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View Full Version : Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick



kingjammy24
02-07-2008, 11:42 PM
idiot.

http://www.tmz.com/2008/02/07/pedro-and-the-cockfight-the-horrifying-video/

rudy.

joelsabi
02-08-2008, 12:07 AM
in the dominican , cock fighting is legal while in the united states , dog fighting is illegal. thats a huge difference.

both-teams-played-hard
02-08-2008, 12:20 AM
in the dominican , cock fighting is legal while in the united states , dog fighting is illegal. thats a huge difference.

Rooster fighting and dog fighting are organized and carried out by socio-paths and psycho-paths. It makes no difference if its legal or not. Pedro, as well as Vick, are missing the empathy chip that most decent folks have. Prostitution is legal in Nevada. However, if you get the AIDS...then, you still got the AIDS. The judge and jury don't have a cure.

joelsabi
02-08-2008, 10:58 AM
Rooster fighting and dog fighting are organized and carried out by socio-paths and psycho-paths. It makes no difference if its legal or not. Pedro, as well as Vick, are missing the empathy chip that most decent folks have. Prostitution is legal in Nevada. However, if you get the AIDS...then, you still got the AIDS. The judge and jury don't have a cure.

I dont think you want to categorize the dominican culture as a culture full of sociopaths and pscho-paths. We need to respect culture differences. i dont see why Mr Martinez is being judged for doing what in his culture is accepted.

otismalibu
02-08-2008, 11:09 AM
I just saw a commercial on TV that said chicken nuggets were $0.25 at McDonalds. They ain't exactly man's best friend.

bigtruck260
02-08-2008, 11:31 AM
Some of you might know that I also run a boxing website locally in St. Louis, MO - I despise Roy Jones Jr. for many reasons - but this article really makes me sick. I agree that we should not judge the cultures of other countries...but inhumane is inhumane.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2007/12/30/2007-12-30_roy_jones_i_let_my_dogs_fight-3.html

He plays for an American team/league and I guess that means he should keep himself away from things that will make his team/league look bad in the eyes of Americans...especially since the Vick stuff happened.

Then again, Pedro has never held himself to the general consensus of polite behavior.

In DR, this stuff happens. Since it happened over there - and it is legal over there...let him be.

My two bits.

rose14
02-08-2008, 11:54 AM
In my opinion people that take part in dog fighting, cock figting or any other form of fighting involving innocent parties are total cowards. Those people don't have the balls to get in a ring themselves so they have to be tough and let animals do their fighting for them. Mike Vick, Pedro Martinez and everyone associated with that animal fighting are just pure scum. I don't care if it is legal in other countries you have to be messed up in the head to get enjoyment out of something like that.

The only way I would like to see Vick play football again is if he is held accountable for his play on the field just like he did with dogfighting. If he does not perform well after each game his is taken and held under water, electrocuted and whatever other torture comes to mind. The first time his team loses he pays for it with his life just like he did with those dogs.

WadeInBmore
02-08-2008, 11:58 AM
Dave,

Thanks for the article about Roy "I've been hit in the head one too many times and am know incredibly stupid" Jones Jr. Why on earth would you out yourself especially given todays circumstances AND with the government becoming this overbearing force that has taken aim at professional sports. Idiot.

I, too, agree about respecting other cultures and their traditions....and while Pedro does represent a MLB club, he is a role model whether he likes it or not and that his behavior will be seen and viewed as an American and put into whatever context, cultural or not, as the viewing public chooses. Will his next contract be the first to have a "no cock fighting clause"?! ...in the near future no cheating, drinking, and doping clauses...well no cheating and drinking:)

wade

kingjammy24
02-08-2008, 01:32 PM
1. "hey it's legal so it's ok"

in the 1600s it was legal to own a slave. cockfighting was legal in louisiana until 2007. i guess all the people who felt it was ethical in 2005 did a 180 in 2007 and suddenly felt it wasn't ethical huh? or was it always unethical and louisiana was just late to the party in realizing the obvious? the issue isn't of legality. it's about acting like a decent, civilized human being with a modicum of ethics.

