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ChrisCavalier
11-28-2007, 01:49 PM
Hello Everyone,

In an effort to make the process of contacting sellers as simple as possible, we have created the following template for members to use prior to making posts on the forum. Very simply, members can just cut and paste the verbiage below and insert the necessary information specific to each situation (seller name, question, etc.). We believe that by using the template below, there should be no reason a seller should take offense to the questions you are asking. In fact, if the seller does not appreciate the manner in which the template poses the question than I think it is fair to assume they are not likely going to give you an answer anyway.

Thus, in the future, when posting a question about an item on the forum, simply state when you sent the following notification to the seller so everyone knows the seller has had the opportunity to respond to the question first before it is posted publicly. Please feel free to let me know if you have any questions. Here the text members can use to contact sellers:

Dear <Insert Seller Name>,

I am writing to you because I have a question regarding an item you currently have for sale. Notably, I am a member of the Game Used Universe website which has a public forum that was created for members to share information with one another. I was planning to post my question on that site. However, in an effort to make sure we do not make posts based on any misunderstandings about items, we are asked to email our question to the sellers of items and allow 24 hours for the seller to respond before we post our questions publicly.

Therefore, I would like to submit the following question to you. If I do not hear back from you within the next 24 hours I will respectfully post my question on the Game Used Universe forum so I can receive a response from other educated collectors in a timely manner.

Thank you in advance for your reply. Here is my question:

<Insert Question>

Sincerely,
<Insert Your Name>

kingjammy24
11-28-2007, 03:53 PM
chris, good template. admittedly though, i'm still confused about a few things. the rule stipulates that a seller must be contacted prior to "questioning" an item. in this thread, you mention that the template ought to be used prior to "posting a question about an item on the forum"

in your own words the entire justification behind this rule is to "prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item".

yet earlier, rob steinmetz posted this:

"Scenario #3:
Forum member does some research and makes a post in the forum with the heading: "Help needed on item in XYZ Auction" (or something similiar). Forum member clearly states their question without any unnecessary editorial comments about the item or seller. Acceptable (even without contacting the seller)."

1) you say that when posting a question about an item, the seller must be contacted first. rob says it's acceptable to raise a question about an item without contacting the seller. who's right? it's genuinely not my intent to engage in a debate on semantics but i really am confused.

2) let's say i see a jersey and it shows a patch or font i've never seen before. i'm curious about the insight other forum members may have so i post saying "has anyone seen this patch/font on these jerseys before?" then do i need to contact the seller? if so, then i fail to see how the seller would know what others have seen.

3) in your own words, the entire justification behind the rule is to "prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item". i understand and agree with this. however, sometimes there are no misunderstandings. GFC currently has a jersey advertised as a "1976 bob boone angels game-used jersey". this is a fact. bob boone didn't play for the angels in 1976. this is also a fact. mark hayne inquired if i contacted GFC prior to pointing out these 2 facts. what exactly could GFC possibly say that would reverse the course of history and put boone on the '76 angels? if something is as factual as boone not playing for the '76 angels and thus there is no misunderstanding, then what's the justification for the rule?

rudy.

ChrisCavalier
11-29-2007, 03:16 AM
1) you say that when posting a question about an item, the seller must be contacted first. rob says it's acceptable to raise a question about an item without contacting the seller. who's right? it's genuinely not my intent to engage in a debate on semantics but i really am confused.

2) let's say i see a jersey and it shows a patch or font i've never seen before. i'm curious about the insight other forum members may have so i post saying "has anyone seen this patch/font on these jerseys before?" then do i need to contact the seller? if so, then i fail to see how the seller would know what others have seen.

3) in your own words, the entire justification behind the rule is to "prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item". i understand and agree with this. however, sometimes there are no misunderstandings. GFC currently has a jersey advertised as a "1976 bob boone angels game-used jersey". this is a fact. bob boone didn't play for the angels in 1976. this is also a fact. mark hayne inquired if i contacted GFC prior to pointing out these 2 facts. what exactly could GFC possibly say that would reverse the course of history and put boone on the '76 angels? if something is as factual as boone not playing for the '76 angels and thus there is no misunderstanding, then what's the justification for the rule?
Hello Rudy,

Rather than trying to discuss potentially endless possible scenarios of what to do in specific situations, I think the simplest thing would be to let the spirit of this site govern the way you question items on the forum. That is, the specific rule (or "letter of the law") for questioning items is as follows:

Rule #16: In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, it is expected that the poster clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, it is expected that the poster questioning an item will attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item.

