PCCE Panel Discussion

[kingjammy24]

good news..it sounds like chris nerat has indeed made it to the PCCE and even gone so far as to ask questions of the panel.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/426247/message/1208557598/PCCE+panel+discussion

"John Taube , Lou Lampson and I just finished our panel discussion. I was really expecting to hear some real tough questions but we got questions like whats the best piece we have ever seen, do autographs increase value, etc. etc"

rudy.

[hblakewolf]

I forwarded 3 "tough" questions on the site that was mentioned earlier on this Forum. As I expected, none of mine were presented. Specifically, one directed to Lampson about the green St. Pat's jersey, and what basis he had to write a LOA indicating it was not only game worn, but a legit. jersey worn on St. PAt's when no other examples have ever surfaced or been photographed?

What a complete joke.......

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[otismalibu]

I was really expecting to hear some real tough questions but we got questions like whats the best piece we have ever seen, do autographs increase value, etc. etc"

'We got' or we chose to answer?

[aeneas01]

man, i really wanted to make it to the pcce to confront lampson - but i got cold feet, got scared. much safer and easier for me to anonymously air my gripes from the comfort of my command center, in mom's basement. but one day...

[trsent]

I have to admit, I prepared myself to ask the question on the panel of Lou Lampson:

"Lou, I would like to know your system that has your signing letters of authenticity for items in major auction houses, but you as an authenticator has no way for the public to contact you. I have found that there is no public phone numbers listed for your authentication, and not even an email address or web site to offer this service. I ask this question as it has been brought to my attention that people in the industry would often like to contact you to discuss how you decided your grade of authentic for certain items."

I wrote the whole question all out and everything, and then I showed up around 3:45PM just as the group was leaving the discussion. My bad, but it took over an hour to drive the 25 minute drive from my home to the convention.

I will admit, I wanted to ask the question when the answer would be recorded as public record, as a little while later, Chris Nerat (http://gavelchat.sportscollectorsdigest.com/) offered to introduce me to Lou Lampson as he just finished a conversation with Lou. I declined, as I waned to approach the question in a group format.

My bad for being late, sorry to all my fans.

I will mention this also, in discussions with some top people in the industry who do not own or work at auction houses, all today at the convention, they all agreed on one point - They basically agreed that Lou Lampson is very knowledgeable about his work and though he may make mistakes, he tries very hard to be accurate in his authentications.

I found this to be neat to hear people who do not hire Lou Lampson to authenticate items were speaking highly of him.

One thing was made very clear to me, and I already knew this but I would like to repeat it - No matter how hard the few regulars on this forum try to convince the public - Lou Lampson is not looking to commit fraud with his authentications. Lou is brought in to view items, and he does deny authentication on many items. He is offering an opinion, and though he may make mistakes from time to time (like some green jersey that just won't go away), he is paid to give his opinion.

Anyway, I was told by someone in another avenue of the sports memorabilia industry other than game used that they miss my posts on Game Used Universe. This person, one of the top dogs in the sports memorabilia industry who has never posted on this discussion group, told me they enjoyed reading my honest, fair and politically correct views and they missed them.

Another day in the life...

[otismalibu]

Anyway, I was told by someone in another avenue of the sports memorabilia industry other than game used that they miss my posts on Game Used Universe.

Are you sure this isn't a case of Eve White requesting more input from Eve Black?

:)

[kingjammy24]

i know i risk my own sanity by responding to one of your posts joel but here goes..

"Lou Lampson is not looking to commit fraud with his authentications."

ok good! phew. glad we finally resolved that! while we're at it, can you also ask those clairvoyant folks who really shot jfk? it's been on my mind for awhile and i'd love to finally know. because if lou were looking to commit fraud he'd obviously inform others of his real intentions. he'd probably even work it into his introductions. "hi i'm lou lampson. i have 8000 photos and i like to commit fraud".

lou authenticated this cano/phillips/johnson jersey and stated that no other players had worn #14 in 2005. in fact, 2 other players had worn #14 in 2005. 1) lou, as the paid professional authenticator, didn't check a roster. this equates to gross negligence at best. fraud at worst. 2) he then made up a story about how cano was the only one to wear #14, which he wasn't, in order to make the jersey a cano rookie jersey and add value to it. this makes him a liar at best and a fraud at worst.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=8496

gross negligence and lying do not qualify as "mistakes". they qualify as gross negligence and lying.

