in determining authenticity. mears informed mastro of the alteration and yet it didn't appear in the description.

on another note, look what i found at jersey-joe.com:

http://www.jersey-joe.com/PATCH_NBA_FINALS.html

rudy.

[bondsfan]

The statement made by Mears below is a copout

"Collectors are also reminded that the definition for jerseys graded A5 includes this language:

“that was manufactured for player use or as an extra for a team or player, or one that may have been made available for retail sale or promotion.”

THat statement and the A5 grade they place on jerseys doesn't keep them from selling A5 shirts as "game worn jerseys". They have 9 or 10 A5 football jerseys alone for sale right now that list as "game worn".

If they can claim they are game worn and sell them as such then they shouldn't be able to use the claim above when it is convenient for them.

Coveh

[trsent]

The statement made by Mears below is a copout

"Collectors are also reminded that the definition for jerseys graded A5 includes this language:

“that was manufactured for player use or as an extra for a team or player, or one that may have been made available for retail sale or promotion.”

THat statement and the A5 grade they place on jerseys doesn't keep them from selling A5 shirts as "game worn jerseys". They have 9 or 10 A5 football jerseys alone for sale right now that list as "game worn".

If they can claim they are game worn and sell them as such then they shouldn't be able to use the claim above when it is convenient for them.

Coveh

Coveh, I do not understand what the issue is. MEARS certifies items and they will stand behind their certification and they will explain and answer questions when people have them. Please advise what other 3rd party authenticator in this entire industry will answer questions about their certification and will stand behind their service?

MEARS has a format where they appear to do more homework than any other 3rd party authenticator in the industry, and then if questions are asked them come forward with answers.

So, their letter states that the patch was "reattached" and they do not attribute the jersey to being worn in that individual game. They wrote a letter stating that the jersey matches what fits for a game used/team issued jersey. Mastro Auctions may have assumed more, but without any team or player proof, A5 is the highest grade they can assign this jersey.

Dave Grob and I do not always see eye to eye, but in my opinion, as MEARS Policy Director he has made MEARS an honorable company that is open, honest and direct with any questions. They may sell items themselves, but each and every item they authenticate and sell is fully disclosed to this matter.

Please find me another company that will disclose such.

If you do not like it, you do not have to buy anything from them, but some people like to see that Dave Bushing bought an item, had MEARS authenticate it as they like to see the chain of ownership. They also know if Dave Bushing buys an item and MEARS authenticates is that they feel strong enough to stand behind the item.

Their full disclosure policy is the most honorable policy in the hobby today of any company of this nature. I challange others (say, American Memorabilia - 100% Authentic, for example) to disclose in their listing when they own and authenticated an item.

[Nathan]

Joel,

Although I know you weren't necessarily asking the question, MeiGray goes to incredible lengths to authenticate jerseys not originally from them and stands behind it.

There was a situation recently involving a Mike Bossy NY Islanders jersey that was submitted for authentication. Barry and Stu Oxenhorn managed to borrow over 1,000 negatives of Mike Bossy from the time period in question to analyze in an attempt to match the name and number fonts in addition to the wear patterns.

(Kind of makes an alleged 8,000 photo library look like crap, huh?)

[trsent]

Joel,

Although I know you weren't necessarily asking the question, MeiGray goes to incredible lengths to authenticate jerseys not originally from them and stands behind it.

There was a situation recently involving a Mike Bossy NY Islanders jersey that was submitted for authentication. Barry and Stu Oxenhorn managed to borrow over 1,000 negatives of Mike Bossy from the time period in question to analyze in an attempt to match the name and number fonts in addition to the wear patterns.

(Kind of makes an alleged 8,000 photo library look like crap, huh?)

So is The MeiGray Group now accepting submissions of game used items that they will certify? I have always like their operation, but I never heard they will accept jerseys and write letters on them.

If this is the case, please email me a link to the information about this on their web site. I may be interested in using their service somewhere down the road. I cannot find anything about it on their web site.

[kingjammy24]

"I have a person on my staff who will monitor various game used forums to make sure we are more attentive to issues that arise regarding items in our auction." - Doug Allen, Aug 2007 after the Jordan shirt debacle.

the O'Neal auction is still running, with no changes to the description, and 1 bid. the individual who's supposed to be monitoring various game used forums is doing a bang up job. A+ for attentiveness. as well, the 1994 griffey is still up.

i sent emails a long time ago but never received a response. perhaps mastro is distracted with the current FBI investigation.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2307/heeuv5.jpg

rudy.

[lund6771]

Rudy....

if i knew the FBI was talking about me, I'd be scared tie my own shoes....

complete idiots

[trsent]

So is The MeiGray Group now accepting submissions of game used items that they will certify? I have always like their operation, but I never heard they will accept jerseys and write letters on them.

If this is the case, please email me a link to the information about this on their web site. I may be interested in using their service somewhere down the road. I cannot find anything about it on their web site.

Nathan, no response to this request? I figured the link to the information to back up your post to show where MeiGray is accepting item to authenticate would really be neat to see.

This will help prove your claim about a 8000 photo library looking like crap.

[lund6771]

Nathan, no response to this request? I figured the link to the information to back up your post to show where MeiGray is accepting item to authenticate would really be neat to see.

This will help prove your claim about a 8000 photo library looking like crap.


I can't seem to find a link, but they do offer the service...it is not cheap, but it is done the way that it should be done...their process is awesome!!!

