Why are we ignoring steroids in football?

[cjclong]

I have been interested in the fact that most of the emphasis on steroids in sports has centered on baseball with very little said about football. I think it is naive to think baseball is the sport where steroid use is most common. The kind of size and strength you get from steroid use combined with weight lifting is more beneficial to football than baseball. It wasn't that long ago that a 300 pound lineman was very rare. Today teams have entire lines made up of 300 pounders. There have been several current and former players including Dana Stubblefield that were found to be using, but we hear little about them. I wonder if anyone has an explanation for this? I have a theory that we honor individual records in baseball more than football and so if someone with a record like Bonds or McGuire gets accused we pay more attention. But that's just one idea. Anyone have any others?

[whatupyos]

GREAT THREAD!!! I have been wondering the same myself. Everyone is sooooo quick to put blame on baseball but Football has just as many roiders in my humble opinion!! I mean come on...look at some of the lean mean linemen!!! I hate to call out names but there are some who are shreaded and on the line and I'm thinking wow...the media and people in general are soooo quick to judge baseball, purity of the game blah blah blah, but look at football!!! Honestly I can care less as I've said with baseball but lets be fair here. Didn't the who steroid in spors come about when Lyle Alzado spoke out against it. And that was what sport agian??? Oh yeah, FOOTBALL!!! So lets not knock baseball when football is equally to blame. Talk about the ultimate roid rage sport!! haha. All sports need to take accountability and have nothing but the best testing. I know they test but the athletes are always one step ahead! We got to beat them!

[godwulf]

I have a theory that we honor individual records in baseball more than football and so if someone with a record like Bonds or McGuire gets accused we pay more attention.

I agree - that's probably a big part of the explanation. Not being a football watcher or fan, I could probably only come up with a couple of names of football-related records, and couldn't explain what they mean, what any of the actual records are, or who holds them, if my life depended on it.

Baseball has always been far more a sport obssessed with numbers and comparisons than any other, and anybody who ever did so much as play sandlot ball as a kid has at least a fair grasp of what the various Baseball records mean.

Another part of it, I think, is that Baseball - to a far greater extent than any other popular American team sport - evokes a closer connection with the average fan (and even non-fan) because it's a game that we watch and tend to think, "I could do that." Most Baseball players are not 7 feet tall, and if they weigh 300 pounds, they're probably gonna carry it about as well as somebody like David Wells or Fernando Valenzuela - they're not gonna look like an athlete, in other words. I think the average person loves Baseball, on some level, because it contains within itself the illusion that we could get out on the field and do it, too, if only we were given the opportunity.

[mwbosoxfan]

I have thought the same thing and have heard your theory, based on sacred individual records, discussed as to why baseball seems to get hammered. I think it also has to do with the fact that the NFL has "appeared" to have a proper drug testing program in place. While the NFL was out in front of the curve, I would assume that the use of PED's runs rampant throughout the league based on what we now know about the actual detection of the newer PED's including HGH and insulin.

There is no question that there is a double standard of how the use of PED's is viewed between baseball and football. One example that comes to mind was when Shawne Merriman failed a drug test for steroids and was suspended last year. He served a four game suspension and little or no mention was made that he was a former Rookie of the Year and Pro Bowler. No talk of taking away those awards. I also remember that it was discussed in the media that it would hurt his chances for MVP and how great his season was dispite missing four games. What??? I just remember thinking how much Bonds was getting killed in the headlines, and when it happened in football, it was just a back page blip.

I hope someday, hopefully in the near future, that baseball can get passed all of this negative attention dealing with PED's. This Clemens and McNamee situation is about wear me out.

[Nathan]

The NFL, unlike MLB, has shown that they are willing and able to deal with those who are found to use illegal substances quickly and without prejudice. They started leaguewide testing over 20 years ago and continued to find out how they were being evaded and have refined testing accordingly. This is in stark contrast to MLB's assorted leaders and public faces being dragged kicking and screaming in front of Congress.

Size and strength in football is not the least bit uncommon for a very good reason. Sometime around 30 years ago, the notion of "don't lift weights since it'll make you immobile" stopped being accepted around the game. Most players in the NFL today have been conditioning extensively from about age 14 on and usually focusing on little else but playing football, practicing football, and conditioning for football. Combine heavy lifting with copious amounts of (natural) testosterone and it's not the least bit uncommon to see man-children in high school.