"Anyway, I was told by someone in another avenue of the sports memorabilia industry other than game used that they miss my posts on Game Used Universe. This person, one of the top dogs in the sports memorabilia industry who has never posted on this discussion group, told me they enjoyed reading my honest, fair and politically correct views and they missed them."

yeah. i was once emailed by the son of an imprisoned nigerian dictator who requested my help in transferring $10 million out of his father's account. imagine that..ME..helping a real dictator! and becoming rich in the process!

"Another day in the life..."

indeed. you with your fans and me with my nigerian millions.

rudy.

[G1X]

Hi Joel,

It's good to see you back in the Forum. I will at least give you credit for two things - you sign your full name and give contact information each time you post, and you tend to follow the Forum Rules. I wish that everyone else in the Forum would do the same.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[trsent]

i know i risk my own sanity by responding to one of your posts joel but here goes..

"Lou Lampson is not looking to commit fraud with his authentications."

ok good! phew. glad we finally resolved that! while we're at it, can you also ask those clairvoyant folks who really shot jfk? it's been on my mind for awhile and i'd love to finally know. because if lou were looking to commit fraud he'd obviously inform others of his real intentions. he'd probably even work it into his introductions. "hi i'm lou lampson. i have 8000 photos and i like to commit fraud".

lou authenticated this cano/phillips/johnson jersey and stated that no other players had worn #14 in 2005. in fact, 2 other players had worn #14 in 2005. 1) lou, as the paid professional authenticator, didn't check a roster. this equates to gross negligence at best. fraud at worst. 2) he then made up a story about how cano was the only one to wear #14, which he wasn't, in order to make the jersey a cano rookie jersey and add value to it. this makes him a liar at best and a fraud at worst.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=8496

gross negligence and lying do not qualify as "mistakes". they qualify as gross negligence and lying.

"Anyway, I was told by someone in another avenue of the sports memorabilia industry other than game used that they miss my posts on Game Used Universe. This person, one of the top dogs in the sports memorabilia industry who has never posted on this discussion group, told me they enjoyed reading my honest, fair and politically correct views and they missed them."

yeah. i was once emailed by the son of an imprisoned nigerian dictator who requested my help in transferring $10 million out of his father's account. imagine that..ME..helping a real dictator! and becoming rich in the process!

"Another day in the life..."

indeed. you with your fans and me with my nigerian millions.

rudy.

Rudy, what does the $10,000,000 email have to do with anything and you bring up two situations that you had issues. I do not know all the details and I can tell you, I do not know much, but the truth is some of the top brass in this industry told me their feelings and since they have known Lou Lampson on a personal basis I posted their thoughts.

You can bring up a few situations, you can bring up exact details that Lou Lampson may have written or signed a letter of authenticity-opinion for, but if you wish to continue to state that someone is committing fraud, I think you need to do some more research or have the US Government investigate it because your accusations of fraud (and not neglect) are not proved without proof that you cannot provide.

I think when the US Goverment is finished investigating Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Miguel Tejada, they may have time to look into your concerns. I find it funny that Congress and the FBI is spending time investigating drug users, not drug dealers while our children are being taken from us in a country on the other side of the world.

So, what are you going to do with your millions or were you just making a joke? If so, I don't know what it had to do with my comments.


Hi Joel,

It's good to see you back in the Forum. I will at least give you credit for two things - you sign your full name and give contact information each time you post, and you tend to follow the Forum Rules. I wish that everyone else in the Forum would do the same.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Mark, thanks for the recognition that I am real, and like yourself, I fully identify myself when making any comments about anything in the industry. Full name and email address in every email. I stand behind all comments (unless edited by a moderator) 100% as being from me and I will gladly discuss anything via email in an adult manner.

Sometimes people forget, this is a discussion group. Sort of like the decisions Americans are going to have to make in an election later this year. Some views you will agree, some you will not like, but give everyone credit for having unique views.

[allstarsplus]

gross negligence and lying do not qualify as "mistakes". they qualify as gross negligence and lying.

rudy.

