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View Full Version : Are the Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys in Vintage..



CollectGU
02-09-2006, 09:08 AM
the ones that the banned member Apujols04 was talking about? He had said that they were going to be in a major auction house, and Vintage is offering both, plus a Unitas game issued which I recall he said he had as well. Is this where they landed?

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 01:07 AM
I had the pleasure of seeing all 5 of the jerseys which APujols04 mentioned on this forum. Those are for sure his jerseys. I would love to know what Mike Heffner of Lelands thinks about M.E.A.R.S. and Lampson authenticating the Staubach and Bradshaw as game used. Lelands missed out these. Especially after he posted how he would "never" buy or take the items on consignment. To top the cake the seller also has the first signed Billy Martin jersey I have ever seen (the auto was passed by PSA/DNA). It is amazing. His Unitas jersey also got graded as being "game issued." Looks like Apujols04 ran into four amazing jerseys. Maybe he really could buy a Bentley now. What a run of luck especially considering how much APujols was trashed on this forum. Good for him.

CollectGU
02-13-2006, 08:50 AM
I am intersted to hear other forum members thoughts on the jerseys. Maybe Apujols has been vindicated to a certain extent.......

Eric
02-13-2006, 09:54 AM
I had the pleasure of seeing all 5 of the jerseys which APujols04 mentioned on this forum. Those are for sure his jerseys. I would love to know what Mike Heffner of Lelands thinks about M.E.A.R.S. and Lampson authenticating the Staubach and Bradshaw as game used. Lelands missed out these. Especially after he posted how he would "never" buy or take the items on consignment. To top the cake the seller also has the first signed Billy Martin jersey I have ever seen (the auto was passed by PSA/DNA). It is amazing. His Unitas jersey also got graded as being "game issued." Looks like Apujols04 ran into four amazing jerseys. Maybe he really could buy a Bentley now. What a run of luck especially considering how much APujols was trashed on this forum. Good for him.

How exactly did you have the pleasure of seeing all 5 of the jerseys?

Are you a buyer? An authenticator?
Eric

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 12:04 PM
Eric, David (apujols04) is a buddy of mine. He showed me the jerseys before he consigned them to V.A. We had no idea if they were the real deal or not.

CollectGU
02-13-2006, 12:35 PM
This is another example of the danger of this forum. If I recall these jerseys were "ripped" by forum memebrs as not being good, when in fact, they have now passed both MEARS and Lou Lampson authentication. I am sure that there are many on this forum who ripped on Apujols who would love to own a Bradshaw or Staubach gamer.

kingjammy24
02-13-2006, 12:56 PM
I didn't really follow the Apujols/Bradshaw/Staubach thread(s).

Without referring to him or his jerseys at all, I have a question about some posts on this particular thread about jerseys and authentication in general:

What does a jersey which has been "authenticated" by MEARS & Lampson have to do with it being legit or not? In other words, if a jersey is thought to be bad, and then authenticated by MEARS and Lampson, how does that mean that the jersey is then good?

There seems to be some assumptions I've missed.

Rudy.

Eric
02-13-2006, 01:23 PM
therealdealsports2006

Please email me back. I wrote you to see if the hotmail account you registed with is valid. I can be reached at ecky3@aol.com

Eric

both-teams-played-hard
02-13-2006, 01:24 PM
Looks like Apujols04 ran into four amazing jerseys.

I love it when people refer to themselves in the third person....Deion Sanders has to do what's best for Deion Sanders!

When photos of the jerseys were originally posted, they looked good! I was happy for the dude. He constantly re-posted (within minutes) changing his story and playing stupid. That's when I realized the person using the screen name of "04 pujols" was a flake.

CollectGU
02-13-2006, 01:28 PM
Rudy,

It doesn't mean that it's good, simply that it has their blessing which I am aware should only be part of the equation when purchasing an item. I'm guessing that most of the authenticators on this board who bashed the jerseys have never physically handled an authentic bradshaw or Staubach. I am more confident in the authenticity of those jerseys now having been handled by MEARS and Lou, who have actually physically inspected these jerseys and compared them to other exemplars from other authentic Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys they have looked at, then I am in some forum members looking at some jpeg images and deciding that they are not authentic. Just my opinion

ChrisCavalier
02-13-2006, 01:40 PM
This is another example of the danger of this forum. If I recall these jerseys were "ripped" by forum memebrs as not being good, when in fact, they have now passed both MEARS and Lou Lampson authentication. I am sure that there are many on this forum who ripped on Apujols who would love to own a Bradshaw or Staubach gamer.
Hello CollectGU-

I must respectfully disagree that this is a "danger of the forum". It makes it sound like the forum inherently makes people form decisions about items. I think it would be a mistake to think that is the case.

