Moustache Gang
04-19-2008, 04:47 PM
GUF Readers,
I have been asked to post what I know about the Krausse A's Flanne Jersey in the current Robert Edwards Auction and my experience in dealing with MEARS on this jersey which scored a perfect A10 on the MEARS scoring system.
Let me first discuss my relationship with MEARS... Over the last couple of years I have contacted Troy at MEARS to discuss their grading of Oakland A’s game used jerseys. It was first brought to my attention that Dave Mediema was working for MEARS and I questioned Troy on the credibility of Mediema as I currently owned a white Reggie Jackson jersey that was totally doctored and was given a pristine LOA from Dave Mediema. The jersey was originally purchased by a physician in Texas from a west coast dealer for $3,000.00. I sent the jersey to Troy who agreed with me that the jersey was a total fake and he advised me that Mediema was not working as an authenticator at MEARS, but was working as a historian and would contribute by writing columns for their website. Troy made it very clear to me that Mediema wrote the LOA before he was employed at MEARS and that he would not be working for MEARS at an authenticator in any capacity. I accepted Troy’s professional response and my only thoughts were on the physician who spent $3K on the jersey and he bought it based on Mediema’s LOA.
Over the next 18 months to two years, Oakland A’s jerseys from 1968 to 1980 (the years I collect) would come up for auction in auction houses including Grey Flannel, Mastro, SCP and Heritage. Some of the jerseys included a certification from Mears and many were scored in the A10 and A9 range. I reviewed these jerseys and would notice strong inconsistencies between the jerseys up for auction and the jerseys in my collection. I sent Troy evidence consisting of bullet points and photos of why I believed the jerseys were scored too high. Each time Troy reviewed my assessments and agreed to reduce the number on their scoring system. One jersey was a green Reggie Jackson knit jersey in a Heritage Auction and the other was a white Reggie knit jersey in at Mastro Auction. Both jerseys were reduced by a -2.
I also was the winning bidder on a 1973 gold Rollie Fingers jerseys from a Heritage Auction. When the jersey arrived I put it in my collection without really looking at it. Months later I pulled the gold Fingers jersey out of the closet and noticed many inconsistencies on the jersey including the size of the A’s on front, the size of the #s on back and the font was not from the ’72 – ’76 era, but from the ’70 and ’71 era. The jersey was given MEARS score of A6. They subtracted -4 for a stain on the shoulder and some very, very small stains on the front of the shirt. The jersey should have been scored “unable to authenticate” as it was not a Rollie Fingers game used jersey. I paid close to $3,700.00 for the jersey and Troy agreed to pay almost $2,000.00 back. I thought this was a lot to pay for a non-Fingers knit, but I agreed and I was pleased with the outcome.
During this time a green ’74 Reggie Jackson knit appeared in an SCP auction. The auction catalog stated it came with a MEARS certification and I could observe that the jersey was doctored in some fashion. I called SCP and MEARS and discussed by findings. The SCP executive director advised it did come with a MEARS LOA and MEARS stated they never even looked at the jersey. I had a second conversation with SCP to discuss my findings and they immediately pulled the jersey from the auction. I give SCP a lot of credit for pulling the jersey.
I then contacted Troy again and I advised him that MEARS has a strong propensity to miss-assess Oakland A’s McAuliffe jerseys and I offered to assess A’s jerseys for them in the future at no cost. I also sent them a CD-ROM that included photos over 80 A’s flannels and knits from 1968 to 1980 (McAuliffe years) to assist them assessing A’s jerseys. Troy asked me if he could put my entire A’s collection up on their website next to the “Duke Hott Collection”. I thought it was a great idea, but I have not taken Troy up on the offer.
In April of 2006, I was the winning bidder on a ’74 green Rollie Fingers game used knit from the Robert Edward Auction. I paid for the jersey and it was sent to my home. When I opened the box I looked at the jersey and the MEARS certification. It was graded an A8 as the assessor subtracted -2 for light wear, although it stated in other areas that the jersey was, “consistent with player and position”. This is very confusing and I did not agree with it. At that time I did not contact MEARS. I put the jersey up on the wall next to a green ’74 Joe Rudi.
Skipping up now two years later…REA has their yearly auction and I noticed a 1968 gold A’s flannel worn by Krausse. The jersey is certified by MEARS as an A10. I remembered that it was previously on the MEARS website under Bushing and Kinunen Sales section. At that time they had an asking price of $2,000.00 which I thought was astronomically high as this jersey had recently been up for auction two previous times and the winning bid was less than $500.00. I sent Troy and email and stated if he can get $2K for an A’s common flannel, I have dozen for sale if he wants them. I never heard back from Troy. I did though pay close attention to the MEARS certification on the Krausse jersey and I wondered how this jersey could command a score of a MEARS A10, their highest score, when it has a clear stain right in the middle of the jersey near the waist line. I thought how can my ’74 green Fingers receive a A8 when it has no stains, great wear or what MEARS states, “wear is consistent with player and position” and the Krausse jerseys scores and immaculate, impeccable, no flaw score of a MEARS A10 when it has a stain right in the middle of the jersey!!!. What followed next was an email conversation with Troy discussing the difference between the ’74 Fingers and the ’68 Krausse. Those emails are listed below.
