educating yourself on buying GU caps/ hats

[DonTheLegend]

there have been an ton of circumstances that have promted me to write this.

i didnt want to hijack the Pete Rose cap thread, but it sort of goes along with that theme.

i had an opportunity to purchase a couple of very nice caps today. one was a former Cardinals first baseman and one of the current cardinals first baseman.

both caps were Sunday alternates , showed use, had numbers under the bill and both had different tagging, which is what i would expect.

however, to me, it seems so easy for a shady dealer or "collector" to doctor up a "team issued" cap.

i wasnt informed enough to make the purchase and i am questioning myself now if i did the right thing by passing them up.

the McGwire was a 7 5/8 i believe and the Pujols was 7 1/4

not that this would be a cure all, but i'd like to have some sort of database to reference to as far as cap sizes or possibly player characteristics. maybe throw in some sort of tagging and wear patterns or something.

it was incredibly difficult to make a decision on whether to purchase or not. it sucks. maybe they were good. maybe not and i did the right thing.

any thoughts or is there something already available??

[AWA85]

I couldn't agree more. I really question how many of these hats mainly on EBAY are the real deal. Seems like each day a few new ones pop up, and couldn't it be as simple as putting a number on the inside bill for some of them?

My first game used item was a Juan Castro cap that was size 7. Hat is pretty darn clean and seems absolutely tiny. Wouldn't even fit on the top of my head (yes I tried because I am really doubting it is the real deal) Don't know if hats are ever washed or shrink but this is the one GU item I have purchased and doubt its actual use. This has soured me a bit when it comes to caps.

[Nathan]

I'm not a hat collector at all, so this is my outsider's opinion and occasional fact.

First, just to clarify for anyone who is just reading this thread and is looking for information, I cannot emphasize this enough. There is no correlation between a player's physical size in height/weight and head size. It is entirely possible for someone who stands 6'5" to have a 6 7/8 hat size, and for someone 5'7" to have a 7 7/8.

Second, in my own experience, different materials, different brands, and all sorts of other factors influence what size hat will actually be worn. I need a 7 3/4 in any sort of wool/acrylic, about a 7 1/2 for anything else. If I let my hair grow out, it goes up to about an 8 in a wool/acrylic, but only about a 7 5/8 in anything else. At 5'11" and not being particularly big, that's a bit crazy.

The other thing to remember is comfort. If a guy has a headache the day of a game, he may be more likely to use a slightly larger hat than normal. Or he may like a looser fit in the summertime to allow for a bit more ventilation versus a tighter one in early spring or in the fall.

A big reason I don't collect hats is because of these inconsistencies. It's literally a case of "unless you take it off his head, you'll have a tough time knowing".

[bubbrubb25]

I'm not a hat collector at all, so this is my outsider's opinion and occasional fact.

First, just to clarify for anyone who is just reading this thread and is looking for information, I cannot emphasize this enough. There is no correlation between a player's physical size in height/weight and head size. It is entirely possible for someone who stands 6'5" to have a 6 7/8 hat size, and for someone 5'7" to have a 7 7/8.

Second, in my own experience, different materials, different brands, and all sorts of other factors influence what size hat will actually be worn. I need a 7 3/4 in any sort of wool/acrylic, about a 7 1/2 for anything else. If I let my hair grow out, it goes up to about an 8 in a wool/acrylic, but only about a 7 5/8 in anything else. At 5'11" and not being particularly big, that's a bit crazy.

The other thing to remember is comfort. If a guy has a headache the day of a game, he may be more likely to use a slightly larger hat than normal. Or he may like a looser fit in the summertime to allow for a bit more ventilation versus a tighter one in early spring or in the fall.

A big reason I don't collect hats is because of these inconsistencies. It's literally a case of "unless you take it off his head, you'll have a tough time knowing".Same way I look at it, the only game used hat I have is one which I got right off the players head.

[suave1477]

Well another way to help not an exact science but will help you get a closer determination if the hat actually belonged to the particular player.

