GUU and the Collecting Community

[ChrisCavalier]

It seems pretty evident from recent posts on this site that some people are looking for a “non-profit” organization to offer services to collectors. Actually, I think the more appropriate term would be a “charity” since even non-profit organizations need to make money to pay their people to run an organization. In this case, it appears the expectation of some (I will say not all) is for everything to be completely free. I also realize that for the first couple of years we did run the site more like a charitable organization than a business. However, GUU is a business and the people involved with GUU need to make money to live just like everyone else. I wish I was independently wealthy and didn’t have to make money to survive but that is simply not the case.

What we have done with GUU, as with any good business, is to try to create an entity that can make money by meeting the needs of consumers. In this case, the consumers are sports memorabilia collectors. What we believed was that the existing systems that relied on individual opinions to validate items left room for improvement. We also believed that a system that was more accountable to the collector would be something collectors would welcome and prefer. From day one we also believed in always doing the right thing ethically and putting “integrity before profits”. I would hope our actions from the beginning of offering most of our services free of charge show our commitment to trying to build something long-term and meaningful.

I also realize there may be some misperceptions in terms of the revenue generated from the site. In fact, there was a post on a separate thread that stated the following, “Simple math guys @ $20 per member x 3000 members = $60,000 a year is not enough to run a website (rolling my eyes) plus the people like me, who $50 a year to be a premium member. I guess a years salary for some of use is just not enough”. As I pointed out in that thread, the variable that the poster forgot to consider is nearly 90% of the people using the GUU site are using a membership that is ‘complimentary’ and we haven’t charged them a dime for any of the services they are using. When that is understood, I think the equation looks a bit different.

In general, GUU has been looking to create a trusted entity in the marketplace where collectors can come with confidence to learn about the industry. The forums on the site have always been free and we will continue to offer those services for free to help improve the hobby. On the business side, we have looked to create a structure where people can also come with confidence to find legitimate merchandise to purchase. We have created a system that is transparent and responsible to the collector and one which we believe protects them from many of the pitfalls in the hobby. For those unaware, the system uses some of the most knowledgeable and trusted individuals in the hobby to perform item evaluations and descriptions and allows collectors to ask all the questions they wish publicly to make sure they know what they are getting before they make a purchase. It also allows anyone from our collective community to publicly comment on an item as long as they have substantiated information.

No system like this has ever existed to protect collectors to the extent it does and I believe it shows our commitment to always trying to do the right thing for the collecting community. We also do not partake in practices like “shill bidding” or any of the other supposed questionable practices in the hobby which is why I wasn’t at all nervous when the FBI introduced themselves to me at the National (the fact is they were very complimentary of our site and company and wanted to let us know they read our site as an informational source). Our commitment to integrity is also one of the main reasons we have been chosen as exclusive distributors for the Cowboys/Steiner program. There are other things that may be happening soon that will help GUU and the rest of the hobby. As stated previously, we have created a brand that collectors trust (that is the consistent feedback we were getting from collectors and dealers alike at the National) and it is a reputation we will guard fervently.

So where does that leave us now and what does it mean for the ‘For Sale’ section? I think the question is how to couple the need GUU has to maintain its reputation as a seller that doesn’t partake in offering questionable items with the desire of collectors to have a selling platform where they can list items themselves. While I am not saying everyone is going to try to offer questionable items on the site, the issue involves what happens if there are problems with items transacted among members of GUU. As I stated previously, most of you will simply say it is between the buyer and the seller. However, we have already had someone go on eBay and state we allowed him to be “ripped off” by a GUU forum member in one of their transactions when the previously ‘For Sale’ section existed. Again, you might say this isn’t a reflection on GUU but many might not know the circumstances and may believe it to be true. Also, without our involvement, we will not be able to protect collectors the way we have always intended to protect them.