I am a believer in MEARS, but their grading system is flawed. The point reduction system is so subjective that it really applies a “dart board” theory for reductions. Nowhere on their score sheet does it state how they deduct points…Do they subtract -1 for one stain and -2 for two stains? Do they subtract -1 for a stain the size of a dime and -2 for the size of a golf ball?? It is clearly up to the assessor to make deductions and as you can see from the MEARS assessments in the past they have completely missed the mark.
As for the Krausse jersey, you would have to be certified blind to not see the stain or discoloration on the front of the jersey. I have a gold ’68 Sal Bando with almost the exact color stain, only a bit smaller and off to the left of the button. I would not consider my Bando an A-10 jersey. It should probably be scored an A-9, but according to MEARS standard it would be a grade A10.
Was this jersey scored an A-10 because Dave Bushing owns or partially owns, or would receive a decent fee because he is selling for someone else?? I do not know, but it is apparent that Mr. Bushing got quite upset that individuals questioned the score on the Krausse jersey. Mr. Bushing had every opportunity to call me or email me to discuss the Krausse jersey. Instead, he refused to answer my questions sent to him and took to posting his comments on the MEARS website.
“We own 93 game used items in Robs current auction. Everyone is free to look up each and every lot and feel free to report the grade survey on this sight as to how many 10's, 9's, etc. Also, even if a mistake or stain was overlooked just like any mistake, if verified BEFORE SOLD, each item is guarenteed that we will buy it back. In addition, every item we own and put in an auction is listed. Does ANY OTHER PERSON WHO ATHENTICATES OR ANY FIRM OR AUCTION HOUSE OR ANY ON LINE AUCTION list potential conflict and offer a money back guarentee? Remember , this is for auction only. If we buy a piece and grade it and then sell it to a person who knows we owned and graded it, ie ( our entire for sale sight), I will NOT make a public announcement as to who the buyer is/was. That is nobody's business but the buyer. If he/she then decide to make it public or re-offer the item, regardless of price, it too is no concern of our BUT AS A PIECE CHANGES HANDS, OUR LOA STILL PROTECTS THE COST OF THE ITEM.”
My response to Dave Bushing’s posting…
It does not matter one bit how many jerseys you have in the REA auction. It does not matter that MEARS offers a money back guarantee. It does not matter that you do not make a public announcement as to who the buyer is. What matters is that you and MEARS accept responsibility for miss-assessing the Krausse jersey and reissue a new certification based on a second comprehensive assessment of the jersey and reduce the # based on MEARS 10-point system and the clear and convincing stain on the jersey.
As to Dave’s other posting…
I am just plain tired of putting out hundreds of evaluations only to be lambasted continuously by people who are more mysterious than Lou Lampson, people who have no real name or face, cynical self appointed so called experts that never comment on anything good anywhere but spend their time hiding from the public behind some handle and critising everybody else.
I am not mysterious at all. MEARS has my email address and phone number. They are the ones who refused to not return my emails and not address what is a clear and convincing mistake on the Krausse and Fingers jersey. I am not an expert in Oakland A’s jerseys, but I have a very good acumen of what they wore from 1968 to 1980. Past history has illustrated I have known more than the MEARS team and they acted like professionals and changed their scoring system on A’s jerseys and/or paid me some money back based on a jersey that was wrongly assessed by their team. I am not out to criticize any one. I am out to get the facts straight and in this case both the Fingers and Krausse jerseys need to be reassessed and issued a new MEARS certification.
Here are the emails between Troy and myself from earlier this week.
Troy,
I hope all is going well with MEARS and let me preface this email by stating there is only one professional jersey authenticators globally and that is MEARS. No other firm or person has the credibility, skill and experience as MEARS.
With that stated, I want to talk to you about two Oakland A's jerseys that were both graded by MEARS and what I strongly believe is an inaccurate grade on one, if not both jerseys. The first jersey is a green, 1974 Rollie Fingers jersey, (MEARS Cert #302227). This jersey was purchased by me in the REA auction of 2006. The final grade is an A-8 reduced from an A-10
because of a -2 on the MEARS worksheet for "Light Use". This jersey based on many factors and comparisons is graded too low and here are my points.
1. I own almost 50 Oakland A's knit jerseys from 1972 - 1976 and the Fingers jersey in question has the same or almost the same wear as all other jerseys. As a matter of fact, it rests right next to a green 1974 Joe Rudi and both exhibit the same wear, both have the same residue or dirt on the white letters and the green jerseys are exactly alike in color…no fading whatsoever.
2. In 1974 Rollie Fingers appeared in 76 games and 119 innings, in comparison Joe Rudi played in 126 games and had 468 at-bats, yet their jerseys are almost identical in condition.
