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Eric
09-04-2007, 11:56 AM
Hello everyone

American Memorabilia is selling a Hank Gathers practice jersey. Hank Gathers of course lost his life tragically on the basketball court at Loyola Marymount University.

I sent an email to Tony Giese (which I copied below) and have not heard a response. The youtube clip mentioned can be found here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhuOFkJvPyI

If you pause the clip at :17, you clearly see the jersey AMI says matches what they're selling. The 4s in 44 are closer in the one being sold in the auction.
I'm not saying it's a fake, I'm just saying doesn't appear to be a style match to the clip they reference.

If I get a response from Tony, who has always been a great guy when we have spoken via email, I will post it here.

Wondering what people think.
Eric
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Hi Tony

I was looking at your auction and noticed Lot 167 the game worn Hank Gathers practice jersey. The auction description mentions a style match in a youtube clip

If you pause the clip on the show where gathers is wearing the practice jersey- is the #44 font the same? It doesn't seem to match to me. Who from the 100% Authentic team was the authenticator? I was wondering if they had a different shot which showed the number style.
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=37977 (http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=37977)
Thanks
Eric Stangel

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/pics/37977_lg.jpg

Eric
09-04-2007, 12:21 PM
It looks like the font is the same, but there definitely is an issue with the spacing.

6050

LEGEND33
09-04-2007, 12:29 PM
.....perhaps the jersey is not completely adherent to the mannequin (is visible a "wave" in the fabric of the jersey)
....sorry for the poor english....

ChrisCavalier
09-04-2007, 12:39 PM
.....perhaps the jersey is not completely adherent to the mannequin (is visible a "wave" in the fabric of the jersey)
....sorry for the poor english....
That's an interesting point. Maybe AMI can take another picture to confirm the spacing and make sure the jersey isn't positioned in a way that could create any "waves" affecting the visual display of the spacing.

-Chris

LEGEND33
09-04-2007, 12:44 PM
I am focused on the collar of the jersey..... the one in the youtube pic seems larger than the other jersey.....

Eric
09-04-2007, 12:46 PM
I will write Tony again and see if that is the issue. If anyone has a good relationship with AMI- (perhaps Dave O'Brien could help us here) can you follow up as well?
Eric

LEGEND33
09-04-2007, 12:58 PM
Stop the video at 1:17 01/54
DO NOT APPEAR "LIONS" UNDER THE BASKETBALL !!!!!!!!!

LEGEND33
09-04-2007, 01:14 PM
at 00:15 01/54on youtube
NO "LIONS" on the jersey.

kingjammy24
09-04-2007, 02:21 PM
i concur with legend33 about the neck issue. it's clearly a noticeably different neckline.

the thing that concerns me about relatively generic items like this is that they easily could've been used by anyone. (somehow they're always attributed to the most lucrative possibility. find a 1990 Chicago Bulls warmup suit with no name or numbers? it's gotta be jordans' of course! couldn't possibly be anthony jones who incidentally was the same size as jordan. it's magical how an item veers towards being a $2500 item rather than a $400 item).

re: the gathers jersey. how was it dated to be specifically from the brief time that gathers played for LMU and not worn by some anonymous #44 from before or after gather's tenure? how was it ascertained that it was specifically from the men's basketball team? could it be a JV jersey? or even from the women's team? as it stands, without solid (ie: verifiable) provenance it just seems to me to be a generic #44 LMU practice jersey which could've been used by a number of people.

rudy.

Eric
09-04-2007, 04:48 PM
You are exactly right. In the you tube video AMI says is a style match, at :16 seconds you see the bottom of Hank Gathers' practice jersey.

The word Lions is not on the jersey

Eric
09-04-2007, 05:16 PM
6051

kingjammy24
09-04-2007, 05:50 PM
this is an absolute classic. in trying to prove an item's authenticity, AMI shows a clip that actually disproves the entire thing. did anyone at AMI actually view this clip? if they did, it's difficult to believe they'd include it in the description. "here's a clip that shows Gathers wearing a practice jersey entirely different from the one we're selling".

i nominate this for Best Comedic Performance by an Auction House.

rudy.

Eric
09-04-2007, 07:49 PM
The AMI description also says " The players interviewed after Gathers’ death are also wearing this exact style of jersey."

But in the below photo, do the shoulders and the neck look like the exact style that AMI is selling?

6052

Dave O'Brien, any chance you can use your connections with AMI to get some answers. I'm not sure they're interested in speaking with me.

Eric

Eric
09-06-2007, 08:47 AM
Still no response from AMI and the items remains up for bid. I sent the email to a different address as AMI to see if maybe they could help.

I also asked what the 100% Authentic team saw in the You Tube video that helped them conclude it's a style match.

I will report if I hear back.
Eric

hblakewolf
09-06-2007, 08:58 AM
Eric-
May I suggest you pick up the phone and try to speak directly with Vic, Tony Giese or Kieta?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Eric
09-06-2007, 10:06 AM
Howard-
Sure you can suggest that. I feel like I am going above and beyond what's necessary by emailing a company that has banned me for being associated with this forum and ignored my notes trying to help them from selling something that isn't as it's described.

How much time do I have to put in with a company that doesn't respect me enough to acknolwedge when I'm trying to help them.

