Historic Auctions - Favre

[mattmueller]

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?SaleNo=709&LotIdNo=115001&txtSearch=favre&hdnSearch=true

Ignoring who provided the LOA on the Favre linked above in the upcoming Historic auction for a minute, I have a couple of educational questions for the Favre experts.

Was 2000 included in the period where a Favre would have a picture of him with the jersey? Absent the Favre LOA, does Favre's foundation track hologram numbers to indicate if the hologram is indicative of an authentic signature or authenticating game use? Was Favre a size 48 in 2000? Sleeves that were "lightly elasticized"? What would be typical of customizations of the tail for 2000? Any other telling signs on this jersey?

Thanks,
Matt

[gwh11]

Matt,
I sent them an email two days ago explaining why this is not a legitimate Favre game worn jersey. The jersey should be a size 52, not a 48. The sleeves should have no elastic in them for 2000 whatsoever. I recently looked at photos and video of Favre in every 2000 game, and in no instance did Favre wear sleeves like this. I also think the jersey is a bit long.

The absence of a Favre hologram, LOA, etc. shouldn't be an issue at this point. I recently examined first hand two supposed Favre game used jerseys that had the paperwork, holograms, photo,etc. that a collector sent to me to look at, and neither were game used.

All that being said, I hope Heritage pulls the jersey soon.
Guy

[zonker]

gwh11 just being curious were those 2 jersey's both from 2002 and show the same guy in both pic's in the back ground of the jersey being held or signed by favre?

[gwh11]

No, neither were 2002's.
Guy

[zonker]

thank's just wondering the last 2 bogus one's i seen were 2002's

[mattmueller]

Guy- Thanks for the response, looks like I am picking up on the right things. The reason I asked about the Favre photo was to get a better idea of the time period he did that, and also if the photo does exist, have additional questions about 2000s similar to zonker's questions about the two 2002s. But your comment begs a question, what year were the two gamers with all proper Favre items that weren't right if they weren't the 2002s?

[mvandor]

Favre has worn open sleeves his entire very long career with the Pack, has he not? A major visible player like Favre, with photos everywhere to compare to, is misauthenticated by Historic and their fav authenticator? And we're supposed to believe this isn't fraud, but an honest error?

Somewhere, the dumbest agent in the FBI MUST be thinking this industry is an opportunity for advancement, right?

[yanks12025]

Ain't the jersey being sold at Heritage's upcoming auction not Historic auction. Just thought i would put that out there when everyone is saying historic when the link takes you to heritage.

[mattmueller]

My apologies to Historic Auctions. Heritage is what I was talking about, thanks Yanks.

[mvandor]

Ain't the jersey being sold at Heritage's upcoming auction not Historic auction. Just thought i would put that out there when everyone is saying historic when the link takes you to heritage.
Good catch, I missed that when I viewed the item, sorry Historic.

As a side note I recently won an interesting Chargers jacket on Heritage owned by Ron Mix for a Chargers 25 year anniversary celebration/event in the mid 80's. Had a huge stain on it so got it pretty cheap, just liked the jacket, not that it had much historical value. They shipped quickly and it was very well packed, a very good experience. But I was saddened when I read the LOA from Mix that came with it. The jacket was a gift from him to none other than Lou Lampson, which sorta made it Lou's jacket.

Got it cleaned to remove both the stain and the stench of LL from it. Amazingly the stain came out and it fits me perfectly (probably awfully tight on ole Mix), so it worked out, but I might burn the LOA. :p

[gwh11]

mvandor,
Favre wore ribbed elasticized sleeves during the '94 and '95 seasons. You touch on a salient point in that there are plenty of visual sources to draw on when examining these jerseys.

Matt,
The jerseys I examined had 2000 and 2004 year/size swatches.

Favre jerseys with his LOA, hologram, etc. began appearing around 2002. That's not to say a 2000 (or any older) jersey accompanied with such documentation isn't legitimate, it's just that I don't believe they were marketed that way until around that time.

For a little more information and opinion, you might want to check out Chris Nerat's SCD article on this subject: http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com/article/favre%20fakes
This online version lacks a few other pictures the print version had, but most of the text is there. In the print version Chris mentioned that collectors may contact me if they have further questions about this, so here's my email address: gwh11@yahoo.com. I'm happy to try to answer any other Packers jersey questions as well.

Guy

[Eric]

Good catch, I missed that when I viewed the item, sorry Historic.