In my opinion, the role of the forum is to provide information so that people can make their own informed decisions about items. That is, the access to information is not inherently dangerous. On the other hand, I believe it is dangerous to form opinions exclusively on what others say, or don't say, about an item.

It is like the saying "Money is the root of all evil". I believe this saying comes from a passage that is misquoted. Since I didn't personally think money was, in and of itself, the root to all evil, I looked up the passage I was confident it came from. When I looked it up, the exact passage I found in this regard actually reads "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil..." That is, money itself is not the root of all evil. Money is simply an instrument used to facilitate the transaction process. However, the love of money can make people do some pretty unscrupulous things.

In the same way, the access to information and opinions is not inherently a "danger". However, if people solely base their opinions on what others have to say (this includes forum members, authenticators, etc.) without doing their own due diligence I think they are leaving themselves open to making bad decisions. In fact, I wrote a post recently that I believe can help elaborate on this further in regards to game used items. The post, which referred to assessing information regarding bat weights, can also be applied to all other game used items. If you haven't had the chance to read it, please take a look and let me know if I am off base on this topic. The post is post #10 in the following thread:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1341

Specifically, I believe the true "danger" exists when individuals rely exclusively on others to make decisions for them. Regarding the jerseys in this thread, I am not saying they are game used or not game used. I think it is up to each person to do their own due diligence, accumulate as many data points as possible (which will include getting information from this forum) and make their own decisions as to the probability that an item is truly game used.

I would love to hear others' thoughts in this regard.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier

kingjammy24
02-13-2006, 02:47 PM
CollectGU, you are "more confident in the authenticity of those jerseys now having been handled by MEARS and Lou, who have actually physically inspected these jerseys and compared them to other exemplars from other authentic Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys they have looked at"?

Hang on here, these seem to be more assumptions. Apparently, these jerseys have been "authenticated" by Lampson. I have no idea what that actually entails. You feel certain however that Lou "physically inspected these jerseys and compared them to other exemplars from other authentic Bradshaw and Staubach jerseys"? What basis is there for this massive assumption? Lou issued a COA/LOA for them. How does that mean that he's ever even seen these jerseys?

CollectGU, let me illustrate my point with 2 examples off the top of my head:
- Lou Lampson wrote a COA for a pair of Alomar cleats. (A member on here by the login of BaseballGM purchased them and received the Lampson COA. Thread found here: http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1067 )
Lampson's COA stated "No size tagging evident". In the cleats, there is a huge tag with the size. In fact, the Lampson COA even shows a picture of the size tagging! So much for Lou's "physical examinations". Did Lou actually see the Alomar cleats he was supposed to be "authenticating"? If he did, I'll seriously suggest that he may actually be blind in a legal and medical sense. How else can you possibly look at those cleats and write "no size tagging evident"? I suppose the only other explanation other than blindness would be if you never ever saw them.

- Lou Lampson once "authenticated" an Orioles green St.Patrick's Day jersey, stating it "compared to other green Orioles St. Pat's jerseys". It was shown that the Orioles never wore green St.Patrick's jerseys. So much for Lou's "comparing jerseys to other exemplars". He couldn't have compared them to other exemplars because no other exemplars exist.

I could go on and on and on....and on... with examples of Lou's "authenticating".

So this is the man that you really believe "physically inspected" these jerseys and "compared them to other exemplars"?. An authentication by Lou Lampson truly makes you "more confident in the authenticity" of these jerseys? Wow. :eek:

Personally, I would rather depend on submitting images of a jersey to the folks on this Forum than on Lou Lampson doing whatever he does with jerseys. I'd offer that you're underestimating the ability and knowledge of people on here and the amount of information that can indeed be conveyed via photos (why did MEARS' "in-person" examination of the current Vintage Authentics 1993 McGwire not discover that the jersey was a 1996, which I knew after spending 3 seconds looking at a photo of it?), while at the same time placing more trust in Lou Lampson than his actions have warranted.

