Cal Ripken Jr **ROOKIE** Game Used Jersey - Memory Lane Auctions

[ripkengamers]

http://www.memorylaneinc.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=1311&getauctionid=62

OK HOWARD, MARK. OTHERS,
THIS LOOKS LIKE THE REAL DEAL TO ME. I'M LOOKING FOR MEMBERS OPINIONS ON THIS ONE! THIS WOULD BE THE CORNERSTONE TO ANY RIPKEN GAME USED COLLECTORS MUSEUM!

[hblakewolf]

Longtime Orioles contact/collector Barry Wolfscheimer had Ripkens rookie jersey. IT was made by Descente and correctly tagged. He obtained it directly from the team when he made one of his huge bulk purchases. I believe he consigned it to Lelands a few years ago.

With that said, I would have no interest in the jersey that is being offered for the following reasons:
It is a 1980 jersey that was "recycled" for Ripken in 1981. How can we ever know if someone removed the original name on back, Skaggs (Dave Skaggs) and put RIPKEN on back? Or was this recycles to the minor leagues after 1980, the name Skaggs removed, and later, the name Ripken added, even though Ripken never wore it?

How could Grey Flannel write a definitive letter of authenticity 15 years after this was worn, based on a name change and being from a year before Ripken played? How can it be proven that Ripken wore this in 1981, let alone provide a LOA? If it had a LOA from the Orioles, maybe, or even Ripken himself.

Is it possible Ripken wore this? Maybe. If it was a being sold as a common 1980 ort 1981 Orioles jersey with these issues, I may purchase it just for the style. Too many unknowns for me to feel comfortable with this.

I'll pass and wait for Barry Wolfscheimers PERFECT Descente Ripken Rookie to resurface and make a run for that.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[kingjammy24]

Is that the same Descente that makes ski jackets?

Anyway, I'm surprised no Orioles/Ripken collectors mentioned this recent 1985 Ripken up for auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8773226824

Rudy.

[suave1477]

I find 2 things funny about the ebay ad link kingjammy posted.

1) Why is i always see guys who are selling game used jerseys always have listed that same players game used baseball cards?
( maybe they think if we assume there selling the same players g/u cards we will automatically think the jersey has to be real ) just a thought!!

2) He actually posted ripken will always be remembered with the likes of Mantle, Maris and so on / dont get me wrong i think ripken was a very good player but he wasnt a record setting monster due to his hitting / his big record was for showing up to a game everyday.

I show up to work every day and even i didnt get a dinner "Red Buttons":D

[trsent]

Dave Winfield (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/winfida01.shtml) (787) *
Robin Yount (http://www.baseball-reference.com/y/yountro01.shtml) (759) *
Al Kaline (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kalinal01.shtml) (747) *
Eddie Murray (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/murraed02.shtml) (742) *
Carl Yastrzemski (http://www.baseball-reference.com/y/yastrca01.shtml) (741) *
Craig Biggio (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/biggicr01.shtml) (727)
George Brett (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/brettge01.shtml) (704) *
Harold Baines (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/baineha01.shtml) (703)
Tony Perez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/perezto01.shtml) (699) *
Andre Dawson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dawsoan01.shtml) (696)http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=ripkeca01:Cal+Ripken&st=career

baseball-reference.com lists Ripken's stats in comparison to these ten players. Pretty nice group if you ask me. Sure, not Mantle (not Maris, duh) but not Ruth, Cobb or Mays either.

This is really a neat web site if you wish to find stats and other information about a player's career, records, salary, etc.

[baltos]

This jersey has been auctioned three or four times including this listing from Mastro. I agree with Howard that there are some things about this jersey which would concern me (primarily the name change). I would rather prefer a Ripken with stronger provenance.

I have seen firsthand a 1981 Ripken which had ironclad provenance and it was a Rawlings. Also size 44, it had a +3 inches flag tag.

I grew up an Orioles fan and even more specifically a Ripken fan, but for what a genuine Ripken rookie would bring, I could own 8-10 top notch flannels with no question of authenticity.

[baltos]

I forgot to post the Mastro listing.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/baltos/1981Oriolesroad3.jpg

[hblakewolf]

Forum readers-
after sleeping on this, I realized a few things........

Ripken was on the 40 man roster for the 1981 season. As such, the team would have included him on their 1981 order for jerseys. when he was called up from Rochester in 1981, a fresh jersey would have been waiting for him.

