MEARS Authentication....

[aeneas01]

given dave grob's recent "open letter" to lou lampson i thought it might be a good time to see how well mears's past work (or, rather, mears's well-advertised approach to authenticating items) held up to lampson's work as far as game-used football helmets (my particular game-used passion!) are concerned. i believe someone mentioned that all of mears's loas are available at the mears website but that this info is reserved for paying members only. given that i am not a paying mears member and don't have access to these loas, i instead resorted to mastro's auction house archives.

anyway, the first four game-used helmets i came across that were authenticated by mears ("dave bushing & troy kinunen / mears") are listed below - unfortunately they appear to be as problematic as some of the game-used helmets i've come across with a lampson loa...


1. tony gonzalez 2000 kansas city chiefs sigend game used helmet - loas from dave bushing & troy kinunen / mears, steve grad psa / dna and james spence authentication.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp01-8.jpg

problems: 1) in 2000 the chiefs wore a derrick thomas memorial decal on their helmets in recognition of his passing, this helmet does not have this decal, 2) the nfl did not sport american flags on their helmets in 2000, 3) missing warning decal, 4) gonzalez's 2000 helmet was not reconditioned (freshly painted) nor was his 2001 helmet as evidenced in the photos below (notice the visible jaw pad rivets) - the helmet appearing in this auction has been freshly painted, 5) gonzalez never wore the type of facemask pictured. note: bottom right hand photo from 2001 season to show unpainted jaw pad rivets, all other photos from 2000 season.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp02-7.jpg



2. 1980s lyle blackwood miami dolphins game used helmet - loa from dave bushing & troy kinunen / mears.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp01-9.jpg


problems: 1) lyle blackwood, like his teammate brother gelnn blackwood, was a "schutt/bike" man not a riddell man - the helmet in the auction is a riddell, 2) the dave overstreet memorial decal would date this helmet to 1984, the only year the dolphins featured overstreet's decal - in 1984 the dolphins also faced the niners in the super bowl, 3) following photos 1) lb's first year with the fins (1981), 2) lb playing in the 1984 super bowl against the niners, 3) the blackwood brothers leaving the field together in 1984, 4) the blackwood brothers in lyle's final season (1986) - blackwood can clearly be seen sporting a schutt/bike in all photos, not a riddell as offered in the auction.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp02-8.jpg



3. 1980s jerry sisemore philadelphia eagles game used helet - loa from dave bushing & troy kinunen / mears.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp01-10.jpg


problems: 1) eagles never wore white facemasks, 2) like many philadelphia eagles of this era, jerry sisemore sported a classic maxpro clearshell during the late 70s, early 80s (1978-1982), not a riddell as pictured in the auction. he wore a riddell from 1973-1977 and, most likely due to maxpro going out of business in the early 80s, his final two seasons (1983-1984), 3) the riddell helmet pictured in the auction is molded of white plastic and painted green which would suggest that it is from the very early 70s, not 80s as stated in the item description, 4) in all of the photos and film clips i have seen of sisemore wearing a riddell helmet, pre and post maxpro, he is wearing an impregnated green shell not a white one painted green, 5) photos below show sisemore sporting his classic maxpro clearshell during 1978-1982 era.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp02-9.jpg




4. 1980s louis wright denver broncos game used helmet - loa from dave bushing & troy kinunen / mears.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp01-11.jpg


problems: 1) like lyle blackwood mentioned above, louis wright was a "bike/schutt" man not a riddell man - the helmet pictured in the auction is a riddell, 2) did wright sport a riddell when he first entered the league as a bronco in 1975, early in his career? hard to say - but from available photos and film frames it's clear that he wore bike/schutt from at least 1978 through 1986 (his final year), the years that the advertised helmet is said to have been used by wright, 3) photos below - wright sporting his schutt/bike during the 80s.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp02-10.jpg





comments:

as i mentioned earlier, given grob's recent open letter to lampson in which he pointed out the benefit of taking one's time during the authentication process versus the pressures of engaging in the rush jobs lampson eluded to during the gavel chat interview, i wanted to see if i could track down some mears loa game-used helmets to see how they stacked up to lampson's work. however, the very first helmets i came across with mears loas, listed above, have serious problems in my opinion.

