Need Your Thoughts On What makes a Game Used Bat Rare & Desireable?

[3arod13]

Need Your Thoughts On What makes a Game Used Bat Rare & Desireable?

I realize HR bats, etc. are desireable, however;

Many players use different model bats. Early in their careers, they try many bats until they find what they like.

If a player used a Rawlings bat early in their career (1st year), then never uses a Rawlings bat again and mainly used a LVS bat throughout their career, does it make the Rawlings bat much more desireable, because there are so few?

Thanks, Tony

[metsbats]

Tony,

Good question. If it's a player's first year, rookie year, then I think the bat would be more valuable only because it would be considered a rookie bat.

A good example of this would be Ryne Sandberg who used HB's during his early years but used Rawlings for majority of the rest of his career.

David

[TFig27]

I believe that people want a bat that a player is known to use. Meaning, what they see in pictures, tv, and in person -- that player with that particular brand/model of bat.

But, after a few of those, the player collectors will look for that unique bat that maybe was only tried once by a player. Or, different color combinations or handle variations between bats. That's what makes it fun. You can have three of the "same" bats, but they can all be different.

[MSpecht]

Hi Tony

I removed this thread from the other 'Auction Items' forum in order to consolidate it here.

If I have a choice between 2 bats (not counting 'special achievement' bats like specific HR, record-setting, etc.), here are my personal preferences:

1- Rookie era bat (first or second year) the earlier the better;
2- If the bat can be documented to a specific season, I prefer a season where the player had a strong year at the plate, an all star selection season, a World Championship season, etc:
3. A player's Bi-centennial bat from 1976 (documented in H & B records)--- they are just too cool.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com (Jackitout7@aol.com)

[3arod13]

Hi Tony

I removed this thread from the other 'Auction Items' forum in order to consolidate it here.

If I have a choice between 2 bats (not counting 'special achievement' bats like specific HR, record-setting, etc.), here are my personal preferences:

1- Rookie era bat (first or second year) the earlier the better;
2- If the bat can be documented to a specific season, I prefer a season where the player had a strong year at the plate, an all star selection season, a World Championship season, etc:
3. A player's Bi-centennial bat from 1976 (documented in H & B records)--- they are just too cool.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com (Jackitout7@aol.com)

Mike,

Thanks! It wasn't until I made the post, that I realized I was in the wrong category.

[3arod13]

Great comments, thanks!

As we all know, there are thousands of Alex Rodriguez Game Used Bats out there. We also know there are many that are signed Game Used, yet we all know his history and signing habits of Game Used stuff.

The 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used HR #15 (20th HR of his career) Bat that I own I believe is a pretty rare bat to own. Considering I also have a letter from Rawlings stating only 12 bats were ordered by Arod in 1996, makes it even that much nicer.

Unfortuntely, 1995 is considered Arod's Rookie Season. He play 17 games in 1994, 48 in 1995, and his first full season was in 1996.

So although this isn't considered a rookie bat, it is a HR bat from his first full season.
1996: First full season and breakout year

The following year, Rodriguez took over as the Mariners' regular shortstop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortstop) (SS) and emerged as a star player, hitting 36 HR, driving in 123 runs, and pacing the American League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_League) (AL) with a .358 batting average (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batting_average), the highest for an AL right-handed batter since Joe DiMaggio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_DiMaggio) hit .381 in 1939 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_in_baseball) and the 3rd highest ever for an SS. At 21 years and one month, he was the 3rd youngest AL batting leader ever behind Al Kaline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Kaline) (20) in 1955 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_in_baseball) and Ty Cobb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ty_Cobb) (20) in 1907 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1907_in_baseball), and the 3rd youngest player in history with 35+ homers. He was also the 1st major league SS to win a batting title (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_batting_champions) since 1960 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_in_baseball), and the 1st in the AL since 1944 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1944_in_baseball), and at 20 years, 11 months, was the youngest SS in All-Star Game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLB_All-Star_Game) history. He also led the AL in runs (141), total bases (379), and doubles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_%28baseball%29) (54) and ranked among the league leaders in hits (2nd, 215), extra base hits (2nd, 91), multi-hit games (3rd, 65), slugging (4th, .631), RBI (8th, 123), and on-base percentage (8th, .414). Rodriguez posted the highest totals ever for a shortstop in runs, hits, doubles, extra base hits, and slugging, and tied most total bases, and established Seattle club records for average, runs, hits, doubles, and total bases, in a season that statistical analysts consider the best ever by an SS.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Rodriguez#cite_note-6)

He was selected by both The Sporting News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sporting_News) and Associated Press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press) as the Major League Player of the Year, and came close to becoming the youngest MVP (Most Valuable Player) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) in baseball history, finishing second to Juan González (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Gonz%C3%A1lez_%28baseball_player%29) in one of the most controversial MVP elections in recent times.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Rodriguez#cite_note-7) He finished three points behind González (290-287), matching the 2nd closest A.L. MVP voting in history.