Without any sort of facetiousness or sarcasm, I'll honestly say that I would rather have a jersey authenticated by my 89 yr old grandmother than by Lou Lampson. After all, the worst my grandmother can do is say she has no clue what it is. Lou, on the other hand, might say it compares to other (non-existant) exemplars.

Rudy.

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 02:56 PM
I love it when people refer to themselves in the third person....Deion Sanders has to do what's best for Deion Sanders!

When photos of the jerseys were originally posted, they looked good! I was happy for the dude. He constantly re-posted (within minutes) changing his story and playing stupid. That's when I realized the person using the screen name of "04 pujols" was a flake.

If I recall correctly, BTPH is the clown who types without double checking his info. You are the one who said the Mets jersey was a Minor League jersey based on it saying "mets" and then David photo matched the jersey to a MLB picture of Tom Seaver. I find the word "flake" to be baiting. But, I guess Eric continues to apply the rules differently based on who is posting. Is my post baiting now? But BTPH is not? Either way, APujols04 owns the jerseys. BTPH and Mike Heffner do not. Too bad because APujols04 planned on consigning the jerseys to Lelands before Mike Heffer turned them down without even doing A FREAKING OUNCE of research. Then he came on here and dissed David's jerseys. So Mike........are they still bad????

kingjammy24
02-13-2006, 02:59 PM
Chris,

Since you specifically asked to hear other's thoughts;

Completed agreed. To come on here and take any post as gospel, fact, and the absolute truth then that's just as bad as taking a COA/LOA as the same.

Sure the jerseys were "ripped". MEARS/Lou Lampson, on the other hand, passed them. Why a person would take either of those as gospel is beyond me. Why not simply view the "negative" opinions (I'm sure the members on here who ripped the jerseys had some valid points) along with MEARS/Lampson's opinions, combine them with your own analysis, and come to the conclusion that you genuinely feel is most accurate?

Rudy.

Eric
02-13-2006, 03:21 PM
If I recall correctly, BTPH is the clown who types without double checking his info. You are the one who said the Mets jersey was a Minor League jersey based on it saying "mets" and then David photo matched the jersey to a MLB picture of Tom Seaver. I find the word "flake" to be baiting. But, I guess Eric continues to apply the rules differently based on who is posting. Is my post baiting now? But BTPH is not? Either way, APujols04 owns the jerseys. BTPH and Mike Heffner do not. Too bad because APujols04 planned on consigning the jerseys to Lelands before Mike Heffer turned them down without even doing A FREAKING OUNCE of research. Then he came on here and dissed David's jerseys. So Mike........are they still bad????

For the second time, I'll ask you "therealdealsports2006" please email me. I have been trying to get in touch with you all day
I am available at ecky3@aol.com
Eric

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 03:31 PM
Eric? All Day? Are you TRYING to make me look bad. I got ONE email from you and answered it IMMEDIATELY after my last post. check your email and junk mail before jumping down my throat please.

trsent
02-13-2006, 04:04 PM
Four total posts and the poster starts in on Eric already?

Deja Vu isn't just a strip club in Las Vegas.

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 04:06 PM
Four total posts and the poster starts in on Eric already?

Deja Vu isn't just a strip club in Las Vegas.

nope, look at erics 2 posts. they are 2 hours apart. then he tries to make it look like I have been dodging him ALL DAY? is it my job to sit here all day in case Eric needs me for something?

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 04:11 PM
Eric does not get mad at any other new poster when they don't reply to his emails within a few hours. Based on the thread, there are different rules for different people. Did you get my email Eric? Was it there BEFORE you snapped?

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 04:16 PM
bottom line.....I am waiting for someone to explain what the problem is NOW with the jerseys? All the so-called experts have gone? There sure were a lot naysayers who seem to now be avoiding this thread. Why? Where is Mike Heffner now?

both-teams-played-hard
02-13-2006, 04:20 PM
Eric
Is it possible to wait 'til after 6 PST before RealDeal is banned? This makes for good reading.

