Stengel Yankees Jersey?

[Eric]

Can anyone help me narrow down the date on the Casey Stengel Yankees Old Timers jersey in the Mastronet auction?

The auction lists it as
Offered here is a complete New York Yankees road uniform worn by Hall of Fame skipper Casey Stengel during a post-career old-timers game. This gray knit ensemble was quite possibly donned by Stengel at an old-timers exhibition staged in 1970 at Anaheim Stadium, as expense report records reveal the managerial legend to have made the trip. The button-down jersey boasts "NEW YORK" arched across the chest in blue-on-white double tackle twill and Stengel's since-retired (by both the Mets and Yankees) number "37" applied to the back in like fashion. Blue-and-white striped stretch ribbed cotton surrounds the sleeve openings and, situated within the cotton-lined collar, a "Wilson" size "44" manufacturer's label is sewn above a pair of strip tags that bear blue-ballpoint notations of "#37 STENGEL - SET 1 - 44-36." Graded A-6 by MEARS.
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The MEARS letter states it is "circa 1974-78"

A quick look on google shows Casey died 9-29-75, so I'm guessing that actually narrows it to circa 1974-75. Can anyone tell by the tagging and lettering style if it is closer to 1970 or 1974?

Here are pics

http://images.mastronet.com/images/Auction34/photographs/47881a.jpg

http://images.mastronet.com/images/Auction34/photographs/47881b.jpg

Any help is appreciated
Eric

[Eric]

Any Yankees experts out there?
Eric

[Mike Heffner]

Eric,

If Stengel wore this jersey it would have had to be in 1974 or 1975. The Wilson tag is void of the red vertical line between the washing instuctions and the size. This would indicate that the jersey was made after 1973. Stengel passed away in 1975. His health was not the best in the world during the final years of his life and this is road jersey suggesting that he would have attended and old timers game some place other than Yankee Stadium.

Mike Heffner

[suave1477]

Well as far as what Mike is saying that it is an away jersey which suggests it was not used in yankee stadium but somewhere else. UMMMMM it says that in the description. Another thing I would like to point out is in the description it doesnt say this jersey was actually worn by stengel they just beleive it to be his bcuz some records show that he flew out there. As far as I am concerened that doesn't mean much to me. You have to show me a bit more then a boarding pass to california for me to feel comfortable buying an item that might have been worn by stengel, or who knows it could have been worn by jimmy the hot dog guy.

[Eric]

FYI the old times game in anaheim the auction description refers to is from 1970. There's no mention of anything from 1974 or 75.

I know Casey lived in Glendale, CA so it's possible he could have gone to an old timers day game in 74, less likely in 75

I wish there was a way to determine who was on the roster of the 74 old timers day game in anaheim

Eric

[kingjammy24]

I can't see the Wilson tag or whatever seems to be strip-tagged underneath it. What are those 2 long white strips? I suspect those 2 long white strips may go a long way in revealing what this jersey is.

Secondly, when did Wilson start tagging Yankees jerseys in the neck? I'm of the opinion that during the early-mid 70's, they were manufacturer tagged in the tail.

Thirdly, where is the typical Yankees strip tagging showing the last name in swirly script? No year/set strip tag either?

Fourthly, I would caution against applying the "rules" of Wilson body tagging to Wilson neck tagging. In my experience, when Wilson tagged a jersey in the neck, the manufacturer tags were often different from those that were sewn onto the body. While it may not apply in this specific case, I'm simply offering a warning against applying the same principles to both Wilson neck and body tags.

Rudy.

[suave1477]

Rudy remember this is not an actual game jersey it is an Old timers day jersey of the 70's, which may change all the rules all together about the tagging!!! I am not sure about this but i dont know if they actually put names on the tagging of old timers day game jerseys.

[kingjammy24]

You know what's funny? When people post without reading :D Oh well..if this were supposed to be a game jersey, at least you've got my 2 bits. I really miss the edit button sometimes.

Anyway, dating a Yankee jersey with the fonts/numbers? Good luck. Those haven't changed since the early 70's. I'd say the only hope would be the Wilson tag. This is made difficult because it's tagged in the neck and I simply don't know about Wilson neck tags specifically. I still stand by the opinion that I wouldn't apply the same criteria that I have for Wilson body tags. At any rate, a close-up of the Wilson tag may be the best bet. I would also still try to find out when the Yankees possibly received Wilson jerseys that were tagged in the neck rather than the body.

Other than that, what else could you possibly use the date the jersey? I've looked at a myriad of Yankee road jerseys over the past 20 yrs and to my eye, everything has remained the same. Even the buttons! Rip off that Wilson tag, and I don't know if I'm looking at a '75 or an '85.

It looks like something was scratched out on one of the crude little strip tags? (At the end of the bottom tag). What was scratched out? I'd like to see a close-up of that.

Any evidence of it ever having any patches/memorials?

Rudy.

[flaco1801]

if stengal made the trip and wore that jersey it would have to be a flannel. knits began 71 or 72

[Mike Heffner]

The whole point of my post was that Wilson did not begin to use that tag until 1974. It does not matter where the tag is located, the jersey could not have been made prior to 1974 unless the original tag fell out and was replaced in 1974 or thereafter-and that scenario would be a far stretch. I do agree with Rudy that it is not typical to see this Wilson tag in the collar of a Yankee jersey rather than the front tail.

Mike

[Swoboda4]

That type jersey is wrong for the Yankees in 1970. "flaco1801" is correct to suggest Stengel would have worn a flannel. The Yankees only started wearing the doulble knit(with its two-toned "New York") in 1973. Prior to that it was flannel with plain "New York" lettering. Attached is timeline of uniforms for 1970- 1974
:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/exhibits/online_exhibits/dressed_to_the_nines/uniforms.asp?league=AL&city=New+York&lowYear=1970&highYear=1974&sort=year&increment=9

[Eric]

What about the fact that the pants are labelled

"#37 - STENGEL - SET 1 - 44-36 - DISPLAY."

Doesn't that also diminish the chance of them being made for wear?

[flaco1801]

i really doubt stengal would have "dressed" for an all star game at that point in his life, he might have come out of the dugout for a wave or a first pitch.

[Swoboda4]

I was thinking of that-That at that point in his life he wouldn't have got dressed in uniform. But knowing him-he could have been on his death bed, if he made it to the stadium he was getting dressed in uniform(see below). That Yankee away(double knit) uniform wasn't made in 1970 so that year is not possible. But,that uniform STYLE was available for him to wear in 1973,74 and 75. That word,Display,with the set info,is puzzling though.
http://www.ebbets-field.com/SubwaySeries/Stengel.jpgOld timers game,unknown date-problably one those last 3 years were talking about(73,74,75)and more than likely worn more than once.

[suave1477]

Well not that anyone would know this but here is some info. Phil Rizzuto is not doing well he is in poor health and has been for sometime now. His health has been poor before the last old timers game and he did come to wave to the fans and when he came out he was wearing his old timers day jersey.

So with this being said it could have been the same situation for Casey, where he put on the jersey just to wave to the fans.

Also as you know Rizzuto is auctioning off his collection, his health is a big part of the reason. As rumor has it if you can grab an autograph of him now do so, he is not doing that much more signings anymore. Maybe 1 or 2 more and that might be it.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Were double-knits used for old timer's games in Casey Stengel's LIFETIME? Just because MLB switched from knits to flannels, that doesn't mean they used knits for old timers' games.

Anyone have a photo of ANY old timers game with a knit jersey, before Casey's passing?

Why weren't these special "handwritten" tags photographed and properly displayed in the description? It seems these tags are the most important part of this jersey.