Players' Politics and Religion

[frikativ54]

As I am selling off my entire Lance Berkman collection, I am wondering if anybody else has stopped collecting a player because of his religious or political views? I don't have a problem with guys of different faiths and politics, but what annoys the heck out of me is when athletes are vociferous about it. Berkman, for instance, has been outspoken about his conservative Christian beliefs and decries what he sees as the "wishy-washy mentality". He also has sponsored a men-only Bible study group where he declares that God has put men in positions of leadership for His purposes - I am left wondering what he thinks of women's place in governance. Berkman has also said that Jesus is the only source of all morality, making me feel like I am immoral because my family isn't Christian. I enjoy reading about how faith and politics shape a ballplayer's life, but I just can't continue collecting Berkman, given that when I watch him I think "There's the guy who, if he knew me, would see me as a wishy-washy immoral non-Christian political moderate." Any thoughts?

[Fnazxc0114]

i dont think there is anything wrong with Lance Berkman preaching what he believe. Lance Berkman discussing his beliefs is no different than what you just did.

[David]

They're grown men being paid a king's ransom to play a child's game-- I have no great need to hear their thoughts on world politics, the meaning of life or quantum physics.

[allstarsplus]

Berkman has also said that Jesus is the only source of all morality, making me feel like I am immoral because my family isn't Christian. I enjoy reading about how faith and politics shape a ballplayer's life, but I just can't continue collecting Berkman, given that when I watch him I think "There's the guy who, if he knew me, would see me as a wishy-washy immoral non-Christian political moderate." Any thoughts?

I find this an uncomfortable Thread that probably shouldn't have been started here, but since you Posted my thoughts are "That's why they have the old saying about mixing Religion & Politics!"

Berkman has the right under freedom of speech to say just about anything he wants to and you have the right to safely dump his stuff and burn it in a trashcan if you wanted to which is your freedom of expression. Isn't America Great!!!!

If Berkman made that exact statement above which I put in bold print, I find that offensive as it sounds no different than some of the scary talk you get out of the east side of the Middle East, and you can probably read between the lines on what I am getting at.

Again, if Berkman used those words he needs some "sensitivity" training as you are correct that anyone else is "immoral" if they don't follow his statement.

[cohibasmoker]

As I am selling off my entire Lance Berkman collection, I am wondering if anybody else has stopped collecting a player because of his religious or political views? I don't have a problem with guys of different faiths and politics, but what annoys the heck out of me is when athletes are vociferous about it. Berkman, for instance, has been outspoken about his conservative Christian beliefs and decries what he sees as the "wishy-washy mentality". He also has sponsored a men-only Bible study group where he declares that God has put men in positions of leadership for His purposes - I am left wondering what he thinks of women's place in governance. Berkman has also said that Jesus is the only source of all morality, making me feel like I am immoral because my family isn't Christian. I enjoy reading about how faith and politics shape a ballplayer's life, but I just can't continue collecting Berkman, given that when I watch him I think "There's the guy who, if he knew me, would see me as a wishy-washy immoral non-Christian political moderate." Any thoughts?

I wonder if you would have the same problems with Mr. Berkman if instead of being Christian, he was either a conservative Muslim or Jewish and outspoken about his Muslim or Jewish beliefs?

Jim

[TNTtoys]

Regarding Berkman's statement, I believe that there is a place where it might be appropriate (within the confines of his own church group, where there is no risk of offending anyone), and a place where it isn't (out in the public, and for obvious reasons). I don't know all of the facts behind his statement, so I definitely will not add any further comments. It does ring a tune of familiarity, however, where someone of celebrity status feels the need to force-feed their beliefs onto the public, whether political or religious (i.e. Sean Penn's need to speak about the war). Bottom line is that most of us don't want to hear this... these people are Hollywood actors or professional ballplayers, not rhodes scholars...

As an answer to your question, I believe it is a bit more broad a topic than politics and religion. I take it as such -- was there something an athlete or celebrity did that has made you stop collecting or following them?
For example: how many fans did Mel Gibson lose after his rant following a run-in with the police? how many fans did Madonna lose when she burned a field of crucifixes in a music video? or (back to the theme of this forum) how many OJ Simpson fans parted with their memorabilia in 1994? Over time, I am sure many of us have decided that a piece or two of our collection was not an item that they felt right holding onto based on our own morals... and this is one of the many merits of our society.

[RobSteinmetz]

Guys,

This thread has the potential to get ugly very quickly. Let's stay focused on the question in the original post:

Has anyone stopped collecting a player because of his religious or political views?

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Best,

Rob

[bigtruck260]

Never.

Now, if one of the Cardinals players I have in my collection decides to open up a chapter of NAMBLA...goodbye.

Did you guys ever watch Major League? Certain characters on a team make it more colorful - and in Berkman's case, he is simply a great player.