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 04:27 PM
Eric
Is it possible to wait 'til after 6 PST before RealDeal is banned? This makes for good reading.

please let me know how you missed so badly on the mets jersey. You are a clown. you don't know your stuff.

both-teams-played-hard
02-13-2006, 04:31 PM
You are a clown.

So what are you saying? I'm funny. I amuse you?

bat_master
02-13-2006, 04:39 PM
I'm sure most of you have heard the term or phrase "Taking the high road". Couldn't we do that even if it was just once in awhile? Seriously, it gets irritating that week after week large arguments break out because people just can't let things go.

Tim Byington

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 04:42 PM
BTPH - what is funny is trying to watch you authenticate jerseys on this forum. The blind leading the curious is what I describe your involvement.

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 04:44 PM
I'm sure most of you have heard the term or phrase "Taking the high road". Couldn't we do that even if it was just once in awhile? Seriously, it gets irritating that week after week large arguments break out because people just can't let things go.

Tim Byington

Eric took the low road by not having any patience and calling me out during my first 24 hours as a member. Probably has something to do with the fact I know APujols04. BTPH took the low road next. Reread how this thread went.......

ChrisCavalier
02-13-2006, 05:25 PM
Eric took the low road by not having any patience and calling me out during my first 24 hours as a member. Probably has something to do with the fact I know APujols04. BTPH took the low road next. Reread how this thread went.......
Hello realdealsports-

I am responding to your post so that you know this has nothing to do with any personal situations involving APujols04. Eric's post asking you to email him is his right as moderator given the tone of your initial posts. This is substantiated by Forum Rule #17 and your statements regarding Mike/Lelands.

Eric's second request for you to respond to his post came after you had replied again on the forum but Eric had not received anything from you. While it is plausible the email may have been delayed due to server issues or something along those lines, he is certainly not out of line to make the request again. You could have simply let Eric know you sent him an email.

Your subsequent tone and baiting of others has taken this thread in an amazingly similar direction as the threads that involved APujols04. In addition, your repeated postings are also strikingly similar to the posting pattern of APujols04. At this point, I am going to tell you that any further posts that can be in any way construed as a rule violation will result in your having the same fate as your buddy. I am posting this so that you know it has nothing to do with personal vendettas or anything of the sort. It has to do with the fact that we have made a commitment to keep this site free of confrontational antagonists.

We are also going to ask all other members to refrain from engaging in interactions that do not add value to the collecting community. It is our intention to create a site that everyone can be proud to be a part of and it will be regulated as such.

Please feel free to let us know if you have any questions.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

Eric
02-13-2006, 05:54 PM
I'll speak for myself at this point.

The ONLY reason I have been trying to contact this "new user" is to confirm the hotmail address that he registered with.

I have the right to try to determine if someone is providing valid information.

It actually had nothing to do with the tone of your posts because they weren't obnoxious AT THAT TIME. Now, you have crossed the line.

You're apparently new to the site, so I'll tell you, that doesn't fly here. There are rules that you have already broken just like your friend APujols04 who is now permanently banned.

Please email me at ecky3@aol.com to discuss this further. I have not received any email from you today and there is nothing in my spam folder.

Eric

trsent
02-13-2006, 06:49 PM
Eric, funny how this new user is defending an old user who has already been suspended. Sounds pretty odd to me. How many friends would argue so hard for their suspended friends?

It is 2006, it is not the dark ages anymore and I always feel it if smells like a rat, tastes like a rat and looks like a rat...well, you get my point.

Also, Eric and Chris, isn't it about time we had a new forum for general life discussions? I am tired of every post I make possibly offending Chris Boyd.

ChrisCavalier
02-13-2006, 08:35 PM
Chris,

Since you specifically asked to hear other's thoughts;

Completed agreed. To come on here and take any post as gospel, fact, and the absolute truth then that's just as bad as taking a COA/LOA as the same.

Sure the jerseys were "ripped". MEARS/Lou Lampson, on the other hand, passed them. Why a person would take either of those as gospel is beyond me. Why not simply view the "negative" opinions (I'm sure the members on here who ripped the jerseys had some valid points) along with MEARS/Lampson's opinions, combine them with your own analysis, and come to the conclusion that you genuinely feel is most accurate?
Hello Rudy-

I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for your feedback. I think we are in complete agreement. I also wanted to thank you for helping forum members understand the McGwire jersey in the Vintage Authentics auction was actually from 1996 not 1993. Your efforts in that area are very much appreciated.