On the other hand, we also have heard the desire for collectors to have a platform for them to sell items to other collectors. We do listen to our community and here is a solution we have some up with that we believe will meet both needs:

GUU will open a “Collector to Collector Classifieds" forum where collectors can sell among themselves. It will not be a forum for dealers, businesses or professional teams looking to sell their merchandise but simply a collector forum. In that forum, GUU will have no involvement in the evaluations of items or the transactions whatsoever nor will we moderate the forum. If there are any problems with transactions they will need to be resolved independent of GUU. We will also be putting a sale price limit on the items of $500. We simply will not run the risk of someone getting taken for big money which can lead to major problems. If any of these rules are broken the poster will be suspended. We are offering this at our members’ request and it is not something we will be moderating, sending emails to offenders, etc. Selling on this forum will be free and is being offered exclusively at the request of the members. However, buyers need to be aware there are no guarantees to the claims of sellers and you are buying at your on risk.

We also want to make it clear that the “Collector to Collector Classifieds" forum will have nothing to do with GUU’s selling model and GUU will not be accountable for any false representations, shipping of incorrect items, etc. We are targeting having the forum open tomorrow or Wednesday. Please let me know if you have any questions.

[SkubeBats]

Chris,
I just want to say thanks for doing this for all of us on this forum. I think this will make everyone happy to see the for sale forum back.
THANKS,
Jamie
jlschultz180@wi.rr.com

Always looking for Milwaukee Braves and Brewers game use bats...

[Neely8]

Thanks for your very informative post Chris. One point I think you are misunderstanding concerns the person who posted $20 per member x 3000 members = $60,000. My understanding of his post is that IF GUU charged all current members that is what kind of revenue that COULD be generated. My take on it is that was his suggestion on how to address the need for GUU to make some money in order to maintain the site.

I am glad to hear a variation of the For Sale section will be returning and I thank you for that. The one question I have is why put a dollar limit on any item that is sold? Was there a problem in that regard in the old system? I really don't recall too many incidents on here where guys were ripped off so that is why I question the implementation of a maximum dollar amount. If there were incidents of that nature that I am not aware of then I stand corrected. The one situation you bring to light seems to be pretty isolated and random as far as I can tell. I understand you not wanted GUU to be reflected on badly but in this hobby $500 won't get you a whole lot.

[ham1963]

Chris,
I just wanted to say thank you for what you and the "Founding Fathers" of this forum have done. I realize that there are some people who do post on this forum feel it should be an entitlement program. I know that for the past year that I have been on this forum I have learned alot of information and p/u some great contacts.
Again Thanks for the great job and keep it Up:)
John :D

[frikativ54]

GUU will open a “Collector to Collector Classifieds" forum where collectors can sell among themselves. It will not be a forum for dealers, businesses or professional teams looking to sell their merchandise but simply a collector forum. In that forum, GUU will have no involvement in the evaluations of items or the transactions whatsoever nor will we moderate the forum. If there are any problems with transactions they will need to be resolved independent of GUU. We will also be putting a sale price limit on the items of $500. We simply will not run the risk of someone getting taken for big money which can lead to major problems. If any of these rules are broken the poster will be suspended. We are offering this at our members’ request and it is not something we will be moderating, sending emails to offenders, etc. Selling on this forum will be free and is being offered exclusively at the request of the members. However, buyers need to be aware there are no guarantees to the claims of sellers and you are buying at your on risk.

We also want to make it clear that the “Collector to Collector Classifieds" forum will have nothing to do with GUU’s selling model and GUU will not be accountable for any false representations, shipping of incorrect items, etc. We are targeting having the forum open tomorrow or Wednesday. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you for introducing a "collector to collector classified" section to GUU. Like many of you, I await some of the deals I will find on this valuable resource. However, there are a couple of concerns I'd like to voice:

1) I don't understand why dealers cannot post blowout sales, etc on the sub-forum
2) $500 seems kind of arbitrary

I would propose that collectors post inexpensive pieces on this forum, and that deals over $1,000 be worked out off this site. Or amend the "For Sale" section to not include prices at all.

Whatever the final decision is, I would be loath to allow liability to trump the will of the Game Used Universe members. By only being concerned with your own reputation, you will be the author of this site's demise.

[NegleyPirate]

Chris,
thanks for the update! Will the people using the GUU's selling platform get their items authenticated when using that option? Also do you think the collector to collector classifieds will stay up when GUU's have auctions and if it will be like Craigslist items listed last for like 7days? Thanks for your time!