i contacted mastro by phone and asked them about these lids and the loas - the guy i spoke with, who seemed very well informed, told me that some helmets in the past had incorrectly been described as having mears's loas when in fact that they should have been described as having lampson loas. he went on to say that the item descriptions on these lots had been publicly modified and corrections made. as such, he felt that the helmets i was asking about were indeed authenticated by mears. he also added that i could confirm this information on mears's website for the cost of a membership fee. given that i didn't want to shell out for this info, i called troy kinunen to see if he might confirm the loas over the phone - i got his answering service and didn't leave a message.

needless to say i was more than a little surprised to find that the entire handful helmets i looked at with a mears loa (again, listed above) had serious issues - obviously this was a fluke and had i been able to spend more time looking for additional mears helmets i'm sure i would have come across some winners. also, these lots came from the same auction which makes me wonder if they were all from the same consignor - perhaps mears felt so strongly about the consignor that they didn't feel the need to take a closer look? who knows...

it would be interesting to know if these helmets were incorrectly attributed mears - perhaps a guu forum member with a mears membership account could confirm the loas? i would also be interested to know of any proof that would confirm that these helmets are in fact authentic and as described in the auction item descriptions, info that would confirm that i missed the boat on these lids because, honestly, i would sincerely like to believe that the buyers got what they paid for.


...

[yanks12025]

How did you go back into mastro's auction house archives.

[aeneas01]

troy kinunen of mears emailed me this encouraging note in response to my post. according to kinunen it appears that mastro may have indeed incorrectly attributed mears loas to these helmets despite what i was told by mastro. whatever the case it looks as if mears will try to get to the bottom of this and are prepared to make things right.

as i mentioned to kinunen, the reason for my post on these helmets was not to attack mears but to simply show that there are problems with any authentication process, that undeserving lots do get sold as authentic, game-used despite what appears to be the best intentions and effort.

for the record i really do respect the hard work the guys at mears put into their website and very much appreciate the information they make available to collectors and the highly informative articles they manage to get out with such regularity. i also feel it's unfortunate that their "bulletin board" attracts such little activity - especially given the number of very interesting topics open for discussion. frankly, i believe that this lack of active participation undermines their hard work and reflects poorly on their website - and i can't imagine it's much fun for the mears guys to spend so much time posting interesting topics to the board under these circumstances...


---------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: Troy Kinunen (troy@mearsonline.com)
To: livie@horizoncable.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 08:16
Subject: MEARS/Mastro/Helmets


Dear Robert,

I was prompted to look at your recent post on the Game Used Universe Forum about a number of football helmets from an October 2005 Mastro Auction. I am sorry I missed your call and wished you had left a voice mail. I have checked our data base and do not see these items listed. I spoke with Dave Bushing and neither he or I recall doing evaluations on these helmets. That being said, I will have to admit there is possibility, however remote, that we could have looked at these items. If we did, then there would be a letter out there signed by Dave Bushing and myself.

In our earliest days moving from SCDA to MEARS, not all of the letters were captured for archiving. On very rare occasion, we have found some of the equipment LOO's did not transfer when we switched to MEARS. I have noted your observations and am going to go back to Mastro's and ask that they contact the winners of these lots and direct them to your informative post. If they still have the items and they did come with letters signed by Dave and I (which we would need to see), then we will gladly revaluate them at no cost, and if need be, buy these items back for the full price they paid to include any buyers premium and shipping and handling fees.

This would not be the first time an item or items was attributed to MEARS in an auction description that was not in fact the case. I am not trying to shift blame or responsibility. The simple facts of the matter are we have no record or recollection of evaluating these items, but since our name is associated with them, we feel compelled to help the collectors that bought them sort it out.

Once again, sorry I missed your call and please consider leaving me a voice mail. You can always contact me as well by my e-mail address provided above.

Respectfully Yours,

Troy R. Kinunen
MEARS



....

[mvandor]

They don't get any better than Mears. Very professional response that avoided the typical defensiveness. Interested to hear the end result.

[harpt]

They don't get any better than Mears. Very professional response that avoided the typical defensiveness. Interested to hear the end result.
I couldn't agree more. This response is outstanding.