As a side note I recently won an interesting Chargers jacket on Heritage owned by Ron Mix for a Chargers 25 year anniversary celebration/event in the mid 80's. Had a huge stain on it so got it pretty cheap, just liked the jacket, not that it had much historical value. They shipped quickly and it was very well packed, a very good experience. But I was saddened when I read the LOA from Mix that came with it. The jacket was a gift from him to none other than Lou Lampson, which sorta made it Lou's jacket.

Got it cleaned to remove both the stain and the stench of LL from it. Amazingly the stain came out and it fits me perfectly (probably awfully tight on ole Mix), so it worked out, but I might burn the LOA. :p

Was Lampson's association with the jacket mentioned in the auction description?

If it wasn't, isn't that odd, given the fact that Heritage uses Lampson as their game used expert?

Wouldn't it add credibility on a lot, for an auction house to mention that their game used expert had given this to the player himself?

Should it have been a surprise to the buyer?

As far as I can tell it wasn't in the description. Here it is
1984 San Diego Chargers 25th Anniversary Personal Jacket of Ron Mix.</I> In 1984 the AFL celebrated the Silver Anniversary of the San Diego Chargers. The Starter jacket seen here was the personal one owned by the team's Hall of Fame tackle Ron Mix. A commemorative patch has been applied over the heart, with the player's name embroidered on the chest opposite of that. The front of the jacket includes a ring-shaped stain that has small remnants that have migrated northward to the patch. An overall exceptional example that ranks among the finest in the way of aesthetic beauty as well as rarity. Comes with personal handwritten letter of provenance from Ron Mix.

[mvandor]

Was Lampson's association with the jacket mentioned in the auction description?

If it wasn't, isn't that odd, given the fact that Heritage uses Lampson as their game used expert?

Wouldn't it add credibility on a lot, for an auction house to mention that their game used expert had given this to the player himself?

Should it have been a surprise to the buyer?

As far as I can tell it wasn't in the description. Here it is
1984 San Diego Chargers 25th Anniversary Personal Jacket of Ron Mix.</I> In 1984 the AFL celebrated the Silver Anniversary of the San Diego Chargers. The Starter jacket seen here was the personal one owned by the team's Hall of Fame tackle Ron Mix. A commemorative patch has been applied over the heart, with the player's name embroidered on the chest opposite of that. The front of the jacket includes a ring-shaped stain that has small remnants that have migrated northward to the patch. An overall exceptional example that ranks among the finest in the way of aesthetic beauty as well as rarity. Comes with personal handwritten letter of provenance from Ron Mix.

I don't recall Lampson being mentioned nor was I overly concerned about authentication for a jacket that was issued to a retired player for a ceremony. Just said it came with the Mix letter. As I had nothing in my collection from Mix and really liked the jacket, I thought I'd take a nominal gamble and see if the stain would come out, which it did. Really didn't think of wearing the fool thing as I'm 5'10" and 200 lbs. Even if Mix lost alot of weight after his playing days, he was listed as 6'3". Thought I'd find a way to display it if it came clean, but the darned thing shows up with the Mix letter addressed to Lou (which was a surprise but I could care less since we're not talking a GU item here) and fits me perfectly. Hope others don't think its blasphemous for me to have it cleaned and to be wearing it. Certainly wouldn't do that to a GU jersey!

[Eric]

I don't mean to hijack the thread here. Maybe it fits in because we're talking about Heritage.

My point was not about the authenticity, but rather the authenticator's history with the item. If Heritage (or any auction house who employs Lampson) thinks he truly is an expert, then why would you not mention that this item sourced from Lampson.

Seems like a piece of information that should have been included.
Eric

[mvandor]

I don't mean to hijack the thread here. Maybe it fits in because we're talking about Heritage.

My point was not about the authenticity, but rather the authenticator's history with the item. If Heritage (or any auction house who employs Lampson) thinks he truly is an expert, then why would you not mention that this item sourced from Lampson.

Seems like a piece of information that should have been included.
Eric

Yup, odd to leave it out, reckon because it wasn't a GU item, they thought it was no biggie. Can't say I was upset really, it was just sort of like finding another stain on the jacket they forgot to mention. :D

[helmets]

Lampson sources alot of items through the auction houses. He not only "authenticates" but he collects, and buys and sells. A lot of the items that are in the auctions come straight from the collection of Lou, and are authenticated by...Lou.

[Eric]

I have heard things like that before, but do you know that to be a fact? If so, how?

[mvandor]

To be clear, my jacket came with a letter ADDRESSED to LL from Ron Mix authenticating the jacket. There was no authentication of it by LL.