1) Look at the number written under the bill does it match the way that player normally writes his number on his bats?
Like I said not an exact science but it does help writing numbers is like an autograph and usually the player will have the same handwriting when it comes to writing his number on a hat or a bat.
2) Look for characteristics, if the player is a heavy pine tar user then chances are there should be stains on the hat from his hands.
Again not an exact science but these are little tips to help.

but it can also work against you
Example - Posada is a heavy Pine Tar user but he hardly ever wears hats so with his hat you find little to now use on them. yet his helmets are covered from Pine Tar because he constantly touches his helmet when he is at bat.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Just to add what I can to this thread, I do own a Cecil Fielder autographed Yankees hat that was given to my dad by Cecil in the clubhouse right after a game. It is size 7 5/8.

[stlbats]

I am not a hat collector, but from playing a lot of baseball and some research, I do know that the older style wool hats (used prior to the 07 season) will shrink from sweat or if they get rained on, ect. I have some fitted hats that I gotten rained on, and I cant even get them on anymore. Also teams get the exact same hats that they sell at retail. I dont know of any codes or tags that are different.

thanks
jason
stlbats@bellsouth.net

[AWA85]

I was hoping to get a few of the different style Reds caps, but the more and more I read I may just have to put that off.

[bigtruck260]

I was standing next to Don trying to talk him in/out of buying the hats.
The dealer in question (at least for me) is not someone that I trust enough to buy something borderline - especially a hat that was supposedly game used by two superstars.

I thought the numbers looked right. But I am with Don, I am not going to walk out spending $400 and realize that I have two hats that were doctored.

The dealer really makes a difference with hats. I have 4 and they all came directly from the Cardinals. However, if I ever tried to sell/trade them, they are only worth my reputation amongst peers.

Donny - you know why I would have passed partner.

Dave

[2000mvpfan]

...I own three Giambi caps,all with matching sizes & style of "16" written under the brim.1 was an ASI hat (who handled Giambi's GU stuff in Oakland),the other 2 came with A's paperwork from equipment manager Steve Vucinich.
...It's the only way I'd ever touch a game-used cap-they're just to easy to fake and NOTHING seperates a pro use cap from the ones they sell in Lids or at the ballpark-they're the same caps.

[DonTheLegend]

to me, hats are very cool items to own. its part of the uniform and is something that becomes part of the player for a game or games.

i may take it upon myself to start a hat database and see what i can come up with.

again, it wouldnt be a foolproof ID of legit gamers, but it would help to educate those of us who truly dont know or have the means of finding out.

any ideas would very welcome.

[2000mvpfan]

..I'll tell you what,that'd be a great resource.With all the caps I'm sure are owned by people here,you'd have a great starting point.Because in reality,there's nowhere out there to go to find out a player's size (except the really big ones-like Matsui's size 8-that you hear about simply because they're so big).It'd be nice to know Mattingly wore this size,or McGwire or Pujols wore this size.At least you'd have a jumping off point while trying to figure out if you want to make a purchase.

[bigtruck260]

It would also be interesting to see how the circumference of a head changes over the years. Barry Bonds especially - Sosa too.

I wonder if Manny's dreds make a difference...?

Dave

[joelsabi]

what do you think when you see the brim of the hat looking like this?

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/dp99/DCP_0009_1.JPG

[DonTheLegend]

if im not mistaken, i believe that is a Ryan Howard minor league cap.

i remember seeing that on EBay.

i dont know what to think.

its either an attempt at covering up a number or Ryan decided to draw a house.

im not that familiar with his tendencies on caps.

[suave1477]

Hello DontheLegend, I was actually thinking it was supposed to be Home Plate.

[DonTheLegend]

Hello DontheLegend, I was actually thinking it was supposed to be Home Plate.

good call.

to me, it looks like there was a "13" written there.

home plate works too.

either way, i have never seen a Howard cap with something like this.

[joelsabi]

if im not mistaken, i believe that is a Ryan Howard minor league cap.

i remember seeing that on EBay.

i dont know what to think.

its either an attempt at covering up a number or Ryan decided to draw a house.

im not that familiar with his tendencies on caps.

I posted the photo to see if some had the same hunch as me. I was leaning toward covering up a number. Thats what make it tough. I guess you have to match the writing of numbers on the knob of a bat and the number on the hat. anyone have a method to verify numbers on a hat.