[metsbats]

I'd like Mears to comment on a Rick Aguilera 1986 NLCS orange ring Rawlings Adirondack bat which they categorized as a 85-86 regular season bat. I recently picked this bat up in the last REA auction along with a 1988 Gary Carter game used NLCS bat. The 1988 NLCS bats are stamped as such on the barrel however the 1986 orange ring NLCS bats were not. The distinguishing marks on the 1986 NLCS bats were the absence of the lot and year (ex 123 6) on the knob which was replaced by the players initials. Also a distingishing trademark of the 1986 NLCS Rawlings adirondack bats are the orange rings which were also used for the 1986 WS and 1988 NLCS issued bats

My Mears Letter of Opinion states the Orange ring Rick Aguilera which is stamped with model number 113B and RA is from the 85-86 regular season and that the Model Number Location appears on the knob with the year Code though this bat clearly has no year code.

Attached are photos of Darrly Strawberry, Mookie Wilson, Gary Carter using orange ring bats during the 86 NLCS and World Series. Also included is a photo of the Rick Aguilera (auto by Gary Carter) bat authenticated by Mears along with another same exact NLCS orange ring Aguilera bat.

Also in the photo are orange ring Dykstra, Strawberry 1986 WS bats, an Ed Hearn 86 NLCS orange bat, and a 1988 Mazilli and Carter NLCS orange ring bats.

Thanks
David Louie
metsbats86@aol.com

[aeneas01]

They don't get any better than Mears. Very professional response that avoided the typical defensiveness. Interested to hear the end result.


I couldn't agree more. This (Kinunen's / MEARS) response is outstanding.


the guu forum is often criticized by many in the industry as a place where malcontents, buyer remorse sufferers and ax grinders gather to complain and take unfair shots at auction houses and authenticators - a place where those with nothing positive to say about the hobby lay in wait, "like spiders", for the next shaky lot to appear at auction in order to pounce on it, anonymously air it out in public, scream foul and embarrass those responsible.

if nothing else this thread proves that the aforementioned notion is patently absurd and that serious game-used sports memorabilia collectors, i.e. guu forum members, want nothing more than a fair shake from auction houses and those that evaluate game-used items - they want those in the industry to be accountable for their work and responsive to their concerns.

after 400+ views not one guu member has posted a negative remark to this thread criticizing mears for missing the boat on these helmets. why? if the authenticator being discussed in this thread was lampson instead of mears, if it were lampson that had missed the boat on these lids instead of mears, i can pretty much guarantee that this thread would have taken an entirely different direction. again, why? pretty simple imo. collectors respond positively to dialog. and they are willing to extend the benefit of the doubt when dialog and accessibility is tabled as demonstrated by the obvious respect collectors at guu have for mears and the forum response to kinunen's email.

a couple of other items....

in response to this post dave grob at mears took the opportunity to write an informative piece on the process of analyzing photos of football helmets with the help of a "helmet template" that he devised. it's a good read and a good start for those interested in football helmets imo. i would only add the following - before wasting time searching for photos i would contact the auction house and ask for the helmet's manufacturing date and any manufacturing codes as this would immediately tell you if the helmet could have possibly belonged to the player in question. if the date and codes match up the next thing i would do before digging through photos is take a long look at the helmet in order to determine the manufacturer and model; if photos of the interior are not pictured in the ad i would contact the seller and ask for them as they will help confirm the helmet model type. only after determining the date, codes, manufacturer and model of the helmet would i begin the process of looking through photos. why? because the above info could immediately rule out a helmet belonging to a given player and save you the time and energy you would have spent rifling through photos.

http://www.mearsonline.com/news/newsDetail.asp?id=474


also...

dave bushing posted his thoughts regarding these helmets at the mears bulletin board. in his post he explains the practice in which an auction house would supply the buyer with an loa that included the names of all of the authenticators the house employed for the auction regardless if the authenticators named had actually looked at the lot. he goes on to say that mears recognized the problem with this practice and corrected it.

the thing is, dave seems to offer this information as an explanation as to why the helmets i posted contained the mears name - which i don't get. other than the first helmet, the gonzalez helmet, every helmet mentions only one authenticator - mears. not a group of authenticators. the gonzalez helmet mentions mears, psa/dna and spence authentication which, given that psa/dna and spence are autograph authenticators, i assume means mears authenticated the equipment/helmet.

in short, mastro included only one equipment authennticator in the item description of each of these helmets and that authenticator was mears. consequently the buyer could not have been under the impression that any other authenticator other than mears was involved in the authenticating process of these helmet at the time of purchase.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/426247/message/1210816905/LOA%27s



...