Rudy - Absolutely. Someone who doesn't hold themselves out as an expert calls it wrong once and you may call it a mistake. When it happens, over and over and over and you are paid for your opinion as an expert---can it really be a mistake time and time again?


I have to admit, I prepared myself to ask the question on the panel of Lou Lampson:

"Lou, I would like to know your system that has your signing letters of authenticity for items in major auction houses, but you as an authenticator has no way for the public to contact you. I have found that there is no public phone numbers listed for your authentication, and not even an email address or web site to offer this service. I ask this question as it has been brought to my attention that people in the industry would often like to contact you to discuss how you decided your grade of authentic for certain items."


Joel - A shame you didn't get to ask your question of Mr. Lampson. I wonder if you had made it to the event what Mr. Lampson would have done with your question.

Regards,
Andrew Lang
info@allstarsplus.com
202-716-8500

[kingjammy24]

I will at least give you credit for two things - you sign your full name and give contact information each time you post.. I wish that everyone else in the Forum would do the same.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net (gixc@verizon.net)


hey eric stangel, i think mark's taking potshots at you. jim caravello you too. holy smokes, it seems chris cavalier's in that camp as well. you're all heathens.

don't worry though. you guys are alright with me.

mark, if you'd like your personal preferences to become actual rules of the forum then i suggest you draw up a petition and present it to chris. live the dream! maybe we can also take dave bushing's complaints of "facelessness" into consideration and post little pictures of ourselves? i've got an especially handsome one that my wife took of me in the tub. sort of an "early-80s tom cruise meets late-90s michael richards" look.

by the way, i too will credit joel for posting his full name and contact info on each post. it's quite an accomplishment. seeing that beautiful sig file is well worth wading through the hundreds of posts about his love life, his poker pals, and his political views.

rudy.

[trsent]

hey eric stangel, i think mark's taking potshots at you. jim caravello you too. holy smokes, it seems chris cavalier's in that camp as well. you're all heathens.

don't worry though. you guys are alright with me.

mark, if you'd like your personal preferences to become actual rules of the forum then i suggest you draw up a petition and present it to chris. live the dream! maybe we can also take dave bushing's complaints of "facelessness" into consideration and post little pictures of ourselves? i've got an especially handsome one that my wife took of me in the tub. sort of an "early-80s tom cruise meets late-90s michael richards" look.

by the way, i too will credit joel for posting his full name and contact info on each post. it's quite an accomplishment. seeing that beautiful sig file is well worth wading through the hundreds of posts about his love life, his poker pals, and his political views.

rudy.

Rudy, at least I am real.

You folks like to live in the past. Oh Lou Lampson authenticated a jersey six years ago that we showed never existed. Joel posted something about his love life, Joel thinks he is better than everyone else, blah, blah, blah.

When you wish to have some recognition as being real and not faceless, I was told you were offered an interview with an well known Krause Publications reporter. I was told you turned it down. Any reasons you wouldn't accept an offer to be interviewed so some recognition can come from your extremely informative posts when you are not taking shots at Joel Marc Alpert as all your replies have since I posted this morning?

[G1X]

I won't argue the negligence issue, especially if an authenticator is not performing their proper due dilligence. However, to insinuate that someone is a liar or committing fraud without solid proof is dangerous ground to walk. We need to stick to known facts in this Forum and not speculate without solid evidence.

Thanks, Andrew, for being another in this Forum who always follows Forum Rules and signs your full name with contact information each time you post. I wish that everyone else in this Forum would do the same.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[both-teams-played-hard]

Thanks, Andrew, for being another in this Forum who always follows Forum Rules and signs your full name with contact information each time you post. I wish that everyone else in this Forum would do the same.


When I added my e-mail to every post, I recieved lots of SPAM. Also, some jackball tried to send me a virus. Good information is good information, regardless if it from a poster who uses his real name or email address.

[allstarsplus]

We all know that the World Wide Web gives that firewall to allow someone to create a fake name, address, email, etc. so I agree that someone can become who ever they want to and we may never know like our famous Colonel Rast (was that the name????)

I really enjoyed the Post Your Picture thread a while back so people could see what we all look like:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=13044&highlight=post+picture

then we have had several threads on specialties and even colleges and jobs people hold.