3. As you are aware the A's wore three different jerseys in 1974 (green, gold and white).
McAuliffe sent six jerseys to the A's or two of each color. So it could almost be safe to say that Rollie could have worn this jersey in 25 games if he wore it in about 1/3 of his games. Compare that to Joe Rudi who would have worn his in 42 games and that does not take into consideration that either player wore the second green jersey. Yet again the jerseys exhibit the same wear.
4. The MEARS certification #302227 States under "Wear Characteristics" "Evidence Use": Moderate, "Wear consistent with player and position": Yes!!! If wear is consistence with the player and the position how can anyone subtract -2 for "light wear"?? Fingers was a relief pitcher. He was not sliding into second base or chasing foul balls, he was not even taking swings in the batter box, yet his jersey is scored a A8?!?! Does this mean that Fingers has to have as much wear as Joe Rudi, that Tom Quisenberry's jersey has to have as much wear as George Brett's or Bruce Sutter's jersey has to have as much wear as Ozzie Smith's?? The simple answer is "no". This Fingers jersey has significant wear for a relief pitcher who pitched in 76 games as compared to other A's jerseys from 1974 by players who had 450+ at bats.
5. When MEARS takes in submissions they do not do this via email, or photos, you take the jersey into your possession to make your determination because this is the best way to conduct an assessment of the jersey. The exact same point can be stated for comparisons. Right now MEARS uses in-house photos, magazines, yearbooks, periodicals, prior submissions certified by MEARS and also web-based photo sites like Corbis and Getty Images. All great references, but still not as good as another jersey from the exact same year, in the exact same color, from the exact same manufacturer, sitting right beside the jersey being assessed. I understand no firm has an actual comparable jersey for each team, each year, each sport, but again my point is the best type of comparison is when you have two identical jerseys sitting side by side. This is what I currently have and both the Rudi (468 at-bats) and the Fingers (119 IP) have the same wear.
6. The MEARS certification #30227 has a huge discrepancy on it. On the front is states' " Wear consistent with player and position" Yes, but on the worksheet the assessor marks in red pen,” light wear -2." How does the assessor come up with two different answers? How does the assessor come up with an objective determination to subtract two points from the jersey? "Jersey exhibits very light use." As compared to what?? A Corbis or Getty image?? A photo in the MEARS library? A photo of a prior submission?? The clear fact here is that the -2 grading was made subjectively and it is clearly inaccurate based on A's jerseys from this same year.
I can go on and on about why the Fingers jersey should really be ranked an A-10, but take into account with what I have just stated and compare MEARS certification #302227 Rollie Fingers and the 1968 gold vest worn by Lew Krausse, that was on the MEARS website and is now in the current REA auction. I have seen this exact same jersey in person and it has a clear stain on the front of the jersey, near the waistline and right on top of the button. The stain is approximately 1-1 1/2" in diameter, yet this jersey commands a grade of A-10 by MEARS?!?!? How can this be?? Who can score one jersey and A-10 with a clear stain on the front of the jersey and then the same firm scores a jersey with no stains, "consistent wear for the player and position" and mark it down to an A-8 for "light wear"?? The answer is you cannot. Troy there is a clear discrepancy in the scoring of these two jerseys. There is absolutely no way the Fingers jersey can be an A-8 and the Krausse jersey is an A-10.
What is clear here is that subjective decisions were made to grade these two jerseys. Had MEARS had additional A's jerseys from 1974 they would clearly observe that the Fingers in question has consistent wear and is not "light" in any way. Secondly, I cannot understand how the Krausse jersey can command an A-10 with a very visible stain on the front waist area.
Please review my email and your two certifications. I have laid out clear and convincing evidence that the Fingers jersey is underscored and the Krausse is most likely overscored by one point.
Please let me know your findings.
Sincerely,
Mark
Troy initial response to my initial email…
I remember that jersey and I do recall that it did have a very fresh, crisp appearance. All of your points are well taken, but even laundrying from days he didn't pitch would cause more wash and handling wear. If we ever have the chance to meet and compare the questioned jersey to your collection, maybe then I could re-consider. Although I do not have the same quantity of A's jerseys for comparison, I do have 100's of other commons and we based the evaluation of wear on comparison to those similar examples and the 1,000's of others we have examined. Although the wear was consistent with a pitcher's jersey, it still was lighter than most other examples we have examined. Although maybe that point could be further clarified, I feel it is consistent.
Troy
Troy,
First let me say I have had this jersey for almost two years, so it is not like I am demanding that this jersey be reassessed immediately. If I was interested in selling it I would press the point, but for now it is staying in my collection. If it does not get reassessed in 6 months, that is fine, but it does need to be reassessed at some point in the future.
With that stated I do not agree with your last email at all....
1. I do not agree with your laundering theory because the A's worn three uniforms, when most teams wore two. Therefore the jerseys were worn less and they were laundered less. Thus you cannot make a fair assessment based on comparisons from other teams and based on your 100's of other commons.