2. "it's part of their culture!"

stoning a person to death for adultery currently enjoys a role in some cultures. anti-semitism was an accepted part of germany's culture in the early 40s. at one point, racism was a commonly accepted and embraced part of american culture.

defending morally reprehensible behavior on the grounds of legality and culture didn't fly in the nuremburg trials either.

as for the nuggets, there's likely a difference between killing an animal to eat it and watching its slow, torturous death simply for some chuckles.

rudy.

suave1477
02-08-2008, 01:33 PM
Respecting other cultures is one thing!!!

but being inhumane whether it is here in the U.S. or in Dominican republic is still inhumane it is universal no matter where you go.

Just because it is a loowed doesnt make it right.

Just because Pedro feels he can do it in Dominican Republic and can't do it here doesnt mean when he steps off his flight to come into the U.S. his morals change, he still feels its ok to let them fight, he just knows he cant do it here in the U.S.
But its still ok with him and no matter what country your in it still doesnt sit well with me to abuse animals.

joelsabi
02-08-2008, 01:46 PM
In my opinion people that take part in dog fighting, cock figting or any other form of fighting involving innocent parties are total cowards.

FYI George Washington and Thomas Jefferson participated in cockfighting.

both-teams-played-hard
02-08-2008, 01:50 PM
I dont think you want to categorize the dominican culture as a culture full of sociopaths and pscho-paths. We need to respect culture differences. i dont see why Mr Martinez is being judged for doing what in his culture is accepted.

Are you saying every person in the Dominican Republic fights chickens? It is inhumane, regardless of some so-called culture. I don't need to respect any culture that is cruel to animals. I said people who breed and raise animals for the purpose of watching them fight to their death are sociopaths and psychopaths. If the whole country fights roosters, then the whole country is indeed, psychopaths. On Christmas morning...does a Dominican family awake to fight their birds? Do they give gifts of sharp new blades to attatch to their roosters' legs? Then, watch the rooster blood fly? If that's culture...I don't want any of it.

joelsabi
02-08-2008, 01:57 PM
Are you saying every person in the Dominican Republic fights chickens? It is inhumane, regardless of some so-called culture. I don't need to respect any culture that is cruel to animals. I said people who breed and raise animals for the purpose of watching them fight to their death are sociopaths and psychopaths. If the whole country fights roosters, then the whole country is indeed, psychopaths. On Christmas morning...does a Dominican family awake to fight their birds? Do they give gifts of sharp new blades to attatch to their roosters' legs? Then, watch the rooster blood fly? If that's culture...I don't want any of it.

i said culture not every person.

both-teams-played-hard
02-08-2008, 02:05 PM
FYI George Washington and Thomas Jefferson participated in cockfighting.

Dude
What is your obession with giving cockfighters the benefit of the doubt? The Dominican Republic is a third world country. They're still learning. Giv'em a few years to catch up with the rest of the civilized world. Washington and Jefferson never learned the difference between right and wrong, then they died and their bodies turned to dust. I don't know much about the laws of the Dominican Republic....but, slavery is illegal there, right?

suave1477
02-08-2008, 02:06 PM
Are you saying every person in the Dominican Republic fights chickens? It is inhumane, regardless of some so-called culture. I don't need to respect any culture that is cruel to animals. I said people who breed and raise animals for the purpose of watching them fight to their death are sociopaths and psychopaths. If the whole country fights roosters, then the whole country is indeed, psychopaths. On Christmas morning...does a Dominican family awake to fight their birds? Do they give gifts of sharp new blades to attatch to their roosters' legs? Then, watch the rooster blood fly? If that's culture...I don't want any of it.

Both teams I read this this and was hysterical laughing your too much man lol lol:D

rose14
02-08-2008, 02:16 PM
I don't care who does it or has done it in the past. They are all cowards in my book. Anyone that takes joy in particpating or watching whether a past president or not is scum in my book. Those people have no respect for any living creature.

camarokids
02-08-2008, 02:49 PM
Hey Pedro , at least the Roman Emperors and Gladiators would be proud of you and your Dominican Culture....

but this is the 21st Century.....

