Hof?????

[jetersbatboy]

I was thinking about a bunch of position players that I thought might make it to the HOF, from this current era (recently retired or active). Here my top 12 tell me what you think, or post guy you think I am missing.

1. JETER
2. AROD
3. PUJOLS
4. PIAZZA
5. GRIFFEY
6. PUDGE
7. ORTIZ
8. MANNY
9. BERNIE
10. POSADA
11. ICHIRO
12. SORIANO

I AM A YANKEES FAN IF YOU CANT TELL.

[yanks12025]

I think your list aint bad i dont agree with David Ortiz. And for Jorge he is going to need to have acouple of more good years. And for Bernie i think he'll be just like Don Mattingly who's always going to be on the voting.

[Sheffield11]

Yea as a yankee fan myself i cant really see bernie making it, if ortiz keeps it up he probably will just because he has been pretty clutch in their championships, and posada has a chance if he has a few more good years.

[CampWest]

May as well elect all yankees... ;)

1. JETER - yes
2. AROD - yes
3. PUJOLS - yes
4. PIAZZA - yes
5. GRIFFEY - yes
6. PUDGE - yes
7. ORTIZ - yes
8. MANNY - yes
9. BERNIE - no
10. POSADA - probably
11. ICHIRO - yes
12. SORIANO - no

Thats a pretty partial list, others that should be in... Bagwell, Biggio, Frank Thomas, Thome, Maddux, Clemens (depending on how they treat his character issues), Mariano Rivera. Just a few off top of my head.

Others to consider, Palmeiro, Smoltz, Pettite.

[shoremen44]

I was at first going to say you forgot the pitchers, but then I reread and you stated position players...

I agree with your list... but I dont think Ortiz, Bernie, or Soriano will make it...

Ortiz is a great hitter, but in an era of long ball guys and steriods he has a .287 ba, with only 279 hr, and 923 rbi... i dont think he plays long enough to get hof numbers...

Bernie was a great player on great teams, but again his numbers to me are pedestrian... .297 ba, 287hr, 1257 rbi (and didnt you say active players... I didnt think he was still playing)

and maybe its personal, but I never like Soriano...


As for others what about...

Chipper Jones.. career .310 BA, 401 hr, 1343 rbi

Vlad.. career .323. ba, 375 hr, 1212 rbi

[SkubeBats]

Here is my list of players who I think will make it to the Hall Of Fame.
1) Arod
2) Griffey
3)Manny
4)F. Thomas
5)Thome
6)Biggio
7)Pudge
8)Palmerio
9)Maddux
10)Glavine

I don't think Posada, Otiz, Soriano have any chance to make it to the HOF.
Thanks,
Jamie
jlschultz180@wi.rr.com

[geoff]

John smoltz and Randy Johnson should be added to the list as well.Also add Mike Mussina.

[suave1477]

I don't think Posada, Otiz, Soriano have any chance to make it to the HOF.
Thanks,
Jamie
jlschultz180@wi.rr.com


Wow I can't believe your saying Posada doesn't have a chance???? Next to Piazza hes the next best Catcher this era in baseball. Sure you can say Pudge but Posada will be known as the catcher with out the roids.

Not to mention Posada is on a faster pace to hit more home runs then Pudge.
Pudge came in 1991 HR 282
Posada 96 HR 221

Jorge Posada
4 World Series Rings
MVP Voting Twice
5 silver slugger awards
5 All Star games (Not to mention the numerous ones he would have made if it wasnt for Roids Pudge Rodriguez)

[Vintagedeputy]

+1 Posada and Mussina

[Yankwood]

I'm a Yankee fan but I can't put Mussina in. Not with what he's done so far. A very good pitcher but not a HOFer in my mind.

[Vintagedeputy]

I'm a Yankee fan but I can't put Mussina in. Not with what he's done so far. A very good pitcher but not a HOFer in my mind.


I consider Moose to be a Bunning type candidate. Check out his numbers..

- A 260-148 record, 3.71 era, 3400 innings pitched, 2700 strikeouts
- double digit wins every year since 1992 including 7 years of 17+ wins
- 5x all star

If he can get to 280+ wins, I think he's got a good shot

[Yankwood]

I consider Moose to be a Bunning type candidate. Check out his numbers..

- A 260-148 record, 3.71 era, 3400 innings pitched, 2700 strikeouts
- double digit wins every year since 1992 including 7 years of 17+ wins
- 5x all star

If he can get to 280+ wins, I think he's got a good shotYou are right. He has been a model of consistency, that's for sure. If he had more and better big game credentials and could stretch closer to 280 or so, I would be more in favor. Consistency is certainly a plus but I like to see more "peak" or "domination" in a HOFer. Certainly you have a case but just my opinion.