[yanks12025]

I have a quick question would the players game used bat be a pre-rookie if he didn't play the amount of games to be a rookie. Like you said A-rod only played 17 in 1994 and 48 in 1995 so bats from those years are pre-rookie bats. Just want to clear this up.

[3arod13]

I have a quick question would the players game used bat be a pre-rookie if he didn't play the amount of games to be a rookie. Like you said A-rod only played 17 in 1994 and 48 in 1995 so bats from those years are pre-rookie bats. Just want to clear this up.

I guess you could say that for 1994 (17 games). 1995 (48 games) was considered his rookie year. 1996 (146 games) was his first full season.

[CollectGU]

I think many collectors prefer the bat that they are familiar seeing the player use for much of his career and will pay a premium for it no matter how rare another bat is to that player.

Regards,
Dave

[eGameUsed]

Dave,

You make a good point! As many of you know, I consider myself THE Biggio bat guy. I currently have a waiting list of 18 people looking for Biggio bats and 15 of the 18 are looking for M9s, mostly because that is what they watched Biggio use his last 3 years.

Thanks,

[3arod13]

I think many collectors prefer the bat that they are familiar seeing the player use for much of his career and will pay a premium for it no matter how rare another bat is to that player.

Regards,
Dave

Understand. However, for myself, I want that item that is not so common.

Thanks for everyones input/comment.

Tony

[ndevlin]

I thought a first official rookie season had something to do with how many at bats and games that particular person played in. Here's a piece from MLB, IF you are using it to determine a players year.

A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the period of 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service and time on the disabled list).

[3arod13]

I thought a first official rookie season had something to do with how many at bats and games that particular person played in. Here's a piece from MLB, IF you are using it to determine a players year.

A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the period of 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service and time on the disabled list).

Alex Rodriguez played 48 games in 1995, and had 142 at bats. Rookie Season

[MSpecht]

The definition of "Rookie" vs. "Pre-rookie" wasn't covered in Vince's recent book, but my opinion (and what I base my personal collecting on) is that any Major League use up to, and including, the season where the player qualifies under Major League guidelines as a Rookie would be considered a "rookie-era" bat. The primary distinction for collectors, again in my opinion, would be whether the bat was used in the Minor Leagues or the Major Leagues. I am sure there are people out there that will stretch out the term 'rookie-era" as long as possible (say the first 5 years of a 23-year career) for marketing (financial) purposes.

mike jackitout7@aol.com

[metsbats]

Part of the problem when we try to apply the "Rookie year" mystique to game used bats the same way we apply it to baseball cards, is unless the player won the ROY award or were close runner ups, most players don't really have spectacular rookie seasons.

So the irony is that we desire the rookie bat of a player who is a superstar and perhaps a HOFer but the player might not have had much success that first year using that particular bat.

Same idea with the players last year or final season gamers.

David

[cjmedina1]

Tony

This a is a great topic.In talking with a few MAC collectors about which bat would they rather have...Most said they would want to have a bat from 1987 season,While others said a 1986 bat.MAC did play some games in 1986,But since NO ONE has access to Rawlings bat orders it will be very hard to determine if that bat indeed made it to a game in 86. Just an FYI I was the only guy who wanted both bats :D LOL

So my question to you is HOW did you get Rawlings verify the bat for you?Was it a secret hand shake? Just by seeing the Letter from them,That tells me they did keep some type of records?

Mike S,Jim C,John T,Vince M,Troy K,Dave B
I know you all have tried to get them to open up the books but nothing came about.I'm only assume Rawlings wasn't ready or they just don't care. I'm curious if another attempt is going to be made?

Carlie Medina III
carliemedinaiii@sbcglobal.net

[metsbats]

Hi Carlie,

From 1980- present Rawlings bats are probably the easiest bats to date to a particular year since the year code is stamped on the knobs. So it would be easy to date a Mac bat made in 86 verses 87. The Rawlings center brand did change the latter part of 1986 to the large "RAWLINGS" branding which started in 87 so there are 1986 stamped bats with the 87 labeling.

If i'm understanding your question are you looking for player order and model numbers from Rawlings?

The closest I ever got with Rawlings to give info was for a 2000 Mike Piazza NLCS bat which was stamped with his model number and "NLCS" on the knob. I spoke with Bill Steele from Rawlings who actually told me yes we did make NLCS bats for Piazza in 2000 but couldn't explain the absence of the year stamp. Not that is matters as the Mets don't make it to the post season that often so it would be easy to date which NLCS the bats was made for.

I'd also be interested if Jim C ever got Rawlings to open up as I did have this conversation with Jim off line a couple of years ago.

David


David

[cjmedina1]

Hi David

In reading my post I wasn't clear about my point.I totally understand about the dating of all Rawlings bat from the 80's till now. I was trying to point out if would be very difficult to pin point my 86 gamer.Was it a minor league bat or a bat that was used when he got called up to play in 86? Maybe some day we all will be able to match up the number to actual order dates.That would be cool.