[cjmedina1]

I'd like Mears to comment on a Rick Aguilera 1986 NLCS orange ring Rawlings Adirondack bat which they categorized as a 85-86 regular season bat. I recently picked this bat up in the last REA auction along with a 1988 Gary Carter game used NLCS bat. The 1988 NLCS bats are stamped as such on the barrel however the 1986 orange ring NLCS bats were not. The distinguishing marks on the 1986 NLCS bats were the absence of the lot and year (ex 123 6) on the knob which was replaced by the players initials. Also a distingishing trademark of the 1986 NLCS Rawlings adirondack bats are the orange rings which were also used for the 1986 WS and 1988 NLCS issued bats

My Mears Letter of Opinion states the Orange ring Rick Aguilera which is stamped with model number 113B and RA is from the 85-86 regular season and that the Model Number Location appears on the knob with the year Code though this bat clearly has no year code.

Attached are photos of Darrly Strawberry, Mookie Wilson, Gary Carter using orange ring bats during the 86 NLCS and World Series. Also included is a photo of the Rick Aguilera (auto by Gary Carter) bat authenticated by Mears along with another same exact NLCS orange ring Aguilera bat.

Also in the photo are orange ring Dykstra, Strawberry 1986 WS bats, an Ed Hearn 86 NLCS orange bat, and a 1988 Mazilli and Carter NLCS orange ring bats.

Thanks
David Louie
metsbats86@aol.com

David

Not sure if know but Mears has responded to your post?

Carlie Medina III
carliemedinaiii@sbcglobal.net

[metsbats]

David

Not sure if know but Mears has responded to your post?

Carlie Medina III
carliemedinaiii@sbcglobal.net


Carlie,

I emailed this thread to them via the MEARS contact feature on their website.

Waiting to hear from them.


David

[David]

One of the common ways to compare two authentication companies is to compare the percentage of mistakes verus the percentage of mistakes (comparing the degree of error is also often used). Say one company has made 1,000 errors and the other 50. If someone in the name of comparing the companies goes into the archives and picks out three errors from the one company and three errors from the other company to compare side by side, they can give the false impression that the two companies are as bad (or as good, depending how you look at it), when this clearly is not the case.

I'm sure both John Nash (famous Princeton applied math professor and Nobel Prize winner) and Zsa Zsa Gabor both made mistakes in high school math class. If I were to dig into the archives and post side by side three Nash high school math mistakes and three Gabor high school math mistakes, that wouldn't show they had equal mathematics aptitude.

I do think examining specific examples is important, but also think pulling out a few examples to prove an overall picture is, at the least, problematic.

My personal belief is that two important ways to examine the quality of an authentication company is the percentage of errors and magnatide of the errors. The later would in particular identify errors so large and basic it cast a shadow upon the authenticator's basic knowledge. If the only error in an LOA is it says 1986 instead of 1987, that would be cataloged as a minor error and might have been a typo. If the 'authenticator' didn't know the Green Bay Packers wear Green and Gold, obviously he shouldn't be authenticating NFL jerseys.

[David]

Relating to the John Nash / Zsa Zsa Gabor intellectual comparison, I had to add the following lines from M*A*S*H*

Hot Lips Houlihan: "Did you know Albert Einstein flunked high school math?"
Frank Burns: "Really? I got a C."

[aeneas01]

One of the common ways to compare two authentication companies is to compare the percentage of mistakes verus the percentage of mistakes (comparing the degree of error is also often used). Say one company has made 1,000 errors and the other 50. If someone in the name of comparing the companies goes into the archives and picks out three errors from the one company and three errors from the other company to compare side by side, they can give the false impression that the two companies are as bad (or as good, depending how you look at it), when this clearly is not the case.

alas, only if auditors could be sold on this approach - unfortunately they're not too interested in what you might have gotten right, they're interested in the samples they pulled...

as far as mears is concerned, here's an udpate:

troy (mears) was true to his word and immediately contacted mastro to ask that mastro try and track down the buyers of the four helmets in order to see if the helmets did in fact come with an loa from mears, to see if a wrong needed to be righted. one of the buyers was reached, the gentleman who purchased the eagles helmet, and confirmed that his helmet arrived from mastro without an loa from mears despite the item description stating that it would. the buyer contacted me to tell me, among other things, that he wants to return the helmet for a full refund - he also shared his mastro emails with me and said that i could post them here....