I for one do not see the where the joy comes from in watching an animal or person fighting to the death .....

kingjammy24
02-08-2008, 02:53 PM
FYI George Washington and Thomas Jefferson participated in cockfighting.

thomas jefferson also owned 187 slaves and believed in segregation. at the same time, he was also a hypocrite who fathered out-of-wedlock bi-racial children with a concubine. washington owned 317 slaves. if your point is that both men had severely flawed sides, then i agree. apparently, their enjoyment of cockfighting was one of their flaws.

during the time of slavery in the US, it was not only legal but also acceptable. during that time, there were also those who, despite the laws and culture at the time, clearly had the common sense and moral compass to know it wasn't right. today, any thinking person looks back and knows it wasn't right or acceptable.

at some point in the future, i imagine the DR will follow a similar path and look back this disgusting part of its cultural history with regret and embarassment. washington went from having no moral reservations about slavery to eventually realizing it was wrong. everyone wakes up at different times.

rudy.

sylbry
02-08-2008, 03:39 PM
Apparently there is a tv show hosted by former Twin Kent Hrbek who *gasp* hooks fish with sharp wires and kills birds and animals. :eek:

Pedro appearing at a chickenfight is about as newsworthy as Britney Spears going to the hospital. Chickenfighting is legal and generally accepted in the the DR. They don't care if you like it or not. It isn't your business. Things like abortions are legal in this country. Which is worse. Letting two chickens duke it out or shoving a sharp object through the head of an unborn baby. I don't like abortions but I won't sit here and judge someone who got one. I won't call them a coward.

I am not saying you don't have the right to be disappointed with Pedro supporting that activity. But judging him is premature without first understanding the role the activity plays in the culture. I know we as Americans certainly don't appreciate the radical Muslims judging us for what is accepted in our culture.

As far as people doing things in the past that were legal which are illegal now, yep it happens and it is based on changing opinions over time. I am fully convinced that in 100 years from now people will look back on us with disgust for driving gas guzzling heavy vehicles with big v8 engines that "destroyed" the environment.

XPFO
02-08-2008, 04:10 PM
Not only is cock-fighting a part of the culture in the Dominican but it is widely accepted through most parts of Central and south America as well as Mexico. Several years back, I attended a cock fight while on an excursion in Mexico. We went and explored the more traditional side of Mexican culture including the cock-fights and luchador fights. they have stadiums built to hold upwards of a thousand people just to see the cock-fighting event. I am not saying I condone it, but every culture has things that are frowned upon in other societys. China and Korea, eating dogs is common place, here it is seen as disgusting. We have abortion, other religions and culture think that is murder.

I don't think it is right for us to judge another societies beliefs. It might not be politically correct where you come from, but to some societies it is common place.

And FYI, if you ever want to speak of inhumane torture of chickens...on a recent business call to a plant that processes chickens for chicken wieners, I was far more disgusted with the way Chickens were treated and "disposed" of then I was attending the cock-fights, but this is accepted in our culture...why is that?? Because they are being processed for food? Tell that to the chicken.

both-teams-played-hard
02-08-2008, 04:22 PM
Apparently there is a tv show hosted by former Twin Kent Hrbek who *gasp* hooks fish with sharp wires and kills birds and animals. :eek:

Pedro appearing at a chickenfight is about as newsworthy as Britney Spears going to the hospital. Chickenfighting is legal and generally accepted in the the DR. They don't care if you like it or not. It isn't your business. Things like abortions are legal in this country. Which is worse. Letting two chickens duke it out or shoving a sharp object through the head of an unborn baby. I don't like abortions but I won't sit here and judge someone who got one. I won't call them a coward.

I am not saying you don't have the right to be disappointed with Pedro supporting that activity. But judging him is premature without first understanding the role the activity plays in the culture. I know we as Americans certainly don't appreciate the radical Muslims judging us for what is accepted in our culture.

As far as people doing things in the past that were legal which are illegal now, yep it happens and it is based on changing opinions over time. I am fully convinced that in 100 years from now people will look back on us with disgust for driving gas guzzling heavy vehicles with big v8 engines that "destroyed" the environment.
These are all good points. They make for an interesting debate. These are all opinions, so everyone is right. I think the animal lovers of this forum (myself included) just spoke with their hearts. I was given a shotgun on my 12th birthday. I went with my dad and grandfather, and shot a squirrel. I've gone duck hunting and dove hunting. But I grew up and realized I had more sense. I didn't keep hunting cause it was part of my culture. I picked up a fishing rod before I picked up a football or baseball bat. I still think fishing is cool. But what angler tortures fish? My family practices the "catch and release" concept of fishing. The information given about Washington and Jefferson is not opinion....it is fact.

joelsabi
02-08-2008, 05:03 PM
Dude
What is your obession with giving cockfighters the benefit of the doubt? The Dominican Republic is a third world country. They're still learning. Giv'em a few years to catch up with the rest of the civilized world. Washington and Jefferson never learned the difference between right and wrong, then they died and their bodies turned to dust. I don't know much about the laws of the Dominican Republic....but, slavery is illegal there, right?