I could understand them stripping Dave Skaggs jersey in a quite attempt to have a shirt for him, if he was called up from the low minors or it was not expected for him to join the Orioles and a shirt was not ordered from the manufacturer. Again, Ripken was on the 40 man roster and as such, a shirt would have been waiting.

I'm not sure the team wore Wilson shirts in 1981. Descente supplied the jerseys, however, I can't remember if it was 1982 or 1981. If it was in 1981, then this even stinks more.

Regardless, based on the above, I have a difficult time believing this is Ripkens real 1981 jersey.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[kingjammy24]

Howard,

Are you implying that jerseys that are re-used are done so solely for players who arrive after the start of the season? (It's entirely plausible. I just want to make sure I understand what you seem to be implying).

As I understand it, jersey orders are placed in early spring. This is done when the team has a decent idea of who's going to be on the team. The equipment manager records all the players he needs, their sizes, numbers, any customizations, quantities, and sends the order through.
Is it possible that, on a cheap team, an equipment manager could see how many jerseys from the previous season he could salvage and order the difference? That is, if 25 jerseys are required and he figures he can re-use 5 jerseys from the previous season, then he'll only order 20 new jerseys? Just a thought.

Obviously, we're all aware of teams re-using jerseys. I had just never thought of re-used jerseys as being solely for players arriving after the start of the season. Interesting idea. Thoughts?

Rudy.

[suave1477]

KingJammy ell i can totally see that why not? I bet the equipment manager even looks better to his management by doing that, then he can turn around and say "hey boss i saved the team some moeny this year". Or just for the fact the team is cheap why not hold on to left overs for minor leaguers that come up in the middle of the season!!!

[hblakewolf]

Howard,

Are you implying that jerseys that are re-used are done so solely for players who arrive after the start of the season? (It's entirely plausible. I just want to make sure I understand what you seem to be implying).

As I understand it, jersey orders are placed in early spring. This is done when the team has a decent idea of who's going to be on the team. The equipment manager records all the players he needs, their sizes, numbers, any customizations, quantities, and sends the order through.
Is it possible that, on a cheap team, an equipment manager could see how many jerseys from the previous season he could salvage and order the difference? That is, if 25 jerseys are required and he figures he can re-use 5 jerseys from the previous season, then he'll only order 20 new jerseys? Just a thought.

Obviously, we're all aware of teams re-using jerseys. I had just never thought of re-used jerseys as being solely for players arriving after the start of the season. Interesting idea. Thoughts?

Rudy.

Rudy-
Based on my experience with the Phillies, the jerseys are ordered in early January. If a player is cut at spring training or during the seaosn, they very well might take that jersey, strip the name off the back, and give it to a traded player or minor leaguer in the organization who is called up during that same season.

I am not familiar with the team using older jerseys, rather, current (same season) jerseys for this purpose.

Referencing the Ripken in question, it seems odd that Ripken was on the 40 man roster and they used a prior seasons jersey. I'm not even sure if Wilson was the brand for the 1981 O's season.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[kingjammy24]

Apparently Cal did get a new jersey in 1981? (A Rawlings though?)

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?lot=1153&auctionid=112
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lelands - December 2001 auction
Lot 1153 . 1981 Cal Ripken, Jr. Game Worn Rookie Jersey
"..Predating "The Streak," the jersey shows light but definite use from a season during which he made his first timid steps toward greatness in only thirty-nine plate appearances. All of the major details, of course, are utterly familiar to even the most casual baseball fan. "Orioles 8" emblazons the chest, with "Ripken 8" on verso. A closer inspection brings the importance into focus, with tail tagging from "Rawlings [size] 44" blooming a "Set 1 1981" flag tag above another reading "2 Inch Extra Length." A very, very observant eye will catch that the nameplate on back has been team-reinforced with white thread, giving the plate a slight ripple effect. This is particularly noteworthy as this same effect is visible on the 1982 Topps Traded card, leading us to believe that Cal is wear-ing this very jersey in that photo. Very detailed LOA completes one of the most impressive packages we've ever had the honor to offer."
Price Realized: $18,520.87
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Below are several 1981 and 1982 baseball cards of the Orioles and they all seem void of the Rawlings script logo on the right sleeve?

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/5235/orioles5mi.jpg

Oddly enough, Henderson's guide lists Wilson as the supplier of the Orioles 1980 Road jerseys. While I'm fully aware that there are errors in Bill's guide, I'm curious what evidence he discovered which led him to put Wilson down.

