Albert Pujols wrong rawlings tag on jersey?

[dodgersfan]

I beleive in 2000 was the last year they wore this tag on Cardinals jerseys?
What do you guys think?

Rudy


http://item.express.ebay.com/Game-used-issued-Cardnials-Albert-Pujols-rookie-jersey_W0QQitemZ260211474229QQihZ016QQtrZexpQQcmdZ ExpressItem

[kingjammy24]

i think the rawlings tag was last used in '99. 2000 saw a new style.
that said, perhaps an old shell (from '99) was used. i don't think a carryover is overly rare.

rudy #2.

[Birdbats]

"Carryovers" are not rare. What would be rare, though, is to have the 2001 flag tag attached to the 1999 label. Not unusual for an "old" jersey blank to be used in a later year, but I've never seen the team go to the trouble of removing the old year flag and attaching a new one. If this shirt had 1999 tagging and an '99 year flag, I'd not be as skeptical. But, a 1999 Rawlings tag with a 2001 year flag? That's something I've never seen.

[kingjammy24]

i concur with birdbats. i sort of missed the "01 flag tag on a '99 manufacturer's tag" thing.

a few more thoughts:
if the jersey was supposed to be from 2000 and had a 2000 flag tag (on a '99 manfacturer's tag), then it'd be possible for it to be a legit anomaly. in manufacturing the 2000 jerseys, rawlings could've simply used up whatever few remaining '99-style manufacturer tags and applied them to 2000 flag tags. with this sort of rawlings set up (manufacturer tag + standard flag tag), it's obviously not the team who affixes/removes the flag tag; it's rawlings. so if you consider what could transpire at the factory, grabbing a previous style of manufacturer's tag is possible to affix to a current year shirt is possible. i've seen jerseys that i felt were examples where rawlings simply affixed a previous years manufacturer's tag. it's not hard to imagine happening during the year of a tag style change. both kim stigall and dave miedema have provided examples of 1990 jerseys showing 1989 style manufacturer tags (with 1990 flag tags).

however, this jersey isn't supposed to be from 2000, it's supposed to be from 2001. that's 2 yrs since the tag style change which is more than i'd be comfortable with. i suppose it's still possible for it to be a factory (not team) error. there was a '99 style manufacturer's tag lying around and it got mixed up in the manufacturing of this 2001 jersey and affixed with a 2001 flag tag. the likelihood of that seems extremely small though and this hobby is based on likelihoods. no reason to go for something that seems very unlikely. (afterall, it's not like there's a shortage of '01 pujols gamers around. it'd make more sense to go with one that has a proper style tag).

if manufacturer tag/flag tag combo is not a legit error and someone doctored it up, then you'd think it'd likely be evident upon a close examination of the tagging. the edges are cut or there's ghost stitching. i guess it was too small to make into a mcgwire and there were no other big money names until pujols showed up in '01.

rudy.

[Birdbats]

After a closer examination, I realize this jersey is even older than 1999. The birds on the bat give it away. In 1998, the Cardinals introduced a new birds-on-bat logo with larger, more-detailed birds and other changes. Prior to 1998, the tails on the birds changed positions -- the left bird's tail, which was in front of the bat, moved to behind the bat. It was vice-versa with the right bird -- his tail went from behind the bat to in front of it. Examples are pictured below, along with the Pujols jersey in question. Clearly, that jersey was made prior to 1998. There is no way the Cardinals would have used a pre-1998 jersey in 2001. They would never do a carryover using a completely different logo design.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w232/birdbats/Birdtailorientation.jpg

[dodgersfan]

Awesome info!


Rudy

[kingjammy24]

well there you have it. great job jeff scott. me=asleep at the wheel.
a pre-98 jersey with a 2001 flag tag. cute. anyway, here's a pic of pujols in 2001 confirming jeff's info. note the placement of the tails respective to the bat.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2151/sillycp5.jpg

rudy.

[dodgersfan]

Rudy,Your Awesome as always!
You probably get sick of hearing it anyways.


Rudy#2

[cjw]

I enjoy these insightfull jersey posts the most. They help take worry out of some of my purchases on Ebay etc.

Thanks Rudy(s) and birdbats!

BTW, with a handle like "birdbats" it only makes sense that you would catch the bard and bat tail ratio issue,

chris

[both-teams-played-hard]

A primer for the different Cardinals "bird" logos from year to year would be cool. Just saying.

[bigtruck260]

I seem to remember a Hall of Fame site somewhere that was called
"Dressed to the Nine's" or something along those lines...

It shows uniforms as they change. I agree it would be a good idea considering the amount of Cards guys in this forum.

Dave

[Birdbats]

A primer for the different Cardinals "bird" logos from year to year would be cool. Just saying.

That's a good idea. Maybe I should write a book...

I seem to remember a Hall of Fame site somewhere that was called
"Dressed to the Nine's" or something along those lines...

There is such a site, but it's not quite detailed enough. For example, there's no way to tell the birds' beaks are red in 1998. Here's a link to the database:
http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.org/dressed_to_the_nines/database.htm

[Birdbats]

The Cardinals Hall of Fame Museum staff has given great presentations the past three years at the Winter Warm Up about team uniforms and logos. If you attend the Warm Up and have never seen these presentations, I highly recommend you do it next year. I also encourage anyone who gets to St. Louis to visit the HOF/Museum. They have actual GU jerseys on display that represent just about every style throughout the team's history. Definitely worth the admission price... one of the best collections you'll see outside of Cooperstown.

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/stl/history/stl_history_halloffame.jsp

[kingjammy24]

jeff scott, would this be another pre-1998 "2001" pujols?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260215217732

ignore the oddly stitched tag and focus on the fact that it came from the cardinals "orginazition".

rudy.

[Birdbats]

Rudy, it's not another jersey. It's the same pre-1998 jersey with new tagging. Amazing.

[bigtruck260]

Guess this means that the crooks have their ear to the forum, eh?

Dave