[worldchamps]

Thank you this seems very fair.

I hope that this experience is viewed as one where the community's voice was heard. I think for the most part everything was voiced professionally.

A suggestion i have is that there is a focus group of members to run ideas by, very well could be there is one, that i am unaware of. I would be willing to donate my time and thoughts to keep this the best site running.

Thanks again for all you do.

Bill

rangersstars@yahoo.com

[G1X]

Chris,

Not meaning to start any controversy, but where will the line be drawn regarding a "Collector" as opposed to a "Dealer"? The line is really blurred at this point as some collectors might actually be "dealers" and not realize it.

As both a dealer and a collector, I occasionally have items in my personal collection to sale, plus I might have "blowout" items from my inventory or announcements of new inventory acquisitions that I wish to announce.

Why not charge us "dealers" an advertising fee to post? I would gladly pay a reasonable price per post, per item, etc., regardless of whether it comes from my personal collection or dealer inventory. (The $500 rule would not bother me as most of my items are priced under that amount).

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[Vintagedeputy]

Chris - outstanding plan.....Kudos to all of you. :)

[jgoldstein2000]

Thanks Chris.

[zookerman182]

perfect plan. $500 seems a bit low but i will deal. Maybe being forced to spend less is a good thing. Thanks for making such a forum and i am looking forward to its launch.

Matt

[reed1216]

I really don't want to seem like a whiner. Of course, several of you who read this will see it as such. I guess that's fine, as long as I see it as my small attempt to contribute something to this, as a decision is made as to how to allow members to sell to one another through this site.

First of all, limiting the items sold to a maximum of $500 is not only arbitrary, but also short sited in lite of the reasons for doing so. Does this mean that GUU is more than happy to deploy their legal team to cover the anticipated expenses of defending themselves against suits filed in transactions below $500?? I think that we see that this is a compromise to placate those that have conducted transactions on this site in order to make as much money as they can. Is this wrong- of course not. But call a spade a spade, we deserve that.

I think having a classified section is a great idea. Protecting yourselves against liability is a must. I am not a businessman, I'm a social worker. However, I don't see any advantage in limiting the amount of the dollar amounts in transactions if there is a disclaimer that protects against law suits. I know there are lawyers here who could elaborate on this.....

This is not the first site that has offered a place for collectors to post, sell and comment on issues regarding game used jerseys and equipment. The arena of hockey offers two outstanding sites and neither has (to my knowledge) experienced any issues regarding collectors buying and selling articles that have been advertised on their sites. One site conducts auctions that have been (as I would assume) successful. In my opinion they are a bit shady, as they have banned some of its members for questioning items. This has not been done here and I have faith that it won't. I think they'd be a whole lot more successful if they would act in a more ethical manner and pull questionable items, but I'm just a guy with a limited income who wants to be a part of this hobby.

All I'm suggesting is this... Let collectors buy, sell and trade with collectors. Conduct auctions as you have and make some cash. By the prices realized in these sales, it seems fairly obvious that you all have capitalized on the ethical standards that have been set here. That's a good thing.

Presently, the members here all surf EBay as well. There really isn't a huge advantage between dealing with one another and listing an item on EBay. That's my opinion and I would be open to others, but we're all pretty well educated and know where we can get a good deal on something. The environment we work in determines how business is conducted. I really think that these things should be considered before short sited decisions are made that will adversely effct this ited are made. I love gameuseuniverse.com and I want to see it grow. Please don't cut off your head to spite you face with this issue. To many advances have been made due to your hard work... Thanks for reading...........

[skyking26]

Great plan. I personally have always understood that "free" and an ongoing business cannot coexist. Carry on...

[DonFan23]

I think what people are missing (at least as I read it) is that the sub $500 classifieds will work similar to the old for sale section, just without moderator oversight. The new selling platform will still be rolled out, but will be limited to more expensive items and dealer inventory regardless of price.

Chris - thanks as always for the update.