2. The best and most consistent assessment would be to compare the Fingers jersey to other A's jerseys from that year. The second best way would be to compare it to other A's jerseys from that era '72 -'76. The 3rd best way would be to compare the wear of the Fingers jerseys to other McAuliffe jerseys from that era. Using Rawlings, Wilson, Sand-Knit or any other manufacturer would not provide true results as other manufacturers use different types of material. So this would probably eliminate a majority of your comparables unless you have many A's and Red Sox jerseys from these years.
3. Your own statement below and on the MEARS Sheet,"The wear on the jersey is consistent with a pitcher's jersey" identifies that the jersey has consistent wear for a pitcher's jersey. Again this is a pitcher who pitched in 119 innings, not 250+. What more information do you need?? It is consistent with a pitcher's jersey therefore we are reducing the # by -2 !?!?! Troy, the facts just do not add up!! Whoever graded this jersey arbitrarily came up with a -2 on the scoring sheet and they did not take into account that 1. Fingers was a relief pitcher, 2. He only pitched in 119 innings, 3. the A's wore 3 jerseys instead of 2 like most teams and 4. the wear is consistent with other like "A's" jerseys from that same year and same era.
Troy, the facts and evidence is overwhelming that this jersey was misgraded by the assessor. Secondly, how does the gold A's flannel in this year's REA auction garner an A-10 when it clearly has a stain on the front of the jersey. Again, this is an arbitrary assessment that this jersey is completely perfect and without any imperfections, when it is indeed not.
When you put the Fingers jersey up to the Krausse jersey there is no doubt that the Fingers jersey should be an A-10 and the Krausse jersey should be a A-9.
The A-8 score devalues the Fingers jersey/my investment and the A-10 score increases the value of the Krausse jersey and increases MEARS investment or the owner of the jersey. This is not fair to me the owner of the Fingers jersey, nor the person who buys the Krausse. I have flannels from 68 - 71 with a ton of game use and no stains...do they receive an A-11???
Again, the assessment of the Fingers A's jersey is not correct and it needs to be reassessed.
Thanks,
Troy’s Response to my second email…
Mark
our grading system is based on the likely hood of being genuine/worn, with subtractions taking into consideration for flaws such as missing tag, rips, tear, or staining. In the case of the REA jersey, our evaluator, Dave Bushing, did not feel the stain was worthy of a point deduction and it definetely did not affect the authenticity.
Troy
My response to Troy’s second email
Troy,
What is the criteria for a stain and what is the criteria for wear??
Dave Grob continuously discusses how MEARS uses digital imagery and other assessment models to provide a factual assessment of a jersey. According to your score sheet it leaves it entirely up to assessor to remove 1, 2 or more points...based on what?? What data or criteria does MEARS use to reduce #s??
MEARS has significantly errored in the assessment of the Fingers jersey and your email below (now posted above for GUU) skips over every point I have made.
Your point below totally misses the points I have stated. I did not once state the Krausse jersey is not authentic. It is authentic, but it has a stain on the waist and no points were deducted. The Fingers has no stains at all, and according to your email and "has consistent wear for a pitcher", but your assessor marked it down -2. Can you explain this?? Could Dave Bushing have taken into consideration that he or MEARS owns the Krausse jersey and thus sways his decision toward the upper level??
Troy, you have to resolve this issue.
Mark
Troy refused to answer this email, so I sent the entire string of emails above to Dave Bushing and asked him to answer the email. Dave Bushing never responded so I sent this last email to Troy.
Troy.
Your grading system as it stands today is flawed. If the Krausse Jersey with a stain in the waist garners an A-10 and the Fingers jersey which in Mears own words "is consistent with the player and position", at it garners and A-8 due to "light wear" and based on all the facts that I have submitted to you, and you state, "all good points", there is no way the Fingers is an A-8
Look at MEARS record when it comes to grading Oakland A's knits from this era. It is very less than stellar...
73 gold Fingers, Heritage Auction, given a very high score by Mears, yet when I produce the clear and convincing evidence that it is fake, Mears agrees to reassess and determines it unable to authenticate.
74 white Jackson, Mastronet Auction, Mears give this jersey a high score, when indeed it has flaws including the font on back, I again submit my evidence to MEARS and it is downgraded -2.
73 or 74 green Jackson, Heritage Auction, Mears again gives this jersey a high score, I again send evidence to you showing the "A's" on front is inconsistent with any "A's" on any jersey from this era and ask for proof to produce any photo showing any A's player wearing this type of A's. Jersey according to you was downgraded -2.
Again the 74 white Jackson review by the other Dave before his employment with Mears is ruled a perfect jersey in every way. I sent the jersey to you and you agreed with my findings...The jersey is actually a Sal Bando which was also backed up by Lon Lewis who reviewed the jersey as well.
Again, MEARS needs to get this right. I have clearly laid out evidence that the scoring on this jersey is incorrect and it needs to be reassessed.