You should call Barry and he'll tell ya all about it

just look what a Meigray letter means vs a Lampson letter...Lebron James in VA's auction sells for $10 K with a Meigray letter...with a Lampson letter it'd be lucky to get $1 K...Obviously most collectors are smart enough to realize that a Meigray letter actually means something

[trsent]

I can't seem to find a link, but they do offer the service...it is not cheap, but it is done the way that it should be done...their process is awesome!!!

You should call Barry and he'll tell ya all about it

just look what a Meigray letter means vs a Lampson letter...Lebron James in VA's auction sells for $10 K with a Meigray letter...with a Lampson letter it'd be lucky to get $1 K...Obviously most collectors are smart enough to realize that a Meigray letter actually means something

So wait, MeiGray is now authenticating 3rd party items? I wish they would put this on their web site, as it could be a great service to compete with what MEARS offers.

[Nathan]

Hi Joel,

Sorry, I missed your follow-up post to mine.

I don't believe MeiGray has the information on their website, but I'm sure Barry Meisel (bmeisel [at] meigray [dot] com) or Stu Oxenhorn (soxenhorn [at] meigray [dot] com) would be happy to answer your questions.

I know they do a ton of hockey authenticating, but I'm not so sure on other sports.

And since I was at the MeiGray expo last month, observing Stu churning through thousands of pictures and standing next to enormous cabinets stuffed with various media of hundreds (if not thousands) of games from various time periods, I'm fairly comfortable stating that it makes Lampson's alleged 8,000 picture library look like nothing.

[trsent]

Hi Joel,

Sorry, I missed your follow-up post to mine.

I don't believe MeiGray has the information on their website, but I'm sure Barry Meisel (bmeisel [at] meigray [dot] com) or Stu Oxenhorn (soxenhorn [at] meigray [dot] com) would be happy to answer your questions.

I know they do a ton of hockey authenticating, but I'm not so sure on other sports.

And since I was at the MeiGray expo last month, observing Stu churning through thousands of pictures and standing next to enormous cabinets stuffed with various media of hundreds (if not thousands) of games from various time periods, I'm fairly comfortable stating that it makes Lampson's alleged 8,000 picture library look like nothing.

Great! We are on the same page, I though the 8000 picture quote was a shot at MEARS. I was never considering Lou Lampson in my discussion, since I do not believe he accepts public submissions.

[Soonerfan65]

MeiGray does have an authentication service and if they give it the thumbs up it can also be registered into their system; they are top notch to deal with

[lund6771]

also extremely professional as well

[Nathan]

Great! We are on the same page, I though the 8000 picture quote was a shot at MEARS. I was never considering Lou Lampson in my discussion, since I do not believe he accepts public submissions.

No no, I wouldn't take a shot at MEARS without one heck of a good reason. Simply existing doesn't constitute "a good reason".;)

[BarryMeisel]

Hi Joel,

Yes, MeiGray offers an authentication service.

We have not publicized it on our website because we get too many items to authenticate simply through word of mouth among our more than 11,300-customer database. Substantive and thorough authentication, which we pride ourselves on at MeiGray and which we believe sets us above other authenticators, takes much time and effort.

We work primarily with hockey jerseys, but with our access to Getty Images' vast photo library, and the resources of the NHL and NBA through our league endorsed authentication programs, quite often we can help.

We do not authenticate all game-worn jerseys, because we do not consider ourselves experts on all aspects of all sports within the game-worn hobby, and we do not try to waste collectors' time and money if we do not believe we can help.

Please let me know which jersey or jerseys you would like to have authenticated, by calling me toll-free at 888-463-4472, or e-mailing me at bmeisel@meigray.com.

I'll be happy to let you know if we can help,
Regards,
Barry

[beantown]

I have used Meigray for 3rd party authentication...Barry and Stu have worked with me on several items...nothing but a positive experience with both...CLASS ACTS!

-Chris

[kingjammy24]

jersey has been removed.

rudy.

[lund6771]

Hi Joel,

Yes, MeiGray offers an authentication service.

We have not publicized it on our website because we get too many items to authenticate simply through word of mouth among our more than 11,300-customer database. Substantive and thorough authentication, which we pride ourselves on at MeiGray and which we believe sets us above other authenticators, takes much time and effort.

We work primarily with hockey jerseys, but with our access to Getty Images' vast photo library, and the resources of the NHL and NBA through our league endorsed authentication programs, quite often we can help.

We do not authenticate all game-worn jerseys, because we do not consider ourselves experts on all aspects of all sports within the game-worn hobby, and we do not try to waste collectors' time and money if we do not believe we can help.

Please let me know which jersey or jerseys you would like to have authenticated, by calling me toll-free at 888-463-4472, or e-mailing me at bmeisel@meigray.com.

I'll be happy to let you know if we can help,
Regards,
Barry


reading a post like this reiterates the differences between Meigray and all other authenticators...it sounds like they do the same reasearch that many on this site do, but with greater resourses

Meigray comes right out and tells ya how they do it...No BS...anyone know what lengths 100% UN-authentic, Lampson, GF, and Mastro go to authenticate something?

[trsent]

reading a post like this reiterates the differences between Meigray and all other authenticators...it sounds like they do the same reasearch that many on this site do, but with greater resourses

Meigray comes right out and tells ya how they do it...No BS...anyone know what lengths 100% UN-authentic, Lampson, GF, and Mastro go to authenticate something?

Sounds good, I may be contacting Barry somewhere down the road for this service. Barry Meisel has always been a gentleman and professional in any conversations I have had with him.

[BarryMeisel]

Thanks for the kind words, Joel.

We hope to hear from you,

Barry