[dcgreg25]

Chris, thanks for the update. The new setup seems very reasonable. Having the classified ads for items under $500 will be a boom for collectors of lesser named players. By using the reviewed selling platform for items over that amount, it will bring oversight and attention to the more expensive items. Personally, I believe this is a very good compromise allowing for the free exchange of information (and goods) but also providing income for the site and oversight for the more expensive items. Sounds like a great system! I look forward to not only the classified section but also the review section for more expensive items! Thanks for listening to us and keeping the forum great.

[grandpahoo]

Thank you for introducing a "collector to collector classified" section to GUU. Like many of you, I await some of the deals I will find on this valuable resource. However, there are a couple of concerns I'd like to voice:

1) I don't understand why dealers cannot post blowout sales, etc on the sub-forum
2) $500 seems kind of arbitrary

I would propose that collectors post inexpensive pieces on this forum, and that deals over $1,000 be worked out off this site. Or amend the "For Sale" section to not include prices at all.

Whatever the final decision is, I would be loath to allow liability to trump the will of the Game Used Universe members. By only being concerned with your own reputation, you will be the author of this site's demise.

It seems pretty obvious to me that they would prefer not to have a "For Sale" section at all, yet they've decided to bring it back in a modified form as a compromise. It's their website and their business. If you're that unhappy (which I've gleaned from numerous posts), you should start your own site. Otherwise, cut the brother some slack.

[joelsabi]

I really don't want to seem like a whiner. Of course, several of you who read this will see it as such. I guess that's fine, as long as I see it as my small attempt to contribute something to this, as a decision is made as to how to allow members to sell to one another through this site.

First of all, limiting the items sold to a maximum of $500 is not only arbitrary, but also short sited in lite of the reasons for doing so. Does this mean that GUU is more than happy to deploy their legal team to cover the anticipated expenses of defending themselves against suits filed in transactions below $500?? I think that we see that this is a compromise to placate those that have conducted transactions on this site in order to make as much money as they can. Is this wrong- of course not. But call a spade a spade, we deserve that.

I think having a classified section is a great idea. Protecting yourselves against liability is a must. I am not a businessman, I'm a social worker. However, I don't see any advantage in limiting the amount of the dollar amounts in transactions if there is a disclaimer that protects against law suits. I know there are lawyers here who could elaborate on this.....

This is not the first site that has offered a place for collectors to post, sell and comment on issues regarding game used jerseys and equipment. The arena of hockey offers two outstanding sites and neither has (to my knowledge) experienced any issues regarding collectors buying and selling articles that have been advertised on their sites. One site conducts auctions that have been (as I would assume) successful. In my opinion they are a bit shady, as they have banned some of its members for questioning items. This has not been done here and I have faith that it won't. I think they'd be a whole lot more successful if they would act in a more ethical manner and pull questionable items, but I'm just a guy with a limited income who wants to be a part of this hobby.

All I'm suggesting is this... Let collectors buy, sell and trade with collectors. Conduct auctions as you have and make some cash. By the prices realized in these sales, it seems fairly obvious that you all have capitalized on the ethical standards that have been set here. That's a good thing.

Presently, the members here all surf EBay as well. There really isn't a huge advantage between dealing with one another and listing an item on EBay. That's my opinion and I would be open to others, but we're all pretty well educated and know where we can get a good deal on something. The environment we work in determines how business is conducted. I really think that these things should be considered before short sited decisions are made that will adversely effct this ited are made. I love gameuseuniverse.com and I want to see it grow. Please don't cut off your head to spite you face with this issue. To many advances have been made due to your hard work... Thanks for reading...........


reed you have some very good insight with your experience at other forum's like the hockey forum you mentioned. also your post is well thought out and has some great ideas. i hope the the admin read your post carefully and perhaps respond to it.

[grandpahoo]

First of all, limiting the items sold to a maximum of $500 is not only arbitrary, but also short sited in lite of the reasons for doing so. Does this mean that GUU is more than happy to deploy their legal team to cover the anticipated expenses of defending themselves against suits filed in transactions below $500??

No, it likely means the exact opposite - if the value of the items at issue is minimal, any lawsuit would likely end up in small claims court. If anything, limiting the value to $500 would keep GUU from having to call its attorneys.