Sincerely,
Mark Weimerskirch
I have been asked to post what I know about the Krausse A's Flanne Jersey in the current Robert Edwards Auction and my experience in dealing with MEARS on this jersey which scored a perfect A10 on the MEARS scoring system.
Let me first discuss my relationship with MEARS... Over the last couple of years I have contacted Troy at MEARS to discuss their grading of Oakland A’s game used jerseys. It was first brought to my attention that Dave Mediema was working for MEARS and I questioned Troy on the credibility of Mediema as I currently owned a white Reggie Jackson jersey that was totally doctored and was given a pristine LOA from Dave Mediema. The jersey was originally purchased by a physician in Texas from a west coast dealer for $3,000.00. I sent the jersey to Troy who agreed with me that the jersey was a total fake and he advised me that Mediema was not working as an authenticator at MEARS, but was working as a historian and would contribute by writing columns for their website. Troy made it very clear to me that Mediema wrote the LOA before he was employed at MEARS and that he would not be working for MEARS at an authenticator in any capacity. I accepted Troy’s professional response and my only thoughts were on the physician who spent $3K on the jersey and he bought it based on Mediema’s LOA.
Over the next 18 months to two years, Oakland A’s jerseys from 1968 to 1980 (the years I collect) would come up for auction in auction houses including Grey Flannel, Mastro, SCP and Heritage. Some of the jerseys included a certification from Mears and many were scored in the A10 and A9 range. I reviewed these jerseys and would notice strong inconsistencies between the jerseys up for auction and the jerseys in my collection. I sent Troy evidence consisting of bullet points and photos of why I believed the jerseys were scored too high. Each time Troy reviewed my assessments and agreed to reduce the number on their scoring system. One jersey was a green Reggie Jackson knit jersey in a Heritage Auction and the other was a white Reggie knit jersey in at Mastro Auction. Both jerseys were reduced by a -2.
I also was the winning bidder on a 1973 gold Rollie Fingers jerseys from a Heritage Auction. When the jersey arrived I put it in my collection without really looking at it. Months later I pulled the gold Fingers jersey out of the closet and noticed many inconsistencies on the jersey including the size of the A’s on front, the size of the #s on back and the font was not from the ’72 – ’76 era, but from the ’70 and ’71 era. The jersey was given MEARS score of A6. They subtracted -4 for a stain on the shoulder and some very, very small stains on the front of the shirt. The jersey should have been scored “unable to authenticate” as it was not a Rollie Fingers game used jersey. I paid close to $3,700.00 for the jersey and Troy agreed to pay almost $2,000.00 back. I thought this was a lot to pay for a non-Fingers knit, but I agreed and I was pleased with the outcome.
During this time a green ’74 Reggie Jackson knit appeared in an SCP auction. The auction catalog stated it came with a MEARS certification and I could observe that the jersey was doctored in some fashion. I called SCP and MEARS and discussed by findings. The SCP executive director advised it did come with a MEARS LOA and MEARS stated they never even looked at the jersey. I had a second conversation with SCP to discuss my findings and they immediately pulled the jersey from the auction. I give SCP a lot of credit for pulling the jersey.
I then contacted Troy again and I advised him that MEARS has a strong propensity to miss-assess Oakland A’s McAuliffe jerseys and I offered to assess A’s jerseys for them in the future at no cost. I also sent them a CD-ROM that included photos over 80 A’s flannels and knits from 1968 to 1980 (McAuliffe years) to assist them assessing A’s jerseys. Troy asked me if he could put my entire A’s collection up on their website next to the “Duke Hott Collection”. I thought it was a great idea, but I have not taken Troy up on the offer.
In April of 2006, I was the winning bidder on a ’74 green Rollie Fingers game used knit from the Robert Edward Auction. I paid for the jersey and it was sent to my home. When I opened the box I looked at the jersey and the MEARS certification. It was graded an A8 as the assessor subtracted -2 for light wear, although it stated in other areas that the jersey was, “consistent with player and position”. This is very confusing and I did not agree with it. At that time I did not contact MEARS. I put the jersey up on the wall next to a green ’74 Joe Rudi.
Skipping up now two years later…REA has their yearly auction and I noticed a 1968 gold A’s flannel worn by Krausse. The jersey is certified by MEARS as an A10. I remembered that it was previously on the MEARS website under Bushing and Kinunen Sales section. At that time they had an asking price of $2,000.00 which I thought was astronomically high as this jersey had recently been up for auction two previous times and the winning bid was less than $500.00. I sent Troy and email and stated if he can get $2K for an A’s common flannel, I have dozen for sale if he wants them. I never heard back from Troy. I did though pay close attention to the MEARS certification on the Krausse jersey and I wondered how this jersey could command a score of a MEARS A10, their highest score, when it has a clear stain right in the middle of the jersey near the waist line. I thought how can my ’74 green Fingers receive a A8 when it has no stains, great wear or what MEARS states, “wear is consistent with player and position” and the Krausse jerseys scores and immaculate, impeccable, no flaw score of a MEARS A10 when it has a stain right in the middle of the jersey!!!. What followed next was an email conversation with Troy discussing the difference between the ’74 Fingers and the ’68 Krausse. Those emails are listed below.