I will make my offer again to anyone that wants to come to Washington for a Nationals game that we can get together and if the dates work out maybe even sit in my seats!!! I know Jason Halliburton, Jim Reynolds and Mark Demers can tell you I have amazing seats. Even if you are a Mets fan or Phillies fan, let me know as Bill from Philly is joining me on May 20th.

Besides the knowlege I have gained here is the many friendships that I have made and fun we have had---isn't that what we are all here for???

[G1X]

BTPH,

Sounds like you need a new spam filter and security package :).

Seriously, I can understand people's concerns and reservations. I guess that I am a little old-fashioned and just feel that folks should be accountable for what they say, especially in matters of accusation, innuendo, etc.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[G1X]

Rudy,

As a matter of fact, I have discussed this issue with Chris Cavalier on several occasions and wrote to him about it once again earlier today. Instead of just complaining about things I would like to see changed, I actually take the initiative to try do something about it.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[otismalibu]

Joel likes everyone's identity to be out in the open.

Except for bidders/buyers on some of his eBay auctions.

That info needs to be kept secret.

[trsent]

Joel likes everyone's identity to be out in the open.

Except for bidders/buyers on some of his eBay auctions.

That info needs to be kept secret.

Yes sir, and eBay agrees with me.

They have made all listings private now too. Only the buyer is identified with their new system. They understood my thoughts that I emailed to them how no one has any business who bids in my auctions so they can email them for any various reasons.

Then again, you can attack me or you can join a discussion.

It always appears when people have no solution to a problem they bring up my eBay listings being private (not a negative feedback in over 18 months and 4500 feedbacks during that time) or a comment I made about a girl or something and bring it back up.

Grow up if you want to have a mature discussion. A weak argument is to bash the person making the argument instead of discussing the facts.

The fact is simple - I follow eBay rules and if a buyer has a question, my email address is posted in each and every listing I post. Why is it your business who bids in my auctions that you so much care about? All my listings are private per eBay's policies.

Now, once again, I have to make it clear. Don't bash me when I am making points I feel are valid. Why turn a discussion about something into a pick on Joel discussion?

Is it because you don't like to read the truth?

[kingjammy24]

i'd like to put some misconceptions to rest once and for all. the first is this imaginary notion of anonymity on the internet. it doesn't exist. i understand that many non-IT folks don't know how this wild and wooly thing works but suffice it to say there is always a trail, beginning with an IP address. i could create a "fake" email address via yahoo or some such, register here, use a fake name, post some insanity and chris cavalier would have no problem whatsoever tracing the IP back to my service provider who'd then easily be able to determine my identity. the service provider would have my full name, address, and credit card number and would be forced to hand it all over if required by law. everything necessary to serve legal papers or even an arrest if necessary. re: "colonel rast": as i recall, GUU traced the IP and found it came from AMI.

"I guess that I am a little old-fashioned and just feel that folks should be accountable for what they say, especially in matters of accusation, innuendo, etc. "

they are accountable mark. every person on this entire forum has been required to register with a full name, which is then displayed in via a public directory, as well as a valid email address which is then verified. to really hammer it home, people aren't even able to edit their comments once posted! once they say it, it's set in stone. how is that not accountable? i've been using the same ID and email address ever since i joined the forum.

how is it that dave bushing thinks i'm some ghost in the night when every one of his peers at mears from troy to grob to miedema has found the magical ability to email me? bushing's recent rants about faceless, nameless people hiding behind computers occurred literally as i was having direct discussions with troy and dave grob. so much for "hiding". bushing's accusations are ridiculous. he's been uttering them for years despite being repeatedly told by eric and chris that every single person's full name and valid email are displayed in public here. they're simply not automatically posted in each and every single post, which, for the purposes of accountability, is entirely irrelevant anyway. your suggestion of posting the info on every single post, in addition to the public directory, does nothing to increase accountability and would only result in more spam/viruses/scams sent to members. my email address is plastered at least 30 times all over this forum. posting it 2000 times doesn't make me any more accountable.

if people are going to discuss accountability on here, i just wish they'd do it with a sense of the facts.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Is it because you don't like to read the truth?

greg, he's got you there!


"Rudy, at least I am real."

i may be nothing more than a little wooden puppet carved by an old man but after recently meeting a gentlemanly cricket, i feel my dreams of one day being real are right around the corner.

rudy.