i am not obsessed. i just dont think it is newsworthy. its also not like culture is morally progressive. maybe the dominicans will illegalize boiling live lobster before we do.

zonker
02-08-2008, 08:44 PM
just my 2 cent's i agree it's not newsworthy. i wonder if the forum member's who are so offended by the culture of the dominican republic and the thought of legalized chicken fighting, realize chicken fighting is legal in oklahoma. which is part of the great o'l usa and it's culture! i know oklahoma isn't the culture meca of the universe or anything! ,but i just don't think people should be casting stones. when as far as i can see are just as guilty. look at all the negative thing's stated out of "ignorance" about another culture, by member's of our own. "makes me proud" do you really think our culture is so much better, that it gives us the right to judge another? personally i would rather pay to see a heavy weight fight or an ultimate fighting match where i can watch men or women go at it legally. hey maybe someone will die! oh how civilized we are?

both-teams-played-hard
02-08-2008, 09:40 PM
I re-read some of my earlier posts and realized I may have come across as an elitest. I DO NOT think American Culture is superior to that of other nations. I'm simply against cruelty to animals. I also think chicken fighters in Oklahoma are sociopaths and psychopaths. This is my opinion. This is a great topic for debate (although off topic for this forum). Is there a difference in stomping chickens to death at a KFC processing plant (behind closed doors); or betting on which rooster kills another (out in the open)?
No hard feelings to those with different opinions!

metsbats
02-08-2008, 10:04 PM
Gentlemen,

Let's put things in perpective.

We live in a country where it's legal for women to have abortions.

OJ Simpson is aquitted of murdering two people but Michael Vick is convicted of killing dogs.

And we are frowning upon chickens fighting?

David

joelsabi
02-08-2008, 10:21 PM
[quote=both-teams-played-hard;71369] My family practices the "catch and release" concept of fishing. quote]

Studies show that fish who are caught and then returned to the water suffer such severe physiological stress that they often die of shock. Fish often swallow hooks, and anglers try to retrieve the hook by shoving their fingers or pliers down the fish's throat, ripping out not just the hook but some of the fish's throat and guts as well. When fish are handled, the protective coating on their bodies is disturbed. These and other injuries make fish easy targets for predators once they are returned to the water

frikativ54
02-08-2008, 10:30 PM
These are all good points. They make for an interesting debate. These are all opinions, so everyone is right. I think the animal lovers of this forum (myself included) just spoke with their hearts. I was given a shotgun on my 12th birthday. I went with my dad and grandfather, and shot a squirrel. I've gone duck hunting and dove hunting. But I grew up and realized I had more sense. I didn't keep hunting cause it was part of my culture. I picked up a fishing rod before I picked up a football or baseball bat. I still think fishing is cool. But what angler tortures fish? My family practices the "catch and release" concept of fishing. The information given about Washington and Jefferson is not opinion....it is fact.

Glad you became more wise with age. You shot a squirrel? :mad: :( I have 20,000+ squirrel photos on my kodakgallery website, because I love them that much. In my world, dead squirrels upset me just as much as dead humans. Though, I'm glad you grew out of it with age.

My personal opinion on the matter is that animal cruelty is bad, but we've got to clean up our own country first. Unless the woman is pregnant because of rape or incest, or the woman is in long-term danger, then I think that abortion should be illegal here.

We also should clean up our treatment of downed cows and animals in general in the U.S. We keep them in cages and raise them just to kill them. I'm not suggesting that we all turn vegetarian; I just wish we treated our animals more humanely.

What Pedro Martinez did was wrong, and he should be reprimanded for that. I hope that U.S. animal rights groups get all over this one and exert their influence. But I think that we have a lot more to worry about here than cock-fighting in the Dominican Republic.

That doesn't mean we should do nothing; it just means that it's easy to point fingers at others, without examining the human rights tragedies here in the U.S. But more power to us if animal rights groups can educate the DR on right and wrong.

thome25.com
02-08-2008, 10:58 PM
How can anybody be so barbaric? By the way, did anybody see that great middle weight fight the other night? The 2 guys beat the crap out of one another.. Great fight.

bscott
02-09-2008, 12:29 AM
hmmm...

First: how does one's particular stance on abortion have anything to do with Game Used Sports Memorabilia?

