Need help/opinions on this helmet

[Jags Fan Dan]

I have been after a Brunell game used helmet for some time. If anyone has any opinions on this helmet http://cgi.ebay.com/MARK-BRUNELL-AUTO-JAGUARS-1995-1996-GAME-WORN-HELMET_W0QQitemZ260163244112QQihZ016QQcategoryZ868 28QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

versus this one offer by Jim Yackel http://www.jimyackel.com/8BrunnellH.JPG

I would appreciate any comments. I note the interior padding is different, but that is about the only difference I see.

[mvandor]

Well, I'm a longtime customer of Joe and his Gridiron Authentics, and we've had quite a discussion here about his misuse of the term "game issue" to describe what are essentially RealStuff-like replications of actual game helmets. He has shown by sticking to his knowing abuse of this term, and his shaded explanations of those items, that money is just a bit more important to him than honesty and integrity.

Having said that, I do find it very difficult to believe he'd flatout lie about a game worn helmet; there's no room to equivocate on that term or description.

Jim Yackel's rep is solid.

Nevertheless, I'd ask both about where they got them, what provenance they have.

BTW, I asked myself is it possible Brunell switched to the VSR-4 from the AF2 in 96 as both were represented as 96 worn? Sure, but photo checking the differences might be tough as they appear to be subtle and nearly all visible only on the interior. Personally, I kinda like GA's a tad better as the Yackel VSR-4 is pretty close to the typical retail Proline model, not as unique, but that's me.

As always, I defer to aeneas and his far more knowledgeable opinion.

[RKGIBSON]

Jags Fan,
The following is just for your information. I have no opinion on the helmets in question.

I have became friends with Skip Richardson, who is the head of football operations for the Jags. I have had several discussions on how equipment works in Jacksonville. He says the helmets are used all year or till they are damaged and need replacing or reconditioning. They wait and send 5 stripped helmet shell at a time. He also says that at the end of the year each player is give his choice of one of his game jerseys and has the option to buy his helmet for $500.00. If they do not buy them they are reconditioned and reused. I ask him if he thought the shell ever got exchanged at the reconditioner, he said he guessed it was possible but unlikely as all identifiers are removed before sending.

Roger

[mvandor]

Jags Fan,
The following is just for your information. I have no opinion on the helmets in question.

I have became friends with Skip Richardson, who is the head of football operations for the Jags. I have had several discussions on how equipment works in Jacksonville. He says the helmets are used all year or till they are damaged and need replacing or reconditioning. They wait and send 5 stripped helmet shell at a time. He also says that at the end of the year each player is give his choice of one of his game jerseys and has the option to buy his helmet for $500.00. If they do not buy them they are reconditioned and reused. I ask him if he thought the shell ever got exchanged at the reconditioner, he said he guessed it was possible but unlikely as all identifiers are removed before sending.

Roger
Buy his helmet for $500??? What cheap management!!! No way the bulk helmet purchases they make work out to anywhere CLOSE to $500/helmet.

[aeneas01]

I have been after a Brunell game used helmet for some time. If anyone has any opinions on this helmet http://cgi.ebay.com/MARK-BRUNELL-AUTO-JAGUARS-1995-1996-GAME-WORN-HELMET_W0QQitemZ260163244112QQihZ016QQcategoryZ868 28QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

versus this one offer by Jim Yackel http://www.jimyackel.com/8BrunnellH.JPG

I would appreciate any comments. I note the interior padding is different, but that is about the only difference I see.

did brunell ever wear an af2? the photos from wire image show him wearing a vsr4 throughout his days in jacksonville...

i will say this - imo ga gets a little excited and very creative when they get their hands on older model lids - for example, they gave me some ridiculous story about a few "game issue" favre helmets they were peddling simply because they were wd1/2 riddell models which is what favre happens to wear - of course these "game issue" helmets ga was selling never came anywhere near favre's melon...

anyway, like other pre-vsr4 helmets, the af2 model can be identified from the exterior by drill holes in the shell which are used to accomodate plastic pegs which hold the interior padding in place. when riddell came out with the vsr4 model they did away the drill holes and pegs and instead used velcro to hold the padding. in the photo below i have circle the drill holes i'm referring to - vsr4 helmets do have these...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/mb.jpg

[aeneas01]

in the photo below i have circle the drill holes i'm referring to - vsr4 helmets do have these...this should read: .... vsr4 helmets do not have these...

[Jags Fan Dan]

This photo from 1995 appears to have the holes as depicted in the photos above:

[Jags Fan Dan]

I am referring to the drill hole in front of the Jaguars mouth, it appears to be there in the photo? I asked to see a scan of the COA, so far no response.

[DrJ]

I can't formulate an opinion based on this, but the helmet for sale appears to have black screws holding the black shock blocker clips on. In the picture you show of Brunell in action and of a picture I also found of him in action, the screws appear to be brass in color. If I'm seeing the pictures accurately, then it wouldn't mean the helmet isn't legit (perhaps the screws were just changed out at some point), but it wouldn't be an exact photo match. Perhaps someone can blow the picture up to confirm if I'm correct. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[cohibasmoker]

Jags Fan Dan: If a Brunell helmet is something you need to have and Jim Yackel has one, what's the issue?