I am a believer in MEARS, but their grading system is flawed. The point reduction system is so subjective that it really applies a “dart board” theory for reductions. Nowhere on their score sheet does it state how they deduct points…Do they subtract -1 for one stain and -2 for two stains? Do they subtract -1 for a stain the size of a dime and -2 for the size of a golf ball?? It is clearly up to the assessor to make deductions and as you can see from the MEARS assessments in the past they have completely missed the mark.
As for the Krausse jersey, you would have to be certified blind to not see the stain or discoloration on the front of the jersey. I have a gold ’68 Sal Bando with almost the exact color stain, only a bit smaller and off to the left of the button. I would not consider my Bando an A-10 jersey. It should probably be scored an A-9, but according to MEARS standard it would be a grade A10.
Was this jersey scored an A-10 because Dave Bushing owns or partially owns, or would receive a decent fee because he is selling for someone else?? I do not know, but it is apparent that Mr. Bushing got quite upset that individuals questioned the score on the Krausse jersey. Mr. Bushing had every opportunity to call me or email me to discuss the Krausse jersey. Instead, he refused to answer my questions sent to him and took to posting his comments on the MEARS website.
“We own 93 game used items in Robs current auction. Everyone is free to look up each and every lot and feel free to report the grade survey on this sight as to how many 10's, 9's, etc. Also, even if a mistake or stain was overlooked just like any mistake, if verified BEFORE SOLD, each item is guarenteed that we will buy it back. In addition, every item we own and put in an auction is listed. Does ANY OTHER PERSON WHO ATHENTICATES OR ANY FIRM OR AUCTION HOUSE OR ANY ON LINE AUCTION list potential conflict and offer a money back guarentee? Remember , this is for auction only. If we buy a piece and grade it and then sell it to a person who knows we owned and graded it, ie ( our entire for sale sight), I will NOT make a public announcement as to who the buyer is/was. That is nobody's business but the buyer. If he/she then decide to make it public or re-offer the item, regardless of price, it too is no concern of our BUT AS A PIECE CHANGES HANDS, OUR LOA STILL PROTECTS THE COST OF THE ITEM.”
My response to Dave Bushing’s posting…
It does not matter one bit how many jerseys you have in the REA auction. It does not matter that MEARS offers a money back guarantee. It does not matter that you do not make a public announcement as to who the buyer is. What matters is that you and MEARS accept responsibility for miss-assessing the Krausse jersey and reissue a new certification based on a second comprehensive assessment of the jersey and reduce the # based on MEARS 10-point system and the clear and convincing stain on the jersey.
As to Dave’s other posting…
I am just plain tired of putting out hundreds of evaluations only to be lambasted continuously by people who are more mysterious than Lou Lampson, people who have no real name or face, cynical self appointed so called experts that never comment on anything good anywhere but spend their time hiding from the public behind some handle and critising everybody else.
I am not mysterious at all. MEARS has my email address and phone number. They are the ones who refused to not return my emails and not address what is a clear and convincing mistake on the Krausse and Fingers jersey. I am not an expert in Oakland A’s jerseys, but I have a very good acumen of what they wore from 1968 to 1980. Past history has illustrated I have known more than the MEARS team and they acted like professionals and changed their scoring system on A’s jerseys and/or paid me some money back based on a jersey that was wrongly assessed by their team. I am not out to criticize any one. I am out to get the facts straight and in this case both the Fingers and Krausse jerseys need to be reassessed and issued a new MEARS certification.
Here are the emails between Troy and myself from earlier this week.
Troy,
I hope all is going well with MEARS and let me preface this email by stating there is only one professional jersey authenticators globally and that is MEARS. No other firm or person has the credibility, skill and experience as MEARS.
With that stated, I want to talk to you about two Oakland A's jerseys that were both graded by MEARS and what I strongly believe is an inaccurate grade on one, if not both jerseys. The first jersey is a green, 1974 Rollie Fingers jersey, (MEARS Cert #302227). This jersey was purchased by me in the REA auction of 2006. The final grade is an A-8 reduced from an A-10
because of a -2 on the MEARS worksheet for "Light Use". This jersey based on many factors and comparisons is graded too low and here are my points.
1. I own almost 50 Oakland A's knit jerseys from 1972 - 1976 and the Fingers jersey in question has the same or almost the same wear as all other jerseys. As a matter of fact, it rests right next to a green 1974 Joe Rudi and both exhibit the same wear, both have the same residue or dirt on the white letters and the green jerseys are exactly alike in color…no fading whatsoever.
2. In 1974 Rollie Fingers appeared in 76 games and 119 innings, in comparison Joe Rudi played in 126 games and had 468 at-bats, yet their jerseys are almost identical in condition.