I think having a classified section is a great idea. Protecting yourselves against liability is a must. I am not a businessman, I'm a social worker. However, I don't see any advantage in limiting the amount of the dollar amounts in transactions if there is a disclaimer that protects against law suits. I know there are lawyers here who could elaborate on this.....

A disclaimer may be helpful in defending against a lawsuit, but it doesn't preclude people from suing. And the cost of litigation is incredibly high, even if a claim has no merit.

[GoTigers]

Thanks for the update. I believe the new Classified section is a great idea when paired with the new For Sale section. A free section that avoids fees on low dollar items will keep me from posting on Ebay at all.

I do have one question about the For Sale seciton... How will GUU address the "Conflict of Interest" claims that are sure to arise when serving as the authenticator while charging fees for sales.... Some would say that this exactally the type of thing this website was created to avoid...

Personally, I will use both new sections and have no problem with the fees or authentication.. Just thought I'd bring this up now as I'm sure it'll arise in the future.

[JETEFAN]

"For Sale" sections have been around since Fred Flinstone first listed Bam Bam's bat. There are thousands of sites with people selling anything from bats to martians! It can be done, Auctions are no less of a liability, in fact most of the complaints even on this forum have been geared towards Auction house issues. I would be curious to know of the thousands of transactions made through the old "For Sale" section on this forum, how many times has GUU been legally or otherwise responsible for any wrong doing. We are trying to force GUU to design a website to meet our indivisual needs and wants without having to do it ourselves. GUU is being forced to come up with excuses to avoid doing something they do not want to do to please the public. Thanks to GUU for providing a great tool for the collector and thanks to the thousands of forum members that have given GUU the name recognition they can benefit from today, they would not be here without you the members. The "for Sale' section without a doubt was the most popular section on this site, if it's new model is not to your liking, move on...... Like Chris mentioned it is a buisness and they entitled to make a profit.

George

[both-teams-played-hard]

What constitutes a "dealer"? I have a bunch of jerseys in my closet, which is, I guess, could be called my inventory. I also have a website. I collect jerseys, but I also sell some to make ends meet. The term dealer is often used as a dirty word, like "pusher". Extra punishment for dealing that game worn junk around the Junior High. If anyone reading has ever sold a jersey, and still has more than one jersey in their "stockroom", then by definition, they are a dealer. I usually start off by giving a low priced jersey away. You seem to like the durene knit and the tackle twill. You say to yourself: "I could see myself paying for this." It is a good experience. You learn about heat-pressed numerals and nylon mesh. You are now a dyed-in-the-wool collector. Forget about taking your girl to the movies. You got a game-worn jones, way down deep in your bones.
Donruss, Fleer and Topps are gateways to the hard stuff.

[geoff]

I like it.And I am looking forward to the New Section so I can Buy.Sell.And Trade some Game Used Items that I am looking to move.

[ham1963]

I know what you mean geoff I have some game-used hats I would like to sell of trade
John
baseball3000@bellouth.net

[ChrisCavalier]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks again for the feedback and let me address some of the responses here:

1) Let me first clarify what GUU is providing to the collecting community. Collectors have the ability to post on the GUU forum for free and also have the ability to post items for sale up to $500 in the GUU collector to collector classified sections for free as well. We are doing this to help our members as well as the collecting community at large and the rationale behind the price limits has been stated in my previous post. If other sites wish to assume the potential risks of allowing anyone and everyone to sell high priced items for free without their evaluation than that is certainly their choice. It is simply not something we are interested in doing.

2) Someone brought up the reference to the fact that many collectors here will use eBay in addition to the GUU Collector to Collector Classified section and they don’t see a huge advantage between dealing with each other here and using eBay. I would say the main difference is probably that in the GUU Collector to Collector Classified section collectors will be able to sell their items without a fee.

3) We will also be opening another selling platform soon where the protocols will be similar to the ones used in our consignment auctions. That is, potential sellers will send GUU their items and we will do the evaluations, write-ups and general selling. The platform will also have the same mechanisms where collectors can publicly ask questions and anyone with substantiated information can provide responses to those questions. It is a model we believe goes to unprecedented lengths to make sure items are properly represented and fully understood before they are purchased.

