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ChrisCavalier
04-23-2008, 09:03 AM
Hello Everyone,

Recently there have been some comments made about the forum that I believe deserve some clarification. I will provide them here as well as some additional thoughts to consider. Please note these points are intended for the sole purpose of clarification and not to as any call to arms, etc. They are intended to be offered in a positive manner and I trust they will be viewed as such. I also hope we can listen to, and learn, from some of the comments made to see how we can continue improve things for the hobby.

1) Editing Posts. The following comment was made by Dave Bushing about posts being edited on this forum “I have read positive posts about our company on GUF only to have them no longer listed a few hours later. This begs the question as to what positive posts have been removed by the forum moderators…”

This comment undoubtedly refers to a portion of a post made recently by Joel Alpert that was intended as an advertisement/promotion of the Mears for Sale section. Quite simply, that portion of post was deleted as it violated the forum rule in this regard. We do have, and have had, paid advertisers on this site and the rule is there to protect those who pay for that privilege. If anyone believes it is to their advantage to advertise on this site they can contact us about doing so. In fact, we removed a similar post about another site the day before Joel’s and, when we emailed the poster, he apologized for violating the rules. That same scenario had also happened a number of times previously with an apology from the poster each time.

The comment also asks the question what other “positive” posts have been removed by forum moderators. I’m not trying to be funny here but I asked someone with pretty good analytical skills if it were possible for us to be deleting posts on a public forum without justification and without anyone knowing. Here was his reply which I think shows what it would take:

“It's technically possible (via 24/7 moderation that deletes all subsequent complaints) but not very likely. Without minute-by-minute moderation (which would be a feat in itself - you'd need to recruit some internet addicts as moderators), then anti-GUU posts would slip through and stay up for long enough for large numbers of folks to notice them and/or their absence. In Dave's scenario, you'd need to have 24/7 moderation and then likely ban the offending poster's IP to help ensure they didn't make any subsequent complaints. Banning the IP would prevent them from creating multiple login IDs. Unless they simply got another IP, which isn't that hard. I'm going off tangent here though. Long story short, in this case, possible but very unlikely.”

Well, I can tell you that we are not moderating the forums 24/7/365, hiring internet addicts, deleting posts immediately, banning IP addresses, etc. in some attempt to delete positive posts about others. In fact, I have personally made positive posts about other industry entities and I can also think of numerous posts on the forum that have spoken positively about Mears. Here is one made just yesterday (there are plenty of others for those who care to look):

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com:80/vb_forum/showpost.php?p=81291&postcount=89 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showpost.php?p=81291&postcount=89)

The short answer is, posts are not being deleted if they are not in violation of forum rules.

2) Anonymity: Again, a comment was made that we allow “a smoke screen of anonymous members…” We have explained this numerous times and I’m not sure how else to say this. All posters are required to register with a full name and email address and their names can be found publicly in the user directory on this site. As per the “Disclaimer and Responsibilities” section of our site, it has been made clear to posters that:

The views and opinions stated in the postings do not necessarily represent those of Game Used Universe, Inc. and GameUsedForum.com, Inc.

The views and opinions expressed in postings are the responsibility of the posters and not of Game Used Universe, Inc. and GameUsedForum.com, Inc.

Notably, there are times when we will email posters when their posts seem to be incongruent with the objectives of helping the hobby. The people posting on the site are legally responsible for their posts and can be traced to their IP addresses. Again, I hope that is clear to everyone.

3) Sticky Threads: I had a rather lengthy call with Chris Nerat yesterday where he asked for a response to a quote made by Bushing (about this forum) that is intended to run in an upcoming article in SCD. Apart from the quote, some of the points of which are being addressed here, we talked about some of Chris’ views of the forum. One of the topics was “sticky” threads and specifically the ones we had up recently regarding the Namath helmet. We actually made the threads sticky for their educational value regarding evaluations, etc. However, Chris reiterated Mr. Bushing’s comments from the article that they could be perceived as an attempt to discredit competition.