--------------------------------------

From: "Doug Allen" <dallen@mastronet.com>

You purchased a game used football helmet from our 10/05 auction. Please let me know if you received a MEARS letter for this lot.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,

Doug
Doug Allen
President & COO
Mastro Auctions Inc.
7900 S. Madison Street
Burr Ridge, IL 60527
p: 630-472-1200
m: 630-336-6650

--------------------------------------


From: xxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 1:39 PM
To: Doug Allen
Subject: Re: MEARS letter

No, I don't have one. Was that the Sizemore Eagles helmet?



--------------------------------------

From: "Doug Allen" <dallen@mastronet.com>

Yes it was....we were just following up as the auction lot indicated the helmets came with MEARS letters but apparently they did not.

--------------------------------------


From: xxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 2:15 PM
To: Doug Allen
Subject: RE: MEARS letter


OK, so where does that leave us? Do we need to contact MEARS? Did they break their contract?

--------------------------------------

From: "Doug Allen" <dallen@mastronet.com>

No it was probably an administrative mistake. MEARS asked me to contact various individuals who purchased football helmets to find out if they in fact recieved a letter. I would offer to buy back the helmet if the lack of the MEARS helmet bothers you.

--------------------------------------

the buyer of the helmet recently emailed me to say that he has told doug that he wanted to take him up on his offer to buy the helmet back given no mears loa as promised; however he has not heard back from doug. hopefully doug follows through on his offer and hopefully the other buyers will be contacted by mastro and offered the same deal if their helmets were received without a mears letter. if the buyer of the eagles helmet is any indication, it appears that mears was completely innocent in the matter of these four helmets and that mastro somehow ran auctions with lots said to have been authenticated by mears when this was clearly not the case. i can't help but wonder how many auction winners fail to confirm that their items safely arrive with all of the promised paper work...



...

[otismalibu]

Let me be the first to pledge $20 to the Aeneas01 Kevlar Vest Fund.

:)

[metsbats]

I'd like Mears to comment on a Rick Aguilera 1986 NLCS orange ring Rawlings Adirondack bat which they categorized as a 85-86 regular season bat. I recently picked this bat up in the last REA auction along with a 1988 Gary Carter game used NLCS bat. The 1988 NLCS bats are stamped as such on the barrel however the 1986 orange ring NLCS bats were not. The distinguishing marks on the 1986 NLCS bats were the absence of the lot and year (ex 123 6) on the knob which was replaced by the players initials. Also a distingishing trademark of the 1986 NLCS Rawlings adirondack bats are the orange rings which were also used for the 1986 WS and 1988 NLCS issued bats

My Mears Letter of Opinion states the Orange ring Rick Aguilera which is stamped with model number 113B and RA is from the 85-86 regular season and that the Model Number Location appears on the knob with the year Code though this bat clearly has no year code.

Attached are photos of Darrly Strawberry, Mookie Wilson, Gary Carter using orange ring bats during the 86 NLCS and World Series. Also included is a photo of the Rick Aguilera (auto by Gary Carter) bat authenticated by Mears along with another same exact NLCS orange ring Aguilera bat.

Also in the photo are orange ring Dykstra, Strawberry 1986 WS bats, an Ed Hearn 86 NLCS orange bat, and a 1988 Mazilli and Carter NLCS orange ring bats.

Thanks
David Louie
metsbats86@aol.com



I received an email from Troy today indicating Mears will make the changes to the certificate for my Rick Aguilera orange ring post season 1986 bat to reflect the bat being such.

Thanks in advance to Troy and Andrew at MEARS for resolving this.

-David

[Eric]

anyway, the first four game-used helmets i came across that were authenticated by mears ("dave bushing & troy kinunen / mears") are listed below - unfortunately they appear to be as problematic as some of the game-used helmets i've come across with a lampson loa...