Items that are sold that have been sent to GUU before listing will have a GUU certification so that buyers know the process the item went through prior to being purchased. If someone acquires an item through the Collector to Collector Classified section the item will not come with a GUU certification. That is, we will only allow the GUU name to be associated with items we have helped evaluate (along with the overall system) to help assure collectors know what they are getting. We are not becoming an authentication company and we will not be doing independent authentications. We will use the certification program simply to help collectors understand the process that was used for items sold through GUU.

4) In regard to the “dealer” versus “collector” question, the “Collector to Collector Classified” section is, as its name suggests, being set up for collectors. If an entity is making a living in the hobby and carries huge inventories or consignments, they would likely fall in the “dealer” category. Again, this forum is being set up for collectors and we trust others will not try to abuse the privileges we are extending.

I hope that provides some clarification on some of the posts made here. We are in the midst of following up on a number of things after getting back from the National Convention and Cowboy’s Training Camp but we should have the Collector to Collector Classified forum up either later tonight or tomorrow.

[Birdbats]

I had the chance to meet Chris in person at the National on Saturday, and we talked at length about this subject. It's obvious to me that Chris has thought long and hard about the best way to approach a sale section.

I tried to put myself in his shoes, thinking whether I'd want anybody to be able to sell items on my Web site. Knowing all the shady characters we've encountered in this hobby and remembering all the nasty transactions we've had on eBay and via other avenues, I simply can't imagine opening my site to the masses. It's about more than liability -- it's about reputation, and in the end, that's what defines us. If somebody used my site to sell fake items, that would reflect on the Birdbats name whether I had anything to do with the sale or not. I know I wouldn't be comfortable with that, which is why I can appreciate Chris' dilemma.

His solution is fair and thought out well... and I look forward to participating. Thanks, Chris.

[frikativ54]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks again for the feedback and let me address some of the responses here:

1) Let me first clarify what GUU is providing to the collecting community. Collectors have the ability to post on the GUU forum for free and also have the ability to post items for sale up to $500 in the GUU collector to collector classified sections for free as well. We are doing this to help our members as well as the collecting community at large and the rationale behind the price limits has been stated in my previous post. If other sites wish to assume the potential risks of allowing anyone and everyone to sell high priced items for free without their evaluation than that is certainly their choice. It is simply not something we are interested in doing.

Thanks for being amenable to our feedback about price limits. We appreciate your willingness to be a voice for the collecting community as a whole. :rolleyes:


Items that are sold that have been sent to GUU before listing will have a GUU certification so that buyers know the process the item went through prior to being purchased. If someone acquires an item through the Collector to Collector Classified section the item will not come with a GUU certification. That is, we will only allow the GUU name to be associated with items we have helped evaluate (along with the overall system) to help assure collectors know what they are getting. We are not becoming an authentication company and we will not be doing independent authentications. We will use the certification program simply to help collectors understand the process that was used for items sold through GUU.

GUU certification, huh? You guys are doing your best job to to make this site into a wannabe auction house. This was the same criticism leveled by the sellers of the Albert Pujols jersey on eBay. Honestly, I don't think you guys are capable of certifying items that are sent in for authentication. This is not a knock on you personally; I wouldn't be up to the task either. How are you expecting to have enough knowledge of player use characteristics, jersey sizes, etc. for thousands of players? What will that do for your reputation if you certify fake gamers? Isn't it a conflict of interest to be an informational site and at the same time be certifying gamers?

This was supposed to be an informational site. :( You are running the forum into the ground, and I don't like it.

[Fnazxc0114]

frik you know i was joking when i made that comment. my politics really are irrelevant. but i did figure the comment would get both laughs and might open a few eyes as well. so since you are nominating it for the quote of the year does that mean i get a g/u jersey with a lou loa.

[5kRunner]

Chris, thanks for the site and all the free stuff it has and continues to offer.

In my opinion, I find it a little rude and disrepectful that even though Chris has offered this compromise, some of you still want to complain.