My emails to AMI are cordial, they're not accusatory. The absolute least that would be appropriate would be to acknowledge them with any sort of response.

Experience has also shown me that Tony, Vic, and Keita are not interested in hearing from me, or they would have responded to any of my lst 15 or so emails. So really, why should I call them?

Eric

srothw
09-12-2007, 07:57 PM
If the item is still offered for bid I will call the FBI tomorrow or speak to my new neighbor who works for the FBI (different dept but sure he can help facilitate something)

Eric
09-12-2007, 08:10 PM
It is still up for bid. American Memorabilia has ignored my emails.

Since I posted this, it has a 3rd bid and is up to $215.

Maybe your FBI friends could track the 100% Authentic Team and find out where they get their information....

Let us know what they say.

Eric

lund6771
09-12-2007, 09:47 PM
Eric...since this is a discussion forum, I would love to offer my opinion..I believe that AMI will not respond to your e-mails because they are embarressed to be questioned...too many dealers take this forum as confrontational..It's BS!!!!!!

This forum has more collective knowledge than all of the auction houses' authentictors combined!!!....as you said, we are doing the whole community a favor...how do you think the buyer of the fake Brett Favre jersey in AMI's last auction would feel if Victor would call him up and apologize for what had happened, (even if the buyer had no idea that there was something wrong)...Personally, I would feel great dealing with AMI because now I would know that they are looking out for my best interests...did that hapen?...I'm willing to bet not..do I feel that they looked out for my interests from past experiences?..absolutely not

bottom line, in my opinion it's just amatuers trying to run a business...any successful business owner KNOWS that treating your customer right is the most imporetant thing...not just prey on the next sucker

mvandor
09-13-2007, 09:44 AM
Given the irrefutable evidence that the jersey is bogus, there's no honest reason to leave it up. That tells me much about the owners and operators of this auction house.

Eric
09-19-2007, 02:50 PM
The Hank Gathers jersey is up to 5 bids, the description has not been amended and my emails have been ignored.

At what point does it become fraud? I guess it's when they knowingly sell something that is not as described.

Here's hoping it doesn't come to that.
Eric

hblakewolf
09-19-2007, 03:05 PM
Eric-

Fraud is a tough one to prove.

Can you show that your emails were received by AMI? Likewise, what proof do you have that they are aware of your concerns, or those of anyone on the GUU site?

Common sense tells us otherwise, however, issues that must be considered before action can be taken.

Howard wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

sportscentury
09-22-2007, 06:53 PM
Eric (or anyone else),

Any update about this? Are there any GUF readers who are still in contact with AMI?

Reid

Eric
09-22-2007, 07:33 PM
The update is as follows

I made a last effort on the final day of their auction to contact Kieta, Tony Giese and the general info email address of american memorabilia to let them know that their auction description did not match the item being sold.

I did not hear back from them.

Eric

Eric
09-22-2007, 07:35 PM
Oh, and it ended with 12 bids and sold to someone for $509 (not counting the buyer's fee).

I find this to be extremely disappointing.

sportscentury
09-22-2007, 09:59 PM
Oh, and it ended with 12 bids and sold to someone for $509 (not counting the buyer's fee).

I find this to be extremely disappointing.

Eric,

Thanks. It is, without question, disappointing at best. Given that there are forum members who have time and time again insisted that Victor and Tony are truly good guys with the best interests of the hobby in mind, I would have hoped for better. For that matter, I would have thought, at the very least, that these individuals could have helped out with getting a response from Victor and Tony in order to for us to better understand (or perhaps even resolve) this "situation." Perhaps they did try and simply did not contribute to this thread, so I will give them the benefit of the doubt, though my doubt is substantial.

I feel terrible for the poor collector who spent approx. $600 on this item. What a shame.

Thanks for the update and, as always, for your hard work.

Reid

Eric
09-23-2007, 08:12 AM
This was posted in another folder. It still doesn't explain why the auction description was never changed along the way.

Yesterday, 10:12 PM
CollectGU
Senior Member

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 380
Re: Cliff Hagan jersey


From what was explained, they were comfortable with the sources information and how itwas acquired. The yotube was incorrect, and they are aware of that. The winning bidder was supplied with the info from the consignor, and the consignor offered to speak directly to the buyer if they were interested.

Regards,
Dave

mvandor
09-23-2007, 09:08 AM
This was posted in another folder. It still doesn't explain why the auction description was never changed along the way.

Yesterday, 10:12 PM
CollectGU
Senior Member

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 380
Re: Cliff Hagan jersey


From what was explained, they were comfortable with the sources information and how itwas acquired. The yotube was incorrect, and they are aware of that. The winning bidder was supplied with the info from the consignor, and the consignor offered to speak directly to the buyer if they were interested.

Regards,
Dave
This refers to the Hagan jersey does it not?

Eric
09-24-2007, 02:17 PM
No- It was in the Hagan thread but it was about the "Gathers" jersey.

So they didn't change the description and notified the winner who apparently was fine with that. But what about all of the underbidders who drove the price up bidding on something that was not as described.

Wouldn't it have been easier to just change the description to something accurate?

The youtube was incorrect and they were aware of that, but they left it in the description for every potential bidder to see. Hmm.

Any chance I can speak to the consignor?
Eric
ecky3@aol.com