Grey Flannel : Clemens And Rivera Game Used Gloves

[ducksdukes]

Grey Flannel surrently has two NY Yankee game used gloves for auction. The first is Roger Clemens and the second is Mariano Rivera. I would appreciate any thoughts concerning authenticity from knowledgable collectors. Thanks.

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/showdetail.cfm?Lot=214&Search=CLEMENS

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/showdetail.cfm?Lot=252&Search=RIVERA

[cjclong]

I am also interested in these gloves. I've learned a lot about bats here the last few years but admit to knowing little about gloves. Do these appear to be really game used or just the players models with an autograph. I know this question has come up before and I'd like the input of anyone who is knowledgeable on this subject.

[cjclong]

I'm still interested if anyone has any opinion as to whether these appear to be game used gloves. If the Clemons glove is autographed there must be some source to it.

[kilroy20]

http://206.188.193.59/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=316&HS=1


Check Roger's website out first. Same glove, autograph in same place. However mint glove.

[sheepdog]

The Cy Young inscription with Young spelled out is very nice
and not found on the glove on his charity site

[kilroy20]

I am not saying that the glove is not game used, or Roger didn't write all of that. What I am saying is do you homework before spending a lot of money with something that has little use on it. I have just like most in the hobby trusted somebody and got burned later, or found out that the person didn't know what he or she had. I put that out there so all the information is presented. I hope to God it is real just like everything I have purchased in the 25 years I been collecting.

[cjclong]

Its frustrating when you ask a seller to give some information on the background of an item described as game used and they just say its a respected source. I understand the desire not to give out names but it would seem they could give a little background as to how the item was acquired.

[David]

I agree. While I understand they may not wish to give the consignor's identity, it would be nice to give the nature of the source where the item came from-- 'clubhouse worker,' 'former team employee.'

A friend of mine won a bunch of personal items that belonged to a famous athlete in a Lelands auction. After he won it, he was curious where it came from-- in part as he was curious and in part he wanted to know if the provenance helped proved that it belonged to the person. Lelands gave him the phone number of the consignor (presumably the consignor said it was okay), and it turned out the consignor was the athlete's nextdoor neighbor and longtime family friend who the athlete gave the items too. She also gave my friend important details about the items that weren't included in the auction description. Needless to say, my friend was satisfied with Lelands' 'source.'

[sheepdog]

Gfa added a nice paragraph on the web, consistent with
the glove description.

Nice job here

[cjclong]

I was very interested in the reason given in the description of Clemons glove as to why a pitchers glove might appear stiff even if it is game used. I wonder if many other pitchers used gloves that are stiff as I have seen several gloves advertised as game used by pitchers that appeared to be very stiff? Is this a not unusual practice as I hadn't heard of it before. And wouldn't it have some effect on a pitchers ability to field a ball?

[cjclong]

With what happened with the Clemons glove in the just completed Historic Auctions auction does anyone have a feel for this Clemons glove as far as being one that was game used by him. Mears was so definite about the Clemons glove in the HA auction being authentic that if makes me very wary of getting a game used fielding glove if I don't know the providence. I might have been one of the HA auction bidders for the Clemons glove if their catalog had arrived before the auction rather than after it was over.

[kingjammy24]

i believe if someone doesn't understand what they're bidding on, then they shouldn't bid on it. educating yourself in a niche isn't particularly difficult. this stuff isn't rocket science.

often i see buyers spending thousands on obviously bad pieces and i wonder who these people are. who spends $1500 on a jersey that can't even be stylematched because the team wordmark is completely off? over $600 on a jersey that has numbers on the front when it shouldn't? almost $600 on a jersey that clearly has an 0503B2 washtag sewn on top of the seam? i have to think they're people who have little idea of what they're looking at. they're just hoping that the auction house or authenticator got it right and did all the work for them.

when you become an expert in your niche, you have little need for an auction house/authenticators opinion, especially an authenticator that apparently is unable to tell the difference between a retail glove and a pro model.

i suppose my advice could also extend to say that if you don't understand what you're examining, then don't examine it. for pete's sake, just admit you don't have the necessary expertise and leave it up to someone who does, instead of accepting the authentication fee and then bumbling the whole thing up. when thousands of dollars are at stake, it's inappropriate to pretend you're an expert.

rudy.

[cjclong]

Rudy, you are basically right that buyers need to protect themselves. However I collect a limited number of items from a limited number of players. I know a certain amount of information about players bats and generally know what I need to ask if I don't know the answer myself. There are a handful of players I would like game used fielding gloves for. It would be ideal if I could research them myself, however I have to make a living and can't spend hours and hours searching as some people are fortunate to be able to do. And this forum has had arguments from knowlegable people on both sides of several game used glove issues and it is much harder to get information on fielding gloves than bats. If I have a question, as I have about these gloves I try to check here. Because of a basic skepticism I probably ultimately wouldn't have bid on the Clemons glove but I would have been tempted and I would have asked some questions about it on this forum. I saw that after the fact some people came forward here with legitimate questions about the glove. It would be great if there was a source of information about fielding gloves as I have seen questions about them asked here. One way those of us who collect but aren't experts can learn from people on this forum.

[kingjammy24]

i didn't mean to imply that someone shouldn't ask questions. obviously, i think this forum is a fantastic educational resource. i've learnt a ton.

my point was to ask questions and get your ducks in order prior to bidding. that's all really. using this forum is a great way to help get your ducks in order.

"It would be ideal if I could research them myself, however I have to make a living and can't spend hours and hours searching as some people are fortunate to be able to do."

understandable. although, i always thought hobbies, by their nature, were intended to take up hours and hours of free time. at any rate, you may want to run a comparison between the amount of money you'd lose on a bad item and how long it would take you to work to earn that amount. if someone spends $5k on a bad clemens glove, for example, and says "i work for a living! i can't be looking at no pictures all day!" then i'm curious how long they have to work to recoup their $5k (which is net income of course). if you have to work 80 hrs to recoup $5k net then doesn't it make sense to spend at least 40 hrs doing research that might prevent you from losing that $5k? spending 40hrs to save yourself 80hrs sounds like a good use of time to me.

rudy.

[cjclong]

Again Rudy, I would agree with you to a point. If you are going to pay out a lot of money unless you are Warren Buffet you don't want to throw your money away. Until I found this forum I didn't realize how much fraud there was unfortunately. As I said, my knowledge is with bats and while I'm not the expert some people are I think I can protect myself reasonably well. However I have acquired what knowledge I have over several years. I am not an expert on gloves. If a Clemons glove or a Jeter glove became available, unless they came from a source like Steiner I would be hard put to judge their authenticity. I couldn't do a cram course that would make me an expert. Its not just spending the time, but also knowing where to spend it. On this thread I asked about the claim that Clemons uses very stiff gloves. I have a question about this as it seems a better broken in glove would be better for fielding. But it may be entirely accurate. But I don't know where I would independently check out this information. And no one on the forum responded. None of us can be an expert in every area and so we have to rely on others or not make a purchase if we don't have the knowledge. As you pointed out I don't want to throw my money away and since I can't get information on the Clemons glove and I have to decide whether to gamble and either make a bad buy or miss out on a good one. And since I'm not in Warren Buffets league I will probably do the pass up choice knowing I'll regret it if it turns out to be a genuine Yankee Clemons game used glove.