3. As you are aware the A's wore three different jerseys in 1974 (green, gold and white).
McAuliffe sent six jerseys to the A's or two of each color. So it could almost be safe to say that Rollie could have worn this jersey in 25 games if he wore it in about 1/3 of his games. Compare that to Joe Rudi who would have worn his in 42 games and that does not take into consideration that either player wore the second green jersey. Yet again the jerseys exhibit the same wear.
4. The MEARS certification #302227 States under "Wear Characteristics" "Evidence Use": Moderate, "Wear consistent with player and position": Yes!!! If wear is consistence with the player and the position how can anyone subtract -2 for "light wear"?? Fingers was a relief pitcher. He was not sliding into second base or chasing foul balls, he was not even taking swings in the batter box, yet his jersey is scored a A8?!?! Does this mean that Fingers has to have as much wear as Joe Rudi, that Tom Quisenberry's jersey has to have as much wear as George Brett's or Bruce Sutter's jersey has to have as much wear as Ozzie Smith's?? The simple answer is "no". This Fingers jersey has significant wear for a relief pitcher who pitched in 76 games as compared to other A's jerseys from 1974 by players who had 450+ at bats.
5. When MEARS takes in submissions they do not do this via email, or photos, you take the jersey into your possession to make your determination because this is the best way to conduct an assessment of the jersey. The exact same point can be stated for comparisons. Right now MEARS uses in-house photos, magazines, yearbooks, periodicals, prior submissions certified by MEARS and also web-based photo sites like Corbis and Getty Images. All great references, but still not as good as another jersey from the exact same year, in the exact same color, from the exact same manufacturer, sitting right beside the jersey being assessed. I understand no firm has an actual comparable jersey for each team, each year, each sport, but again my point is the best type of comparison is when you have two identical jerseys sitting side by side. This is what I currently have and both the Rudi (468 at-bats) and the Fingers (119 IP) have the same wear.
6. The MEARS certification #30227 has a huge discrepancy on it. On the front is states' " Wear consistent with player and position" Yes, but on the worksheet the assessor marks in red pen,” light wear -2." How does the assessor come up with two different answers? How does the assessor come up with an objective determination to subtract two points from the jersey? "Jersey exhibits very light use." As compared to what?? A Corbis or Getty image?? A photo in the MEARS library? A photo of a prior submission?? The clear fact here is that the -2 grading was made subjectively and it is clearly inaccurate based on A's jerseys from this same year.
I can go on and on about why the Fingers jersey should really be ranked an A-10, but take into account with what I have just stated and compare MEARS certification #302227 Rollie Fingers and the 1968 gold vest worn by Lew Krausse, that was on the MEARS website and is now in the current REA auction. I have seen this exact same jersey in person and it has a clear stain on the front of the jersey, near the waistline and right on top of the button. The stain is approximately 1-1 1/2" in diameter, yet this jersey commands a grade of A-10 by MEARS?!?!? How can this be?? Who can score one jersey and A-10 with a clear stain on the front of the jersey and then the same firm scores a jersey with no stains, "consistent wear for the player and position" and mark it down to an A-8 for "light wear"?? The answer is you cannot. Troy there is a clear discrepancy in the scoring of these two jerseys. There is absolutely no way the Fingers jersey can be an A-8 and the Krausse jersey is an A-10.
What is clear here is that subjective decisions were made to grade these two jerseys. Had MEARS had additional A's jerseys from 1974 they would clearly observe that the Fingers in question has consistent wear and is not "light" in any way. Secondly, I cannot understand how the Krausse jersey can command an A-10 with a very visible stain on the front waist area.
Please review my email and your two certifications. I have laid out clear and convincing evidence that the Fingers jersey is underscored and the Krausse is most likely overscored by one point.
Please let me know your findings.
Sincerely,
Mark
Troy initial response to my initial email…
I remember that jersey and I do recall that it did have a very fresh, crisp appearance. All of your points are well taken, but even laundrying from days he didn't pitch would cause more wash and handling wear. If we ever have the chance to meet and compare the questioned jersey to your collection, maybe then I could re-consider. Although I do not have the same quantity of A's jerseys for comparison, I do have 100's of other commons and we based the evaluation of wear on comparison to those similar examples and the 1,000's of others we have examined. Although the wear was consistent with a pitcher's jersey, it still was lighter than most other examples we have examined. Although maybe that point could be further clarified, I feel it is consistent.
Troy
Troy,
First let me say I have had this jersey for almost two years, so it is not like I am demanding that this jersey be reassessed immediately. If I was interested in selling it I would press the point, but for now it is staying in my collection. If it does not get reassessed in 6 months, that is fine, but it does need to be reassessed at some point in the future.
With that stated I do not agree with your last email at all....
1. I do not agree with your laundering theory because the A's worn three uniforms, when most teams wore two. Therefore the jerseys were worn less and they were laundered less. Thus you cannot make a fair assessment based on comparisons from other teams and based on your 100's of other commons.
