Gaylord Perry Padres lettering?

[Eric]

In the current grey flannel auction

Lot # 49 - 1978 Gaylord Perry San Diego Padres Game-Used Road Jersey (Cy Young Season)

http://greyflannelauctions.com/showdetail.cfm?CategoryNum=2&Lot=49

I'd love to hear some opinions on the lettering in the word Padres and the collar customization from any Padres or Gaylord Perry experts.

7226

7227

[Eric]

Also, please look at this photo

Check out the collar customization on Perry and the player "Rasmussen" behind Gaylord. Looks like the name is not on a nameplate

7228

7229

[kingjammy24]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8319/tagxn3.jpg

this was a one-year only style worn in 1978.

rudy.

[Billyu40]

It is also missing the 1978 All-Star game patch on the left arm.

[kingjammy24]

it's my personal opinion that the thing is a complete restoration. "san diego" is wrong, "padres" is wrong and even the numbers are wrong. the fonts for all of them aren't even close.

apparently these were recycled to the minors and so it's very difficult to find an original. perhaps someone found one that had been recycled to the minors, hence the removal of the patch (why would the major league team remove the patch if they weren't planning on using them again in 1979? the only reason i can think of is to recycle them through the minors) and decided to turn it into a gaylord perry.

i'd like to know more about nick coppola's discerning eye.

rudy.

[R. C. Walker]

Also, please look at this photo

Check out the collar customization on Perry and the player "Rasmussen" behind Gaylord. Looks like the name is not on a nameplate

8484

The Padres used nameplates on all the brown and gold era jerseys. Eric Rassmussen was traded to the Padres during the ’78 season is one of those unique instances when (for whatever reason) the Padres did not use a nameplate. I had seen the Rassmussen in an auction and did not bid on it for that very reason. Unfortunately, I found that same Corbis picture a month or so afterwards.

Nothing on this Perry jersey is correct. Fonts for the numbers, San Diego, Padres, Perry and flag tag are completely wrong. Even the rip of the collar shows no sign of wear, as you can see in the previous photos of Gaylord. The Padres recycled jersey through the minors during the ’70’s and early ’80’s. If this had been one, there would have been a marking on the Wilson tag with a black maker.

Stay away!

[hblakewolf]

A bit shocked that no one picked up on the incorrect Wilson tag. Post 1980+ on a 1978 jersey?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[both-teams-played-hard]

I have tried to locate old posts about Winfield Padres jerseys from this same era. Does anyone recall the Winfields that showed up on eBay and some auction houses? They had very similar problems as this Perry (fonts, tagging, etc.) They were said to have hand cut lettering and numbers. They didn't appear to be altered authentic replicas or mitchell&Nesses with changed tags. Can someone jog my memory?

[Eric]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/383222/message/1130432878/Any+thoughts+on+Winfield+jersey

[both-teams-played-hard]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/383222/message/1130432878/Any+thoughts+on+Winfield+jersey
Eric
Thanks. Memory jogged. Seems this Winfield has the same issues as the Perry. Same Seamstress? The World may never know.

[karamaxjoe]

You guys never cease to amaze me on the stuff you find.

I did a little looking also and found a 78 Perry and Winfield jersey in a Lelands auction from August of 2001. Both jerseys have the exact same font problems as the GF Perry jersey. I also wanted to note both jerseys sold in the thousands and the Lelands Perry is not the same jersey as the GF Perry. It appears someone put together a few of these after they were recycled. Does anyone have a common 78 Padre jersey?

Mike

[kingjammy24]

here are the '78 padres jerseys from lelands' previous auctions:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3370/padresee4.jpg

rudy.

[both-teams-played-hard]

It appears someone put together a few of these after they were recycled.


Since these shirts have the wrong year Wilson tag, it doesn't seem like they were recycled. It seems as though they were forged from scratch.

[kingjammy24]

warren,

i'm always up for learning more about tags. as far as i know however, the wilson tag on the perry falls into the correct date range.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1592

do you and howard know something i don't?

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

look.. check out the 2 "R"'s in the GFC perry. notice how the first R has a noticeably larger space in the middle than the second R? this occurs in BOTH the GFC jersey and the lelands jersey. these letters look hand-cut. it's not a perfect vertical arch. there are human errors in the angles. anyway, on each jersey, the first R has a large space in the middle of it and on each jersey the second R has a smaller space. on each jersey the "E" is higher than the proceeding "R". what are the odds?

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3345/padrescf4.jpg

rudy.

[both-teams-played-hard]

warren,

i'm always up for learning more about tags. as far as i know however, the wilson tag on the perry falls into the correct date range.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1592

do you and howard know something i don't?

rudy.
Actually, I was assuming Howard's info was correct. I'm not sure, and I should have refered to the JammyFiles first!
I agree, the R's in PERRY look real close...

[hblakewolf]

warren,

i'm always up for learning more about tags. as far as i know however, the wilson tag on the perry falls into the correct date range.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1592 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1592)

do you and howard know something i don't?

rudy.