[otismalibu]

Grow up if you want to have a mature discussion. A weak argument is to bash the person making the argument instead of discussing the facts.

Sorta like focusing on the poster's signature info, rather than the subject matter they were discussing, eh?

To be honest, that was just a dangling carrot post. I just had to see if Charlie Brown would try to split the uprights.

But really, that post was from almost 2 hours ago. We need to quit living in the past.

What is the going rate for a rodeo clown these days?

And for the board member that emailed me privately...

I checked my records and you haven't won any of my past auctions. Sorry, I only answer email from former customers. Hope you understand.

[ndevlin]

You all are mean to each other. Lets move to a new thread.

[ChrisCavalier]

You all are mean to each other. Lets move to a new thread.

I agree that we all should move on to a new thread unless there is something constructive to be added here.

Along those lines, I thought I would clear up a previous post that suggested Rudy wasn't a real person. I have personally met Rudy when I was out of town on business. We had lunch together and a very pleasant conversation about the hobby as well as other things. Though Rudy and I don't always agree on everything, I will say that he is a very real and intelligent person. He has also followed all the registration requirements to post on the site.

I really feel kind of foolish even having to say that Rudy is a real person. However, given the comment that a number of people in the industry mistakenly think he is some created "persona", I thought it would help to correct that misconception.

With that said, again, let's keep things constructive or this thread will need to be locked.

Sincerely,
Chris

[G1X]

Most publications such as your local newspaper will not publish an opinion piece (such as a "Letter to the Editor") without identifying the writer. They require that you identify yourself before they will publish your opinion piece. And no matter how many times you have an opinion published or are on file with the publication, your contact information is printed each and every time you are published.

It's all about accountability and credibility - it's there for everyone to easily and clearly see - right underneath the words you have written. There is no hiding as it's all there in the open attached to your words. There is no searching old newspapers, archives, or a publication's data base to figure out who the writer is. It is a very simple and effective method that has been around for a long time and seems to work real well.

There are other websites that require signing your full name and contact information each time you post. Anyone with a basic journalism background understands this concept and the reason for it.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[aeneas01]

There are other websites that require signing your full name and contact information each time you post. Anyone with a basic journalism background understands this concept and the reason for it.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

honestly mark, this is pure nonsense.

take a stroll over to the washington post's discussion board and tell me how many posts include the author's full name and contact information. and please don't try to tell me that chokochuckles, csdiego, coffeewx, fee336 or the many other names you will find there are, in fact, full names.

take a stroll over to the new york times' discussion board and tell me how many posts include the author's full name and contact information. and please don't try to tell me that crowny2, jorian319, fleet_footjones, bob_z, jfreed or the many other names you will find there are, in fact, full names.

of course, i suppose, it could be argued that the post and the times know little concerning "basic journalism" - but that's another topic. but what can't be argued is that most (all?) public discussion boards do not require registered members to post their full names and contact information after every post. and for very good reason.

take a stroll over to the obama'08 discussion board (blog section) and tell me how many posts include the author's full name and contact information. and please don't try to tell me that scott from australia, musicians4obama, chicago biker chick, jessica in iowa, bo knows politics, not a sheep or the many other names you will find there are, in fact, full names.

take a stroll over to the mccain 2008 discussion board (blog section) and tell me how many posts include the author's full name and contact information. and please don't try to tell me that chemicalkinetics, armyeod, armymom08, comfortablynumb, diverdown, read, lee310, gotjohn or the many other names you will find there are, in fact, full names.

as i mentioned before mark, the notion that discussion board posters are faceless cowards protected by anonymity is absurd. and what's even more absurd are those that attempt to play this card when criticized in the public domain. frankly, i believe that the very posts that have caused so much dismay among the likes of bushing, nerat and others will make them better at what they do - and that's good for all collectors, good for the hobby, no?

[RKGIBSON]

I suggest that we all meet at the Emerald City to meet the Great and Powerful Rudy. We can have Toto pull the curtain back and get a look at the Great Rudy. They put in your request for a Brain.

Roger

[lund6771]

I'll put in a request for some courage...since most of us on this site are the cowardly lion, hiding behind our keyboards

[G1X]

Hi Robert,

I would first like to say that I noticed where you have recently started listing contact information in each of your post. I am assuming and hoping that at this point, you have had no adverse repercussions.