Let me say that I didn’t personally see the thread that way. I think the poster of the thread regarding the Namath helmet went out of his way to commend Heritage for doing the right thing when the issues were brought up. I can name quite a few people who I have personally told that I think Heritage runs a very professional operation and I thought the thread showed that they do. However, given the thread’s inactivity, Chris pointed out that leaving it up there could be perceived as trying to focus on a mistake. Though I didn’t see it that way, I understood the point and agreed that the thread should be “un-stuck”. I unstuck it while on the phone with Chris. I also think that is learning for us at GUU as to how important “sticky” threads on this site have become to the hobby. I honestly didn’t know so many in the hobby were evaluating that level of granularity on the GUU forum and we will be more sensitive to these things in the future. I will discuss this with the other moderators and I will take personal responsibility for the Namath thread remaining “sticky” for as long as it did. If anyone would like to discuss this further please let me know.

4) Conflict of Interest. Mr. Bushing stated that having an auction site on GUU is a “Conflict of Interest”. I will say that I couldn’t disagree more. The fact of the matter is Game Used Universe as a company holds itself to the same accountability that collectors on our site are now asking of other entities. In fact, it can be easily argued that we hold ourselves to an even higher level of accountability because we encourage it. For example, we have built custom software for our auctions where questions can publicly be asked about any item we have for sale and those questions, and responses, can be viewed by everyone so they can make informed decisions about what they are buying. Up until now, I don’t think either sellers or authenticators have had to provide such transparency nor were their opinions publicly questioned.

Consistent with making the industry more accountable, Game Used Universe’s auctions provide an unprecedented ability for collectors to ask questions and get information prior to making a purchase decision. We have had people ask us tough questions, including questions about items in our auction, and we answer them. We have pulled items from our auctions when collectors have helped us determine the item may not have been correctly assessed. We welcome their feedback and are willing to admit our mistakes because we want to create a marketplace that collectors can trust in terms of finding legitimate merchandise. We believe that type of accountability is good for collectors and will make the hobby better.

It is certainly not a conflict of interest to create a more accountable auction model where there is less reliance of individual opinions and more reliance on the collective opinions to make sure potential buyers better understand what they are buying. I know there are some in the hobby that won’t like this move toward more transparency and accountability but we are convinced beyond doubt that this is better for the hobby and better for the collector.

5) Learnings. There are some learnings I think we can also take away from some of these comments. They include:

- I think those wishing to sign their full name to each post are encouraged to do so. For reasons alluded to by others on the site, we will not make it a requirement. However, it certainly won’t hurt in terms of credibility if you feel inclined to do so.

- Regarding “sticky” threads, as mentioned above, we now realize the hobby may be placing more importance on this mechanism than we realized. As such, we will try to be more aware of potentially sensitive issues and the fact that people may subjectively view those threads differently. If anyone has any concerns about a “sticky” thread please let us know.

- Regarding the tone of posts, I would encourage everyone to think about the tone they use when making posts. While we know we can’t dictate how you write, I personally think a less negative tone is better received by readers. I also think us moderators will need to be more aware of posts that may be perceived as personal attacks. While we really hope we don’t need to start editing posts more regularly, I think Mr. Bushings comments should tell us that the tone of posts on this site have the potential to affect people’s feelings in a very real way. We have asked in our rules that all posts be made in a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby. Again, while we are not trying to dictate the writing style of people on a public forum, I will say posts with negative tones have less of a chance of attracting listeners and moving the hobby in a positive direction.

Once again, this post is intended to clarify some points as well as communicate some learning I think can come out of Mr. Bushing’s comments. I hope and trust they will be viewed as such.

cohibasmoker
04-23-2008, 09:10 AM
Chris,

Nice thread. Keep up the good work.

Jim

CollectGU
04-23-2008, 09:26 AM
4) Conflict of Interest. Mr. Bushing stated that having an auction site on GUU is a “Conflict of Interest”. I will say that I couldn’t disagree more. The fact of the matter is Game Used Universe as a company holds itself to the same accountability that collectors on our site are now asking of other entities. I know there are some in the hobby that won’t like this move toward more transparency and accountability but we are convinced beyond doubt that this is better for the hobby and better for the collector.




