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View Full Version : Selling memorabilia as an "investment"



kingjammy24
04-09-2008, 06:36 PM
many people seem to hawk sports memorabilia by proclaiming it to be a great investment. (apparently, it's such a great investment that they need to sell it asap. or maybe they're so altruistic that they want you to reap all the astounding future profits.) while we've all seen items occasionally flipped for a handsome profit, i'm unaware what enables them to be able to accurately judge the investment potential of an item. unlike more mainstream investments such as commodities, real estate, or securities, sports memorabilia doesn't have reams of data showing the specific, long-term financial performance of various items. where can i find out, for example, the financial performance, over the past 10 yrs, of 1992 kirby puckett game-used jerseys? sporadic anecdotes, atypical cases, and anomalies hardly qualify. auction house results are all over the place with identical items often fetching very different prices. i suspect their pitch is meant to help part buyers with their money by promising that the item isn't just a fun luxury; it's an "investment"! if a buyer is reluctant to part with a large sum over a relatively irreverant item then surely the promise that the item will make them money will do the trick. it's a common pitch and i'm sure most of us recognize as a steaming pile of BS, but it strikes me as blatantly irresponsible and borderline fraudulent when dealers and auction houses enter the realm of investment advisors, lending advice for which they have absolutely no data to support.

the last AMI catalog had an article discussing the game-used market in recessionary times. i was very interested to read what i thought would finally be a rare, substantial article discussing the financial performance of this market. i was expecting to see hard data, profound economic theories applied in relevant, enlightening ways, and some great statistical analysis. as i should've guessed, the article had none of them. the article was a puff piece that basically said the game-used market will remain strong and that "blue-chip" pieces retain their value in tough times. while it was shocking to hear an auction house whose livelihood depends on brokering sales "objectively" reassure the market that all is well, it was even more surprising to see that none of their claims were backed up by a single shred of data or evidence. it was nice to read that blue-chips will retain their value if only because i have a love of the blindingly obvious. (AMI regularly sells tons of non-blue chip pieces so i found it amusing that they were implying that the value of those collectibles may tank.)

this month's AMI catalog, replete with the usual spelling and grammatical errors, tempts with more inane financial advice. kieta (whose angelyne-esque photo always bring a smile to my face) offers that "At no other time in history has the memorabilia market been so strong. Prices and values are holding strong and steadily compounding". holding and compounding. ok. no data supporting any of that. skip forward past her bizarre discussion of the "avant-guard" (like avant-garde but with more protection?), and she puts her investment advisor hat on and offers up this stunning gem: "Acquisitions in memorabilia are a dynamic (and exciting) way to diversify your portfolio - invest for college, or just to enjoy en route to a cozy retirement. One great feature in sports or celebrity memorabilia is that you can always safely redeem." wow. just. wow. is that a new offer from AMI? or just an incredibly irresponsible, inaccurate, garbage sales pitch? if it's the former, then rob mitchell who's been trying to hawk his black betsy on ebay for a long time now may want to take them on it. it gets even better: "..more often than not, the general trend of enhancement in our industry provides security and promises greater rewards..than any other financial endeavor". any data to help support any of that massive assertion? of course not. she wraps up in fine style by saying that sports memorabilia "glitters with immensely more radiance than a featureless stock certificate". (highest stock returns for 2007 (year-ending totals): MOS 327%, AKS 174%, OI 168%, NOV 140%, AMZN 135%). i'd like to see the last item that returned over 327% in the current market. i'd even be interested in 120+% returns. surely AMI wouldn't spout such huge assertions without solid data, so i'd love to hear it.

while i understand that kieta's missives are often little more than nonsensical, misspelled combinations of imaginary words, this sort of pseudo-financial drivel strikes me as an irresponsible and inaccurate way of marketing items. false advertising constitutes fraud as does giving unqualified financial advice. the truth is that as an auction house, AMI's entire livelihood solely depends on the commissions collected from transactions. the higher the transaction amount and the greater the volume, the more AMI makes. whether the transactions make sound financial sense isn't their concern. in fact, it's in their best interest for buyers to grossly overpay as that means higher commissions. the idea that AMI is reassuring buyers that their purchases are "investments that you can always safely redeem" is so disingenous and shady that it conjures up the idea of a weasel telling a chicken that its eggs are safest if looked after by the weasel.

to wrap it up with a little comedy, here's an "investment":

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380014717306

rudy.

byergo
04-09-2008, 09:39 PM
I agree with your commentary. Very insightful.

I must add however that I'm amazed that Shoeless Joe's "priceless" Black Betsy has gone begging for so long. Is there not a rich guy in the world with great taste in game used memorabilia? That is one SWEET BAT!

If I ever win the lottery you won't see that bat on ebay much longer!

David
04-09-2008, 10:41 PM
Whether or not something is a good investment depends on the buy price. So how can an auctioneer claim a just started auction lot is a good investment when he doesn't yet know the buy price?

both-teams-played-hard
04-09-2008, 10:58 PM
kieta (whose angelyne-esque photo always bring a smile to my face)
Rudy
Do you live in L.A.? I didn't realize anyone outside of the TMZ knew who Angelyne was. I saw her at the drugstore a couple of weeks ago. No, I am not bragging.

bigtruck260
04-09-2008, 11:20 PM
Excellent observation and analysis Rudy.

The recession has actually caused me to back away from a few things.
It is rare that I actually turn a profit on anything I sell these days...mostly because I don't collect the highest dollar pieces - rather things that are special to me and me only.

The only things I plan on buying as investments are items that I purchase exclusively for trade - I don't plan on keeping them long, but I know that someone else desires it.