Second: TO BE CLEAR: COCKFIGHTING IS CURRENTLY LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES. RIGHT NOW. (It is only legal in the State of Louisiana, and a ban on cockfighting will take place there on August 15, 2008.)

http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/aug07/070815n.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockfight



Just saying.


-bscott.

frikativ54
02-09-2008, 02:06 AM
hmmm...

First: how does one's particular stance on abortion have anything to do with Game Used Sports Memorabilia?

It isn't directly pertinent. However, the point being made was that we are judging other cultures' practices, when we aren't the archetype of a moral nation ourselves. And many of us who are pro-life are saying that we should look at our own country's faults before we castigate Pedro for the actions of Latin American cultures who have gotten it right about abortion.

Hope this clarifies things.

otismalibu
02-09-2008, 09:12 AM
If anyone has a pair of LEATHER Dr. J gamers and would like to cleanse their soul, drop me a line. :)

earlywynnfan
02-09-2008, 08:39 PM
i am not obsessed. i just dont think it is newsworthy. its also not like culture is morally progressive. maybe the dominicans will illegalize boiling live lobster before we do.


Speaking of which, you all do know the closest biological relative to the lobster, right? It's near identical twin brother?

Anyone??

Yep, the cockroach!


Who's up for a trip to Red Lobster with me?!?

Ken

joelsabi
02-09-2008, 08:52 PM
Speaking of which, you all do know the closest biological relative to the lobster, right? It's near identical twin brother?

Anyone??

Yep, the cockroach!


Who's up for a trip to Red Lobster with me?!?

Ken

Thanks Ken. Thats a good one to use for a beer bet. :D

metsbats
02-09-2008, 10:31 PM
I just realized something. Michael Vick killed the dogs but Pedro and Juan Marichal just watched chickens killing each other? I don't see the comparision.

While we are on the topic of animals in sports, perhaps we should consider Bull fighting. Torturing the bull into a heat rage before thrusting a well paced sword killing the bull is considerd sport in Spain.

Nathan
02-10-2008, 12:28 AM
Chickens = food
Dogs = pets not used for food in roughly 80% of the world
Chickens that are pets = still food

I had a nice discussion a few years ago with a Spaniard and the topic of bullfighting came up. His question, which is a legitimate one, is "The bull will be turned into food regardless. Is it more glorious for the bull to be the idol of the crowds, or to squander his life eating grass in an enclosed field?"

both-teams-played-hard
02-10-2008, 03:23 AM
Chickens = food
Dogs = pets not used for food in roughly 80% of the world
Chickens that are pets = still food

I had a nice discussion a few years ago with a Spaniard and the topic of bullfighting came up. His question, which is a legitimate one, is "The bull will be turned into food regardless. Is it more glorious for the bull to be the idol of the crowds, or to squander his life eating grass in an enclosed field?"

I think the Bull's life is squandered by killing him slowly in front of a bunch of drunkened sociopaths. The Bull is the idol of the crowd, only if he kills the matador. People all over the world crave blood and trainwrecks.

kingjammy24
02-10-2008, 05:25 AM
"Is it more glorious for the bull to be the idol of the crowds, or to squander his life eating grass in an enclosed field?"

in a thread filled with more illogical and unsubstantiated comments than a george bush speech, i think this last quote marks a perfect place for it to either come to an end. one of the most unintelligent comments i've heard in years, it's genuinely hard to imagine that it didn't entirely come out of several pitchers worth of sangria. i picture the same spaniard asking whether dogs are more racist than cats or whether seagulls are bigger cheapskates than pelicans.

as if bulls have a concept of "glory" and it entails being stabbed in a stadium. as if the idea of being idolized is running through their mind. as if bulls roaming enclosed fields are thinking "geezus i'm really squandering my life here. i need to get some priorities". nathan, we're all going to die one day. rather than squandering your life in some office all day long, why not go and get beaten to a pulp in a final blaze of glory?

here's what glorious: being enough of a sentient human being to realize that forcing an animal, whether it's a pet or food source or neither, to endure huge amounts of unnecessary pain and suffering is not something to be defended.

anyway, like a bull with numerous swords stuck in me, put me out of my misery and end this thread. it's gone way off topic, thanks in no small part to the bizarre and non-sequitur introduction of everything from OJ to abortion.

thanks in advance for your sympathy. i promise to never again bring up anything other than game-used items.

rudy.