Chris,

Eric has recently writen about authenticators/owners of auction houses submitting their own items into auction without disclosure and the conflict of interest he belives is inherent in that. When I asked the same question to GUU auction, we uncover that there are items that have been consigned by both authenticators and the owner. Disclosure of ownership was only done after I made the inquiry making it a "reactive" as opposed to to a "proactive" disclosure. If I hadn't asked it wouldn't have been disclosed.....You can say "Oh, I was going to get to that next" but that doesn't hold water in my opinion. I don't think the value of the items has anything to to do with whether it should be disclosed as you had insinuated in an earlier post if you truly believe in the transparency you preach...

Regards,
Dave

ChrisCavalier
04-23-2008, 10:09 AM
When I asked the same question to GUU auction, we uncover that there are items that have been consigned by both authenticators and the owner. Disclosure of ownership was only done after I made the inquiry making it a "reactive" as opposed to to a "proactive" disclosure. If I hadn't asked it wouldn't have been disclosed
Hello Dave,

We absolutely disagree on this point but what you are stating is an opinion to which you are entitled and I have no interest in engaging to try to refute your opinion.

However, if we remove opinions from the equation, the fact that we made the disclosures about our items is proof that we are creating a system of unprecedented accountability and transparency. Empirically speaking, I think we can both agree that the goal of wanting to have ownership disclosed has been achieved. It is absolute proof that our system is working.

And, just think, when you go to the other auction houses you work with and request the same disclosure, you will have a perfect example to show them should they resist.

I'm getting ready to head to the airport but will be happy to answer any other questions you have when I return from my trip.

Vintagedeputy
04-23-2008, 11:46 AM
Man, there's some whiny little people in the world who sure have nothing better to do than pick on GUU and a bunch of guys sitting in dark rooms surrounded by old baseball bats (myself included). Hey folks, hear the doorbell ringing? Its a clue, ya better get it....

I feel better now.

Signed, with my real name.

Jim Reynolds
deputy7621atAOLdotCOM

whatupyos
04-23-2008, 12:14 PM
Jim,

I love your posts! There are a bunch of whiny people around. Its too bad they find their way to this site, but I guess there is no way to stop that. We're all lucky to have a site such as this. If I was computer savvy I'd have a NO WHINING icon!! Chesse with your wine anyone???

Aaron

Vintagedeputy
04-23-2008, 12:44 PM
Jim,

I love your posts! There are a bunch of whiny people around. Its too bad they find their way to this site, but I guess there is no way to stop that. We're all lucky to have a site such as this. If I was computer savvy I'd have a NO WHINING icon!! Chesse with your wine anyone???

Aaron


Thanks Aaron. After 12 years of wearing a uniform and keeping my thoughts and opinions to myself, I now tend to go overboard and go out of my way to say what's on my mind. I call it like I see it, because I really dont give a crap anymore nor do I feel the need to be politically correct. And yes, it does make me feel soooooooo much better. Its quite refreshing.

CollectGU
04-23-2008, 01:24 PM
Hello Dave,

However, if we remove opinions from the equation, the fact that we made the disclosures about our items is proof that we are creating a system of unprecedented accountability and transparency.

Not really...Basically if i hadn't asked you wouldn't have disclosed ownership on any of those pieces...No need to respond as I can see we will just be going round and round...

Thanks,
Dave

whatupyos
04-23-2008, 01:36 PM
Jim,

I'm the same exact way. Being PC is going to be the destruction of our society and life as we know it. Everyone needs to have a thicker skin in life. Too many pansies out there. So its refreshing to hear someone speak their mind, as I do the same. Although I'm a litle affraid to tear into some people on here because of those low lifes who threaten lawsuits since everyone in life these days tends to want something for nothing. Heaven forbid they have someone make fun of them on here that their fragile little egos get hurt. I have thought about a career in law enforcement myself. Still might do that, as I am sick of criminals.

Wow, that does feel refreshing, always good to vent! Good day to you Jim and keep fighting the good fight!!