Rudy.

[hblakewolf]

Rudy-you indicate the Rawlings logo is not on the 1981 jerseys. I have a Von hayes 1982 Indians, Rawlings brand, and it does not have it either. I'm not aware of Rawlings adding this to the sleeve during this time period.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net



Apparently Cal did get a new jersey in 1981? (A Rawlings though?)

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?lot=1153&auctionid=112
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lelands - December 2001 auction
Lot 1153 . 1981 Cal Ripken, Jr. Game Worn Rookie Jersey
"..Predating "The Streak," the jersey shows light but definite use from a season during which he made his first timid steps toward greatness in only thirty-nine plate appearances. All of the major details, of course, are utterly familiar to even the most casual baseball fan. "Orioles 8" emblazons the chest, with "Ripken 8" on verso. A closer inspection brings the importance into focus, with tail tagging from "Rawlings [size] 44" blooming a "Set 1 1981" flag tag above another reading "2 Inch Extra Length." A very, very observant eye will catch that the nameplate on back has been team-reinforced with white thread, giving the plate a slight ripple effect. This is particularly noteworthy as this same effect is visible on the 1982 Topps Traded card, leading us to believe that Cal is wear-ing this very jersey in that photo. Very detailed LOA completes one of the most impressive packages we've ever had the honor to offer."
Price Realized: $18,520.87
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Below are several 1981 and 1982 baseball cards of the Orioles and they all seem void of the Rawlings script logo on the right sleeve?

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/5235/orioles5mi.jpg

Oddly enough, Henderson's guide lists Wilson as the supplier of the Orioles 1980 Road jerseys. While I'm fully aware that there are errors in Bill's guide, I'm curious what evidence he discovered which led him to put Wilson down.

Rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Howard,

Thanks for the info! Very interesting. I didn't know some Rawlings jerseys were void of the logo. At any rate, someone paid over $18k for an '81 Rawlings Ripken. I wonder what the truth of that jersey is..is it really photomatched? Impossible to tell from Leland's tiny pics. If it is, I suppose that would throw another manufacturer into the pot.


Rudy.

[trsent]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a a similar rookie jersey in a major auction house in the last 5-10 years that had a LOA from Ripken's agent? I can remember that is sold for around $30,000. When I say similar, I mean it had a name and number change and was tagged from a previous year other than 1981.

[bigtime59]

My collection starts (in earnest, anyway) in 1989. I don't have enough Orioles stuff of this vintage to add much to this conversation. I know somebody who does, but I'm not sure he's on this forum.

[trsent]

From my recollection Rawlings did not start adding there name to the sleeves of the jerseys until 1987, maybe 1989, but definitely not in the early 1980's.

[ironmanfan]

Joel is right; the "Rawlings" logo did not appear on the sleeves until 1987 (the first year they had a contract with MLB).

[beantown]

I do have two 1985 Fred Lynn Home & Away Game Worn Used Jersey....the home, is made by Rawlings and no Rawlings on the sleeve...the road is made by Sand Knit..here are some pictures...hope this helps...

p.s..wanted other Fred Lynn Gamers....

[Garistotle]

Hi Guys,

I don't post much on here but I am a big Orioles fan and think I can help shed some light on this topic.

I own a 1981 road Orioles Bob Bonner jersey that is a Rawlings Size 42, Set 1 (NOTE: my jersey has no provenance). It is my understanding that the Orioles did, in fact, use Rawlings jerseys for regular season games starting in 1981. They stopped using Wilson after 1980 (except for the orange alternates). HOWEVER, I have seen a picture of Ripken in a Wilson road jersey (see his 1982 Fleer rookie card). My guess is that they recycled some 1980 jerseys for Spring Training 1981). To the best of my knowledge, they NEVER worn Wilson road jerseys during the regular season in 1981.

If anyone wants to search old photos, some key differences between the 1980 Wilson and the 1981 Rawlings are:

Look at the "i" in Orioles. The dot of the "i" is connected to the rest of the letter on Wilson jerseys. You will always see separation between the dot and the base of the "i" on Rawlings.

The number size (both front and back) is bigger on Rawlings jerseys.

The Orioles script is slightly thinner with Rawlings vs. Wilson.