Sincerely,
Chris

CollectGU
02-13-2006, 08:53 PM
To Eric or Chris,

can we unlock or post a link to the original threads on this subject to see what forum members had to say about these jerseys back then?

Eric
02-13-2006, 09:05 PM
All of the original threads are there. What specifically are you looking for?
Eric

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 11:13 PM
Eric, will you please post the links to the original discussion about these jerseys--specifially the bradshaw and the staubach. I find it hard to believe that you felt trying to contact me for two hours could be considered "all day." I have sent you 2 emails now. Have you still not received them? Please add my email address to your "contacts" and they will probably show up in your inbox.

Why is BTPH allowed to use name calling? Isn't that against the "rules"? Please explain how his post is the exception? PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT FOR DEFFERENT PEOPLE? It is bogus!

I also recall reading your post stating that you deleted ALL defamatory posts. If that is true, there won't be too much substance and proof when we go back and read the posts as most of the garbage which was written would have been a rules violation that you "fixed" for them.

All I can think about this board is that there are crooks out there like maybe BTPH who say stuff is no good with the hope they can themselves aquire the jersey before any authenticor sees it. Then they avaiod questions about the dodging while attacking Bernie for doing the same thing! CLOWNS! Whoever is doing both attacking and dodging is the type of person who should be banned. The amount of people who seem to be working the shady side are of a higher number than those who are polite and helpful. At least when it came to the five jerseys being discussed right? Why do I defend Apujols04? Because it is one man against the majority of posters who post in these threads. I like the underdog. Especially when people say stuff without backing it up like Mike Heffner and BTPH. Someone has to step in at some point. I do find it funny that no modertor responded to the original question in this thread. Was it because of pride? Because they didn't wan't to acknowledge that the 4 jersey had in fact been authenticated? Why is nobody calling these jerseys "bad" anymore if MEARS and LAMPSON are not enough? Think about that.

therealdealsports2006
02-13-2006, 11:17 PM
To Eric or Chris,

can we unlock or post a link to the original threads on this subject to see what forum members had to say about these jerseys back then?

I am sorry it took a week to get a response to your first question. Eric and Chris knew the answer to your question. maybe since the thread concerned Apujols04, then they were not willing to respond. However, they are usually nice enough to address ANY other question presented. Is it personal? Who really cares. At least I too have not been banned. I am speaking the truth, and there is no denying that others have broke the rules in this very thread. Double standards will always exist in the world. G.U.U. is no exception. Thanks for letting me respond Eric.

CollectGU
02-14-2006, 10:27 AM
I can't seem to find the original threads on these jerseys which I think were sometime in Late November early December? If someone can post a link it would be appreciated.

sammy
02-14-2006, 10:43 AM
Here are all the posts that apujols04 participated in.

The information you seek is contained within the following.


http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/search.php?searchid=4634 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/search.php?searchid=4634)

Steve Jensen
02-15-2006, 04:16 PM
I couldn't pull up the link to view the discussion but i am very familiar with the 4 jerseys involved. to shed some light, there were 2 that passed (Bradshaw & Staubach) and 2 that failed (Unitas & Musial) the Bradshaw graded an A7.5, the Staubach an A6. The Unitas is being run as a game issue (NOT GAME WORN) jersey and Musial was sent back. Hopefully that sheds some light on the discussion.

Best,
Steve

sammy
02-15-2006, 05:38 PM
The link worked when I posted it yesterday.

Perhaps it was a one time link because when I search again, the same items come up but with a different link
.
Try this one now. Just used it and it is good.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/search.php?searchid=4769 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/search.php?searchid=4769)

If that doesn't work for you, click on "Search" and click "Advanced Search". Once you are at that link, type or paste "apujols04" in the "Search by User Name" link and proceed to the bottom.

All the items apujols04 posted in will come up.

Eric has not taken down, disabled, or removed any of these.

Eric
02-15-2006, 06:50 PM
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=419&highlight=staubach