Grey Flannel: Pete Gogolak Helmet a Mess...

[aeneas01]

the "game-used" gogolak helmet listed at gf is a mess and i really don't know how it passed mustard - issues are as follows:

1. "ny" side decals inconsistent for the era, far too large and font is off.
2. "king-o'shea" marking on back of lid amateurishly engraved into helmet, not professionally heat stamped.
3. "made in u.s.a" marking on back of helmet, see #2.
4. evident that the helmet was once painted entirely red, inconsistent with bills and giants.
5. paint has been scraped from rivet heads and jaw pad rivets in an attempt to give the appearance of factory finish.
6. interior overspray indicitive of nonprofessional paint application - not done by factory or reconditioner.
7. "o-shea" logo would be covered in blue paint if repainted by giants, reconditioner.


side decal comparison:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp01-3.jpg



hand engraved manufacturer logos, apparent red underpaint:
top two photos: red paint visible on rivets and chips areas, middle two photos: manually engraved manufacturer logos, red paint again visible, bottom three photos: example of hand engraved manufacturer logo compared to manufacturer heat stamp.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp02-2.jpg



gogolak wearing an rk helmet with the bills and giants, not a tk (tru-curve) style helmet as seen in the ad:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp03-2.jpg

a couple of notes: i've sent this info to grey flannel and will let the forum know if i get a response. also, sadly, pete gogolak's 36-year-old died a few months ago while skiing - an avalanche which killed one other as well. avalanches kill an average of 25 people a year.

[aeneas01]

guess grey flannel doesn't like hard questions about their items - i emailed gray flannel the above information and the following emails transpired:


----- Original Message -----
From: GFCSPORTS@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 03:38
Subject: Re: Lot #365: Circa 1966 Pete Gogolak NY Giants Game-Used Suspension Helmet


Dear Sir
Please let us know who you are and if you are a registered bidder in good standing. If so we will be happy to address your questions.
Richard Russek



----- Original Message -----
To: GFCSPORTS@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 05:30
Subject: Re: Lot #365: Circa 1966 Pete Gogolak NY Giants Game-Used Suspension Helmet


richard:

please help me understand what your questions have to do with the helmet's authenticity?

robert


----- Original Message -----
From: GFCSPORTS@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 06:18
Subject: Re: Lot #365: Circa 1966 Pete Gogolak NY Giants Game-Used Suspension Helmet


Robert
We have informed you of our corporate policy.Please let me repeat them to you.We only respond to people that we know by full name,that are registered active bidders in good standing. If you are not you may register and bid and we will be happy to answer your questions . If not please do not contact us again because we will not respond.

Richard Russek
President
631-288-7800 x288
www.greyflannel.com (http://www.greyflannel.com/)
www.greyflannelauctions.com (http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/)

----- Original Message -----
To: GFCSPORTS@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 06:31
Subject: Re: Lot #365: Circa 1966 Pete Gogolak NY Giants Game-Used Suspension Helmet


richard:

you made no mention that it was your corporate policy until now - i will share our emails with fellow collectors at game used forum. no response necessary.

robert

[aeneas01]

richard told me that if i didn't forward the info requested then not to bother contacting grey flannel again "because we will not respond."

yet he did. again and again....


------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message -----
From: GFCSPORTS@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 06:47
Subject: Re: Lot #365: Circa 1966 Pete Gogolak NY Giants Game-Used Suspension Helmet


Thank You for getting the word out. We truly appreciate it.


Richard Russek
President
631-288-7800 x228
www.greyflannel.com (http://www.greyflannel.com/)
www.greyflannelauctions.com (http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/)



----- Original Message -----
To: GFCSPORTS@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 06:50
Subject: Re: Lot #365: Circa 1966 Pete Gogolak NY Giants Game-Used Suspension Helmet


no prob richard -

just wish you would have honored your "we will not reply" note - now i have to add this exchange as well!

robert



----- Original Message -----
From: GFCSPORTS@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 06:53
Subject: Re: Lot #365: Circa 1966 Pete Gogolak NY Giants Game-Used Suspension Helmet


Great Thank you again

Richard Russek


President
631-288-7800 x228
www.greyflannel.com (http://www.greyflannel.com/)
www.greyflannelauctions.com (http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/)



----- Original Message -----
To: GFCSPORTS@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 06:58
Subject: Re: Lot #365: Circa 1966 Pete Gogolak NY Giants Game-Used Suspension Helmet


again, no prob richard - you keep sending them and i'll keep posting them....


robert

[mvandor]

The same auction houses simply continue to amaze with their complete disinterest in ensuring accurately represented items in their auctions. Why there's not more litigation against them is truly surprising to me. Theses are just class actions waiting for an aggressive consumer attorney to take the bull by the horns.