Jim stands behind everything he sells.

Jim

[Jags Fan Dan]

Jags Fan Dan: If a Brunell helmet is something you need to have and Jim Yackel has one, what's the issue?

Jim stands behind everything he sells.

Jim
That is a very valid question, the answer being that I would prefer one with an autograph as it will make a much better display piece in my opinion. However, I would much rather have a 100% legit unsigned one than a questionable signed one, so your point is well taken.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Also, good catch DrJ on the screws being brass colored instead of black. Just another question mark on this item.

[Jags Fan Dan]

I just emailed Joe again asking if I can see a copy of the LOA and also asking about the issue with the screws on the front of the helmet. I'll elt you know if I get a response.

[aeneas01]

This photo from 1995 appears to have the holes as depicted in the photos above:

i don't know.... the small dots appear to be a reflection to me. stadium lights, box windows, some sort of reflection...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/aeneas1/mb2.jpg

[Jags Fan Dan]

Another thing that seems odd in reviewing the photos for the ebay listing, one of the scuffs appears to go through the autograph. Now, how would that happen? Obviously, Mark wasn't wearing an autographed helmet in a game. So that scuff obviously did not happen while the helmet was in use. :confused:

[Jags Fan Dan]

Well, I have looked at a ton of pics, and I simply cannot style match this helmet. By the time Brunell had any helmets with black screws on the front, the number on the back was just gold, not teal and gold like this one. The last year for the rear number like this helmet was 1996. No photos I found from 1996 or 1995 show any helmets with the black screws on the front of the helmet. They are all brass colored. If anyone has any further comments or observations, please post!

[mvandor]

Another thing that seems odd in reviewing the photos for the ebay listing, one of the scuffs appears to go through the autograph. Now, how would that happen? Obviously, Mark wasn't wearing an autographed helmet in a game. So that scuff obviously did not happen while the helmet was in use. :confused:

If the groove of the scratch was deep enough the marker would skip over it. It looks fairly deep to me.

[Jags Fan Dan]

If the groove of the scratch was deep enough the marker would skip over it. It looks fairly deep to me.
Agreed. After looking back over it, that appears to be what happened. Seller has still not responded to any of my emails.

[DrJ]

Just to be clear - I have seen pictures of Brunell with black facemask screws. It just looks like the picture you are showing above has brass screws and if this is the case then it is not an exact photo match. But that's just for that one picture. I wouldn't let the screws themselves scare me away if I were interested in the helmet. Keep looking for photo-matches and maybe this will turn out to be the gem you've been looking for - best of luck as I'm sure the helmet would mean alot to you.:)

[Jags Fan Dan]

Just to be clear - I have seen pictures of Brunell with black facemask screws. It just looks like the picture you are showing above has brass screws and if this is the case then it is not an exact photo match. But that's just for that one picture. I wouldn't let the screws themselves scare me away if I were interested in the helmet. Keep looking for photo-matches and maybe this will turn out to be the gem you've been looking for - best of luck as I'm sure the helmet would mean alot to you.:)
The problem is I have looked into it, studying a bunch of photos and even going through my football cards, and the black screws are a major problem on this helmet, in my findings. The helmet is purported to be from 1995. I have found no photos with Brunell wearing a helmet with black screws in either 1995 or 1996. And as I posted above, after 1996 the numbers on the back of the Jaguars helmets became just plain gold numerals, with no borders or other colors. To style match this helmet, you would have to find a photo from 1995 or 1996 showing Brunell wearing a helmet with black screws, and I simply can't find one. Therefore, at the absolute least, I can only conclude in my unprofessional opinion that if this is a legit game used helmet, it is no longer completely comprised of its original components.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Still no response from the seller regarding the LOA or the issue with the screws on the helmet. I guess I will have to pass on this one.:(

[mvandor]

I have found no photos with Brunell wearing a helmet with black screws in either 1995 or 1996.
Prob is most photos are too far away and black screws would blend into the helmet and not be noticeable.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Prob is most photos are too far away and black screws would blend into the helmet and not be noticeable.
Actually, as the screws go into a white piece, I think the black screws would stand out even from photos taken from a distance. In re-reviewing the photos on getty images from 01-01-1995 to 01-01-1997, I feel that I can safely say there are no photos that depict Brunell in a helmet that appears to have black screws on the front, and I can say with near certainty there are at least 8 games in that time span where the helmet has brass colored screws. That, coupled with the seller's lack of response regarding my questions, makes me feel uneasy about dropping a large sum of cash on this particluar helmet. There is no way I would buy a game used helmet that cannot be style matched.

[Jags Fan Dan]

In 2001 he wore a helmet that at first glance looks similar to the one offered on eBay, as shown below. The problem then becomes that the helmet being offered is an older style and the numeral on the back would look like the ones in the second picture I have attached.

[Jags Fan Dan]

For example here is a photo from December, 1996. It seems that even from a distance, one can safely say these are brass colored screws:

[Jags Fan Dan]

Looks like this helmet made the rounds once before as a 1997-1998 helmet, for which the numeral on the back is entirely incorrect:
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=22689 (http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=22689)