Black Betsy...hmmm. I have seen this thing on eBay so much it has literally lost much of its luster with me. Seeing Mitchell in Beckett after he bought that thing (smug grin and all) made me wonder about the investment potential of such a bat. Knowing now that there is none, and that he may actually take a hit on it if it sells someday has forced me to stay within my own means. The game used market is at such a point now that items are selling at their eventual value...

Every time I see something of Colby Rasmus listed (the very few items out there) I can't help but wonder what happens if he is injured (Greg Oden)...and never sees an MLB diamond. What will one do with a $2500 jersey? That is one expensive car wash rag.

Dave

PS - Rudy, are you saying that John Olerud is not a solid investment? In 1991 this lot might have sold for the amount he is asking for...:D

earlywynnfan
04-12-2008, 12:30 AM
How the heck does someone accumulate 68,000 John Olerud cards??

Ken

commando
04-12-2008, 02:16 AM
That Olerud link was a priceless way to end your post... Funniest thing I've seen all week!

As a former securities broker, I know darn well that I could not say any of the drivel spouting from that AMI catalog without serious consequences. Fortunately for AMI, their standard is much lower than that of a Series 3 or 7 broker... And there's no governmental agency directly responsible for policing their nonsensical financial advice.

I will end my comments here. Please note that unlike aeneas01, I care deeply about the health of this hobby and just wish to smile while looking forward (is that a mountain of John Olerud cards in the distance?)

aeneas01
04-12-2008, 03:45 AM
I will end my comments here. Please note that unlike aeneas01, I care deeply about the health of this hobby....

amazing.

cohibasmoker
04-12-2008, 07:07 AM
That Olerud link was a priceless way to end your post... Funniest thing I've seen all week!

As a former securities broker, I know darn well that I could not say any of the drivel spouting from that AMI catalog without serious consequences. Fortunately for AMI, their standard is much lower than that of a Series 3 or 7 broker... And there's no governmental agency directly responsible for policing their nonsensical financial advice.

I will end my comments here. Please note that unlike aeneas01, I care deeply about the health of this hobby and just wish to smile while looking forward (is that a mountain of John Olerud cards in the distance?)

Interesting thread. I have highlighted your final comment because I have to say that it has me somewhat miffed - would you care to elaborate?

Jim

frikativ54
04-12-2008, 07:34 AM
Interesting thread. I have highlighted your final comment because I have to say that it has me somewhat miffed - would you care to elaborate?

Jim

I think he meant that he likes to keep optimistic, and that maybe Aeneas doesn't always look on the bright side. Not that Aeneas doesn't help the health of the hobby. Looks like something was mis-worded, but not an intentional insult. :) Don't worry, Aeneas, I have no stake in the matter and am not passing judgment upon you in posting this.

34swtns
04-12-2008, 07:41 AM
Please note that unlike aeneas01, I care deeply about the health of this hobby and just wish to smile while looking forward (is that a mountain of John Olerud cards in the distance?)

Just a guess, but I think he must've been joking. (Right?)
I doubt anyone would question aeneas01's love of the hobby. His posts have far and away been some of the most informative I've read on this forum.

As for the "solid" investment potential of game used items, well, my wallet would like to express it's total disagreement with that statement. I've, personally, yet to see any substantial return on anything that I've bought and sold over the last few years, aside from a few bucks here and there. More often than not, I lose at least a little money on most items. I don't sweat it too much, since I mainly buy what I like, don't buy with the intention of "flipping", and generally only sell in order to enable another purchase. I just prefer to think of the lost money as the "rental" fee for owning an item for awhile. ;)

helmets
04-12-2008, 08:53 AM
I will end my comments here. Please note that unlike aeneas01, I care deeply about the health of this hobby and just wish to smile while looking forward (is that a mountain of John Olerud cards in the distance?)


WTF?
I too am waiting for your explanation.

commando
04-12-2008, 12:08 PM
I think he meant that he likes to keep optimistic, and that maybe Aeneas doesn't always look on the bright side. Not that Aeneas doesn't help the health of the hobby. Looks like something was mis-worded, but not an intentional insult. :) Don't worry, Aeneas, I have no stake in the matter and am not passing judgment upon you in posting this.


Sorry, guys... My dry sense of humor hopefully speaks for itself. I'm here BECAUSE of members like aeneas01 and it feels great to be part of the most progressive, influential organization our hobby has yet seen. Those of us who have collected GU for any length of time knows the sting of buying bad stuff, and I will continue making (bad) jokes about the way things used to be.

Please know that my comment was a joke and I'll gladly take aeneas01 to dinner the next time he passes through Southern Oregon!

cohibasmoker
04-12-2008, 04:47 PM
Commando, sorry I mis-read your thread.

Hey, if Aeneas01 ever gets to southern New Joysey, he has a meal waiting and I think I may be able to find a couple of nice cigars.

Jim

aeneas01
04-12-2008, 06:01 PM
Please know that my comment was a joke...

i thought your comment meant that you had caught on that i'm actually lou, as in lampson. rudy did a good job smoking me out in other threads by tricking me into singing my own praises. alas, i knew it couldn't last forever....


Hey, if Aeneas01 ever gets to southern New Joysey...

joysey? i called joysey home many, many moons ago. pop was a marketing guy for union carbide and the east coast was one of our early stops. we set up shop in leonia and he commuted to manhattan. palisades amusement park was still open for business, that's how long ago it was.

one of the few memories i have of my leonia days is a girl in my class named beatrice alda - could never understand why folks made such a fuss when her dad showed up for school plays and such. that is until my parents explained that her dad was big in tv - the star of a new sitcom called mash.