Hi Rudy-
Based upon your previous post some months ago, you indicte that the Registered (R) mark on the Wilson tag was moved to the bottom of the N in WILSON starting in 1978. Based upon the folowing, I have to disagree and also resurface my concern about this tag in question:

1. I had a 1978 Jerry Turner Padres jersey many, many years ago. The R in the tag was positioned on the top onf the N.

2. Based upon the hundreds of jerseys I have had from the Phillies, it appears that Wilson had a "transition" year of 1980 when they moved the R on the Wilson tag. The Phillies only wore wilson Jerseys from the 1940's through 1986. EVERY jersey I have through 1979 has the R positioned on top of the N. The attached photos are included as reference. Note that 2 of the 3 1980 Phillies road jerseys have the R below the N. Only my Bob Boone 1980 has it positoned above. Likewise, every jersey from the Phillies dating from 1981 through 1985 have the same R below the N.
8516

8517

Did Wilson incrporate the Wilson tag first used on the Phillies jerseys in 1980, 2 seasons prior (1978) for the Padres (see photo from the 1978 Padres Perry in question)???
7261


My previous post was based upon the above. Should another individual have other 1978 Padres jerseys that they can share the tagging from, I'd welcome it here.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[hblakewolf]

Hi Rudy-
Based upon your previous post some months ago, you indicte that the Registered (R) mark on the Wilson tag was moved to the bottom of the N in WILSON starting in 1978. Based upon the folowing, I have to disagree and also resurface my concern about this tag in question:

1. I had a 1978 Jerry Turner Padres jersey many, many years ago. The R in the tag was positioned on the top onf the N.

2. Based upon the hundreds of jerseys I have had from the Phillies, it appears that Wilson had a "transition" year of 1980 when they moved the R on the Wilson tag. The Phillies only wore wilson Jerseys from the 1940's through 1986. EVERY jersey I have through 1979 has the R positioned on top of the N. The attached photos are included as reference. Note that 2 of the 3 1980 Phillies road jerseys have the R below the N. Only my Bob Boone 1980 has it positoned above. Likewise, every jersey from the Phillies dating from 1981 through 1985 have the same R below the N.
8516

8517

Did Wilson incrporate the Wilson tag first used on the Phillies jerseys in 1980, 2 seasons prior (1978) for the Padres (see photo from the 1978 Padres Perry in question)???
8518


My previous post was based upon the above. Should another individual have other 1978 Padres jerseys that they can share the tagging from, I'd welcome it here.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Here are the photos of the Phillies jerseys:

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7263

[kingjammy24]

hey howard,

let me first explain how i came to the conclusions in the wilson tagging primer. first, i compiled huge amounts of wilson jerseys. when deciding on a particular date for a specific tag, i tried to see when that specific tag first appeared. let me say straight off the bat, this doesn't at all mean that all wilson jerseys for that year had that specific style of wilson tag. i found huge amounts of carryovers. carryovers weren't my concern however. all i really wanted to know was when that specific wilson tag first appeared. so when i say that the wilson tag with the "R" on the bottom of the "N" first appeared in 1978, it simply means that i found a reasonable mass of jerseys from 1978 (with 1978 year tags) that had the "R" on the bottom of the "N". now unless all of these jerseys (most of which were common player jerseys) were all fake, this indicated to me that this particular wilson tag first appeared in 1978.

you say that you believe it first made it's appearance in 1980 and your evidence are those phillies jerseys. is it possible that either the jerseys themselves were carryovers or that wilson, in 1980, had no qualms about using older tags? i have no trouble imagining wilson using "older" tags simply to reduce costs and use up existing inventory.

if your theory is correct, that the tag first made its appearance in 1980, then it would mean that all of the jerseys i saw from 1978 were fakes. if you make decisions based on what's more likely, it seems more likely that the phillies jerseys were carryovers and/or that wilson used some old tags than all of the 1978 and 1979 jerseys i've seen being fake. it makes sense for some newer jerseys to use older tags. it doesn't make any sense for older jerseys to use newer tags.

here are some 1978 and 1979 jerseys with the tag that you believe first appeared in 1980. what do you make of them?

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=512&lot=693

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=412&lot=557

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=405&lot=655

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=34134

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=29820

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=23241

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/showdetail.cfm?CategoryNum=3&Lot=174

you posted 3 pics of 1980 phillies jerseys. those 3 jerseys use 2 different styles of wilson tags, indicating that the phillies did use carryovers.

re: the jerry turner jersey
when talking about tag changes, i don't know exactly, in terms of the week or month, when wilson started to use a new tag. i have a theory that new tags may have been made late in the season and possibly applied to some late season orders. hence, you wouldn't see the new tagging on the overwhelming majority of jerseys that year. typically you'd see it the following year. however, perhaps a few late season orders got the new tags.

"Did Wilson incrporate the Wilson tag first used on the Phillies jerseys in 1980, 2 seasons prior (1978) for the Padres"

given that the padres jerseys were a one-year only style for 1978, we definitely know that they were made in 1978. maybe the question isn't so much whether wilson incorporate the new tag for the padres and not the phillies, but instead whether the phillies carried over old blank jerseys, hence the tagging that the padres saw in 1978 was first seen on the phillies in 1980. the thing about your experience is that i'd love to see it based on more than 1 team. it's just too easy for one team practice, such as carryovers, to affect the data.

anyway, let me know what you think of the jerseys shown in the links above.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

just wanted to add..i could be wrong ;) but, i simply noticed that i saw jerseys from 1978 with that style of wilson tag. if they weren't fake, then i thought it was pretty conclusive. looking at older jerseys (70s-80s) i did notice tons of carryovers. i'm not sure if wilson was using old tags mixed in with new ones or if teams were carrying over or both. i simply noted when i first saw a certain tag appear among a reasonable amount of common player jerseys. if wilson was using a mix of old and new tags during a transitionary period, then the important point that still stands is when they first began using the new tags even if they only used them in small quantities.

lon lewis knows a lot about wilson tags. hopefully he'll add his 2 bits in here.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

wow i can't believe this jersey is still up for auction. GFC pulled the henderson and the blue but not this one?

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

it's back:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270351138332

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

32 bids. sold for $1037. nice.

rudy.

[cjw]

For what it is worth..these are pics of my movie-used, WILSON-made, 1978 Padres-style (almost exact style?) home white jersey...for comparison purposes. It has a 1979 year tag and the movie was shot in 1979, but the presence of the "SAN DIEGO" lettering above the PADRES lettering dates this to 1978. Fonts and nameplate are shown.