Regarding your recent post, I have worked for several newspapers in two states, so I have a very thorough understanding of how it all works. As we all know, anyone with a computer can post on any newspaper's "discussion board" (fancy name for a "chat room"). However, one's opinions will never make it into the legitimate newspaper print unless they properly identify themselves. There is no "nonsense" about that - it's the way it works, and it works quite well.

As for "discussion boards" not requiring an ID, I will quote the words of another memorabilia website - words written by one of the most respected gentlemen in this hobby: "For posts on this forum, ALL USERS MUST list a complete identification (first and last name) along with a VALID E-MAIL address. This is to ensure that there is complete accountability for anything a person wishes to state and a means for someone to contact them. As this service is available to both subscribers and non-subscribers, the rules apply to all users."

In general, most people tend to be more careful and thoughtful in choosing their words when they have to sign their name to something they've written. They usually tend to become even more civil when they communicate in a live telephone conversation (sounds like you and Richard Rusek had such an experience earlier this week). And they become even more so when they meet to discuss an issue in person. It's human nature.

On another point you raised, I never insinuated that anyone was a coward - I never even called anyone out by name. I simply made a suggestion. My suggestion was merely an idea to try to raise us to a little bit higher standard, that's all. I would like to think that we are more than just another "chat room".

At this point, we have all beaten this dead horse beyond recognition. I communicated my idea and concerns directly with Chris Cavalier, and he said that there are no plans to change the posting rules. I will respect Chris' decision and say no more on this subject!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[Danny899]

I'm wondering what some avid collector who stumbles upon this site for the first time will think when instead of finding useful, informative information about his passion, he finds bickering, immaturity and a serious clashing of egos. Is there a way for him to navigate around the madness and the never ending Lampson posts? Yes, we know you have no confidence in Lou lampson, let it go! Who cares what your real name is? Go back to posting useful information. There used to be real beneficial information posted here that was generated among mature, humble friends. It was a lot more fun then. Dan

[both-teams-played-hard]

I'm wondering what some avid collector who stumbles upon this site for the first time will think when instead of finding useful, informative information about his passion, he finds bickering, immaturity and a serious clashing of egos. Is there a way for him to navigate around the madness and the never ending Lampson posts? Yes, we know you have no confidence in Lou lampson, let it go! Who cares what your real name is? Go back to posting useful information. There used to be real beneficial information posted here that was generated among mature, humble friends. It was a lot more fun then. Dan
Dan
It's a full moon today. By my data, 2 days before and after a full moon brings out salty attitudes from forum members. I agree that the Lampson topic is old hat. Let's discuss steroids, potential HOFers, ManRam, Steiner, X-bats and other meaningful topics.

Warren Humphrey
Los Angeles, CA.
Todd Davis' social security number:457-55-5462
b-t-p-h@earthlink.net

[trsent]

Dan
It's a full moon today. By my data, 2 days before and after a full moon brings out salty attitudes from forum members. I agree that the Lampson topic is old hat. Let's discuss steroids, potential HOFers, ManRam, Steiner, X-bats and other meaningful topics.

Warren Humphrey
Los Angeles, CA.
Todd Davis' social security number:457-55-5462
b-t-p-h@earthlink.net

Warren, is Todd Davis that guy on the radio who is trying to sell a service to protect your credit?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Warren, is Todd Davis that guy on the radio who is trying to sell a service to protect your credit?
Yes. If you know someone trying to open a credit card with his name, then please call lifelock.

[aeneas01]

I would first like to say that I noticed where you have recently started listing contact information in each of your post. I am assuming and hoping that at this point, you have had no adverse repercussions.

while my decision to post my name and email in the sig field may seem to coincide with the smattering of outcries for more accountability and transparency, let me assure you that it's just a coincidence. i decided to post my info because a couple of forum members that i correspond with regularly outside of the board had contacted me on behalf of other members, members they have known and communicated with for years. as it turns out, and no surprise here, we have some very considerate members here at guu that apparently felt contacting me outside of the board, despite having access to my email, would be an intrusion given that i didn't publicly post my info. as such, i decided to post my contact info to let these forum members know they are free to contact me directly at any time. and to those members that did approach me in such a considerate manner, it was very much appreciated.


