Questions re: Steiner & MLB authentication

[blue227]

I am a noobie to the board as well as to the world of GU memorabilia. I was hoping that the more seasoned BBS users might be able to help share their insight as it relates to my situation.

I recently purchased a Red Sox jacket from Steiner that was described as game used from the playoffs & World Series. When it was delivered, it came with the standard Steiner LOA and matching numbered hologram stickers as well as a numbered MLB sticker. (So far, so good....)

However, I wasn't able to confirm the Steiner ID # since, as I've read in some other posts, the company has been slow to very slow in updating their online hologram verification database.

In searching through old posts on this BBS, i came across the Q&A session with Brandon Steiner in which he talks about the risks of game issued items and how their firm has invisible markings to minimize the chance that game issued items get resold as game used.

If Steiner's method of distinguishing game issued vs. game used is invisible, and if their website database is not current, are collectors supposed to just accept their letter with matching stickers and take a leap of faith that everything is legit?

While Steiner has a good rep, here's why i'm a little worried...

I punched in the MLB ID number into the MLB confirmation webpage and it only states that the jacket was team issued. Is this a normal oversight or data entry error by MLB?

I wouldn't be so nervous about the Steiner leap of faith if the MLB website was able to affirm that the jacket was game used. However, to be a skeptic here, I could see how Steiner would have the financial incentive to say that something is game-used while MLB might only be willing to go as far as to say that it's team issued.

So here are a few questions that i was hoping some BBS users might be able to help answer:

1. Has anyone had any luck with calling Steiner and asking them to add whatever was purchased into their database? I've read positive posts about the helpfulness of Steiner staff and was wondering if this is something they'd do or if such a request is a more tech/systems database type of question that the customer service/order fulfillment people wouldn't be dealing with.

2. Has anyone had any luck in getting MLB.com to revise a description on their online confirmation system to say that the item was GU? I called MLB.com customer service dept. earlier today and found out that their call center operators only deal with order fulfillment problems. I tried to explain to the operator the differences between game used and game issued but don't know if i was successful since the person did not know who the Boston Red Sox were or what a warm-up jacket was used for.

3. Staying on the topic of MLB authentication, who is "Authenticators, Inc."? I've never heard of them other than to find out that they are the company doing the authentication for MLB. This was a surprise to me since the MLB website mentions the League's partnership with Deloitte & Touche (who i have heard of) as the third-party authenticator who "witnesses the removal of all game-used to be issued by MLB as part of this program." Maybe Authenticators, Inc. has replaced D&T, i don't know. Does anyone know?

Also, i'd like to know if whether this third-party witness also applies to the Steiner stuff? The jacket I bought from Steiner has a numbered MLB sticker which i'd interpret as a sign that MLB is willing to let Steiner use their good name to vouch for the authenticity of the merchandise. Does anyone know the relationship between MLB and Steiner (i.e maybe seen a press release that details their relationship)

I realize i've rambled on here but i'm sort of worried since i dropped a meaningful amount of cash on the jacket and would hate to find out that Steiner sold me a game issued jacket as opposed to what they described as a game used.

[bubbrubb25]

I think if mlb doesnt see the jacket come off the players back they list it as game issued. I believe something happened like this with mlb authenticated braves jerseys.

[kj33706]

all i know is durning the mothers day bat auction on the mlb, they had a jonny damon game used bat i had photo matched it and the mlb had it listed at game issued.... it was clear as day not game issued and game used so i don't know what to tell you, just thought i would share that story with ya....

good luck

[David]

There have been a few instances of MLB hologram inconsistencies. For example, just recently a board member said he won a team signed game used bat in a team charity auction and the mlb hologram listed it only as team signed, with no mention of game use.

Also note that Steiner is selling the Yankees equipment for the Yankees. Steiner is the Yankees' agent.

[indyred]

Yep. MLB authenticated always puts team issued now on jerseys that they don't see the player take off. A Bunch of teams stuff now come up as team issued instead of game worn. I know Braves, Twins, Brewers and I'm sure other's as well. Must be a new policy they have in place. So I wouldn't be too worried about the team issue, I'd be more worried if it didn't have the mlb holo on it.