[BIGSTIG]

I have made NO comments about any of this until now. It has nothing to do with Chris and the way the GUU staff wants to run this site. It is their site and they can do as they choose. They already go above and beyond for us.

My comment is for Frik - STOP YOUR BIT**ING. Every other post I read is you complaining about something. If you don't like the site LEAVE!! Start your own www.fricksworld.com (http://www.fricksworld.com) then you can make all the rules and be king.

Saying GUU won't have the knowledge to authenticate items, who are you to judge what they are and are not capable of? I have met some of the staff and they are VERY VERY good at what they do. Will it be a tough task for them to do...yes. Almost as tough of a task as it is for some of us to put up with your constent whining!!

Do me a favor, go grab a dicktionary keep reading it and continue being the grammar police, and stop annoying us with your negative attitude.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Do me a favor, go grab a dicktionary keep reading it and continue being the grammar police, and stop annoying us with your negative attitude.

Dicktionary? Now, that's just plain assinine.:)

[grandpahoo]

[/font]You are running the forum into the ground, and I don't like it.

If it makes you feel any better, if this were my site I would have banned you by now for continuing to piss and moan. Seriously man, either start your own site or sack up and deal.

[godwulf]

I've vastly enjoyed the conversation and exchange of information available on this site, and hope it stays around for a long, long time.

I've participated in one auction here, and was very satisfied with the item that I won, and the customer service of all involved.

I've also purchased one bat (less than $40 sale price) from a fellow Forum member, and traded another.

If I had an item to sell, and didn't like the conditions or rules as they exist in those parts of the Universe dedicated to that kind of thing, I guess I'd sell it someplace else. The same applies from the buying side.

Am I missing something here?

[3arod13]

I tried to put myself in his shoes, thinking whether I'd want anybody to be able to sell items on my Web site. Knowing all the shady characters we've encountered in this hobby and remembering all the nasty transactions we've had on eBay and via other avenues, I simply can't imagine opening my site to the masses. It's about more than liability -- it's about reputation, and in the end, that's what defines us. If somebody used my site to sell fake items, that would reflect on the Birdbats name whether I had anything to do with the sale or not. I know I wouldn't be comfortable with that, which is why I can appreciate Chris' dilemma.

Well said. I wouldn't want the headace either. I think what ever is offerred by the forum owners should be utilized by those who desire it, and appreciate it.

They have been taken a beating on this and I think some need to take a step back and appreciate what this site offers.

Many want to enjoy the use of this site, yet don't have to do any of the work it takes to run it.

As many have said in this thread, if you don't like what's offerred, maybe you can go else that satisifies your needs.

Just my thoughts. Not directed at anyone specific.

Regards, Tony

[Dewey2007]

Am I missing something here?

Godwulf, I don't think your missing anything. It sounds really simple what GUU has laid out in regards to their new "For Sale" platform. I think folks should just give it a chance before they start complaining.

It's human nature for people (myself included) to be resistant to change but to quote Run DMC, "it's like that and that's the way it is"

Mi dos pesos....

[Vintagedeputy]

Dicktionary? Now, that's just plain assinine.:)

That's just flat out funny, I don't care who ya are! Kudos!

[bigtruck260]

What constitutes a "dealer"? I have a bunch of jerseys in my closet, which is, I guess, could be called my inventory. I also have a website. I collect jerseys, but I also sell some to make ends meet. The term dealer is often used as a dirty word, like "pusher". Extra punishment for dealing that game worn junk around the Junior High. If anyone reading has ever sold a jersey, and still has more than one jersey in their "stockroom", then by definition, they are a dealer. I usually start off by giving a low priced jersey away. You seem to like the durene knit and the tackle twill. You say to yourself: "I could see myself paying for this." It is a good experience. You learn about heat-pressed numerals and nylon mesh. You are now a dyed-in-the-wool collector. Forget about taking your girl to the movies. You got a game-worn jones, way down deep in your bones.
Donruss, Fleer and Topps are gateways to the hard stuff.

You are my new hero. This is genius stuff.