Regarding your recent post, I have worked for several newspapers in two states, so I have a very thorough understanding of how it all works. As we all know, anyone with a computer can post on any newspaper's "discussion board" (fancy name for a "chat room"). However, one's opinions will never make it into the legitimate newspaper print unless they properly identify themselves. There is no "nonsense" about that - it's the way it works, and it works quite well.

what does this have to do with the price of rice in china mark? the topic is whether or not forum members should be required to post their full names and contact info when they post to a discussion board, not whether or not they should be required to provide this info when submitting an op ed piece to a newspaper. you claimed that there are other discussion boards that require registered members to state their full name and contact info after every post and implied that there was some sort of journalistic reasoning for this - and i stated that this was nonsense. because it is. and, fwiw, a discussion board is not a fancy name for a chat room - they are two different animals.


As for "discussion boards" not requiring an ID, I will quote the words of another memorabilia website - words written by one of the most respected gentlemen in this hobby: "For posts on this forum, ALL USERS MUST list a complete identification (first and last name) along with a VALID E-MAIL address. This is to ensure that there is complete accountability for anything a person wishes to state and a means for someone to contact them. As this service is available to both subscribers and non-subscribers, the rules apply to all users."
i would suggest you take a closer look at this mark...


On another point you raised, I never insinuated that anyone was a coward - I never even called anyone out by name.

and i didn't say that you did mark. look, if folks don't feel like offering this info every time they post i understand entirely and all the power to them. and if folks want to include this info i say the same, great and all the power to them - heck, it's a great way to promote one's business free of charge...

[G1X]

Robert,

One of my favorite local ads here in the DC area ends with the following statement, "If you don't get it, you don't get it".

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[grandpahoo]

I need a cheatsheet so I can keep track of who's fighting with whom.

[trsent]

I need a cheatsheet so I can keep track of who's fighting with whom.

I don't think there is any fighting, I believe the problem is there are a few issues in this discussion.

First, no one stood up and challenged the three authenticators during their live discussion last Friday. It was too bad, and I blame myself, I got stuck in traffic and missed the discussion.

Second, this switched to a debate over if people should have to sign all posts with their real name and email address. All forum rules appear to have been followed in this topic, just many people feel there should be more accountability on this forum, even though no one is breaking any rules.

The problem you see is some people have a hard time discussing a topic and take offense to people who don't see things their way. I thought the concept of a forum such as this was so we could show both sides to any topic.

Can you guess who I'm supporting this November?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Can you guess who I'm supporting this November?

Joel
Let's keep politics and religion off of this forum. Thanks in advance for your understanding!

[aeneas01]

Robert,

One of my favorite local ads here in the DC area ends with the following statement, "If you don't get it, you don't get it".

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

mark, what is it that you think i "don't get"?

- i get that a discussion board is not a chat room, that they are two completely different animals - you are under the impression that they are the same thing, that a discussion board is, as you put it, just a "fancy name for a chat room".

- i get that an internet discussion board is not the same as the op ed section of a newspaper - you're under the impression that they are the same thing.

- i get that most (all?) discussion boards do not require registered members to furnish their full names and contact info after every post - you are under the impression that the opposite is true.

- i get why most (all?) discussion boards do not require registered members to furnish their full names and contact info - not only are you under the impression that many boards do require this info, but you are also under the impression that "anyone with a basic journalism background" understands why.

- i get that accountability is in place whether or not a forum member chooses to provide their full name and contact info at the end of every post, i get that they can be held legally responsible for what they write - you are under the impression that unless a full name and contact info is provided after every post a forum member is an untraceable ghost.

if you ask me, those that pine for full names and contact info after every post aren't seeking accountability - they're seeking leverage. and i, for one, am happy to see that forum moderators didn't side with you on this mark.

[G1X]

Robert,

What a wonderful job of putting words in my mouth. You are literally making things up as you go along, adding things that were never written, taking statements out of context, and then rolling it up into one great big ball and interpreting it all as you see fit. Why don't you just go ahead and rewrite my posts while you are at it.