For the record I do have at least one MAC minor League bat that dates to the 85/86 season.I have written letter from the bat boy and it has a COA from PSA/DNA....

Here the LS bat and a 1986 Rawlings bat

[joelsabi]

what make a arod bat desirable to me

1) has medium-heavy game use: the more the better. if it has little use might as well pay the price of an unused model.
2) has player charateristics : cleats marks, pinetar, number on knob
3) bat out of the ordinary: almost every one has a model C271
4) a bat with a story: i like the griffey model bat that arod borrowed. like the griffey tape job and one of these was once confiscated by umps at a baltimore game in 1996.
5) bat that cannot be confused as a BP bat
6) bat with solid documentation: verbal is not enough.

[3arod13]

Tony

This a is a great topic.In talking with a few MAC collectors about which bat would they rather have...Most said they would want to have a bat from 1987 season,While others said a 1986 bat.MAC did play some games in 1986,But since NO ONE has access to Rawlings bat orders it will be very hard to determine if that bat indeed made it to a game in 86. Just an FYI I was the only guy who wanted both bats :D LOL

So my question to you is HOW did you get Rawlings verify the bat for you?Was it a secret hand shake? Just by seeing the Letter from them,That tells me they did keep some type of records?

Mike S,Jim C,John T,Vince M,Troy K,Dave B
I know you all have tried to get them to open up the books but nothing came about.I'm only assume Rawlings wasn't ready or they just don't care. I'm curious if another attempt is going to be made?

Carlie Medina III
carliemedinaiii@sbcglobal.net

Carlie,

No favors. I just wrote to Rawlings and explained my situation about the Arod bat I owned. It wasn't easy. To be honest, I didn't think anything would come of it. It took a long time. If I have to pinpoint one thing that may have been considered, was my military service. At that time, I served 28 years. I believe it was just something nice they considered doing for my military service.

Mr. Steele expressed that he was very busy and it is very difficult to find time to go back through records to find specific information on bats.

As frustrating it is to many in the hobby, in my opinion, I don't see why bat companies don't open this information to the public. Add pictures and bat information year by year on their websites. With the problems in the hobby today, I believe this would help tremendously.

Tony

[3arod13]

I have a Cooper bat that I have been researching over the past few months. I contacted Doug Hamel of KR3Bats, who now owns what was the old Cooper Bat Company, and even he is having a difficult time finding info.

As shown in the picture, I found 3 different Cooper bats with different strips on the labeling band:

- One Foil
- One Dark Blue Strip
- ONe Light Blue Strip

I have been trying to find the labeling periods (years) for these 3 different bats.

He has been tyring to be helpful, but just can't find the time to do so.

I also contact Louisivlle Slugger on a few bats, and even they find it difficult sometimes to go back and find accurate information.

Again, I think it's a good thing if bat information became public record. Not sure however if because players order these bats, it becomes a privacy issue.

Tony

[3arod13]

Anyone who may know where I can find info on Coopers bats, to determine the years for these three bats, would be much appreciated.

I searched the internet for months and can't find a thing. Checked ebay, but sellers who are selling Cooper bats don't seem to know either.

[metsbats]

Anyone who may know where I can find info on Coopers bats, to determine the years for these three bats, would be much appreciated.

I searched the internet for months and can't find a thing. Checked ebay, but sellers who are selling Cooper bats don't seem to know either.


Tony,

I have old articles from SCD (Tim Lee's column) and have one which talks about Cooper bats.

Please email me at metsbats86@aol.com and i can send you a copy.

Thanks
-David

[metsbats]

Carlie,

Thanks for the clarification. You want to pinpoint usage to the majors verses minors in 86 for the bats.

Nice bats!

David

[3arod13]

Tony,

I have old articles from SCD (Tim Lee's column) and have one which talks about Cooper bats.

Please email me at metsbats86@aol.com and i can send you a copy.

Thanks
-David

David, does it provide any info about the labeling periods, colored bands, etc.?

Tony

[3arod13]

I believe that people want a bat that a player is known to use. Meaning, what they see in pictures, tv, and in person -- that player with that particular brand/model of bat.

But, after a few of those, the player collectors will look for that unique bat that maybe was only tried once by a player. Or, different color combinations or handle variations between bats. That's what makes it fun. You can have three of the "same" bats, but they can all be different.

Ok, maybe the average fan that wants a game used bat of their favorite player.

But what about your seasoned die-hard game used bat collector. Wouldn't they want that one bat in their collection that is very limited or rare?

If Derek Jeter used a P72 majority of the time throughout his career, but only used a Rawlings bat in 1996, wouldn't a seasoned die-hard Jeter collector want that bat in their collection? If there are thousands of P72's out there, any many collectors have one, how many would be able to say that have a Rawlings Gamer that Jeter used in 1996?

To me, that's what I look for.