Aaron

aeneas01
04-30-2008, 06:47 AM
Chris,

Eric has recently writen about authenticators/owners of auction houses submitting their own items into auction without disclosure and the conflict of interest he belives is inherent in that. When I asked the same question to GUU auction, we uncover that there are items that have been consigned by both authenticators and the owner. Disclosure of ownership was only done after I made the inquiry making it a "reactive" as opposed to to a "proactive" disclosure. If I hadn't asked it wouldn't have been disclosed.....You can say "Oh, I was going to get to that next" but that doesn't hold water in my opinion. I don't think the value of the items has anything to to do with whether it should be disclosed as you had insinuated in an earlier post if you truly believe in the transparency you preach...

Regards,
Dave

it's my understanding that guu disclosed this information in their first auction but were a little late getting to it this time around - don't see a problem. as far as a conflict of interest is concerned, i personally don't have any problem with an authenticator or dealer listing their own item(s) - whether it's at guu or any other auction house. nor would i have a problem if i later discovered this had not been disclosed. what i do have a problem with is a professional authenticator/dealer grading their own item, issuing their own coa based on that grade and then listing the item regardless if they disclose this infromation.

chris, as usual, a very nice and important post. i believe that the concerns others outside of guu have regarding stickies are understandable and legitimate, especially when it comes to the appearance of discrediting competition. yet having said that, i also think it's important that guu not be easily swayed by others in the business, others that feel they are being treated poorly or portrayed in a bad light because, ultimately, i believe that these stickies contain very valuable information for the collector.

anonymity - why do so many outside of guu continue to claim that guu posters are protected by anonymity and therefore not accountable for their posts? this notion of guu anonymity has been clearly debunked again and again yet many continue to persist. why is it that dave grob of mears easily grasps it yet many others at mears don't?

"In a recent and typically cordial e-mail exchange with Eric, the moderator of the Game Used Forum, Eric pointed out to me that while posters on his site do not have to list their first and last names with their posts, they are required to register before posting with a first and last name and provide an e-mail address. Eric pointed out to me, that with this in place, there is no real anonymity since all a person has to do is register on the site and type in the screen name in the search function of the Hobby Network Section.

With this in mind, I felt it only right to publicly provide this point of clarification. This does not mean we will change our policy on our Board as I am very happy with the way it is working and the purpose it serves for us.

Dave Grob"

tone of posts - i agree with your comments regarding this topic but, at the same time, i also believe that tone is most often the byproduct of frustration. collectors are obviously not born with negative dispositions - it's something they develop after being exposed to the ugly side of this hobby. after being exposed to bogus coas, suspect grading, sloppy authentication work, fraud, shill bidding, dismissive and arrogant responses to questions and comments, etc., etc., etc.

frankly chris, i believe that much of the negative tone displayed by myself and others can be directly attributed to businesses, paid professionals, not taking the high road when their authentication work is called into question. instead of hearing "thank you for your input as it will allow us to do a better job" or "your comments and observations are very much appreciated and we will do everything in our power to gain your confidence and trust" we hear "if you don't like, don't bid on it" or "i'm sick and tired of being attacked so i quit" or "we've nailed 4,000 but all you can do is focus on the 6 we missed". i mean what kind of company conducts business in such a manner? what kind of company speaks to potential customers in such a manner?

in a trade publication dave bushing was recently quoted as saying "They don’t give us any credit for all the good we do. They sit there like spiders. The day an auction comes online, they aren’t there saying, ‘Look at that great Gehrig.’ They’re there to point out the negative and that’s it.”

again, what sort of company conducts business in such a manner? how is it possible that it would even occur to someone representing a business such as mears to say such things to a trade magazine? "sit there like spiders..."? honestly. wouldn't one expect a quote more along these lines... "because of the internet collectors have become very educated about the hobby and now have vast amounts of resources from which to draw when it comes to researching an item they may wish to bid on. this presents unique challenges for authentication services in that, more than ever, we must strive even more to get things right. but it's a challenge we're eager to face and, at the end of the day, game used sports memorabilia collecting will be safer and more enjoyable."

or as dave grob professionally put it...

"The individual or organization who is paying for our service does not want to hear about how many times we have been correct. I will be the first to admit that anyone working in this field is likely to miss something. The issue is when these errors are avoidable by taking the requisite amount of time that they require..."