3. 1980s jerry sisemore philadelphia eagles game used helet - loa from dave bushing & troy kinunen / mears.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp01-10.jpg


problems: 1) eagles never wore white facemasks, 2) like many philadelphia eagles of this era, jerry sisemore sported a classic maxpro clearshell during the late 70s, early 80s (1978-1982), not a riddell as pictured in the auction. he wore a riddell from 1973-1977 and, most likely due to maxpro going out of business in the early 80s, his final two seasons (1983-1984), 3) the riddell helmet pictured in the auction is molded of white plastic and painted green which would suggest that it is from the very early 70s, not 80s as stated in the item description, 4) in all of the photos and film clips i have seen of sisemore wearing a riddell helmet, pre and post maxpro, he is wearing an impregnated green shell not a white one painted green, 5) photos below show sisemore sporting his classic maxpro clearshell during 1978-1982 era.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp02-9.jpg




...

Regarding the Jerry Sisemore helmet in this thread? The moderators got an email from Mr. Sisemore who came across this posting and here's what he had to say...

"Bad News - I have my helmet right here. The one you advertise is NOT mine. It
is tradition that when you leave the lockerroom for the last time, you are
honored with your helmet.

Blessings.....
Jerry Sisemore"

[princip]

Awesome! Thanks for the follow up Eric.

[princip]

Just to add, does this confirm that an LOA from Dave Bushing and Troy Kinunen, of MEARS, isn't worth jack squat?

[suicide_squeeze]

the guu forum is often criticized by many in the industry as a place where malcontents, buyer remorse sufferers and ax grinders gather to complain and take unfair shots at auction houses and authenticators - a place where those with nothing positive to say about the hobby lay in wait, "like spiders", for the next shaky lot to appear at auction in order to pounce on it, anonymously air it out in public, scream foul and embarrass those responsible.

if nothing else this thread proves that the aforementioned notion is patently absurd and that serious game-used sports memorabilia collectors, i.e. guu forum members, want nothing more than a fair shake from auction houses and those that evaluate game-used items - they want those in the industry to be accountable for their work and responsive to their concerns.

after 400+ views not one guu member has posted a negative remark to this thread criticizing mears for missing the boat on these helmets. why? if the authenticator being discussed in this thread was lampson instead of mears, if it were lampson that had missed the boat on these lids instead of mears, i can pretty much guarantee that this thread would have taken an entirely different direction. again, why? pretty simple imo. collectors respond positively to dialog. and they are willing to extend the benefit of the doubt when dialog and accessibility is tabled as demonstrated by the obvious respect collectors at guu have for mears and the forum response to kinunen's email.


Well stated Robert.

I feel it's important to emphasize the fact that over the years in the conversations I have had with Dave Bushing, and more recently with Troy.....they have shown me nothing but the highest integrity and class-act professionalism anyone could ever hope to find in our hobby.

Great post, and an unbelievable pat-on-the-back to MEARS for Troy's response. It speaks volumes about their organization. My GOD......what a breath of fresh air!!! Someone actually taking RESPONSIBILITY for something in this world?? Cudo's to MEARS.

Regards,

Steve Mears (no relation to the company......unfortunately)

[nickacs]

Hi everyone,
Sorry to bump a little old thread, but quick question about the MEARS grading/"expectations". Would you say that getting a jersey with a grade of A10 is one of the "best" in the biz?
I'm mainly an NBA game worn jersey collector and notice a couple nice looking jerseys coming up for auction and both jersey's I'm interested in have A10 gradings by MEARS. I know with Chicago Bulls jerseys, having a CharitaBulls letter is about the best you can get with those jerseys. And then team LOA's, etc would maybe be your "2nd tier".

The jerseys are a lot of money and don't want to blow the wad on crap that A10's don't really mean jack.

Thanks!
Nick

[suicide_squeeze]

Hi everyone,
Sorry to bump a little old thread, but quick question about the MEARS grading/"expectations". Would you say that getting a jersey with a grade of A10 is one of the "best" in the biz?
I'm mainly an NBA game worn jersey collector and notice a couple nice looking jerseys coming up for auction and both jersey's I'm interested in have A10 gradings by MEARS. I know with Chicago Bulls jerseys, having a CharitaBulls letter is about the best you can get with those jerseys. And then team LOA's, etc would maybe be your "2nd tier".

The jerseys are a lot of money and don't want to blow the wad on crap that A10's don't really mean jack.

Thanks!
Nick


Let me just sum it up this way....

A10 is the highest possible rating.

