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helmets
05-05-2008, 09:28 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Game-Worn-1990s-Chicago-Bears-Helmet-Riddell_W0QQitemZ130220191745QQihZ003QQcategoryZ25 192QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is a classic. Wrong color, wrong side decals, wrong decal placement on the rear, wrong jawpads, and finally...look at how the side clips are mounted on the mask.

Shane Matthews? Sure thing.

shoremen44
05-05-2008, 10:10 AM
I'm not a Bears fan... but when did they switch colors to a bright royal blue???

Nice helmet... wonder which one of his kids wore it for peewee football

34swtns
05-05-2008, 11:43 AM
And I'd like to thank you for adhering to the rules and contacting me and waiting for my reply before you posted your issues on the forum, (you didn't). Nice going. Thanks buddy. The helmet has only been posted for about 12 hours and I just saw your ebay message come through so you didn't bother to wait for my reply before you jumped at the opportunity to show everyone what a crook I am and how incredibly intelligent you are. Not cool.

As I said in my reply to your ebay message that I received at about the same time I saw this posting, I'm a veteran Bears jersey collector. Helmets are not my thing.....at all. The helmet was purchased a couple of years ago from another long-time Bears collector who I had no reason to believe would steer me wrong as I had bought several game used items from him previously. I still don't believe he purposefully mislead me......helmets aren't his thing, either, but I will certainly make him aware of the possibility that we both may have been duped.

That being said, I'm going to ask you to point out the discrepencies in the helmet, (just like I asked for in my reply to your ebay message). Just point 'em out and I'll gladly amend the description, (as I also stated in my reply to you).

Like I said before, you should've waited for my reply before you jumped on the opportunity to bust somebody's balls. Again.....not cool.

34swtns
05-05-2008, 11:46 AM
By the way, the color difference you mentioned is most likely caused by my use of a very bright, very close flash. The helmet is actually quite a bit darker than it appears in the photos.

34swtns
05-05-2008, 02:50 PM
Never mind getting back to me.
I went to the top of the mountain to speak with the wise one.....our good friend, Robert. He's got the right combination of wisdom and class. I should've spoken to him in the first place before I even posted the helmet for sale but as I said before, I had no reason to doubt it.
You can bet it won't happen again.

helmets
05-05-2008, 05:01 PM
I sent an email through ebay, just as the forum rules state. I am not busting your balls, just pointing out that the helmet is inconsistant in every way from a game used helmet. As I have been on a plane for the last three hours, I did not get a chance to reply until now.

The Bears until recently have used a molded plastic or as many call it, impregnated navy blue. You state that the helmet is from the 90's, yet it is a white or gray helmet painted. The color is wrong. The color should be a dark navy blue. The rear bumper is from a recent VSR4 helmet, not one from the mid 90's. In addition, Riddell stopped putting the acoustic foam in the VSR4 helmets within the last 3 years, due to its ability to retain heat. That and the fact that it did not do anything acoustically for the person wearing it.

The Bears side decals do not have a clear boarder. The decals on this helmet are offered by an Illinois decal company. They are sold to people for the hard-hats that you see sold at construction tools dealers. Many collectors/dealers use these decals on football helmets that are made up, and are incorrect. The decals are too small and too round.

The decal placement on the rear is incorrect for the Bears. The side clips are not installed correctly. The NFL does not allow black jawpads any longer per their uniform guidelines, however, they may be ok if the helmet was from the mid 90's, but it is not.

Yes, shift the blame on someone that calls out the helmet, rather than verify that it is indeed a game used NFL helmet. Being a member of GUU, I would think that you would know better, and would verify before attempting to sell the helmet on ebay.

34swtns
05-05-2008, 06:51 PM
I sent an email through ebay, just as the forum rules state.

You're missing the point, genius.
You WAIT for my reply, give me the chance to correct any mistakes in the listing, and THEN bust balls if I don't reply or simply refute your points. That's how it works.