I thought I would just say that this site has probably saved me enough money via the contacts I have made - to buy extra inventory. I consider myself a collector, but I also sell chunks off occasionally using several different mediums. Am I a dealer? I made a good amount of money in 2007-2008 selling merchandise...

Where does the line get crossed from Hobbyist to Dealer?

[reed1216]

No, it likely means the exact opposite - if the value of the items at issue is minimal, any lawsuit would likely end up in small claims court. If anything, limiting the value to $500 would keep GUU from having to call its attorneys.



A disclaimer may be helpful in defending against a lawsuit, but it doesn't preclude people from suing. And the cost of litigation is incredibly high, even if a claim has no merit.


Grandpahoo- I appreciate your response and would certainly defer to your legal knowledge.

I also want to thank Chris and those who participate in this forum for all that's contributed here. This forum, as well as the two hockey forums, have helped me to regain the enthusiasm that I had lost after dealing with shady people and getting burned multiple times on transactions during the 1990s. I feel like I'm a whole lot more educated and enjoy the exchanging of information with people I meet on these sites and I am very appreciative for the services that they provide.

I also think that it's healthy to have a debate on topics that effect our enjoyment of the hobby. I am relieved to read that the administrators are taking our feelings into account when devising the policies that govern this site and while I might not agree with them 100% of the time, I am very appreciative that they have developed a wonderful site that really does protect us from the scum that frequently surfaces in this hobby.

I also think it's a credit to Chris, Eric and the rest of the administrators that people have expressed themselves so passionately on this topic- agree or disagree. We need this site and we all want to help make it the best it can be. I also think that 99.9% of us will live with whatever policies come about and continue to participate with enthusiasm. I look forward to the for sale section returning to whatever extent it does, as it will allow for more interaction between collectors who care about this great hobby.

[trsent]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks again for the feedback and let me address some of the responses here:


4) In regard to the “dealer” versus “collector” question, the “Collector to Collector Classified” section is, as its name suggests, being set up for collectors. If an entity is making a living in the hobby and carries huge inventories or consignments, they would likely fall in the “dealer” category. Again, this forum is being set up for collectors and we trust others will not try to abuse the privileges we are extending.


Chris, I would think it shouldn't matter who is listing an item. You should reconsider this stance as I do not believe you can police who is making a living, a collector, a dealer or any other category we can determine. Will people have to submit photographs of their entire collection to be determined if they are a dealer or collector?

I would like a simple limit, say five items listed in a calender month, or maybe even less, would be an ample limit so you do not have to police who is a dealer and who is a collector. The police you have put fourth means that you would have to police who is maybe having their friends list items to hide behind a concept or any other games.

[Jays1fan]

I would like a simple limit, say five items listed in a calender month, or maybe even less, would be an ample limit so you do not have to police who is a dealer and who is a collector.

I was thinking on the Same Lines as this. I think 2 Items per Week is Fair.
Also , I would have it set up to where the Item Drops of the Board after a Month.
I would have it set up to where you could not respond to the board and you had to contact the seller by email. That way there is No bumping and it is a true Classifed Ad. This would REALLY make GUU not Liable.

[frikativ54]

Saying GUU won't have the knowledge to authenticate items, who are you to judge what they are and are not capable of? I have met some of the staff and they are VERY VERY good at what they do. Will it be a tough task for them to do...yes. Almost as tough of a task as it is for some of us to put up with your constent whining!!

I am not doubting the knowledge of the "powers that be" at Game Used Universe. Rather, I just think it's an impossible task to authenticate every item that is sent in. To be up to this task, one would have to know the use characteristics of thousands of players, and that is next to impossible. As Lou Lampson said, "Authentication takes time", and I don't know if Chris et al. will have the time it requires to authenticate items sent in beyond a reasonable doubt.

Here are some other questions I would like to have answered by site administrators:

1) Will Chris et al. be in the position of authenticating their own items?
2) Will donors to Game Used Universe have a more lenient authentication standard than do the rest of us?
3) Will top posters be given the benefit of the doubt on questionable items?
4) If a questionable item is "GUU Authenticated", will forum participants have the right to dispute the authenticity of the item?