It usually means there is direct positive identification of use by the player, sometimed from the player himself, and all of the "characteristics" are a perfect match. I don't think I've ever seen an A10 questioned and proven as a bad item......I'm sure someone will jump in if they know of one.

But you're about as safe as possible with an A10 rating.

[nickacs]

Thanks Suicide...
Yea, I've noticed that A10's from MEARS tend to be that the consignor/jersey has some great provenance that ties it to the player, friend, coach, etc etc.
The two jerseys I'm looking at, a Jordan and Magic, has the Jordan coming from the Bulls official scorer and team statistition since '66. The Magic one doesn't say who the provenance is from to make it an A10, so I emailed MEARS to ask. I'm sure there aren't a lot of A10 Magic's they've graded through the years.

Thanks again! I'll see if I should bid or not :)

[lund6771]

Thanks Suicide...
Yea, I've noticed that A10's from MEARS tend to be that the consignor/jersey has some great provenance that ties it to the player, friend, coach, etc etc.
The two jerseys I'm looking at, a Jordan and Magic, has the Jordan coming from the Bulls official scorer and team statistition since '66. The Magic one doesn't say who the provenance is from to make it an A10, so I emailed MEARS to ask. I'm sure there aren't a lot of A10 Magic's they've graded through the years.

Thanks again! I'll see if I should bid or not :)

Which auction will both of these be coming up in?

[yanks12025]

Lund,
I think he's talking about the ones in SCP.

[nickacs]

Yup, the July SCP Auction. Both are very nice pieces and I don't have an older Magic jersey and a Jordan from that year, but I'm soooo cautious these days on auction jerseys, esp these guys and Bird!

[lund6771]

Yup, the July SCP Auction. Both are very nice pieces and I don't have an older Magic jersey and a Jordan from that year, but I'm soooo cautious these days on auction jerseys, esp these guys and Bird!


The tags on the Jordan look pretty crisp, but sure could have been worn for a few games

I would be soooooo cautious of the Magic

[nickacs]

The tags on the Jordan look pretty crisp, but sure could have been worn for a few games

I would be soooooo cautious of the Magic

Thanks.. About the Magic, even with a MEARS A10? I know that there's always a chance the auth places miss something (as we all well know), but that's why I posted in this thread to see if a MEARS A10 is a "definite"/no question asked game worn jersey LOA.

[lund6771]

Thanks.. About the Magic, even with a MEARS A10? I know that there's always a chance the auth places miss something (as we all well know), but that's why I posted in this thread to see if a MEARS A10 is a "definite"/no question asked game worn jersey LOA.


Nickacs....To me, nothing is a "definite" unless it's conclusively photo matched

If it's not photo matched, then comes the "leap"....basically who can you trust without the photo match...(also experience in authentication of a particular sport is huge in my book)....i don't believe that any authenticator out there is an expert in all sports..that's pretty tough

niche experts are the ones that I would trust, and you won't find more niche experts than here

this is my opinion of the Magic...there are a TON of Magic Tiernan jerseys out there....(along with Kareems)...WAY more that could have ever been worn during this time frame...the first key thing to look for to try and distinguish a good vs bad jersey is the eveness of wear....most of the Tiernan Lakers jerseys out there have uneven wear...on most of them the Tiernan label is beat to shit, but everything else that is sewn on is pretty crisp....when looking at the SCP jersey, it follows this pattern and most astute Lakers collectors know this

On the other hand, here is what a jersey with consistant wear should look like, and the final hammer price reflected that

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=12864

Here is another example of what a jersey should like with that much wear on tag

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/53032780.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939847EC77F5F8D1CEA9936CF7EF03650E 4E9C89C783688B46

[nickacs]

Lund-
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but your last post was right on with what I'm currently looking at. SCP Auctions just had a Magic Tiernan jersey that looks like it has already sold off their "buy now" webpage. Darn! The tag was definitely beat up and looked really good.

There's another in the current Heritage Auction and wanted to know your thought (or anyone's) regarding the Magic jersey. The Tiernan tag looks pretty pristine and clean, but I don't know what else to look at/verify the early Laker Tiernan jerseys since there are no size/length/nba logo identifiers to compare with?

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks...

[lund6771]

Niockas...

what's your e-mail?

[nickacs]

Niockas...

what's your e-mail?

Thanks for seeeing this Lund! :) My email is: nick.twc@gmail.com