[MUSEOVEN]

Hello: Dont Forget Omar Vizquel...

[reed1216]

Here's my list... I included retired players that are not yet eligible...

IB- Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, Jeff Bagwell
2B- Craig Biggio, Roberto Alomar (don't think he's eligible yet)
3B- Chipper Jones
SS- Derek Jeter
OF- Vlad Guerrero, Manny Ramirez, Ken Griffey Jr., Ichiro
C- Ivan Rodriguez, Mike Piazza
P- Randy Johnson, John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Curt Schilling, Pedro Martinez, Trevor Hoffman, Mariano Rivera

Bubble guys- Mussina*, Posada*, Renteria, Ortiz, Helton*, Bernie Williams, Kent, Larkin*, Pujols*, Larry Walker

*I marked the guys here who I think have really good chances of getting in eventually. I also included Renteria as a bubble guy because I think he has a great shot at 3,000 hits. He just got to 2,000 and he's still relatively young.

I left off the players included in the Mitchell Report. Once one gets in, all the rest will. (Clemens, Bonds, Sheffield, Palmeiro, Sosa, etc...)

I also left off players that are in their prime, who haven't yet acheived the numbers I think they'll need to get elected. I put Pujols in as a bubble guy, but before he's done, I think he'll be a shoe in...

[reed1216]

Oh yeah, I also agree that Vizquel in a HOFer....

[reed1216]

I also neglected to include Alex Rodriguez as a shoe in. I'd have also included Pettitte as a bubble candidate, but for his inclusion in the Mitchell Report....

[Game Used Bats]

Oh yeah, I also agree that Vizquel in a HOFer....

Jeff Kent is a definite as his offensive numbers are maybe the best ever at his posistion.

Anthony

[skyking26]

I would not put Ortiz or Bernie in; numbers are just not there nor do I think they will be.

I am a numbers guy. While I like Dale Murphy, all the MVP's, etc, numbers do not lie, no HOF. I think Bernie and Ortiz are great players, but the numbers are not there and the Hall is reserved for GREATNESS, not NEAR-GREATNESS...

[reed1216]

Here's a link that monitors and ranks the greatest players and pitchers in baseball history. I enjoy reviewing it every so often, to see how the current players match up as they build on their stats throughout the season...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/hof_monitor.shtml

[jetersbatboy]

Bert I do agree with Vlad and Chipper are HOF. But I do belive bernie will make it maybe not as a 1st ballot guy, but he will get in. As for his numbers there are worse statistical player in the hall.

[jetersbatboy]

Bernie has better stats then guy's like Larry Doby in AVG. RBI. and HR, Tony Gwynn RBI. and HR, he best Paul Molitor in HR and is very close in RBI and AVG. Kirby Puckett in HR. and RBI Ozzie Smith in all 3 (ozzie did get in because of his glove) and pretty similar number to Robin Yount just to name a few not to mention in less games then most of these guys.

[shoremen44]

I just think that in the era Bernie played his numbers just arent strong enough... He was a great player, but when you think of his years playing, was he the best in the game?

[cjclong]

As far as Ivan Rodriguez, first you have no proof, only speculation he used steroids. Second, he is 10 times the defensive catcher Posoda is. Th only argument about Rodriguez defense is whether he is the very best ever. I'm a Yankee fan and I like Posoda, but unless he has a number of years like last year, which at his age is unlikely, I don't see him as a HOF player.

[jake33]

Fans are way to emotional when wanting to get their guy in the hall of fame. i was like that for Mattingly for years until i grew out of that and realized that 3-4 great years and 5 good years doesn't cut it.


Also, stating a current hofer's numbers agaist the guy youw ant to get it is not a plain level arguement. Different eras different circumstances. Just because some HOF'er is so-so, doesn't mean that x-player should get in.

[cjclong]

The argument about the HOF frequently seems to be whether a very good player should be in the Hall as well as great players. And which category a player falls in is each individuals opinion. As an example I think Benie Williams is a very good player but not a great one. I think Williams is like Tommy Henrich who played with the DiMaggio Yankee teams. Henrich was a fine clutch player and was called "Old Reliable" and helped the Yankees to a number of World series wins. DiMaggio was a great player and is in the HOF and Henrich isn't.

[suave1477]

As far as Ivan Rodriguez, first you have no proof, only speculation he used steroids. Second, he is 10 times the defensive catcher Posoda is. Th only argument about Rodriguez defense is whether he is the very best ever. I'm a Yankee fan and I like Posoda, but unless he has a number of years like last year, which at his age is unlikely, I don't see him as a HOF player.

CJCLONG I hear ya, you want to stick up for Rodriguez.