[kingjammy24]

richie then wonders why GFC receives such negative press on this site. as i understand it then his corporate policy is to ignore the well-intentioned expertise of anyone who doesn't intend on bidding. brilliant. it's remarkable that almost none of the other auction houses share richie's brilliance and are willing to interact with anyone, regardless of their bidder status. clearly GFC's concerned about authenticity. can someone who's still in the good graces of GFC convey the points of robert's research to those folks before some hapless soul gets taken?

"Why there's not more litigation against them is truly surprising to me."

one guy took GFC to court and the ensuing antics proved hilarious to all. well, except to richie.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/2005/07/24/2005-07-24_the_score_hears___lots_of_gr.html

rudy.

[Eric]

"Milian then went ballistic: "What you have is just a paragraph signed by some schmo named Charles Jeffrey with no address, no phone number!" she screamed."

Hmm, a letter of authenticity signed by someone with no address and phone number. If Charles Jeffrey had 8,000 photos, he could be considered a foremost expert in the field

[cohibasmoker]

There you have it, "The Standard of The Industry".

[Vintagedeputy]

I think we all need to email Dick, I mean Richard, the same questions....

inundate his mailbox I say!

[helmets]

Robert:

The way I see it, an exchange like that only forces one to get out the magnifying glass to see what else we can find. I think we have a mission.

[beantown]

the "game-used" gogolak helmet listed at gf is a mess and i really don't know how it passed mustard - issues are as follows:

1. "ny" side decals inconsistent for the era, far too large and font is off.
2. "king-o'shea" marking on back of lid amateurishly engraved into helmet, not professionally heat stamped.
3. "made in u.s.a" marking on back of helmet, see #2.
4. evident that the helmet was once painted entirely red, inconsistent with bills and giants.
5. paint has been scraped from rivet heads and jaw pad rivets in an attempt to give the appearance of factory finish.
6. interior overspray indicitive of nonprofessional paint application - not done by factory or reconditioner.
7. "o-shea" logo would be covered in blue paint if repainted by giants, reconditioner.


side decal comparison:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp01-3.jpg



hand engraved manufacturer logos, apparent red underpaint:
top two photos: red paint visible on rivets and chips areas, middle two photos: manually engraved manufacturer logos, red paint again visible, bottom three photos: example of hand engraved manufacturer logo compared to manufacturer heat stamp.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp02-2.jpg



gogolak wearing an rk helmet with the bills and giants, not a tk (tru-curve) style helmet as seen in the ad:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/sub/comp03-2.jpg

a couple of notes: i've sent this info to grey flannel and will let the forum know if i get a response. also, sadly, pete gogolak's 36-year-old died a few months ago while skiing - an avalanche which killed one other as well. avalanches kill an average of 25 people a year.

Robert,

This helmet almost looks like the "hack" work of Ebay'er "flipsyr".....Chris

[aeneas01]

Robert,

This helmet almost looks like the "hack" work of Ebay'er "flipsyr".....Chris

when i saw that butchered job, especially the very laughable "made in u.s.a." hack job, i immediately thought of our old friend flipsyr. as a matter of fact, the wilson example i used was the hatchet man's handy work. so, yes, i wouldn't be at all surprised if he had a hand in this mess.

what i would like richard to explain, or his crack authenticator to explain, is what possible reason would a player, em or reconditioner have to scrape the paint off of rivet heads? grey flannel, or their authenticator, obviously has no idea how tough this is to do - especially when trying to do it in a manner that would make it appear that they were never painted. it's insane. it's a joke.


Robert: The way I see it, an exchange like that only forces one to get out the magnifying glass to see what else we can find. I think we have a mission.

you would think a guy in richard's position might take a different approach...