[kellsox]

The NFL, unlike MLB, has shown that they are willing and able to deal with those who are found to use illegal substances quickly and without prejudice. They started leaguewide testing over 20 years ago and continued to find out how they were being evaded and have refined testing accordingly. This is in stark contrast to MLB's assorted leaders and public faces being dragged kicking and screaming in front of Congress.

Size and strength in football is not the least bit uncommon for a very good reason. Sometime around 30 years ago, the notion of "don't lift weights since it'll make you immobile" stopped being accepted around the game. Most players in the NFL today have been conditioning extensively from about age 14 on and usually focusing on little else but playing football, practicing football, and conditioning for football. Combine heavy lifting with copious amounts of (natural) testosterone and it's not the least bit uncommon to see man-children in high school.

I'm sick of hearing all the time how the NFL has a great testing program and how they are on top of everything. Unless they test for HGH(which I suspect a ton of players are using) their program is as toothless as MLB. Rodney Harrison was suspended for using HGH not because the testing caught him but because he was dumb enough to have the stuff paid with his own CC and sent to his own house. If not for being an idiot, he would have never been caught. There was also no way of knowing if he continued to use during or after his suspension. This is the case with a great number of athletes that are caught. Only the careless ones seem to be outed, imagine all the others that are getting away with it.
The players/chemists are miles ahead of where the testing currently is. If you think the NFL is clean you're kidding yourself

[cjclong]

There is no question that weight lifting is much more common today than in the past, both in football and baseball. And I know athletes can make great gains in size and strength that have nothing to do with drugs. And to suspect someone just because they made gains is unfair. But to concentrate all our attention in the media and congress with whether steroids were used in baseball and almost ignore other sports except for track and field events doesn't seem right. There is simply no question that football has a greater reliance on pure size and strength than most other sports. Its a much greater aid to a lineman to carry 300 pounds in weight and bench press 500 pounds than it is for any baseball player. If baseball players are tempted to cheat don't you think the temptation is even greater in football? And there is no question that steroids can aid in this process size/strength process. Anyway, isn't all this attention supposed to be primarily to try to keep young athletes from using these drugs. A high school or college football player has more incentive to use steroids than most baseball players.

[Nathan]

I'm sick of hearing all the time how the NFL has a great testing program and how they are on top of everything. Unless they test for HGH(which I suspect a ton of players are using) their program is as toothless as MLB.

The NFL has shown that they are willing to continue to refine their testing procedures in order to combat use of performance enhancing substances. MLB has not. There are problems with testing hormone levels, which is what cycling does.


The players/chemists are miles ahead of where the testing currently is. If you think the NFL is clean you're kidding yourself

I'm not saying it's clean. I'm saying the NFL has shown a much greater willingness than MLB to address what they recognize to be problematic.


There is no question that weight lifting is much more common today than in the past, both in football and baseball. And I know athletes can make great gains in size and strength that have nothing to do with drugs. And to suspect someone just because they made gains is unfair.

Absolutely.


But to concentrate all our attention in the media and congress with whether steroids were used in baseball and almost ignore other sports except for track and field events doesn't seem right.

Baseball ended up in hot water because of their stubbornness in addressing a problem that was as plain on the nose on my face (and being half Italian, that's saying something). Commissioners of the NFL, NBA, and NHL all ended up before Congress. Nothing more came of it because they agreed that more could always ben done and demonstrated the usefulness of their own programs.


There is simply no question that football has a greater reliance on pure size and strength than most other sports. Its a much greater aid to a lineman to carry 300 pounds in weight and bench press 500 pounds than it is for any baseball player.

Now you're getting into issues of type I, type IIa, and type IIb muscle tissue.


If baseball players are tempted to cheat don't you think the temptation is even greater in football? And there is no question that steroids can aid in this process size/strength process. Anyway, isn't all this attention supposed to be primarily to try to keep young athletes from using these drugs. A high school or college football player has more incentive to use steroids than most baseball players.

The temptation is enormous in both. Football has a huge reliance on size and strength, but baseball has gotten away from the old-time game into one more built on crushing home runs. Greg Maddux and Jamie Moyer would never make it out of an adult fantasy camp because too many scouts rely on high velocity fastballs. The temptation is nearly overwhelming in either sport.