And you can say its speculation but he didnt get the nickname Pudge because he was fat lol lol

You can talk about his defensive skills but that was because of Performance enhancement drugs, they dont just apply to Offense but they help you defensively.

And again if you look at Posadas Offense numbers quite a few of them are better then Pudges and it was done naturally.

[cjclong]

When Pudge first came up he was a star defensively with an incredible arm and that was Long before there were any allegations of steroids. His footwork has always been excellent and that has nothing to do with drugs. And if he had used anything that would have just evened out the 100 degree heat in Texas that would exhaust anyone, especially a catcher who caught nearly every day, that Posoda never had to deal with.

[suave1477]

CJCLONG you said Rodriguez was good since before the alegations did you ever thing it might have been possible he was taking them since he started.

As far as heat I agree Posada didn't have to play in the same exact hat but not for nothing the heat index on the field in the middle of summer goes way up no matter where you play.

I went to an orioles game in mid summer 2 years ago and they said the temp was 90 degrees they said the on field heat index was 110 and trust me you can feel the heat coming off the field, it was so bad we left after the 7th inning.

So the same goes for Posada and Yankees stadium although he may not feel it a !00% of the time he still does feel it a lot.

[cjclong]

Suave, "Pudge" got his name as a kid growing up in Puero Rico. Is it possible he was using steroids as a kid there or when he first started with the Rangers. I guess anything is possible but its unlikely to the point of being non existent. Even the "accuse everybody of steroids use guy " Canseco doesn't say that. As far as the heat, I've lived in Texas most of my life and I know what its like here. And I've been to enough games in the east to know there is NO comparison. I drove down to Houston to see the Yankees series and as I was driving home at 8pm the temperature was 95 degrees. It doesn't even get cool here even at night and its not August yet. In addition to their other problems one reason the Rangers can't players to come here is because they don't want to wear out during the scorching June, July and August weather. That's why the Astros built a stadium with a roof so it could be air conditioned. I have never heard of a player who said they wouldn't come to New York or Baltimore because of the weather. I truly don't know how Pudge was able to catch nearly every day here for years and not totally wear out. I was only half joking when I said if he took steroids it just even things out. I truly believe if he had played for the Yankees his batting average would have been 20 points higher.

[jetersbatboy]

this is a HOF thread not a steroid one. I'll start a steroid thread for you two guys

[Nathan]

Bernie has better stats then guy's like Larry Doby in AVG. RBI. and HR, Tony Gwynn RBI. and HR, he best Paul Molitor in HR and is very close in RBI and AVG. Kirby Puckett in HR. and RBI Ozzie Smith in all 3 (ozzie did get in because of his glove) and pretty similar number to Robin Yount just to name a few not to mention in less games then most of these guys.

I can do that too. I can build a player with...

Better batting average than Rob Deer
More home runs than Duane Kuiper
Fewer strikeouts than Bobby Bonds
Higher OBP than Bill Bergen
Better fielding percentage than Jose Offerman
Better looking than Don Mossi
Taller than Eddie Gaedel
Nicer than Barry Bonds

[Yankwood]

I can do that too. I can build a player with...

Better batting average than Rob Deer
More home runs than Duane Kuiper
Fewer strikeouts than Bobby Bonds
Higher OBP than Bill Bergen
Better fielding percentage than Jose Offerman
Better looking than Don Mossi
Taller than Eddie Gaedel
Nicer than Barry BondsI'll buy all of this but not the part about Mossi.....

[ndevlin]

Haha, Don Mossi is a swell guy. We've written back and fourth for years.

I'll make this quick with the names some of you listed.

Bernie Williams is not a HOF
Vlad G.--- Not a HOF'er, as of yet.
Chipper Jones-- Love the guy, but may need just a tid bit more to get in, but he probably will.
Posada--Needs more but I think he will stay consistent and has a strong chance.
Ortiz--- Great power guy, but with his injuries/age/and the fact that he doesnt play defense, just DH, he has no chance
Mussina---- A no go for me
Smoltz--- I think he will only get in because he's a fan favorite.

And to answer ESPN's poll question whether Curt Schilling is a HOF'er or not(which 65% said he was) He is NOT a HOF'er. Good pitcher, but not a HOF'er.

R. Alomar, Biggio, Vizquel(close) and Piazza are HOF'ers

[Nathan]

I'll buy all of this but not the part about Mossi.....

It reminds me of something Jeff Foxworthy said.

"Women think they have this system where they can tell how well endowed a man is. They'll think 'Oh, if he's got big hands', or 'he's got big ears' or 'he's got a big nose'. He'd better be packing, because that's one hell of a goofy looking dude!"