[David]

Between the two, Steiner would probably know more about the Yankees jersey than MLB. Steiner is getting the stuff directly from the Yankees, while MLB is probably going on that they know the Yankees sell their equipment through Steiner and the hologram is documenting that the jersey is from the Yankees per Yankees/Steiner/MLB contract.

[blue227]

Thanks for the responses to my post. I appreciate the input.

To follow up, has anyone ever heard of a case in which the authenticity of Steiner GU equipment ever being called into question by an independent group such as MEARS?

Lastly, is anyone familiar the "Authenticators, Inc." the firm that is now doing the authentication for MLB?

[David]

Everyone makes mistakes from time to time, but Steiner has as good a reputation as anyone. The only common complaint you hear from collectors about Steiner is that their prices are sometimes too high.

[David]

Also, as Steiner is the agent for Yankees and the letterhead says Steiner-Yankees, many likely consider a Steiner LOA the equivalent to a Yankees team LOA, or at least as close as one can get.

If you follow this board, collectors here don't hide their feelings or fail to share their issues/problems/conspiracy theories about authenticators. People regularly point out errors by dealers, authenticators and auction houses. You rarely to never hear authenticity complaints about Steiner. Again, everyone will make a mistake, but this silence is a good sign, as you would hear complaints if there were complaints.

[camarokids]

I bought an obvious game used Aki Iwamura Nike Bat from the Devil Rays FanFest Charity Auction ..... As you can see the bat is game used and is listed as a signed bat !


Hologram number BB520593 was located in the MLB Authentication Database under Bats.

Session Product Description: Signed Bat


Session Name: Tampa Bay Devil Rays Signing
Session Date: August 03, 2007
Autographer: Akinora Iwamura
Authenticator: Authenticators, Inc.

10755


I was told as well, if the authenticator does not witness the item being taken from the player , blah , blah , blah ....

They cannot label it as game used .

HEEEEELLLLLLOOOOO !!!

I am sure the item never left the stadium prior to the auction and receiving its hologram . So why in the hell can they not label it as game used ????

So what they are saying then is they cannot trust the individual teams to sell game used stuff.............

MLB's hologram system sucks and is no better than anyone else's if not worse .....

[David]

MLB's authenticators are accountant-types, rather than memorabilia experts. In fact, MLB uses a major CPA firm to oversee this stuff. The CPAs document and hologram what they see, and not what they don't see. A CPA is no autograph expert, but will hologram that Pujols signed baseball if he sees Pujols sign the baseball. The CPA won't hologram an already signed ball, as he didn't see it signed. This explains they the MLB.com listing is sometimes lacking in details.

A team LOA will, or should, clarify and give full details. I agree that with the above bat, the team should have included a LOA as the MLB.com listing lacks vital info.

[bubbrubb25]

I looked on steiners website and I couldnt find where you enter a hologram number?

[JETEFAN]

Life long story, do your homework, if you look back through past posts Steiner has made many mistakes on items they sell, when you call them they have very little to no information as to who, what when and where of what they sell. They are doing a much better job lately giving time periods worn etc. but earlier it was a mess. Again do your own investigation no matter who is writing up the paper work!!


George

[maccamania]

wellhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/globalAssets/rtCurve.gifsaid jetefan !!! there is a g/u kevin cash jersey on ebay #
150277890513http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/globalAssets/rtCurve.gif....there is no strip tag, only a size tag, but steiner & mlb authenicated......this possibly could be a mistake from steiner, do your homework.......

[kellsox]

wellhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/globalAssets/rtCurve.gifsaid jetefan !!! there is a g/u kevin cash jersey on ebay #
150277890513http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/globalAssets/rtCurve.gif....there is no strip tag, only a size tag, but steiner & mlb authenicated......this possibly could be a mistake from steiner, do your homework.......
Just because it doesn't have a strip tag does not mean that there is something wrong with the jersey. I have seen several Sox jerseys authenticated by MLB with Steiner cert w/o strip tags. it is usually in the case of a newly aquired player or a late season call up. I own an Ellsbury from last year w/o a strip tag and handled a Moss also without the tag. I just aquired a jersey from this year of a veteran Sox player and it also did not have the strip tag- has MLB/Steiner Cert, 0062 wash tag and shows good use.
My belief is that MLB puts their holos on items at the park and Steiner picks them up and puts their holo on it- essentially confirming usage and that it came directly from the team's locker room.
Kelly
kelspeck@gmail.com