2. The best and most consistent assessment would be to compare the Fingers jersey to other A's jerseys from that year. The second best way would be to compare it to other A's jerseys from that era '72 -'76. The 3rd best way would be to compare the wear of the Fingers jerseys to other McAuliffe jerseys from that era. Using Rawlings, Wilson, Sand-Knit or any other manufacturer would not provide true results as other manufacturers use different types of material. So this would probably eliminate a majority of your comparables unless you have many A's and Red Sox jerseys from these years.
3. Your own statement below and on the MEARS Sheet,"The wear on the jersey is consistent with a pitcher's jersey" identifies that the jersey has consistent wear for a pitcher's jersey. Again this is a pitcher who pitched in 119 innings, not 250+. What more information do you need?? It is consistent with a pitcher's jersey therefore we are reducing the # by -2 !?!?! Troy, the facts just do not add up!! Whoever graded this jersey arbitrarily came up with a -2 on the scoring sheet and they did not take into account that 1. Fingers was a relief pitcher, 2. He only pitched in 119 innings, 3. the A's wore 3 jerseys instead of 2 like most teams and 4. the wear is consistent with other like "A's" jerseys from that same year and same era.
Troy, the facts and evidence is overwhelming that this jersey was misgraded by the assessor. Secondly, how does the gold A's flannel in this year's REA auction garner an A-10 when it clearly has a stain on the front of the jersey. Again, this is an arbitrary assessment that this jersey is completely perfect and without any imperfections, when it is indeed not.
When you put the Fingers jersey up to the Krausse jersey there is no doubt that the Fingers jersey should be an A-10 and the Krausse jersey should be a A-9.
The A-8 score devalues the Fingers jersey/my investment and the A-10 score increases the value of the Krausse jersey and increases MEARS investment or the owner of the jersey. This is not fair to me the owner of the Fingers jersey, nor the person who buys the Krausse. I have flannels from 68 - 71 with a ton of game use and no stains...do they receive an A-11???
Again, the assessment of the Fingers A's jersey is not correct and it needs to be reassessed.
Thanks,
Troy’s Response to my second email…
Mark
our grading system is based on the likely hood of being genuine/worn, with subtractions taking into consideration for flaws such as missing tag, rips, tear, or staining. In the case of the REA jersey, our evaluator, Dave Bushing, did not feel the stain was worthy of a point deduction and it definetely did not affect the authenticity.
Troy
My response to Troy’s second email
Troy,
What is the criteria for a stain and what is the criteria for wear??
Dave Grob continuously discusses how MEARS uses digital imagery and other assessment models to provide a factual assessment of a jersey. According to your score sheet it leaves it entirely up to assessor to remove 1, 2 or more points...based on what?? What data or criteria does MEARS use to reduce #s??
MEARS has significantly errored in the assessment of the Fingers jersey and your email below (now posted above for GUU) skips over every point I have made.
Your point below totally misses the points I have stated. I did not once state the Krausse jersey is not authentic. It is authentic, but it has a stain on the waist and no points were deducted. The Fingers has no stains at all, and according to your email and "has consistent wear for a pitcher", but your assessor marked it down -2. Can you explain this?? Could Dave Bushing have taken into consideration that he or MEARS owns the Krausse jersey and thus sways his decision toward the upper level??
Troy, you have to resolve this issue.
Mark
Troy refused to answer this email, so I sent the entire string of emails above to Dave Bushing and asked him to answer the email. Dave Bushing never responded so I sent this last email to Troy.
Troy.
Your grading system as it stands today is flawed. If the Krausse Jersey with a stain in the waist garners an A-10 and the Fingers jersey which in Mears own words "is consistent with the player and position", at it garners and A-8 due to "light wear" and based on all the facts that I have submitted to you, and you state, "all good points", there is no way the Fingers is an A-8
Look at MEARS record when it comes to grading Oakland A's knits from this era. It is very less than stellar...
73 gold Fingers, Heritage Auction, given a very high score by Mears, yet when I produce the clear and convincing evidence that it is fake, Mears agrees to reassess and determines it unable to authenticate.
74 white Jackson, Mastronet Auction, Mears give this jersey a high score, when indeed it has flaws including the font on back, I again submit my evidence to MEARS and it is downgraded -2.
73 or 74 green Jackson, Heritage Auction, Mears again gives this jersey a high score, I again send evidence to you showing the "A's" on front is inconsistent with any "A's" on any jersey from this era and ask for proof to produce any photo showing any A's player wearing this type of A's. Jersey according to you was downgraded -2.
Again the 74 white Jackson review by the other Dave before his employment with Mears is ruled a perfect jersey in every way. I sent the jersey to you and you agreed with my findings...The jersey is actually a Sal Bando which was also backed up by Lon Lewis who reviewed the jersey as well.
Again, MEARS needs to get this right. I have clearly laid out evidence that the scoring on this jersey is incorrect and it needs to be reassessed.
Sincerely,
Mark Weimerskirch