You seem to have missed the crux of my original point and got off on lord-knows-what tangents that were never written. I am talking apples and the next thing I know, you are saying that I am talking about zebras. You keep referring to all of these things that "I am under the impression of", and I have no idea where I stated any of those things. A simple point and analogy that I was trying to make has suddenly taken a life form of its own.

I am not even sure why I am bothering to respond as this has gotten so out of hand. I somehow find myself trying to defend my words that were not even my words to begin with. I find myself being "under the impression" of things that I never knew that I was "under the impression of". This is all sort of surreal, but I want to personally thank Robert for pointing all of this out to me.

One of the best adages I ever heard goes something like this, "The height of arrogance is to tell someone else what they are thinking."

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[aeneas01]

Robert, What a wonderful job of putting words in my mouth. You are literally making things up as you go along...

sorry mark, didn't think i was putting words in your mouth given your following statements, words, which led me to believe you were under the impressions i outlined earlier.


.."discussion board" (fancy name for a "chat room").


Most publications such as your local newspaper will not publish an opinion piece (such as a "Letter to the Editor") without identifying the writer. They require that you identify yourself before they will publish your opinion piece. And no matter how many times you have an opinion published or are on file with the publication, your contact information is printed each and every time you are published.


There are other websites that require signing your full name and contact information each time you post. Anyone with a basic journalism background understands this concept and the reason for it.


There is no hiding as it's (user name and contact info) all there in the open attached to your words. There is no searching old newspapers, archives, or a publication's data base to figure out who the writer is.

you believe that forum members should be required to furnish their full names and contact info after every post - in your first post to this thread you complimented joel for doing this and in your next post you complimented andrew for doing this as you were under the impression (sorry) that this was guu forum policy. then, in an effort to support your opinion, you pointed to newspaper policies and then claimed that other discussion boards require this of registered members. and that's when i jumped in with my dos centavos.

so let's leave it at this: you think it should be mandatory, i don't. you can't convince me and i can't convince you. but it was a topic worth debating.

on an entirely different note, there's something i've been wanting to ask you for quite some time - why don't you have a website for your great items? it's clear that you are one of the most, if not the most, reputable and honest dealers around given the extremely positive experiences guu members have had with you. is it that ebay meets all of your needs? you don't want to hassle with a website? if it's the later, have you ever checked out the homestead diy website? it's an amazing product, amazingly affordable, outstanding customer service, great e-commerce capabilities, the list goes on. i mention this because i am currently building my business's website using their product and it's a snap! it's so great that i will probably use it again to set up another site to sell my helmets when the time comes - or at least use it to show my inventory when i offer them at guu!

[G1X]

Robert,

Yes, I thought that it was a topic worth discussing as I feel that there are both pros and cons to the issue, but we probabaly got a little side-tracked. My apologies for being condescending in a couple of my remarks. I was a bit frustrated as I felt that you were making assumptions that weren't my intent. I can see where we were perhaps not on the same page as it appears from your last post that you thought that I assumed it was GUU policy for members to post their full names and contact info. I was only trying to say that I wish people would post their name.

I had discussed this topic with Chris about a year ago giving my opinions on the pros of changing the policy to make it a requirement, and I did so again this past week. I knew that it probably wouldn't fly, but I felt strong enough about it to discuss. I accept and respect Chris' decision, and understand folks' concerns about spams, viruses, etc.

My main point about other websites requiring full information in each post was to point to MEARS and their requirement. I was not intending to insinuate that there were many websites that have this requirement because I assume that probably 99% do not require it. I was trying to point out that it is possible and can be workable. Maybe I should have been more distinct and just said MEARS and left it at that.

As for the newspaper thing, I was trying to point out that opinions such as "Letters to the Editor" (not op-eds, as that is a different animal) require an identification, and maybe that could be a model to follow. Having experience in that field, it is something that is kind of ingrained in the brain, and I felt that it was something to strive for on our end.

Anyway, enough of all of that as I fear that I'm going to receive death threats if I don't shut up. My apologies to the forum members for the boredom and the dead horse (it's now a skeleton).

Thanks for the information on the website and the very kind words. There's actually a little method to the madness in my set-up. I don't even use ebay to sell items (but I buy way too much on ebay :) ). I'll email you offline later this week and discuss further as the website sounds like something worth looking into.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[dodgersfan]

Let's lock this one up.


Rudy