So why is this rule is place? As discussed many times before, we have implemented this rule because we believe publicly questioning items on this forum, especially with accusations concerning the seller's possible motivations, has the potential to adversely affect someone's livelihood in a very real and material way. This is especially true now that this site has grown to the point it has and is playing an integral role in the hobby. Therefore, we believe the appropriate and responsible thing to do is allow the seller the opportunity to reply to any potential concerns before any questions are aired publicly. This is particularly applicable if the questions are raised in a manner that appears to question the seller's intentions.

That is where the "spirit of the law" comes in. Basically, our goal with the site is to help collectors gain information and, in cases like these, help them make informed decisions about the items they purchase. The purpose of the site is not to attack various entities with an intent to discredit them. That is why we ask our members to contact sellers first so they at least have the chance to respond to questions and even rectify legitimate mistakes if they have made them when trying to market an item. As we have said many times before, no one is perfect. However, how entities respond to their mistakes will tell you a lot about their character. Thus, we feel it is important to give them the chance to respond before the questions are posted publicly.

With that said, I think the additional rule we have in place (it is the one after the one above in the complete list of rules for the site) should serve as a guide to determine how and when it it appropriate to post on this site. Said another way, the following rule suggests the "spirit" of what this site is about:

Rule #17: It is expected that all posts are to be created with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby. Any posts which the Administrator deems as a personal attack or an attempt to unnecessarily discredit others will be subject to the administrative rules of the forum.

As I have said before, I personally think it would help everyone to understand why rules are in place so they don't find them obtrusive or burdensome. For example, if you understand that speed limits exist because they allow society to function in a manner that is conducive to the safety of its members, you likely won't think the law is simply trying to restrict you from driving faster. In this case, if we all follow the spirit of Rule #17, it will probably make it much clearer as to when making posts are appropriate and when they aren't.

With that said, regarding your questions above, I will say asking for information regarding types of patches or stating factual information about a player is not a rule violation. However, if once again you consider things in light of the spirit of the rules, I think you will know when it is appropriate to contact the seller first and when that may not be necessary. I also think it will help you determine the manner in which to construct the post so as not to violate Rule #17.

Please let me know if that makes sense.

Sincerely,
Chris

G1X
11-30-2007, 02:26 AM
In Rudy's previous post, he asked the question, "Mark Hayne inquired if I contacted GFC prior to pointing out these 2 facts. What exactly could GFC possibly say that would reverse the course of history and put Boone on the '76 Angels?"

The point for contacting the Seller seems to be entirely missed by that statement. It's not so much a matter of what they say, but rather a matter of what we hope they will do to correct the issue. In any situation, if a concern is not communicated directly to the Seller, how can anyone expect the Seller to take any type of corrective action if they are not made aware of the problem to begin with?

I don't know about any of you, but I certainly cannot correct an error if I do not know about it. And I certainly hope that someone would tell me about it privately instead of first stating it publicly.

It is all about proper communications, and even more important, common courtesy.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

mvandor
11-30-2007, 12:26 PM
You REALLY want to make this forum useful? Start tracking by auction house all items questioned and their handling of each.

In 6 months we'll have a verifiable picture of who the auction houses are that:

1. Consistently try to move bad items as SOP.
2. When called on it, insist on continuing the auctions.

If nothing else, it'd become ral god research for the FBI.

mvandor
11-30-2007, 12:27 PM
You REALLY want to make this forum useful? Start tracking by auction house all items questioned and their handling of each.

In 6 months we'll have a verifiable picture of who the auction houses are that:

1. Consistently try to move bad items as SOP.
2. When called on it, insist on continuing the auctions.

If nothing else, it'd become real good research for the FBI.

Fixed. Darned keyboard!