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View Full Version : AMI: Consigners = Authenticators?



kingjammy24
03-26-2008, 10:46 PM
i noticed an oddity in the current AMI auction.

Lot 14: 2007 Albert Pujols Game-Worn Cardinals Jersey
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=39880
An LOA will also be provided from a well-known Cardinals jersey expert.

Lot 37: 1990 Tom Brunansky Game-Worn Cardinals Jersey
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=42094
A 100% Authentic Team cert will come signed by a well-known Cardinals memorabilia expert

Lot 88: 1997 Mark McGwire Game-Worn Cardinals Helmet
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=42091
A 100% Authentic Team certificate will be signed by the well-known Cards expert

Lot 91: 2000 Fernando Vina Game-Worn Cardinals Helmet
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=42096
An LOA from a well-known Cardinals memorabilia authority will be forwarded to the top bidder

this well-known Cards expert is allowed to sign 100% Authentic Team certs? this is quite a collection of Cards items being auctioned off all with LOAs from this mysterious Cards expert. with so many pieces with the same LOA is it possible the Cards expert is also the consigner? If so, will AMI let me sign "100% Authentic" certs on items that I consign? sort of a "authenticate your own item!" deal for AMI consigners?

Lot 28: 2004 Roger Clemens Game-Issued, Signed Astros Jersey
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=41977
An LOA from Houston Sports Investments will be included

Lot 29: 2004 Roger Clemens Game-Used, Signed Astros Jacket
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=41975
Authentication comes via a Houston Sports Investments LOA

Lot 36: 2004 Roger Clemens Game-Used Astros Undershirt
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=41976
An LOA will accompany from Houston Sports Investments.

Lot 79: 2004 Roger Clemens Game-Used, Signed Astros Cap
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=41973
Authenticated with a letter from Houston Sports Investments

none of the Clemens items with HSI letters are listed as having been authenticated by AMI's "100% Authentic" team and on the undershirt, the only authenticator listed is Houston Sports Investments. Chris Boyd, are you the consigner of these items?

rudy.

ifirocked
03-27-2008, 06:12 PM
a bit odd the team would issue a Clemens jersey with a (6200) tag code. i know it dose happen at rare times such as a last moment add with a Joe Smith Mets ST jersey i bought from Steiner last year, But Clemens ??

kingjammy24
03-28-2008, 05:23 PM
dave o'brien? chris boyd? anyone?

dave, i've also heard that some AMI consigners may be allowed to bid on their own lots. can you confirm or deny?

just trying to suss out which auction house to consign to and if AMI will let me authenticate my own items and bid on them, then it may be the frontrunner! most of the pesky auction houses seem to insist my items go through third party authentication. something or other about a "conflict of interest". not sure what they're yammering about.

thanks,

rudy.

both-teams-played-hard
03-28-2008, 05:56 PM
I feel as though letters of authenticity are worthless. It doesn't matter who wrote the LOA, who owns the item or you stands to profit. If the item is real...then its real. With that said, it is an extreme conflict of interest to bid on your own items or for an auction bid to always meet the "ceiling price". Is anyone aware of "shill" bidding laws from state to state?

kingjammy24
03-28-2008, 06:29 PM
warren,

i agree that, for the most part, loas don't mean much. lampson's especially are completely and utterly worthless. i also agree that an item must stand on its own. however, i think we'd all agree that there are individuals in this hobby whose opinions carry weight. i think taube or caravello or specht's opinion on a bat holds value. i think your opinion on old nba gamers holds value. i think lon lewis' opinion on old 49'ers gamers, howard wolf's opinion on old phillies knits, and aeneas' opinion on helmets all carry weight and come from a place of knowledge and expertise. it'd be foolish to disregard their input on those respective items. after all, the entire premise of this forum is to leverage the knowledge of niche experts.

that said, being a niche expert says nothing about ones character or moral compass. when someone has no vested financial interest in giving their opinion, then collectors can at a minimum feel that they're getting unbiased advice. however, if a niche expert has a "malleable" moral compass and a vested financial interest in an item, then taking their input becomes a slippery slope. collectors can't be sure how much weight to give their opinion.

at a minimum, if you're going to allow consigners to authenticate their own items then don't even bother with the guise of authentication because it's turned into a complete joke. just sell the item "as is" so that at least collectors understand the playing field. don't come out and give them any sort of false pretense about "expert opinions" when these expert opinions may very well be entirely fueled by their own financial interests in the items they own. if you still want to offer their opinions, then for pete's sake at least have the decency to disclose the ownership/conflict of interest in the listing.

re: shill bidding

it constitutes fraud. there is no state where fraud is allowed. it's like asking what the state-to-state laws are regarding robbery as if there's some state that permits it.

rudy.

David
03-31-2008, 11:57 AM
A good and expert auction house will give their final okay to each auction lot, whether or whatever LOA is include or isn't. If a consignor includes an LOA, the auction house will have final choice whether or not the item is included. The LOA is nice, especially if the consignor is the widow of a player or former ball boy for the UCLA basketball team, but the auction house doesn't go by the letter writer's opinion alone. They use an LOA as information or independent opinion, often expert opinion, but not the first and last word on a lot.

An example is with a good auction house and autographed items, where they use the services of an outside authenticator like PSA/DNA or JSA. The auction house is likely charged per lot by PSA/DNA, so the auction house is only going to have the authenticator look at autographs the auction house believes is genuine. Meaning, when you buy, both the auction house and PSA/DNA believes the autograph is genuine.

The top auction houses use top experts in their fields, and collectors use them because of this expertise and that they apply this expertise to the auction lots.