Yes, he says some things that make me scratch me head, but if he continues to smash the ball, he makes the game exciting - even though I dislike him and his team:D

Can you say with 100% certainty that you would not get onto a soap box if you had an audience of millions Frik? Everyone is entitled to a viewpoint, even if it bugs some people. However, if you want to turd your Berkman collection, good for you...you have every right.

It's the things that the players keep secret that I worry about...

[Vintagedeputy]

I guess Berkman never heard of the separation of Church and Plate.....

http://www.washingtonparish.org/Christ%20Church%20Photo.jpg


http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/DGV/DGV083/brick-wall-close-up_~200355728-001.jpg


http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3283105/2/istockphoto_3283105_first_base_line.jpg

[cjclong]

I followed O J Simpson's career when he was at USC and when he was in professional football. I didn't have any memorabilia of his, but I did have a number of magazines from his time with both college and the pros. My first reaction when I heard about his wife's murder and the fact that the police wanted to question him was to hope he was not in any way involved. The events of the trial have totally changed the way I feel about him and I don't even want to see his face on television now. I think most of us try to separate an athlete's personal beliefs from their on the field performance. But I think a player's actions can make fans change the way they felt about him, which I understand was the question in this post.

[momen55]

that is why i like and admire roberto clemente. he was the same on the field as well as off. i have known his wife for years and she has told me what a great man he was; husband, father, humanitarian. that is what made him a superstar, well, in my eyes anyway.:)

[gingi79]

I think it's great that everyone has shown such restraint and maturity with this issue. It is a tribute to the forum.

I honestly don't care about a person's religious or political views. If Yunel Escobar or Jeff Francoeur comes out as a Communist or a devout Muslim but hits .310 and helps the Braves win the Series, more power to him. If his thoughts and feelings on religion or politics give him strength and makes him a better Baseball player than I'm happy for both him and I.

I dumped my OJ Simpson rookie card in 1994 however as I refuse to have anything associated with a murderer. Coincidentally, I got more for it then than I could ever have before or since.

As has been said before, isn't America great? We can all disagree and yet still co-exist.

I do however prescribe to the "Kept they opinions and beliefs to thyself" mantra. It's none of my business.

[Vintagedeputy]

[quote=gingi79;84639]

I dumped my OJ Simpson rookie card in 1994 however as I refuse to have anything associated with a murderer.

quote]


+1

[Danny899]

[quote=gingi79;84639]

I dumped my OJ Simpson rookie card in 1994 however as I refuse to have anything associated with a murderer.

quote]


+1

Deputy, I agree with you 500 % as I know just how you feel. It's probably only a matter of time however before someone comes on here and reminds you that he was aquitted.

[eGameUsed]

I thought OJ was found not-guilty! Doesn't that mean he is not a murderer! Man, I shouldn't have openned my mouth!

Frik,

I have had the chance to meet Lance Berkman personally. I actually was at the flag football game at Second Baptist Church in Houston when he busted his knee prior to the 2005 season. Even though I differ in regards to how I spread my opinions and views on life, I personally don't have a problem with his choice to do that! In fact, I think his ability to be opinionated on any given subject and convey that in such a public way is what he deserves for not having any privacy. Sure, they make a lot of money, but for that money comes never being able to go to the store, restaurant, movies, a walk in the park, on vacation, travel in an airplane, or anything else without being disturbed, accosted, or get an autograph request.

Lance is a great ball player, devoted father and husband, role model, and great teammate. He spends a great amount of time along with his wife, Cara, on charity efforts with multiple organizations. There are many collected ball players that have affairs while on road trips, date or marry strippers, are alcoholics, or use drugs. Again, even though I disagree with some of the things people say or do, I would rather player be outspoken about his religious beliefs then be a loser!

All in all, I agree that we live in awesome society! We can agrue, disagree, agree, or whatever. We also can make decisions on what we collect! I happen to be a huge Berkman collector because of what he does on the field. Just my 2 cents!

Thanks,

[Fnazxc0114]

I am surprised that this hasn't gotten out of hand, or maybe nobody has taken the bait. I know that Frik isn't trying to start anything but it seems that any time politics, religion, and people's mamas get brought up it could get out of hand pretty quick.

[TNTtoys]

I agree that the conversation has stayed very mature. I have seen far more trivial things discussed here and watched them get way out of hand very quickly... so kudos to the members of GUU who have contributed.

On a very similar note, I noticed that someone listed a Jose Offerman bat on ebay tonight. Now, he's someone I definitely would never add to my personal collection, despite his having spent time with my Mets... His recent behavior on the field was inexcusable... and as a father of young boys who are involved with team sports, I make a conscious choice not to collect someone whose actions on the field portray everything I teach my boys not to be (athletes are role models whether they like it or not). By collecting his memorabilia (in my opinion), I would be making the statement that I condone his actions.

[RobSteinmetz]

This thread is turning into a political debate that has no benefit to the collecting community. I deleted a number of posts this morning, and I'm now locking the thread. If you wish to discuss your political or religious views, find another forum.

Thanks!

Rob