[cjclong]

We can talk about muscle fibers all day, but lets be honest. If you are playing the line in professional football its a big asset to weight in at 300 pounds. There is nothing comparable to that in baseball. Sheer size can be an asset in football. Bulk is no asset in baseball. You have guys like Ken Griffey, jr who never lift weights in baseball. I would be willing to bet the same cannot be said for linemen in the NFL. There is no question that sheer size and strength is a greater asset in football than baseball and that can be acquired more easily by performance enhancing drugs. If the testing program is so great why didn't they catch Dana Stubblefield while he was playing. Is he the exception or the tip of the iceburg?

[byergo]

Shawn Merriman got his didn't he?

[Nathan]

We can talk about muscle fibers all day, but lets be honest. If you are playing the line in professional football its a big asset to weight in at 300 pounds. There is nothing comparable to that in baseball. Sheer size can be an asset in football. Bulk is no asset in baseball. You have guys like Ken Griffey, jr who never lift weights in baseball. I would be willing to bet the same cannot be said for linemen in the NFL. There is no question that sheer size and strength is a greater asset in football than baseball and that can be acquired more easily by performance enhancing drugs. If the testing program is so great why didn't they catch Dana Stubblefield while he was playing. Is he the exception or the tip of the iceburg?

You're talking to a line coach right here, so I'd consider myself fairly familiar with what's vital and what's not.

I'm not going to dispute the idea of mass and lots of it being vital to the NFL as it pertains to the line. But I wouldn't say that the proliferation of 300-pounders on the line is a sign of something sinister going on. I mentioned earlier about the lifestyle that most NFL players had from age 14 on as it pertains to their body. Throw in the fact that training camp, which is when most players from prior generations shed a lot of weight, has been scaled back in the last 10 years. Make no mistake, guys as late as around 1990 were rolling into camp at 320 and leaving at 280, which they would then attempt to maintain over the course of the season. Now 320 might become 310, or (more common) 350 might become 330.

However, keeping weight on during football season is normally done one way, and that's by consuming lethal amounts of calories. Linebackers might go through 10,000 per day, and I know personally of one lineman who averages 15,000 per day from the first day of training camp all the way through the end of the season (and he insists that he's the lightest eater on the line). Look at Nebraska's training program from their heyday. They were bringing in 230-260 pound recruits, and after four years in the weight room and at the training table, they were leaving as 300-pounders with freakish agility and quickness.

Is there steroid use in the NFL? Yes. Is there synthetic growth hormone use in the NFL? Yes. Is it extremely commonplace? I'd disagree; I'd peg 5-10% as the upper ceiling.

[cjclong]

Nathan, I'm sure you know more about line play in football than I ever will. But I know without question football players are much bigger than they used to be. I was manager of a football team in the old Southwest conference in 1965 and 1966. The biggest player on the team weighed 265 and the next biggest 245. I know that there are weight lifting and nutrition programs that are much better than those of 30 years ago. And I know players can make great gains without drugs. I have already stressed that because I don't want to appear to be saying everyone who makes gains in size is on drugs. That is totally unfair. But at the same time to think that pro football has gone from virtually none of the linemen weighting 300 pounds to nearly all of them in that area and there is no drug use by anybody at all seems very naive. And yet, if a baseball player makes similar gains to those a football player would make they are suspected of using drugs while the football player is not. And that is unfair. Sheer size and weight lifting strength simply are not as important in baseball as football. As far as we know Mickey Mantle never lifted a weight and yet he hit what may be the longest measured home run at 565 feet. Ken Griffey Jr does virtually no weight lifting and yet he likely will have the most career home runs of any current player this year. You say a pitcher like Maddox wouldn't be looked at today, but the Texas Rangers number one draft choice year before last was Kasey Kiker who stands 5-10 and weights 170. I'm sure other teams had players like him. Being able to throw for distance or velocity is something that has little to do with weight lifting strength. There are lots of quarterbacks who can throw much farther and faster than huge linemen and the same is true with baseball players. The simple fact is that size and strength that can be gained through weight lifting is a much greater asset in football than baseball. Not that it isn't some asset in baseball, but its a much greater in football. And unfortunately drugs can aid in that quest for size and strength. You will not be able to name a single interior offensive lineman that weights less than 230 pounds in professional football. You will not be able to name a single baseball player in the American or National league that weighs 300 pounds. When some obscure middle infielder or third rank relief pitcher tests positive for drugs its all over the papers. When a pro football player gets busted the press pretty much ignores it.