The font used on the nameplate is completely different (Rawlings used a taller font size). I compared the "R" on my Bonner jersey with the "R" on the Ripken auction jersey - they are completely different. My jersey has the same characteristics as the Leland's Ripken jersey.

This might be difficult to explain but the construction of the jerseys is completely different between Rawlings & Wilson. With Rawlings, you will see one seam from the collar running right down the top of the shoulder. Then the sleeves are sewn on to the arm openings. The Wilson sleeves, however, actually run right up to and connect with the collar opening. You will see two seams, one slightly lower on the the front shouilder and one slightly rounded seam running up the back of the shoulder.

Based on all this, here are my conclusions:

1) The Orioles used Rawlings home and away jerseys in 1981.
2) The Wilson auction jersey was NEVER worn during the regular season in 1981.
3) It is possible that the Wilson jersey was worn in Spring Training 1981. Again, see his 1982 Fleer rookie baseball card. The photo is a Spring Training photo and he IS wearing a Wilson jersey. My guess is that it was taken in 1981.

Hope this helps someone.

Rich

[porsche544]

http://www.memorylaneinc.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=1311

THIS JERSEY SOLD FOR $7300.00 NOT INCLUDING BUYER'S PREMIUM. THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY FOR A JERSEY WITH A GRADING OF A3 FROM MEARS. DO YOU ALL AGREE? BUT ALMOST 80% OF GAME WORN JERSEYS EXAMINED BY MEARS HAVE A GRADE OF A5.

THIS MAY BE A RECORD SALE FOR AN A3 JERSEY.

[flaco1801]

i think teams order a certain amount of "blank" jerseys. if a player is traded for, they will sometimes get a jersey with no name on back. i know a lady who did a lot of late sewing for the mets (stiches). i remember her telling me she did joe orsulak, and faberegas(sp) among others. in my opinion i believe the previous season get recycled and not kept in the clubhouse waiting to get a new life.

[trsent]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/fabrejo01.shtml

[David-A]

***Content Removed- ***NOTE FROM MODERATOR- This User Is Currently Banned Forever Under Multiple Accounts For Consistently Breaking The Rules Of The Forum. User Received Many Warnings But Did Not Change Behavior. He Registered Today Under This New Account And Has Again Been Banned***

[mr.miracle]

Here is the lelands auction referenced in this post for the Ripken rookie


December 2001 (http://www.lelands.com/auction.aspx?auctionid=112) → Sports (http://www.lelands.com/categories.aspx?auctionid=112&catalog=Sports) → Baseball Jerseys (http://www.lelands.com/itemlist.aspx?auctionid=112&categoryid=20) Lot 1153. 1981 Cal Ripken, Jr. Game Worn Rookie Jersey It has been only a couple of months since this man, who has starred in two decades of sports page headlines, walked off the field for the last time, leaving a hole in the game and in our hearts that will be all but impossible to fill. He sym-bolized something far more than just athletic greatness, though it goes without saying that he was in no short supply of that. He stood as an icon of the dignity of the American Work Ethic in the game that is purely and completely American. His consecutive game streak was the embodiment of a human quality of the most admirable sort, and of a wisdom that understands that you can only win if you show up and play. Surely nobody, not even Cal himself, could have imagined what was in store for him as he suited up in this historic road grey gamer during his first year in the Majors. Predating "The Streak," the jersey shows light but definite use from a season during which he made his first timid steps toward greatness in only thirty-nine plate appearances. All of the major details, of course, are utterly familiar to even the most casual baseball fan. "Orioles 8" emblazons the chest, with "Ripken 8" on verso. A closer inspection brings the importance into focus, with tail tagging from "Rawlings [size] 44" blooming a "Set 1 1981" flag tag above another reading "2 Inch Extra Length." A very, very observant eye will catch that the nameplate on back has been team-reinforced with white thread, giving the plate a slight ripple effect. This is par-ticularly noteworthy as this same effect is visible on the 1982 Topps Traded card, leading us to believe that Cal is wear-ing this very jersey in that photo. Very detailed LOA completes one of the most impressive packages we've ever had the honor to offer.
Reserve: $10,000
Number of Bids: 6
Final Bid: $16,105.10

Price Realized:$18,000
http://www.lelands.com/App_Themes/Images/Auctions_Images/112/thumbnails/1153.jpg
Click to view larger image (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/)

[/URL] (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/) (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/) (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/)[URL="http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/"]
Click on a thumbnail to view an alternate image .caption { font-size:12px; font-style: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif }