Photomatch help on 1998 Mark McGwire Game-Used Bat

[Tay1038]

Hello,

I just recently purchased/won the 1998 Mark McGwire Game-Used/Auto Rawlings bat through Huggins and Scott auction that ended tonight. I'm posting here tonight to see if anyone could share some light on what they think about this being a possible match on photos from Getty Images.

These photos are from Aprill 11, 1998 vs. SF Giants.

I have also posted a photograph that Kyle Hess did on his belief to why it is a photomatch. Does anyone else wish to comment?

Also, the next day Mark went 3 for 4 with three homeruns vs. the Arizona Diamondbacks. I have searched Getty and could not find any game shots. I was wondering if someone could help me find a few photographs/or video footage of him in that game with his bat. This could possibly be the bat he used to hit HR's #5, #6, #7... Which would be pretty cool!

If you look at photo #5 (McGwire Check Swing) and compare it to photo #2 you can see the mark that runs horizontal which kinda looks like a burn mark (darker shade) and the black marks. Any comments?

Thanks in advance!
Taylor
Tay1038@aol.com

[cjmedina1]

Hi Taylor

I would love to have bid on this bat but I have a commitment that I couldn't pass up.You pitchers looks like the one you won but I'm no expert... The only problem I have with this bat is the PSA/DNA grade 9.I thought it was too high of a grade from what I can see from the pics.Your bat does have all the goods of a great MAC Bat,including a sweet autograph.

Carlie Medina III
carliemedinaiii@sbcglobal.net

[Tay1038]

Hi Carlie,

Thanks for the response. It's always nice to hear others thoughts.

***NOTE***
In my initial post, I stated photos were from April 11, 1998 when actually,

Photo #4 - Is from April 13, 1998
Photo #5 - Is from April 12, 1998

[Tay1038]

I just wanted to clarify that McGwire hit homeruns #7, #8, #9 on April 14, 1998 vs Arizona Diamondbacks @ Busch Stadium. Not #5, #6, #7. This bat looks to be already matched on April 12th, and 13th @ Com Park.

Homerun #7 - 3rd Inning off Jeff Supan
Homerun #8 - 5th Inning off Jeff Supan
Homerun #9 - 8th Inning off Barry Manuel

I would still like to hear any thoughts on these possible photomatches from other members.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Those photos look like the bat to me. I would call it a photo match.

[Vintagedeputy]

I say no match.

Not by that photo anyway. The bat he's holding is turned too much and is too blurry to be certain......

[kingjammy24]

re: the pics provided

my vote: uncertain. while i don't think the pics show a solid match, they also don't seem to discount the bat outright.

rudy.

[Tay1038]

Thanks to the both of you for your comments...

"VintageDeputy"
I agree with you on the quality of the photograph(s) but I don't agree with you on the position in which you think the bat is in. I think the position/markings on that bat lines up just right. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how you think the bat it turned to much to throw the chance that it is not a match. Could you go more in depth to why you think the bat it turned too much/not a match?


"Rudy"
I also agree with you on the photo part. The visual is not totally crystal clear. I think it's possible that its the same bat, but like Jeff @ Birdbats told me, "you'd almost need the clarity of first generation prints to know for sure." "I certainly wouldn't rule it out based on those shots." I totally agree. But for right now, this is all i have :(

"For the both of you"

Please take a look again at the pattern from the markings on the barrel. In the photograph with McGwire and the bat (Check swing) there are 3-4 distinct markings on the barrel. If you start off in the middle of the barrel, you'll see the burn looking mark that runs horizontal. The size, shape, and distance to me looks to be very similar if not exact. From there go up diagonal to the right and you'll see the two corresponding black ball marks with almost, if not the exact spacing between the two of them as well. Finally, if you head southwest from there you'll see the lonely ball mark. The position of all of these can still be seen pretty clear even without a crystal clear photograph of it. Any comments after that?

Kyle Hess, Rob Steinmetz... Any input? Anyone else.. ?

[Vintagedeputy]

I think that the ball mark you mention is larger on the game photo than your bat. Also, the other marks appear to me to be closer/further apart between the photos. Photos can be deceiving though. Did you have any info that brought you to that specific date?

[gameused]

I would say not a match, although the markings on the barrel look to be similar to the getty pics, you need to look at the Rawlings centerbrand (black oval ring), look at the getty pics it looks like the black ring is farther from the red ring. On your bat the black oval is closer to the red ring.

Bobby

[Tay1038]

I think that the ball mark you mention is larger on the game photo than your bat. Also, the other marks appear to me to be closer/further apart between the photos. Photos can be deceiving though. Did you have any info that brought you to that specific date?

I can see where your coming from. The photographs are so compact and blury that it makes it hard to make an accurate judgement. The "uncertain" statement but possible is probably the way to go for now until I can find some more clear shots.. How often do bats have the similiar pattern of ball marks?? I mean, I guess there are other people out there that look like us, but I mean the number margin is much greater.

The only information that leads me to an early gamer is what Jeff from (www.birdbats.com (http://www.birdbats.com)) has posted on is web-site. I quote Jeff;

""three-quarters" signatures he gave at the ballpark or sometimes affixed to balls and flats. Mark's signature evolved through the years, but by the time he got to St. Louis, it was pretty consistent through the end of his career.

[Tay1038]

Sorry, hit the button by accident. To finish my post to "Vintagedeputy"

"Because Mac rarely signs bats, a signed gamer is a real find and worth a premium compared to an unsigned bat. It seems that when he does sign bats, he takes his time and gives a full signature, not the "half" or three-quarters" signatures he gave at the ballpark or sometimes affixed to balls and flats. Mark's signature evolved through the years, but by the time he got to St. Louis, it was pretty consistent through the end of his career." (www.birdbats.com (http://www.birdbats.com))

"Usually, you can date Mark's autograph with the notation he typically added below it. When he joined the Cardinals, he'd sign "STL 25" under his name. Late in the 1998 season, he started writing "98" instead, though occasionally still used "STL 25." After breaking Maris' record, it became common for Mac to add "70" under his name. In 2000, he wrote "2000," and in 2001, he wrote "01'." (Note that he consistently and errantly put the apostrophe after the "1" instead of before the "0.") For other examples of legitimate McGwire autographs through the years, check out Randall Hahn's site, www.mcgwire.com (http://www.mcgwire.com/randall/yearbyyear.html)." (www.birdbats.com (http://www.birdbats.com))

Also, the batch number is 265, this is more than likely his first order for the 1998 season.

[Tay1038]

I would say not a match, although the markings on the barrel look to be similar to the getty pics, you need to look at the Rawlings centerbrand (black oval ring), look at the getty pics it looks like the black ring is farther from the red ring. On your bat the black oval is closer to the red ring.

Bobby


Hi Bobby,

Thank you for your thoughts. My opinion on your statement. I think it is the angle of the bat in which it makes the black ring farther back. There you can only see a small portion of the side. I have not received the bat yet, but when I try to reproduce this angle to see if we can conclude something. In fact, with bat in hand we can see every angle it has to offer.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[gameused]

Hi Bobby,

Thank you for your thoughts. My opinion on your statement. I think it is the angle of the bat in which it makes the black ring farther back. There you can only see a small portion of the side. I have not received the bat yet, but when I try to reproduce this angle to see if we can conclude something. In fact, with bat in hand we can see every angle it has to offer.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Taylor,

Glad to chime in. It's too bad we can't get crystal clear getty photos anymore, with a photo you would be able to see every mark on the bat and you could even match the grain. I made the two getty images larger, not the best clarity on getty pics when enlarged from a compressed format. Photo matched or not still a very sweet bat of Big Mac!

Best Regards,

Bobby

[thome25.com]

Here it is with the bat set at nearly the same angle. Notice the burn or rub mark set between the red lines. To the right you see the grain running away at the same distance. Last the marks in the circles apeear to lign up. If it's not the same bat, it's made for a good conversation amonst us.

[byergo]

I'd call that a good photo match.

[Tay1038]

Thome25/Byergo thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts as well.

"Thome25" - You did a great job illistrating what you see. Hopefully this will attract other people to voice their opinion.

[thome25.com]

Well, considering I have been critical of forum members for not assisting as much as they should, I figured I better get off my dead as%$#$ and do my part. Hope it helps.





thome25.com

[3arod13]

This is where I believe it's a photo match. Where the dark line of pine tar is, both the picture and your bat also show the same lightness above it.

Just my opinion.

Tony

[3arod13]

Tried to use lines to show what I mean

[Jags Fan Dan]

I agree, the handle was the first thing I considered, and then the markings on the barrel clinched it.

[Tay1038]

Tony,

Great illistration! I hope you don't mind if I keep this for my personal records. Same to everyone else who chiped in. Kyle Hess, Thome25... You did a great job as well. I'm happy to see that this thread on my "new" bat sparked some good convo. To everyone else who has shared their opinions, thank you!

Hoprfully I can dig up some good photographs/video to the April 14th, 1998 game vs. Arizona Diamondbacks to see if this was actually a bat used to hit a homerun(s) during that historical season. That sure would be a cool find and for sure a hidden treasure to surface! Lets keep the fingers crossed! :) We can't mark it out just yet with these photos.

If anyone can find anything, please feel free to share it with the rest of us!

If anyone else would like to share some thoughts on the bat, please do!!

Thanks again!!

[3arod13]

Tony,

Great illistration! I hope you don't mind if I keep this for my personal records. Same to everyone else who chiped in. Kyle Hess, Thome25... You did a great job as well. I'm happy to see that this thread on my "new" bat sparked some good convo. To everyone else who has shared their opinions, thank you!

Hoprfully I can dig up some good photographs/video to the April 14th, 1998 game vs. Arizona Diamondbacks to see if this was actually a bat used to hit a homerun(s) during that historical season. That sure would be a cool find and for sure a hidden treasure to surface! Lets keep the fingers crossed! :) We can't mark it out just yet with these photos.

If anyone can find anything, please feel free to share it with the rest of us!

If anyone else would like to share some thoughts on the bat, please do!!

Thanks again!!

Of course you can. Great bat! Tony

[skyking26]

I see this as one of the closest photo matches ever. I cannot understand how people would discredit this?

Was the bat uncracked? Somebody said $1900+BP? Strong money these days for anything McGwire...

[Tay1038]

I see this as one of the closest photo matches ever. I cannot understand how people would discredit this?

Was the bat uncracked? Somebody said $1900+BP? Strong money these days for anything McGwire...


I know.. I was shocked to hear that myself.

The bat is stated as "cracked", However, I have always wanted to own a nice, true legit 1998 gamer of McGwire. That year basically sparked my love for the game as a kid. Finding one that was A) Photomatched, B) Signed, and then the very possibilty of C) Used to hit an actual Homerun(s) ***Still pending*** is what made me be so agressive.

I love my "new" pick up and am very satisfied with it. It will be a great piece to display for years to come. What a season to remember!

[Vintagedeputy]

I see this as one of the closest photo matches ever. I cannot understand how people would discredit this?

Was the bat uncracked? Somebody said $1900+BP? Strong money these days for anything McGwire...


As someone who doesnt think that it is a match (with absolute certainty), I think its unfair to use the word "discredit".

The hesitation comes in the fact that the game photos are just too blury in my opinion to be a solid match. I think its quite close and promising, but I still think that the ball marks shown are too far/close compared to the bat in question. I'm not saying its not the same bat, I just dont see a concrete identifier yet.

Jim

[Tay1038]

***Update to anyone who is intersted.

I received the bat today from Huggins & Scott and its awesome! There some very deep stitch marks in the barrel. I checked out the photographs even closer now with bat in hand and its a PERFECT photomatch. I will post more photographs on here soon so you can see! Thanks to everyone who shared their thoughts/photographs. Also, a special thanks to Jeff @ Birdbats for the helpful information on your webpage and through email. This is by far the best gamer I have ever owned! Thanks everyone!!

[cjmedina1]

Hi Tay1038

Can you email me. I have a few questions for you. Thanks in advance

Carlie Medina III
carliemedinaiii@sbcglobal.net