Take another look at Chris Cavalier's thread at the beginning of this forum.

ironmanfan
05-05-2008, 09:43 PM
IMHO, I tend to think that if the seller is self admittedly "not a helmet guy" and the guy he bought it from is "not a helmet guy" either, being a regular member of this forum and with all the FREE/EXPERT advice available on this forum (the information provided on this site from Aneas, etc. within the past month or so is NOTHING short of unbelievable) at anyones fingertips beforehand, that one would have sought it prior to listing a football helmet as "Game Used" on eBay.

beavisrules
05-05-2008, 10:48 PM
Since you all are being pretty hard on 34swtns, I would like to note the following:
1. he had the backbone to openly respond to and address his mistake
2. he amended his ebay auction accordingly, unlike 98% of the rest of ebay who would have just proceeded to sell the item as game used regardless of information gained

So give him some credit - honestly, what purpose does continuing to give him a hard time accomplish?


helmets, your second post about the specifics of Bears helmets was very interesting and informative - that's the type of stuff worth reading and was much appreciated

34swtns
05-06-2008, 06:15 AM
Thanks for the comments, beavis.
From the original auction description:

Certainly, there are many of you more qualified to determine the origin of the helmet than I am and I welcome your comments and suggestions regarding it.

Not once in that statement did I make a suggestion like,

"If you think this would be a great opportunity to make yourself look like a really smart fellow to others, rather than communicate directly with me about any concerns first, please feel free to blast me in the very forum of which I am a long-time member. That's right, go ahead and promote yourself at my expense. 'Cause that would be so classy."

"No class-y" is the better adjective.
Quite simply, "helmets" could've taken the high road. He chose not to.

helmets
05-06-2008, 06:48 AM
IMO I don't think I was "hard" on him until after his comments and shifting of the blame or spotlight.

If you read the majority of all questionable "game used" helmet descriptions, that dealers create using an old high school helmet; the majority of them state that they are selling it for someone else, they obtained it from an NFL source or another collector of game used helmets, they "don't know the history", etc. When I read 34swtns describtion, it seemed like the old classic, "...I'm trying to sell this as game used, but if I am called on it, then I have something to fall back on." The description was similar to how our friend "lambeauleeper" has sold every helmet that he has created as "Dan Marino Team Issued" or "Brett Favre Rookie Team Issued Helmet." If you have read any of his descriptions, he states he does not know the history, and puts some clauses in the description as an out in case the buyer finds out differently and wants a refund. This entire listing read very similar.

Again, I did contact you through ebay. If you are such a Bear expert, helmet or not, you should see it immediately. One does not need to be a "helmet expert" to see that this helmet "is a classic." I don't know jerseys, and I am a Packers fan. I know what the Packers wear for jerseys and can spot a fake pretty quickly, just by being a fan of the team and watching the games, and knowing details of game used items. If you are that big of a Bears fan, I would think from watching all of the games, that you would at least have a clue about their helmets. If not, I would think that you could of gone on the internet and searched photos of their helmets and tried to at least match it up.

I do give you credit for changing the description, and if you did indeed believe that the helmet was game worn by Shane Matthews when you "bought it" it and tried to resell it, then I apologize.

mvandor
05-06-2008, 09:56 AM
I think this comes down to the fact that we expect more of each other here amongst ourselves. Both in our dealings with sellers and and in the way we sell our items.

34swtns
05-06-2008, 12:05 PM
Well said, mvandor.

As for the degree to which I'm a Bears fan, I can only say that you could buy a modest 2-bedroom home for the same amount of money I've spent on Bears game jerseys and I can spot a fake from a mile away.

Still don't know squat about helmets.

Rest assured that I would never knowingly burn a fellow collector simply because somebody put one over on me, hence the solicitation for input in the auction listing.

When I originally purchased the helmet I did do a preliminary search of the internet and found that Matthews, for the most part, wore a 2-bar facemask. However, I easily found a couple of pics from the early 1990's of Shane with a similar 3-bar facemask to the one on my helmet.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i56/34swtns/Matthews10-31-93.jpg

That, coupled with my knowledge of the seller was good enough for me.
Live and learn, right?